So I write a few unflattering words about one of their Gedolim and these guys get all up in arms! Cursing like sailors and using the most vile, perverted language known to man. Is that how you stand up to what you perceive as Bizayon Talmidei Chachomim, by profaning your mouth and being Machshil other Yidden by making them see this kind of garbage?
Now I have to turn Comment Moderation back on and hope that I can negotiate with these people. That means no instant gratification for a while, you'll need to wait a bit to see your comments. Hopefully we'll iron out our differences and be back to normal shortly. I thank you for your patience and understanding.
I guess Snags can dish it out but they can't take it. Typical.
22 comments:
WE WILL ANNOY YOU
About time.
Point of information: This isn't so much a snag issue as it is a Chaim Berliner issue. Among the yeshivos, Chaim Berlin talmidim are known to have the most vulgar, impolite, nose-up-in-the-air attitude among the main yeshivos. This is the stereotype.
Yehupitz
I was unaware of this stereotype. What's it based on, Slabodka?
No, no. Chas V'Sholom. Slabodka was the ultimate in refined behaviour. I don't know where the CB attitude came from.
My theory is that it is a twisted consequence of Rav Hutner's shitta of "Gaiva d'Kedusha". Obviously the first part of the term is easier to imitate than the second.
Just a quick point.
It is clear from this blog and others like it that many Chabadskers believe that there are still Misnagdim out there who oppose Chabad for nothing more than the fact that they are chassidim and it is the role of Misnagdim to oppose Chassidim.
Allow me to enlighten you. In the outside world, which many Chabadskers never get to see, the fight between misnagdim and chassidim is over. Long over. There is zero tension between the average litvak and Belz, Satmar, Bobov, Vishnitz, Vien, Sadiger, etc.. etc...
There are no misnagdim anymore.
The opposition to Chabad is solely due to Chabads behavior. They are poresh from the rest of Klal Yisroel in innumerable ways. They have their own holidays. Their own 'Teyreh' which they study virtually to the exclusion of all other works. They do not participate in the rituals and communal religious activities of other groups (E.g. Siyum HaShas). They do not show reverence for or respect any Gedolim but their own Rebbes. In every city where they are found they work hard to undermine and shove aside existing frum shuls and organizations. They engage in Messianism. They believe their own movement to be the pinnacle of, and final stage of all of Judaism.
This is why there is firm opposition to Chabad from so many camps. It has ZERO to do with misnagdism. If it did, the Misnagdim would oppose the other Chassidim as well.
Put simply. With its air of superiority, and its 'who needs the rest of klal yisroel' attitude, Chabad has managed to alienate the vast majority of frum Jewry.
And they always blame it on Misnagdism. Its surreal.
Very "quick" point indeed. One with zero thought in it.
Much of the "problems" you mention are recent, so why is there a 60 year battle against Chabad being waged by certain Lithuanian factions?
Of course Belz and Vizhnitz are fine with Snags, they aren't threats, they have no philosophy, and they have no historical gripes with Snags. Easy for you to sit back, diictate policy, including who's in and who's out, and then complain that Lubavitchers don't attend the Siyum HaShas!
Do Snags respect the Rebbe? Would they have allowed the Rebbe to speak at the grand Siyum, or is Moetzes Sherer only?
> It has ZERO to do with misnagdism
I don't think it is 100% correct. You are right - there is no war like before. Many misnagdim had a chance to know more about chasidus and dispel earlier lies and misunderstandings. But there are still those who oppose alive chasidus. Satmar is a bad example - Satmar themselves utilize very misnagdishe (in hungarishe form) ideology. Today misnagdim are scared not of chasidim. They are scared of chasidus which is alive. Not even Chabad so much, because Chabad is ripped apart in chaos and anarchy. But any Chasidus which is alive, and not just a shell.
Most of today so called misnagdim - aren't misnagdim lishmo at all. (Such were always only a minority though, but today they are nearly non existant). There are for example power hungry people like Yirmiya Kohen from Tzfas, who open his mouth to pour dirt on Baal Shem Tov and Rebe Nacmhan miBreslov, because his talmidim left his yeshiva in search for chasidus, after they went to Uman. Such kind of people are today "misnagdim" in most cases.
why didnt u post my comment?
"Much of the "problems" you mention are recent, so why is there a 60 year battle against Chabad being waged by certain Lithuanian factions?"
I am not sure what you refer to, but if I had to guess, this long standing fight is due to the fact that these issues are much older than you think. In fact, virtually all of them are not of recent vintage. Even messianism isnt recent. Rav Shach opposed lubavitch for decades because he forsaw the messianism we have today. He wasnt the only one. I recall being in yeshiva in the 80 where the common topic was Lubavitch messianism. In general though, people werent so against Chabad in those days in spite of that. It was only folks like R Shach who forsaw the present mess who opposed them. My Litvishe cheder attended the Tzivos Hashem parades and virtually every kid was a member of Tzivos Hashem. You would have nothing of the sort today due to Chabads alienation of the rest of Klal Yisroel.
"Of course Belz and Vizhnitz are fine with Snags, they aren't threats, they have no philosophy, and they have no historical gripes with Snags."
You just dont get it. It isnt about philosophy. The ONLY Chassidus which is opposed by 'misnagdim' is Chabadb. No other. In fact Chabad is opposed by many other Chassidim as well. It isnt a misnagid thing, its the elements I numbered above. Most Chabadskers would prefer to ignore this and make believe that its a chassidus thing when it isnt.
"Do Snags respect the Rebbe?"
Many dont. After all, look what kind of a mess he left. Look what a terrible situation he created with his insinuations of being Moshiach and allowing Messianism to run rampant.
This is just another proof of my point. There really arent any other Rebbes who misnagdim dislike. I cant even count how many litvaks walk around these days with Sfas Emes and Nesivos Sholom. They are more popular than most litvishe seforim of similar nature. It isnt the Chassidus, its the behavior.
The REAL problem is Chabad self-denial of the true cause of this alienation from Klal Yisroel. It is self-inflicted. Nobody in the rest of Klal Yisroel buys the excuse that its all about 'snags' because we all know that there arent any more 'snags'. Besides, we are the victims of much of Chabad's misbehavior so we know why we have a problem with them, and it aint about chassidus.
YW
there was no comment from you, unless you used an anonymous.
Misnagdim are scared of Breslov (especially some "roshey yeshivoys") because it attracts mevakshim. And when they are scared - they are opposed.
Rav Shach wasn't opposed to Chabad only. Or more exactly - probably the most - to Chabad. He just didn't like Chasidus at all, being of the last military oriented misnagdim. His reasons? I have no idea. When he worked in chasidic yeshiva in Karlin (can you imagine?) he was strongly opposed that bochurim should go to tish, to the Rebbe etc. No Chabad there, just chasidic life. Why opposition? I'm not really interested to know. This is thing of the past anyway. Rav Shach with his misnagdic ideas was never taken seriously by others.
from Eliachs book you can see that Shach's clique of idelouges like Hamburger etc.. are against the Besht and his talmidim from day 1. nothing changed by them from the Cherem days.so stop all the nonsense about Chabad Only.
"from Eliachs book you can see that Shach's clique of idelouges like Hamburger etc.. are against the Besht and his talmidim from day 1. nothing changed by them from the Cherem days.so stop all the nonsense about Chabad Only"
you dont get it. I am not talking about Rav Shach. He is dead and his wide ranging Misnagdism with him.
I refer to the opposition to Chabad which is found today in all corners of Frum Jewry in spite of the fact that virtually no-one opposes Chassidus in general.
Quit blinding yourselves.
Friend
opposing Yennem is the easiest thing to do. It takes no work on your part. Big Deal. Besides, what you say is untrue.
"Rav Hutner's shitta of "Gaiva d'Kedusha"."
I don't think that is his shita specifically.
Various Chassidim have the same.
Today's Belz comes to mind.
There is general hisnagdus to Chassidus in general that exists to this day, among some, to say that there is no such thing is not true. However, it is at a relatively low level, since other Chassidim are not as aggressive and proselytizing as Lubavitch and Breslov. The aggressiveness and missionizing of Lubavitch, and Breslov to a degree, as well as more problematic aspects of their teachings, does bring out much more opposition, from both snags and other Chassidim.
Snag: Something that's alive - brings opposition. That about it.
"he was strongly opposed that bochurim should go to tish"
As far as I know, he only complained one time when the Bochrim wanted to leave Yeshiva for the entire Yom Tov of Shavuos and he protested.
Again, just some more B.S. from a few bitter Chabatzkers.
Reb Shach was very very very close with all Chasidsher Rebbes in Eretz Yisroel.
FACT.
> Reb Shach was very very very close with all Chasidsher Rebbes in Eretz Yisroel.
Not true. Many didn't want to know him, becuase of his relation to tzadikim.
I just wanted to say that I thought you were doing a great job with the blog. I enjoy coming here every day and reading it. You're doing a great job fighting the good fight, don't ever give up.
Quick comment. When I was in middle school, grades 7-8 even though I was enrolled in a misnagdish yeshive. I was a horrible experience, 2 of the most miserable years of school. Not only did the kids make fun of Lubavitch at my expense, even teachers did it. Ic fact, horrible as it may sound, one very misnagdish teacher, a supposedly respected individual, would make s*x jokes (!) about the Rebbe. It was a horrible experience and I was so glad to get out of there and back into a Lubavitch Yeshiva later on.
Misnagdim are sadly very much around today, under the guise of "what's wrong with Chabad today" when in fact all it's the same hatred and anger rebottled for a new generation. There was a period where Misnagdim , at least real ones were fading, but in the last 5-7 years, there has been a resurgence, possibly because every yeshivshe person is trying to out chumrah the next today. They need a new cause, and the real Misnagdim have once again decided that Chabad makes an easy target.
They are afraid of Chassidus, because it's so owerful and spirutual that once they come near it, they become engrossed in it.
Quick story. A couple years ago I ran into one of the kids from that misnagdishe class. I ran into him at a random Lubavitch Shul one shabbos afternoon. He was in the middle of learning a Sichah. He saw me and smiled, he told me that he ended up having a Lubavitch co-worker at the office and this Lubavitcher would always do in depth tanya (from the Chitas of the day) during lunch. One day the guy invited him to sit in with him and "in the spirit of office civility" he decided to accept.
He told me that ever since then he has loved learning all kinds of Chassidus. He learns Tanya all the time, he loves Maamarim and Sichas of the Rebbe, he even learns Maamarim of the Reshab and MaHarash. He told me he feels very alive inside when he learns it.
He is still a Yeshivishe guy today, he didn't become Lubavitch, it's not that type of story. But he did say he came to respect Lubavitch and understand that there can be differences among frum people and that doesn't need to lead to battles. Then he asked me why I never invited him to learn Tanya when we were in School together.
Anyway, ignore the haters in the comments, you'll be surprised sometimes by which bloggers in our J-blog velt will so quickly turn anti- Lubavitch. They can't help it, it's just become very popular of late amongst the Misnagdish and Yeshivie velt to bash Lubavitch. Just keep doing what you do.
-Chaim Rubin
The Life of Rubin Blog
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