Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Fifty Years Is Not Much

"Der Yid" in 1958/9 was not what it is today, a (ZL) Satmar partisan attack dog. But to see the very same newspaper print a letter from the Rebbe is still nice. This seems to be right around the same time that Chaim Lieberman (not the mazkir) printed his book against Satmar after Der Yid called for a demonstration at the Israeli Consulate in New York. So they were Satmarish back then too. I guess they "overlooked" the "issues" they had.



Shturem

80 comments:

Dipper said...

Going back to your previous P'nimiyos vs. Showing Off during Mitzvah performance, here's something that rivals the Kosover's performance:

http://hamercaz.com/hamercaz/site/mfile.php?id=3546

Did his father make these outward displays of emotion too?

Anonymous said...

זייער אינטערעסאנט

קען זיין אז דער איד האט דעמאלטס נאכנישט באלאנגט פאר סאטמאר, נאר פאר ראזמארין

Hirshel Tzig said...

ווען טאקע איז עס אפיציעל "סאטמאריזירט" געווארען?

Anonymous said...

Tzig,

Funny story. My uncle runs a Chabad shul in the Five Towns in New York. A certain young talmid chochom who has always been kind and generous to my uncle expressed that he is now uncomfortable with Chabad. Why? Because his father showed him YOUR blog!!! That's what he said! "My father showed me several blogs written by those who call themselves Lubavitcher chassidim. One was called, interestingly, theANTItzemach! Be that as it may, these blogs were so full of hatred toward those who do not follow the Chabad way, I feel uncomfortable with Chabad and uncertain of how I should relate to them. . .I have to reassess my feelings to the same. As you know, my family has been very appreciative of the good you have done, is there any way you can explain how Rav Shach can be called "worse than Hitler" by a commenter without any comment--save the censure of only one man who was belittled and continuously mocked by that man?"

It goes on for a little longer. He gave us another $5,000 (his family gave us close to 750k in the past three years) and three volumes of a sefer he wrote on the Rambam. My uncle cannot stop praising this mans seforim and amazing generosity. But he could not really satisfy this talmid chochom's shock.

I know you would probably scoff at this fellow, but, believe me, he is a very ehrliche individual who would never say a bad word about anyone. He just cannot appreciate where our hate comes from.

What can we do?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I really have trouble believing the man would be soooo upset at the blog.

try explaining to the man that a blog can only survive by not censuring comments.

show him what the snags say about the Rebbe, including comparing him to a certain individual that was crucified by the Romans. Maybe that'll change his mind.

SatmarTC said...

anonymous
chabad shul in 5 towns?
your uncle?
"gave us"?

tomorrow the guy goes to another site, say the sokko, what is he going to say?
or to Failedmessiah?
now the guy is going to see your comment

DovidG said...

"show him what the snags say about the Rebbe"

Ya but, were supposidly chassidim, we are the ones that don't play dirty with the misnagdishe. If you wrestle with a muddy person you become muddy. Don't you think chabad.org and other sites do more to help Chabad's reputation than the blog that points out all of the silliness and problems with misnagdim? What happened to that letter from the Alter Rebbe warning the chassidim not to react to the provocations of the misnagdim? And that was when misnagdim were vicious.
Perhaps we are better off when we don't respond in kind.
For example, a neutral pareve yid that reads their propoganda will see it for the rediculous bluff that it is. But if he reads the same stuff by us, he will figure we are both guilty.

Anonymous said...

My uncle explained that you and others on this blog must have been enraged by the impudence of small minded people to write horrible things about the rebbe, kaviyochol, but he said that such a comparison was never made.

I should add that he is a genuine mentch, he was just shocked by the comparison to Hitler. I hope we can continue our relationship with him.

yoshe kalb said...

Wasn't Uriel Zimmer a.h. some kind of editor of the Yid at that time? If so, why are you wondering?

Arthur said...

"is there any way you can explain how Rav Shach can be called "worse than Hitler" by a commenter without any comment--save the censure of only one man who was belittled and continuously mocked by that man?"
I am the one that stands accused of having said that "Rav Shach is worse then hitler"The fact is I never mentioned Hitler nor did I say that Rav Shach is worse then him.The individual that condemned me to burn in H... forever chose to read and interpret something in my post that I never wrote.I suggest that you go back into the archives and check my words and what this so called innocent individual that I "belittled" wrote about me.While you're at it I would suggest that you also read what some individuals wrote about the Rebbe.

Anonymous said...

fifty years ago the rebbe was still a closet zionist ,the money that he received from the zionist forced him out of the closet ,the same thing is happening around the world chabad is gradually becoming a satellite of the non religious congregations,
for comparison seventy eighty years ago the rabbis of most conservative shuls were frimme yidden there children went where the next generation of Lubavitcher will go,except those who will not immunized from being influenced by non Lubavitcher Jews

Hirshel Tzig said...

that's a lot of hogwash you manage to squeeze into those few lines there.

Anonymous said...

the lubavitcher new borns of non frum environments are as close to ehrliche yidishkeit as the mispallim of sixty five nusach ari shuls that existed in the usa and canada eighty years ago , they will go the same way, history repeats itself and that aint hogwash

Hirshel Tzig said...

talk about simplistic! how does one compare today's America to 80 years ago?! today there are more yeshivos than you can shake a stick at! that's the difference between pre and post ww2 America.

Hogwash? you bet.

Anonymous said...

besides i know many lubavitchers who grew up on shlichus and have no affiliation to any group other than chabad and are very erliche yidin

Anonymous said...

Arthur, presumabely, Anonymous the nephew is one and the same schizophrenic individual who has visions of R. Itzele Raitport and is the "baal ha'research".

And, as possesed, he does not stop at anything to get his foolish messages across, stopping at nothing to acheive his goal of the week.

Just plainly ignore him.

Anonymous said...

>>I am the one that stands accused of having said that "Rav Shach is worse then hitler"The fact is I never mentioned Hitler nor did I say that Rav Shach is worse then him.The individual that condemned me to burn in H... forever chose to read and interpret something in my post that I never wrote.I suggest that you go back into the archives and check my words and what this so called innocent individual that I "belittled" wrote about me.While you're at it I would suggest that you also read what some individuals wrote about the Rebbe.

Arthur,

I don't think it is wise for you to deny what it is clearly on the thread--I just saw it. It is wise only to explain why you hate him so much, where you are coming from--which I tried to do. I only hope we can mend the bridges and continue our relationship with others in the community.

Friendly Anonymous said...

dovidg.

not "one" letter, but rather many letters.

I'm sure you will find that the haters on both sides need each other in order to have a "kosher" outlet in which to express their own hate, e.g. haters that say that Lubavitchers are apikorsim require the existence of Lubavitcher "chassidim" who say that people who don't believe in the Rebbe are apikorsim, etc.

Arthur said...

anonymous 9:43 am
I reiterate,I never mentioned the name "hitler" even though some can construe that I was referrig to him which I was not.If you read the rest of the thread and what the first poster wrote about the Rebbe you "can understand where I'm coming from".The issues I mentioned about Rav Shach have been chewed over again on this blog and others ad nauseum.To repeat them would be somewhat redundent since you feel that it would be helpful (I really don't know how since those that defend him insist thst he was the greatest oihaiv Yisroel since Rav Levi Yitzchok Mebardichov).Bikitzur the man was a hater of all who disagreed with his narrow minded perceptions and expressed his hatred in writing in his Michtovim Umaimorim which are open for all to see. Above all the venom that he spewed against the Rebbi and Lubavitch is the prime example of the hatred that he espoused.
I don"t want to go into details as this has been discussed a number of times on this blog as well as elseware.Enough said.

Friendly anonymous said...

Though we no longer have to worry about "hay tigro letzinro dedichko damye..."

Anonymous said...

Arthur,

I read the thread pretty carefully, your intent is clear and patent. It does not do well to deny what you wrote. Be that as it may, it was explained that wording of this kind is a result of his prosecution against the Rebbe and chassidus. The rest of his comments in maamorim against Adin Steinsaltz, Rabbi Goren and even RYBS are so mainstream in charedi society that its difficult for them to enter into dialogue with anyone who sees things from a non-litvish-charedi perspective.

in BP said...

''show him what the snags say about the Rebbe, including comparing him to a certain individual that was crucified by the Romans. Maybe that'll change his mind.''

P#%&l,
What would that prove?
That both Lubabs and some infantile snags are immature?

You again prove what a tipesh and Hungarian naar you are.
Good luck in growing brains.

inBP said...

Arthur,
I've read a lot of your comments and they are usually childish.I was surprised to see you claim that you are actually older than Kolko!
Tell me, do you have nothing better to do with your time than pick fights with UOJ,lose miserably, and come here to cry about it?
You remind me of kitta alef in Chaider with the baby Tzig.

inBP said...

Lastly, Tziggaleh,
Will you have anything to say about the big 'kiddush Lubavitch' and chillul Hashem wrought upon Orthodox Jews by your fellow Lubobs out in Iowa?
Your silence proves once more that all you are is a guy who looks for faults by others but sees none of his and fellow brianwashed fools.

inBP said...

I am obviously referring to todays arrest in Postville a culmination of stupidity and denial going back a couple of years.
You and all your fellow lubobs were busy defending them, not realizing that only in your fantasy land if you say "The Rebbe is alive" does it make him alive.The same thing applies to your ilks cries of "the goverment is wrong, the goverment is anti semitic" and the rest of your dumb apologetics.
A fine family has ruined themselves and others by not listening to anyone with a "trop seychel"
Idiots like Tzig did not stop the first crazy Meshichists 14 years ago and today the messianics run the show and Lubob is in der erd.

Hirshel Tzig said...

man, how BP has changed. We used to have decent people there. Oh well. I'm glad I got out.


You're the scum of the earth, and I apologize to scum for associating you with them.

inBP said...

Why am I scum?
Cuz, I disagree with you?
You Lubobs have wrought some of the biggest mockery on frim yidden and you call me names??

inBP said...

On second thoughts....
Being called scum by you is actually a badge of honour

Hirshel Tzig said...

you're scum because of your rejoicing at their troubles. That's lower than low. Something tells me that were they Vien or Nitra or Satmar you'd find a million and a half excuses for much worse crimes than illegals etc.

Mockery comes from section 8 fraud, sexual misconduct and outright stealing. The only reason this got into the news is because of their line of work and their affiliation with Lubavitch.

That and the fact that they stood up to those who shouldn't be stoof up to (according to themselves) unions and PETA. But I don't expect a man with a third rate education like yourself to get that.

Arthur said...

inbp
Apparently you really must be a blithering moron which is exemplified by your lack of reading ability.I never picked a fight with UOJ.In fact our discussion was quite cordial.He has his opinions about Agri which he is entitled to and I have mine.The same is true with his current views on Lubavitch.Granted he is an excellent word spinner and is a better writer then I am and so is Tzig.The question however is how does a idiot like you fit into the picture?I suggest you get back to kindergarten to hone your reading and writing skills.

Arthur said...

To 11:49:00 AM
I don't want to belabor the issue or split hairs but again I never mentioned Hitler in my "notorious" post.I did use the term "reichs fuhrer" which was a generic term to describe political leaders throughout modern German history.In fact Count Otto Von Bismark,the unifier of the various Germanic states in the the latter days of the nineteenth century, was also referred to as "reichs fuhrer"

shimon s said...

"In fact Count Otto Von Bismark,the unifier of the various Germanic states in the the latter days of the nineteenth century, was also referred to as "reichs fuhrer"

What a nonsense! There was no "reichs fuhrer"!

Führer was a title that Adolf gave to himself in the Enabling Act of 1933(Ermächtigungsgesetz) ! You are confusing it with Reichskanzler.

It was either Führer und Reichskanzler (Leader and Chancellor of the [Third] Reich 1934-1942) or Führer des Großdeutschen Reichs ('Leader of the Greater German Nation' 1942-1945).

Adolf was the only one called by this title. Even his successor admiral Dönitz didn't hold this title during the few days of his reign in 1945.

SatmarTC said...

inbp

if u go to any gas station u and everyone in Inmigration knows that illegal ppl are working there

why they don't close every gas station?

American economy neeeds these workers, and this is why inmigration does not go to close the gas stations, and carwashes, etc

I am not justifying Agri with this, but this is soemthing not so grave as u want to describe

this is something that comes as a result of hate or jealousy against this Family

As Jews , we should daven for the good of this family, that brought good quality abd affordable kosher meat to many Ydden, and gave work like to more than 300 Ydden.
they also gave lots of tzedaka to many Jewish Institutions

inBP said...

Satmartc
Rubashingate is a repeat of the Square scandal where a 'chuchem be'enei atsmoi' brought disgrace, prison sentences and a ten million $ fine upon them.
מעהן דארף האבען א טראפ שכל .
If there were any chachumim in Lubob they'd tell these fellas to cop a deal a long time ago and clean up their act, "stead they are in bad shape.
Farshteistee?

Anonymous said...

עת לחשןת וואס מיינס דו דען אז זיי ןןעלען קענען געןןונען דר רעגירונג

Hirshel Tzig said...

more drivel from BP

1) Skver was fraud because it took gov't money for services it didn't provide. I see no such story here.

2) Skver had all the leaders (וד"ל) involved, and some of the holy people were a hair's breadth from jail.

so please, stop with the self-righteous baloney.

btw, do you have a polish cleaning lady every week? do you report her to the INS? do you deduct taxes for her?

Meyer said...

all the arguing and bashing will get you nowhere. its like banging your head on the wall.it only hurts yourself. thank you tzig for defending lubavitch even if it is to a blithering pack of idiots.

Hirshel Tzig said...

you're very welcome.

meyer said...

why doesnt rubashkin have a decent pr firm.

Arthur said...

To Shimon S
I stand corrected.

inBP said...

Tzig
Very respectfully now:"You see no evil" because you don't want to and cannot because of your negios.
I was not even going into the רובאשקין'ס עבירות, nobody is accusing them of ג' חמורות (neither was סקווער)They are being accused of being שוטים פארפירט דורך שוטים.When someone does שיגעץ שטיק, they have to know when to give in quietly
(like some emmesh chachumim did during the skver mayseh, and got out very cheap).People like you, the typical primitive frimer who does not realize that this is not another silly fight between two hoiffen, know to give the richtiggeh eitza and tell them to make a deal.
Unfortunately, we have this result today.
Sometimes the biggest avero is to be a shoiteh and give bad advice

Anonymous said...

To Shimon S
I stand corrected.

Arthur,

As I wrote, your message is very, very clear. Its not like I don't understand where your hate is coming from, believe me. But that kind of language is hurting us.

Anonymous said...

IF THIS COUNTRY IS SO ANTI SEMITIC and starting up with the Rubashkins and all the other yidden, why don't you organize protests?
I guess you all know that you are full of it

Anonymous said...

I don't know if the story about 5towns Chabad losing money because of the hate that Lubavitch have for others been unconvered here is true, but I sure hope it's true.
Giving money to Lubavitch is not a worthy cause.They promote ideas that Orthodoxy is not comfortable with, in addition they themselves never,ever donate to other Orthodox institutions.
In future if approached by a Lubavitcher, send him to quite a long list of very well to do Lubavitchers.The same applies to another rebbe(from 'round the corner from Hirshel) who milks the 5towns and we see nothing back.

If the story is true, it fits a very fine Y.U grad who learns most of the time and is brilliant.Starts with a B.He is a very ehrliche guy and maybe Lubavitch managed to pull the wool over his eyes

Anonymous said...

If I've already commented about Chabad, I'd also like to challenge this whole notion of being mekarev bordeline personalities.Do we need to be saddled by people who need special care.Do we have the tools to deal with them?Unfortunately a great deal of Chabads kiruv is towards people with mental issues.They bring them in, than dump them on the community.That someone else has to take care of the mess.
How about those singles they've mekareved, but won't help them get married?.
Time we took a long hard look at Lubavitch.I wish they'd be uninvited from half the places they cause trouble in

Arthur said...

anonymous 5:58:00 PM
You sure are wishing for many things.Do you think that your fairy godmother will fulfill all your wishes? May I make a suggestion for another wish? Az der aibeshter zol dir tzu shiken ah bissel saichel so that you will stop spouting the narishkeiten that you wrote on your last two posts.You really should really take a "good look" at yourself instead of others that are out there in the boondocks "mekariving" Yidden back to Yidishkiet.Thats what I "wish".

SatmarTC said...

Anony

Many ppl with mental isssues? well, in gral, they come by themselves,what r they going to do? to throw them out?
do u think that is better to send them to Jamaica,to Tranquility Bay?

burech said...

Satmar
I know they didn't teach you 'eynglish' in chaider,still I can't figure out what you are trying to say.
When posting take care to be clear.
Thank you

SatmarTC said...

Burech

I was responding to anonymous (2 posts before)
he said "Unfortunately a great deal of Chabads kiruv is towards people with mental issues.They bring them in, than dump them on the community.That someone else has to take care of the mess."


Many people with mental isssues? well, in general, they come by themselves,what are they going to do? to throw them out?
do you think that is better to send them to Jamaica,to Tranquility Bay?(this is the place that RAS agreed to send Isaac Hersh )

thank you
I need to take a crash Eynglish Blog course

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

“I'd also like to challenge this whole notion of being mekarev borderline personalities. Do we need to be saddled by people who need special care? Do we have the tools to deal with them? Unfortunately a great deal of Chabads kiruv is towards people with mental issues. They bring them in, than dump them on the community. That someone else has to take care of the mess.”

This is actually a serious issue, not just with Chabad, but all Kiruv, and in fact (Lehavdil) with non Jewish groups too. People who are slightly nuts, or even just socially awkward are the MOST likely to respond to any Kiruv event/activity. Number of reasons why, but the simplest being they are finally in a position of being wanted, and aren’t very busy/don’t have a full social schedule. That also leads them to be less happy with there life’s, and more receptive to a kiruv message. From a halachic point of view, a geek/werido is no less commanded in mitzvos than anyone else, so I am not entirely sure what Anonymous of Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:58:00 PM would have us do.

Anonymous said...

>>This is actually a serious issue, not just with Chabad, but all Kiruv, and in fact (Lehavdil) with non Jewish groups too. People who are slightly nuts, or even just socially awkward are the MOST likely to respond to any Kiruv event/activity. Number of reasons why, but the simplest being they are finally in a position of being wanted, and aren’t very busy/don’t have a full social schedule. That also leads them to be less happy with there life’s, and more receptive to a kiruv message. From a halachic point of view, a geek/werido is no less commanded in mitzvos than anyone else, so I am not entirely sure what Anonymous of Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:58:00 PM would have us do.

As someone who lived in Passaic for several years, I can confirm that a great amount of balei teshuva who live there are very odd. BTs have bekishes, beards, and long peyos, but they cannot read hebrew, nor even properly pronounce birhcas haTorah, even though they have been frum for decades. BTU, probably the largest shul in Passaic, has a longstanding rule that only those who can read can daven for the amud. This shows a failure of the kiruv movement to successfully teach Jews the absolute basics. But that's another issue: the characters are a bit odd, and, frankly, some of the more balanced chevra in Passaic are only there because they cannot afford to live in New York, they were misled into thinking Passaic is a warm community (its not), and/or they prefer its prozimity to New York City.

Anonymous said...

Arthur,

I don't see what benefit you are trying to gain by writing posts like your last or the highly controversial. You represent us. Think before you write.

SatmarTC said...

"As someone who lived in Passaic for several years, I can confirm that a great amount of balei teshuva who live there are very odd. BTs have bekishes, beards, and long peyos, but they cannot read hebrew, nor even properly pronounce birhcas haTorah, even though they have been frum for decades. BTU, probably the largest shul in Passaic, has a longstanding rule that only those who can read can daven for the amud. This shows a failure of the kiruv movement to successfully teach Jews the absolute basics. But that's another issue: the characters are a bit odd, and, frankly, some of the more balanced chevra in Passaic are only there because they cannot afford to live in New York, they were misled into thinking Passaic is a warm community (its not), and/or they prefer its prozimity to New York City.

Friday, October 31, 2008 9:09:00 AM"


Many BTs they do not know how to pronounce the Hebrew words,the reason is B/C they did not learn since they were kids
Go, and learn japanese, French or Spanish, and you are going to see how you pronounce the words
I know many very smarts Bts that they cannot pronounce Hebrew words correctly, some of them thay made a Syum Hashas.

Anonymous said...

>>Many BTs they do not know how to pronounce the Hebrew words,the reason is B/C they did not learn since they were kids

If they have been frum for thirty years but cannot pronounce hebrew, read hebrew or aramaic--how exactly are they frum? Second, if they cannot read, their siyum "on Shas" is not that significant.

PS I learned French. My pronounciation is quite nice. I would imagine your analgy would imply that one who is adept with languages would be more successful in reading. This is not correct. They aren't. Second, and far more important, Loshon Kodesh is NOT a foreign language--it is one we use every day, three times a day--and one which an observant Jew of any color uses in his learning--DAILY. The entire purpose of kiruv is that this should NOT be foreign. If you cannot understand or read BASIC Jewish texts after thirty years of being frum.

Anonymous said...

Satmartc,

Thanks for defending us BT's. Not to cause further division, but I have seen quite a few ffb's with mental issues as well. I think that FFB's have been socialized more to blend in and conform so it is less obvious. Let us focus on the positive. It just shows that the frum community is very accepting.

SatmarTC said...

lol

I know many FFB that they speak a very funny Hebrew ,including some of my kids
and many Bts and not yet Frum Ydden hat they speak much better Hebrew than FFbs (some of my own kids)

Anonymous said...

>>I know many FFB that they speak a very funny Hebrew ,including some of my kids
and many Bts and not yet Frum Ydden hat they speak much better Hebrew than FFbs (some of my own kids)

As touching and optimistic as your findings are, they bear no relation whatsoever to my several years of living in a BT dominated community. Its possible that Passaic is not representative of the BT community at large and that only those who live there demonstrate a profound inadequacy of the BT system and/or the collective talents of the BT residents of the Passaic community. But I doubt that is the case.

BTW, Satmar kids talking funny in English or in Hebrew is a different story.

Chabad and Stamar are one. said...

Reb Mendel Vechter once said that what clicnched his decision to to leave satmar for Chabad was when he realized that the Rebbe was more anti-Zionist than the Satmarer Rebbe

Avremel said...

The Nikolsbereger rebbe has said that he was a messenger many time between the Lubavitcher And Satmar Rebbeim. This was going on even during their supposed wars.

SatmarTC said...

We used to have some differnces with Chabadsters, but never with the LUb Rebbe,aderaba
More, in Argentina, even at hard times, Lubs used to eat only from our schita
Now , things are different, I have many friends very close to chabadsters

Anonymous said...

Do you measure frumkeit by whether a person reads the hebrew language? you may measure whether someone is German if he speaks German well but Judiasm is not just another culture. You have totally lost the point anonymous. I feel bad that yiddishkeit is so shallow for you. I think that learning Chassidus may help!

inBp said...

Unfortunately as has been reported on Vosiznaeis it seems that Rubashkin and Agri are in געפערליכע צרות.I know that the Tzig is going to claim that I am happy at a fellow yid tsores. Nothing is further than the truth. Besides for having a financial interest in Rubashkin not going under since family is involved, the etsem zach that decent people should go through this brings עגמת נפש.
If not for fools like Tzig and fellow partisan Lubavitchers we could have gotten through this.I'd better stop here since I'm burning with anger. Me it's nogea parnusseh, for others it's nogea some stupid "kovod Lubavitch" because of this gaaveh and stupidity people will lose millions.אייבישטער ראטעווע פון אזוי גערופענע "אנ"ש"

EDITED (by HT) FOR PROFANITY AND GENERAL VULGAR TONE

Joe in Australia said...

My wife and I will never forget the kindness that people in Passaic showed us. It's too misnagdish for me, but it seemed like a fine place to live. I hope that readers take its anonymous critic's words with a pinch of salt.

inBP said...

The Goat will still not address the Rubashkin issue.
Why?
The wonderful 'eitzos' of people like the Goat and his ilk have caused this business to seize up.We don't know what''ll happen with the owners either.vedai lameyvin
But the Goat and his fellow riff-Raff are in the fools paradise of denial not prepared to realize that they can scream from today till eternity but it won't change reality.
Such an infantile Lubob tactic.

Censor this as much as you want but the truth you can't change

Hirshel Tzig said...

it seems like "InBP" once ate a piece of bad Rubashkin's chicken...

what are you so worked up about? what am I supposed to say? am I supposed to condemn a wonderful family like the Rubashkin's because you want me to?

stop hakking a chynik.

Hirshel Tzig said...

InBP

your comments need to be edited, they're an embarrassment to every living Jew. When I get around to them I'll post the edited version.

A word to the wise (?) stop using "ilk," it gets on my nerves. try a thesaurus and look for a similar word.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"My wife and I will never forget the kindness that people in Passaic showed us. It's too misnagdish for me, but it seemed like a fine place to live. I hope that readers take its anonymous critic's words with a pinch of salt."

Just to clarify that what I posted and what anonymous wrote about Passaic are two seperate issues

Anonymous said...

I find Passaic to be, as a whole, extremely unfriendly and snobbish. I rue the day I moved here.

Chaim Berlin tragedy said...

This is not in my normal range of issues, but like many people I have been following the Rubashkin story lately, and it's implications are frightening for all Orthodox Jews as well as for Judaism in America.

One thing is for sure, it is one of the biggest cases of redifa of yidden in a long time.

It is also an updated politically correct case of alilas damim (a literal blood libel), only in the case it is not Beilis who is being falsely accused of killing an innocent Christian boy, but the Rubashkins, and by implication they are implicating all shomrei Torah umitzvos, that now it is the PETA types who are accusing the shochtim and buthcers of Rubashkin (all of whom are yerei shomayim and mumchim) of "cruelty" to animals by the way they allegedly mistreat and "kill" them and are shedding the blood of the animals. (Nowadays when Muslims kill out Christians like in the Sudam Civil War and Darfur the world does not scream or arrest people).

Then you have the labor union crowd that is acting holier than thou, when everyone knows that unions, especially ones in the meat packing industry, are totally corrupt and completely influenced by the mobs that control them inside out. These people decided to pick on Rubashkin because Rubashkin did not want to hire union workers (is that a "crime"?) and so Rubashkin as Hasidic Orthodox Jews were easy targets to slander, to cite them for violations for hiring and using illegals, when all of America is being serviced and run by illegals. The cops and the feds are free to take a ride down any street in America and stop at any store, gas station, construction site, lawn service, you name it, and you will see all those Hispanics and sometimes Asians (the days of Italian and Greek workers are long, long gone) and you can arrest a few million people in a week. Notice how they did not pick on the agricultural industry in California where the unions actually protect the illegals and try to bring more in from Mexico and central America where millions of them work without any permits and they provide them with benefits too.

Then you have the antisemities of Iowa and the midwest who just hate the Jews in their midst and like Nazis would love to make Iowa "Juderein" even if it will hurt them, they will cut of their noses to spite their own faces.

The reported incidents of misbehavior by members of the Chabad communuty in Postville, mostly some unruly youngsters not staff of Rubashkin, did not help matters. Iowa and being out of town is not like hanging out in Crown Heights. But honestly, that is more than off-set by the excellenet record of good and harmonious relations with the genral public and with public and government officials on all levels that all Chabad shluchim, their wives and familes have with people in thousands of places in America and the world.

So all in all, it is a big tragedy, that a family business like Rubashkin, that has been providng excellent meat products at very affordable prices should be put through this.

The Young Israel and OU sent a rabbinic delegation that found everything to be in order in the kashrus department. Unfortunately, by the time the delegation of rabbis got there and put in their good word it was too late because the conglomeration of anti-Rubashkin (read: anti-Yiddiskeit) had already planned and made their moves and Rubashkin has now been hit from too many direction. People need Rubashkin's meat products, and the comptativenss that itrbrings to the meat market, more than ever

Let us hope it will have nitzchiyos for all the good it has done for Klal Yisroel and will have techiyas hameisim for every blow that knocked it down, and that they will be able to continue and be of service to all Jews in the ways of chesed that they are famous for.

Anonymous said...

>>Do you measure frumkeit by whether a person reads the hebrew language?

If you don't know anything and can never learn about it, yes, your Jewishness is quite meaningless. You have never really started.

>>you may measure whether someone is German if he speaks German well but Judiasm is not just another culture.

I never said it is.

>>You have totally lost the point anonymous. I feel bad that yiddishkeit is so shallow for you. I think that learning Chassidus may help!

I feel bad that you cannot make a legitamite point. Frankly, you are not addressing my point. Why don't you actually learn? Besides, they can't learn chassidus either--if that is all Judaism means to you--because THEY CAN'T READ.

Joe from Australia:

Only someone as far away as Australia would look at Passaic as a nice place. The other commenter who pointed out the unfridneliness and snobishness (and they are poor) is more on point--probably because he actually lives there.

inBP said...

"A word to the wise (?) stop using "ilk," it gets on my nerves. try a thesaurus and look for a similar word."

For once you have correctly assessed my meaning when I write "ilk". though ilk can be quite parev, here it's meant to show the utter contempt I hold you and your fellow Lubob.Many words come to mind:Mee'us,eccledig, but what I really think of you is SWINE, though I would not have used that description had you not uncanily picked up exactly what I meant.
You are swine,Lubob are swine.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Gotcha!

now we know how you REALLY feel. It has nothing to do with Rubashkin, you could care less what happens. You're OVERJOYED at their downfall.

I smoked you out, punk.

Now go choke on a MealMart salami.

inBP said...

Actually I could and do care about Rubashkin,firstly I have a financial interest in their well being, in addition they are yidden,as low as I generally consider Lubob.
BUT, the real problem is that unfortunately the 'velt' does not know the difference between Lubob and Orthodox and we are all considerd conniving bastards.This could easily have been avoided if not for swine like yourself who eitszed Rubashkin to be 'kleeg' and not back off.
Just like the guy around the block, who gave us all a black eye and paid $10.mill.
Btw, while we are at it could you tell the lubob "rabbi" from mill hill to stop sticking his nose into American politics just to get himself a headline.

Hirshel Tzig said...

I also have a "financial Interest" in Rubashkin. If they go under I pay more for chicken and meat when the money-grubbers at Alle and others jack up their prices. That's my "financial interest," and I'll bet the house that that's yours, too.

Now go away.

inBP said...

"If they go under"
Quite the optimist, eh?

Hirshel Tzig said...

quite.

I agree with you about Shochet, by the way.

InBP said...

I'm getting worried if you agree with me about the headline grabber. EDITED.

inBP said...

The funny thing is that try as bad as you can to not address the Rubashkin issue, with your regular lubob apologetics and denial of reality, even a partisan like you realized that this is not going anywhere.
Apparently the lubob chochmo of "it didn't happen" ain't working lately.

inBP said...

In a sign of how deluded the Lubob are they actually posted pics of r'sholom Rubashkin seudas hodoyo/farby. What are the celebrating??
One thing is for sure, though I abhor and despise Lubob, they are better off stuck with a person like myself who wishes them no ill and helps them out, than "gomlai chasodim" like you and your ilk.With friends like you the Rubashkins are doomed!
I personally do not bear them ill well at all.(I do wish they'd get some more seychel, though)

Hirshel Tzig said...

I'd be surprised if you had a real job.

But thanks for your two sense.

Now, PLEASE, go away.