Thursday, April 7, 2011

Cool Aish






Never you mind. They're getting plenty of flack from the black hatters who see this as a terrible affront to Moshe Rabbeinu, Pesach, kabbolas HaTorah and anything Jewish. Most frum people have a hard time swallowing this kind of new-age hip way of communicating an age-old message to the Facebook generation. The fact that Moses used email and used words like "cool" and "awesome" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to lots of people. I include myself in that group, although I understand that it has to be done if you wanna attract young people to services and lectures. In the case of Aish that kind of talk usually stays with the "kiruv" crowd, which is miniscule. Chabad, however, has crossed that line and make one big cholent out of it. Meaning all Chabad literature and media now caters to the "lowest common denominator," (for lack of a better term, no harm intended) and all of us now need to read about "Bereishit", and "Mitzvot" and "Shabbat", even when using a Hebrew siddur with only English-language instructions (not translation) in a place like Monsey. I guess that's so when they go on shlichus (or is it "shlichoot?") they should know how to say Shabbat and not Chas VeSholom - Shabbis. That "galut" talk is too old-fashioned for the Twitterers, I guess. One thing I will say for this ad: It is VERY well done.

92 comments:

Anonymous said...

it is cool

yehupitz said...

It might turn many chareidim off, but I can tell you from the number of forwards from non-frum people I have received that it is making a positive impression on them.

Anonymous said...

i think watching that vid just made my IQ go down by about 20 points.

azi said...

Bereishit, Mitzvot, and Shabbat is catering to the "lowest common denominator?"

I think that statement would be like fingernails on a chalkboard to Moshe Rabenu. Probably even more to Ahron Hacohen.

Gimpel said...

BS never did a thing for Judaism. Do the right thing, teach pure Torah and show them the mitzvos with their inherent beauty and you will be successful eventually. Quick fixes are easy to undo. I do not believe any lasting change will be effected by such shtick. Use the koach wasted on this to say a shiur on chumash to someone who does not know much chumash and you are an instant winner.

grainom said...

azi, if you were sephardic, maybe, but not for the rest of us. go in to your local satmar shul and read the sign that says you can only daven farrin amud with a gartel and a ashkenazy havara unless you are sefardik, in which case please feel free...

Anonymous said...

Wow! Fantastic!Now that they learned marketing from us ,Maybe Aish and the "Kiruv Movement" will take care of Sedorim and such so we can focus exclusively on Hafatzos Hamayonus" while they take care of general Yahudus.Kol Hakovoid Aish,your doing Nosei Doiraynu's Shlichus.

bobov chusid said...

once again to put this in the form as if its one big joke, the reason of this according to belz rebbi that it downgrades to decease of what the dor vmidmor was like. but maybe the belz point of view is because of its root back to a very small village where not much action went on, unlike bobov, lublin ect, that had more of a bigger going on.

think said...

Its a knock-off of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkHNNPM7pJA

Mottel said...

Tzig: The Hebrew Siddur with the English instructions is meant for mikuravin that have learned to read (and thus daven in) lashon hakodesh - but don't understand it.

The goal is to be consistent - why should the transliteration change? It's meant to be accessible to the entire population - and for better or for worse Ivris is out in pronunciation.

Zev said...

Cute!

מענדל said...

הירשעלע
דאס איז דיין פראבלעם? אויב אזוי מאכסטו גוט. נוץ א סידור מיט די הוראות אויף לה"ק ושלום על ישראל.
מענדל

Anonymous said...

Hirshel -
Look how desperate the haters are.. Nebich, chap a lebb'n efshar ye (or that's too much)?

http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=26586

Joe said...

Way, way behind the times.
Chabad does these high tech videos all the time but there's some point to it.
Look at the difference: http://chabadtube.com/jabmedia.html
This video is just showing off and frankly, lacking in meaning.
Actually, if I recall correctly, Tzivos Hashem magazine does similar things to teach KIDS about a yomtov using all types of computer programs, gmail etc.
And here's what an eight grader did: http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=13603&hl=BAM

Anonymous said...

Who is this Ak so called rav from Argentina, that sends $5000 for importing hate to Ertetz Hakedosha,
He probably expects a good obituary in the Israeli Yated when he will croak.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel, what is this - Misnaged Fridays? How can you call yourself a Chassid of the Rebbe when you mock his pre-eminent initiative: Haatzos hamaynos! The greatest % of Jews pronounse words this way and it was therefore chosen. If they call it Shabbat, whats the big deal?? Really...whats the big deal? Shabbat is a perfectly acceptable and valid pronunciation. It may not be yours, but its theirs. So as long as youre a Lubavitcher, deal with it. Or better yet, go out and meet a fellow (non observant) Jew and talk to him/her a bit. You may learn a bit!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I doubt that much thought went into this. The Council of Chabad Sages had a meeting and decided this?

Most Jews don't pronounce anything Jewish. They don't know the words to begin with.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 1:24

I'm not quite sure what "misnaged" has to do with anything...

Fed Up in Peoria said...

Where are they getting flack?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

not in Peoria, that's for sure.

where it counts, on internet forums and such.................

the Ball Game is over... said...

Let's face it -the whole BT thing is a bunch of baloney. The cost in Habad has been horrific in the transplantation of goyishe ideas into a chassidishe kreiz. Nothing to discuss-everyone knows this to be true. The Movement sold itself out for abisel narishkeit and the intermarriage rate is still 50-60%in the U.S.A.!The Rebbe was very smart in some areas but simply didn't see the cost internally of introducing the foreign BT ideaology to Lubavitch.What do you think the ziknei hahassidim really thought of the whole BT mishugayes? I bet you know!The local Oholei Torah branch here has kids who for the most part can't speak Yiddish and are completely Americanized. So Sad!You want to be a BT? Go to boot camp-learn Yiddish and the ways of the alter heim-and then join Habad.otherwise go to YU and be a good MO.

Anonymous said...

Ball Game
who are you to decide on Yidishe Neshomas.
Maybe the whole modernity was worth to for 1 family to become BT,
who the hell are you to rate the price of a neshoma,
Did Reb Nisen tell you differently, that he has a different price for a soul.

Anonymous said...

Ball ame
"The local Oholei Torah branch here has kids who for the most part can't speak Yiddish and are completely Americanized. So Sad!"
whay is it sad? since when is Yiddish a chaftze DeKedusha, its geshmak maybe, loshen hora and gossip has a much better flavor in Yiddish but not more.90% of klal yisroel shomrie torah umitzvas in Israel and in chutz don't talk Yiddish today.
All the Jews that were assimilated and all big time Apikorsim in prewar US and Europe spoke Yiddish still,They had in every town a Yiddish Theater and Newspaper with Kefira and Nivul Peh, So it did not help at all, what is all this Yiddish hangover. Which shprach did Issac Bashevis use for his Menuvelois?

azi said...

is this bobov chusid guy a joke? every comment he makes is about the size of bobov and belz

מענדל said...

הירשעלע
דאס וואס דו שרייבסט אז מערסטע אידן ווייסן ניט קיין חילוק צווישן שאבעס און שאבאט איז במחכ"ת ניט פונקט אזוי. די וואס האבן קיינמאל ניט געלערנט ביסטו גערעכט ווייסן ניט אבער די וואס האבן "געלערנט" ביי די קאנסערוואטיווע און רעפארמער ווייסן די ספרדישע הברה.
אינטרעסאנט איז צו וויסן ווען זיי האבן געביטן די הברה. די עלטערע רעדן מיט א אשכנזישע הברה און די אינגערע מיט א "ספרדישע". ובמילא ווערן די עלטערט צעפלאנטערט ווייל זיי דארפן זיך צופאסן וד"ל.
א גוטע וואך,
מענדל

Anonymous said...

So Sad!You want to be a BT? Go to boot camp-learn Yiddish and the ways of the alter heim-and then join Habad
wow. i'm in stunned fasciantion. it's a shod you weren't around by y'tzias miotzrayim. you could've done kiruv on Moshe rabeinu

Anonymous said...

Rav Hutner told the editorial staff at the now folded Jewish Observer,that the graphics of the magazine has to be as sophisticated as any magazine that his on the edge of society.It was printed in a letter of the former staff.

The Ball game is Over said...

To all The critics: Don't tell me baloney about Yiddish writers. The alter rebbe spoke Yiddish or Russian? The Freirdiker Rebbe spoke Yiddish or Polish in Warsaw? The Rebbe in America held his farbreingenishn in English or Yiddish? What about the long siche of The Rebbe about the importance of Yiddish in our times? When the rebbe heard that they were teaching in ivrit in Israel he was surprised and disturbed. Does any other Hassidic group speak English among themselves? Who-Bobov? Belz? Satmer? Vizhnitz? Some Gerer speak Ivrit -but English? Give up the unshtel-Lubavitch is really no longer Hassidic in culture-and it was very much so just a generation ago. If it's fine to speak English why did the Gedolim-Litvish and Hassidic fight with all their might against requiring Rabbis to speak Russian or Polish? Answer me this-did any Rov in pre-war Europe give a droshoh in Polish,Russian,or Ukrainian? If he did, he'd be looking for a shtele very soon.I'm not diminishing the value of a BT-but if you want to be an Americaner, then please go to YU-they are plenty frum there,too.You think there is any "taam" to the new American Lubavitch?It's embarrasing to bring in a heimisher yid to a Chabad minyan.It just is.Vd"L

the ball game is over said...

Anony 9:11 Since you bring up Moshe Rabeinu would it also surprise you that he didn't wear a large ,supersized Borsalino with the kneitchen just in the right place?Did he wear his Arrow shirt tucked out?Did he say a maamer bei shale shudes in English?Hazal say shelo shinu es leshonam-so he clearly didn't speak Egyptian to his own people.

azi said...

@The Ball game is Over -

that's complete lunacy; you're comparing a time when people lived in small clearings in the middle of a forest to people now living in major cities. Secondly, at that point maybe they felt that knowing the native language would give people access to things the rabbis didn't want them to see, now everyone already speaks English so the whole point is moot. Thirdly, there is nothing special about yiddish, the only language with kodesh in its name is Hebrew. a bastardized german isnt kodesh.

basically, you're trying to pretend that pre war circumstances still exist when they dont, so your whole point is irrelevant.

pitputim said...

Hirshel, me thinks you are too sensitive about Havara Sefaradit. Locally, there is a school called Beth Rivkah College (not Beis Rivkah). There is a letter from the Lubavitcher Rebbe ז'ל to R' Shmuel Gurevich advising him that it is better to run the entire School using Havara Sefaradit than to lose a single girl to the School as a result of Ashkenozis.

I'd say you are a romantic and therefore can't countenance the loss of Yiddish.

Personally, I love speaking Yiddish, but I think the Rav got it right. He said that Yiddish was Tashmishei Kedusha, not Kedusha. He switched to English when a Talmid begged to go into his Shiur but couldn't because he couldn't speak Yiddish.

PS. Polishe Yidden that I knew always said the Hungarians were like Goyim because they spoke Goyish (Hungarian) in Shule. Polishe NEVER spoke Polish in Shule! Take that!

The ball game is over said...

I'm not preaching to MO's and the like. However, when Lubavitcher Hassidim completely abandon the language of their forefathers then they are no longer Hassidim. I stand by the Rebbe's siche on Yiddish which has been reprinted countless times. Furthermore ,when P.M. Begin was here the Rebbe specifically said he would speak in the language of the Russian Jews namely Yiddish.He certainly could have spoken in Hebrew or English. Why was he so makpid if this was as peripheral a matter as you pretend it is? If Yiddish is meaningless then why do these same English speaking "Hasids" engage in other "meaningless" rituals such as wearing a long beged on Shabbes? What,according to your way of thinking is holy about that? Why the ever present Borsalino? Is that required by Halacha? Why the daily ablutions in a mikveh? Where does it say that this practice is required? I'm sorry Yiddish and Hassidism are inseparable as are the above mentioned practices. If you're an MO then I agree Yiddish is not an issue.If you're a Hasid then you wear a beard,a gartel,a huge black hat,run to mikveh,put on two pairs of tefillin...and speak English?I'm sorry in my book and in the book of every non-Lubavitch Hasid you're not really a Hasid.This is another example of why Lubavitch doesn't want a Rebbe because without one anything goes.Part of being a hasid is remaining true to darchei oves. That includes the language of our forefathers.In Slonim and other groups they are changing from Ivrit to Yiddish-this is a fact. In Lubavitch they can't wait to ditch Yiddish as soon as possible.What's really going on?And by the way Hassidism is all about continuing the customs and practices of pre Holocaust East European Jewry. It is about not changing darchei oves. If you don't get that then why all the beards,peyes,mikvehs, Kapotes, upsherenishn,strict segregation of sexes,women behind 10 ft. tall mechitzes,etc. etc.?

ball game is over said...

To Azi: "small clearings in the middle of a forest." Like Warsaw,Vilne,Lemberg,Lublin,Lodz, etc.,etc.,

anon. about Moshe rabeinu said...

Ball game-
i do know that Moshe Rabeinu didn't reject geirim because they only spoke Egyptian. i doubt that was a criteria to join am yisroel.
shelo shinu es leshonam.
so you're trying to say that there's an issur to speak english?
why is a streimel and bekeshe any better than a farkneitched hat and untucked shirt?
the point about yiddish writers is to prove that yiddish doesn't necessary equal authentic yiddishkeit

Mottel said...

To Mr. Ball Game: Question so the droves of pre-war Hungarians who spoke to their wives in Hungarian - not Yiddish - weren't chasidim?

Baalbatish said...

English is bastardized German. Azi, you are obviously not a Yiddish speaker, if you did, you would appreciate it's value and not speak with such disrespect about a language that was spoken for a millennium.

Old Gold Yold said...

You know Bobov with two little hoifn with one big sheel near big city Manhettan .
Nothing to do so fight longer din toreh while big people do right in Manhetten with business and money.Belz, on other hand,with beautiful sheel in holy city of Yerushalayim.Big learning and much books.

oldchossid said...

To ball game- I couldn't agree with you more.As a chossid in my 50's it pains me to know end how Americanized our youth have become and hand in hand how far they are from old time chassisishe heimishkeit.I'm not sure if it's the bt's or the kids growing up on shlichus never being exposed to heimishe life but whatever is there cause it's sad!And yes the colored stylish shirts and clothes bothers me too.How bout you Tzig?

Magyars are not Chasidim said...

Mottel said...

To Mr. Ball Game: Question so the droves of pre-war Hungarians who spoke to their wives in Hungarian - not Yiddish - weren't chasidim?

No - they weren't, they were mainly oberlender - who became chasidim after the war.

Anonymous said...

is it sad to see hundreds of baalei tshuvah returning to to inzereh tateh in himmel? i undersstand how you feel, but tachlis wise, how could you compare a white shirt to a yiddishe neshome? it's a shod, and maybe that's part of the reason that so many yidden were chapped by the maskilim before the war.

Magyars are not Chasidim said... said...

wearing animal tails is not a kashering device that makes the wearer into a chassidishe yid.

SR's achievement was to create shtreimlach truggers not chasidishe yidden.

Ball game is over said...

Old Chosid: Thank you for your support.

a BT said...

Ball game, you wrote "Go to boot camp-learn Yiddish and the ways of the alter heim-and then join Habad"

I agree with you completely, just one problem. Who runs these "boot camps"? Chabad or Yugntruf and Arbeter Ring?

Anonymous said...

Old chosid
"And yes the colored stylish shirts and clothes bothers me"
which lubavich yeshiva do they wear color shirt?

Anonymous said...

Both, Satmar Ruv and Reb Moshe Fienstien, said that sheloi Shinu Leshoinoim was only needed before Matan Torah, after Kabolas Torah we have torah umitzvohs to make us in to Jews, It is very nostalgic to talk the shprach of our folks,but it has no real significance. I have also the nostalgic tingling of Aleksie the Baal Agula of the Besht with the horses and the carriage.
I don"t know if you know, but there are still thousands of young mothers that talk Yiddish to their kids in CH and on Shelichus.

azi said...

@Baalbatish

It was spoken for hundreds of years because they mostly sourced in Germany and hence spoke a hebreisized German, (which by the way they would have to have know in order to invent yiddish).

so today everyone is either in america or israel, so lets do what our ancestors did a thousand years ago and take on the language of our new home.

why should development freeze at the point of your choosing? makes no sense.

also you logic isnt correct,

jews spoke yiddish for 1000 years = yiddish is a holy language
so this should work too:
jews wore pants for 1000 years = pants are holy

azi said...

@ball game is over

"Warsaw,Vilne,Lemberg,Lublin,Lodz, etc.,etc.,"

why did you leave out bobov?

ball game said...

BT: You are right-Lubavitch needs to set up a course of study under their own auspices to teach Yiddish to potential Chabad baalei teshuvah.There is a wealth of source material from the Freierdiker Rebbe and the Rebbe.If such a program existed, I'm sure many would take advantage of it.

ball game said...

Sources please for what you claim R. Moshe and SR said[esp.SR]

yoske said...

I'm sorry ball game, but i don't get your logic. if you think that yiddish should be spoken, then speak it, but why does it make someone ois chossid if he doesn't speak it? what does that have to do with chassidus?
and comparing wearing a borsalino to going to the mikveh every day is shtooteem v'havaleem. the mikvah isn't reqiured al pi halocho, but chassidim do it anyways to have a certain level of tahara, it's not just a random m'sora from beis harav.
i think that's the core of the problem. to some "chassidim" their whole chassidus is streimel truggin', kugel fressin', and mikveh. they don't know the shoirish of their lifestyle, and one is just as important as the other.
i just can't imagine that the besh"t was meifitz chassidus with such mesiras nefesh, and m'kareiv so many proste yiddin, just so they can keep their mame loshin and start wearing sable tails on their heads. if that was the extent of his hafotzeh, he probably would've just stayed in the up in the mountains, he probably had plenty to do up there

After the Shave said...

A lubavitcher shliach spoke on Yud Beth Tammuz " The Raayatz told his Russian guards I will answer you in Yiddish even though he spoke Russian . He was ready for mesiras nefesh for Yiddish." I got up and asked in that case why are you the shliach speaking in English if Yiddish is that important ?
Yiddish is the cultural transmitter of our classical values. The new Lubavitch has abandoned much of this baggage language, clothing , but above all the classic derech of chabad is lost.
No stress on avodah,
No stress on haskalah
No introspection
Chitzoniuth RULES
No rebbe
So except for the name where is the Chabad ?

Anonymous said...

yoske said,
"and comparing wearing a borsalino to going to the mikveh every day is shtooteem v'havaleem. the mikvah isn't reqiured al pi halocho, but chassidim do it anyways to have a certain level of tahara, it's not just a random m'sora from beis harav."

Yoske, ball game has a valid point. Of course, to be mekarev a yid he should put on tefillin use any language, facebook, cute videos etc. The bottom line is the mitzva, as the Rebbe says in many places. But for mesoira, yiddish is part and parcel of it. The fact that over 50% of bochurim today cannot read an original LS is very disturbing. And mesoira is different for everyone. For a chagas chossid, it's the levush, the stress on shmiras eynayim, etc. For a chabad chossid, it's learning chassidus before davening. How many "bsheim anach ye'chune" do it? The FR says u can't eat from the shechita of someone who doesn't learn chassidus. Can someone be a chossid without learning shloisho prokim? how many "anash" do that? Can u be a chossid if u trim your beard? check out the tznius in CH. Mesoira is the foundation, and yiddish is part of it.
we are losing it, and it's a major problem, and don't sweep it under the rug with Besht comparisons.

BTW, I noticed the younger generation in bobov, satmar, ger don't speak yiddish as a first language so they're in the same boat. In Ger, after the rebbe says his tish toirah, someone repeats it in ivrit. The BB ger kids don't know yiddish at all.

ball park said...

yoske-don't ask me-ask all the chassidishe Rebbes and their chassidim from the Besht till the present day. The phenomenom of a Hasid who has a beard ,black levush,always in a kapelush,davens nusech ari in a heavy gartel, and then speaks to his wife and kids in English only exists in Lubavitch.Outside of Lubavitch there is no contest as to which language a chosid speaks with another Jew.And please save the stuff about they're not being real Chassidim for your English language farbrengenishn.I'll quote Reb Yoel Kahan"Ich reid nit kein Englesh."He speaks fluent modern Hebrew then why not English? He's only been here for over 50 years. He's not smart enough to learn English?The answer is that Reb Yoel is a Chassidisher Yid who is the son of a Chassidisher Yid and he knows how a chassidisher yid conducts his life and what language one should use when talking to another Jew.I know you all want to Americanize yourself as fast as possible but you do so at great risk.

After the shave said...

Yoske.
I seriously doubt the Besht started Chassiduth so that Chassidim wear a certain type of hat, put up a huge picture of a human being at all their rallies, use only shochtem bodkim and menakrim of a certain chug, do some special routine of song and dance when returning the sefer Torah on Mincha shabbes, etc etc.Was all this the intention of the Besht ?
The Peylishe have their cultic stuff and so does Lubavitch.

After the Shave said...

Pitputtim. You've got the reason the rav switched to English a tad wrong . I won't correct it mipnei kevodo of the rav.... and his fascination with American education and Middle class culture.
Anyhow is tashmishe kedusha not holy ?
Tell me is English tashmishe kedusha? How about Yinnglish or how about an Arrow shirt ?
Or is wearing the Arrow shirt out also in that geder.
I wonder if Yiddish were included in the sefer haminhogim would Lubavitch still be speaking Yiddish. But I guess the author took as it as a "ongenumeme zach "that chassidim speak Yiddish and did not include it.
I also wonder was the Rebbe himself not as brillaint as his shluchim. you mean he did not know that if he spoke in English at public occasions on TV, radio sattelite tens of thousands of more Jews would be affected / Yet he spoke in Yiddish. But the shluchim are kliger thye know that only in English can they reach more people.
I won;t bother repeating the story of the Chofetz Chaim and the Polish President.
talmid hamachkim es rabbo. Or maybe Rabbam dakru legabba yiddish.

Anonymous said...

Ball
"You are right-Lubavitch needs to set up a course of study under their own auspices to teach Yiddish to potential Chabad baalei teshuvah"
in every big Lubavich kehila there is a cheder for yiddish speaking, as Nachla, Kfar Chabad.

Anonymous said...

After the Shave
"put up a huge picture of a human being at all their rallies"
hiskashrus to tzadikim is a big fondation in chassidus, yes it is a way to get closer to hashem. It is a mitzvas Esse but the Besht put a emphasis on it.Start by looking in the first Chasidic Sefer Toldoth Yakov Yossef. The Rebbe picture is a expression of hiskashrus.I know that it was not in the time of Reb Eizzel or the Reshab, but today it is part of life.

Anonymous said...

After the shave
"use only shochtem bodkim and menakrim of a certain chug,"
I dont know the reason of other chasidim, but if you mean chabad, it is very simple that a chabadnik a yerai shomaim should eat only from a shochet that is yeara shomaim merabim.Only a shochet with the AR belief in achdus hashem of the Besht . It is by chasidim as eating by a shochet that does not belief in all 13 Ikrim. You can argue that maybe is wife has a very long shietel, but they belief that Emuna is first.You have the right to disagree.

Anonymous said...

After the shave
"The new Lubavitch has abandoned much of this baggage language, clothing , but above all the classic derech of chabad is lost."
so why do you hate it, if it is long gone.

Yoske said...

ATS
of course every gruop have their cultish practices, and i'n not saying that the Besht keneitched up his hat. the problem is when you think that these things are the ikrei hachassidus. some of the things you mentioned have some yeosd, soem not, btu the point is that you have a warped understanding of chassidus if you think that someone who doesn't wear a borsalino with kneitchis can't be a chossid

psol said...

"comparing wearing a borsalino to going to the mikveh every day is shtooteem v'havaleem"

You are right. Wearing a Borsalino is fine, but tovlei shachris were minim.

after the shave said...

Yoske and Annonymous.
I have a warped understanding of Chassidus (One day someone will explain to me what chassidus is) Chassidim and anyone who thinks that the only irai shomayim merabbim are Chabad peopel are not warped ?

Anonymous said...

ATS
if you don't know chasidus then bug off and discuss the salt in the Arizona wheat.

Miles said...

re:anony.4:51 The picture of a human being is a part of life because you make it a part of life. You are violating at the bare minimum"uvbchukoseihem" as this is the practice of the Goyim in Eastern Europe,Ukraine, and Greece.You might also be in violation of much more serious issurim.Does any othur "chug" in Judaism do anything remotely similar? Did the Rebbe tell his hassidim to parade around 770 with a picture of the Freierdiker Rebbe in an enormous frame?

AboveBord said...

To:After the Shave
After the shave did you learn hassidus mit a bazunderen geshmak? Did you have a tiferen derher?Did you use an old Remington or a Norelco or maybe pudreh?Did the "arum"on the diknoh kadishoh change for the better.Ziknei Hahassidim and gedolei hamashpiim await your kind reply.

yoske said...

ats,
by "you" i didn't mean you, my point is that every group has cultish practices, like you said, but not every group will claim that without those practices, you can't be a chossid
the fact that chabad may or may not have warped practices isn't the issue. they still define a chossid as someone who has ikrei hachassidus, and sc"s it won't make a difference if his hat got those kneitches or not, and if he tucks in or out his short sleeve arrow shirt. all those things are part of a bazundereh culture, that every group has

Anonymous said...

Miles
" You are violating at the bare minimum"uvbchukoseihem" as this is the practice of the Goyim in Eastern Europe,Ukraine, and Greece"
who knows about some culture in Greece, According the Maharik that his brought down in all poskim their is no chukas hagoi if you are not do it for Avoda Zora, stop throwing around hollow statements.

Miles said...

anony 11:12. I am not talking about ancient Greece. I am talking about parading icons in the streets. This takes place in New York City and all over the world on various goyishe choges.According to the Ramoh if it is a custom related to avodah zarah or immorality it is forbidden. Check it in the shulchan oruch. Sorry for the bad news but parading an icon in the street is a minhag of ovdei avodah zoroh which means it's forbidden.

Anonymous said...

the Maharik paskened that all that is assur is the intentions. Obviously if the avoda of that particular Idol is a particular avoda you can not do it and we don't judge the intention. their is no think in Judaism that the goyim don't do.
They pray, use palm as the Lulavim, they have Haloween with masks,They use wine in church etc..

After the Shave said...

I used aqua velva after my Rabbeinu Toms and my face feels good. However Mikve vasser feels even better. I used the Old Norelco which I bought from an old Oberlandisher Yid in Greenpoint. Nothign is as good as the blade at least thats what some of the Ch bums tell me,As the old timers say besser a Yid ohn a bord eyder a bord ohn a Yid.
Oy di Poydre voo krigt men deize gite sechora heint ?
The burn reminds me of hell and of the Chassidishe mashke in my old mouth.

miles said...

Anony.12:08 Something which we do because of a din or minhag from our fathers we don't care about the goyim. However,something new which the Goyim do mitzad avodah zoroh or immorality is forbidden mitzad uvchukoseihem. If it was just intentions then everything would be permitted since actual avodah zoroh and immorality are forbidden al pi din not because of uvchukoseihem.A goy worships avodah zoroh by parading icons in the street then it is forbidden for a Jew to do so even if the Jew's intentions are leshem shomayim.That's one reason given for not permitting a Jew to be bareheaded in court since this is the way a goy gives respect to his avodah zoroh. Nowhere is it implied that the jew is doing it for that reason. Yet it is forbidden because of uvchukoseihem.The same goes for those Poskim who assered beimelech and groz on Shovuos.It's the same line of thinking.

yehupitz said...

miles,
There is a big distinction between your other examples of B'chukoseihem applications and a parade. Those examples of A"Z customs are because they have no taam besides the A"Z aspect of it, like trees or deciding that bare heads imply more kovod. R 'Dovid Cohen defines Chukas Hagoy as imiation of elumation of a goyish or A"Z practice that has no reasonable human reason.

Parades are a natural manifestation of showing Kovod, to march l'kovod some event or person, the bechina in Tanach of "Ratzim l'fanav", which in the Chabad mindset, modneh to be sure,of seeing the Rebbe as Melech (even before the extra Moshiach baggage made its appearance) is consistent; hakafos on Sukkos and Shmini Atzeres; and the Bnei Yisrael walking by past Moshe in Parshas Bamidbar, which again, in the Chabad mindset, modneh to be sure, of seeing the Rebbe alone as "Ispashtusa" etc., is consistent.

You'll ask "Ah he's dead?" Nu, nu.. Even the normaleh Lubavitchers who know the Rebbe died see him as the current leader, al derech haYerushalmi oidois Shimshon, since they're still following his orders in the absence of anyone else taking the reins, or the reign. And leaders' pictures do show up in their "subjects'" homes and schools and embassies and consulates. I've seen it in Litvishe places as well.

Having said all that, and having meant every word, it does weird me out.

Also, to my memory, although it's been many years since I've read R Shach's objection letter about the Lag B'Omer parades, he never mentioned this accusation. And we all know he would not have refrained from making it if he saw it as legitimate or even imaginable recrimination in the smallest subset of his talmidim.

miles said...

Yehupitz:In Rav Shach's times the parading of the Rebbe's picture in its overwhelming enormous form complete with ornate frame was not the common practice .If R.Shach couldn't tolerate the parades,then he would have accepted this exceedingly modne phenomenon[your expression]?I wouldn't say anything if we were talking about an 8 by 10 photograph. However,the huge photos or better yet paintings are disturbing in that they remind one of the practices of ovdei a"z. I am sorry but even according to your rendition of R. Dovid Cohn's opinion, the only goyim in our medineh who carry around pictures of their "saints" are those participating in "religious" festivals on their "choges".Even if you'll come up with a heter,is this the way yidn who are supposedly medakdek bekaloh kevachamuroh to behave in public?As I said, this was never seen anywhere in the Jewish world before Lubavitch introduced it. It certainly does not smell or feel right.Did the Rebbe tell anyone to do this when his FIL passed away in '50?I think you know the answer.But then again mayseh rav is only important for a short sleeved Arrow shirt not for devorim hoomdim berumo shel olem.

Anonymous said...

Miles
"Something which we do because of a din or minhag from our fathers we don't care about the goyim."
how many generations do u need that you parenrs shoud do it, that you should get that heter?Eventough alot of poskin stopped minhagim that were their for years because of Darkie Emori. The bottom line is, if it is done by a yiras shomaim and for yiras shomaim then it has no problem. Lubavicher rebbe had the right to establish a minhag as much as Reb Mottele Nezchizer or Reb Mottele Nadvorner.

Anonymous said...

Miles
"That's one reason given for not permitting a Jew to be bareheaded in court since this is the way a goy gives respect to his avodah zoroh."
This site is the place to discuss the lomdois and all the poskim on this matter, But if I am not mistaking the question in the Maharik is on clothing that is being used in church and someone wants to wear it for other intentions. Having a icon by a parade,that is not the offical Avoda Zora is just a small screw in the religious ceremony, you just try to blow it up. Having a stage with propagnda signs for your party are also being done by church gatherings.

Anonymous said...

Miles/Yupitz
don't learn so much into rav Shach, if it was not a yeshiveshe subject he did not know it

Anonymous said...

Miles
"I said, this was never seen anywhere in the Jewish world before Lubavitch introduced it"
Lubavicher Rebbe has no problem to introduce a new concept. I don't know, if you know that Klal Yiroel never had a Newspaper before the ultra conservative Reb Yehushoa of Belz introduced it to Klal Yisroel.And Klal Yisroel did not have a party as the Communists had, till the Gerer Rebbe introduced it in to Klal Yisroel.
All the Aguda Kniesias has huge photos of their leaders, even before WW2.

miles said...

Newspapers and political parties have absolutely nothing to do with a"z or immorality which are the conditions necessary for bechukoseihem. Parading- and I stress -in the streets-with a enormous painting of their leader in a fancy ornate frame is specifically a minhog akum. They did not parade in the streets of Vienna or Marienbad with pictures of gedolim,I assure you.If you think Shoprite milk is metamtem your moach,then imitating the komrei akum is not metamtem your moach pi elef?Think about it.

Anonymous said...

Miles
"or immorality"
what is imoral about a picture?

Anonymous said...

I think that drinking Kedem Grape juice is Metamtem too, because Welsh invented grape juice for the Churches in the time of Prohibition.
Again if you do something with no Kavona of AZ, then their is no issur.
I am a person that reads the NYT for the last 25 years and not isolated from the world and I never knew the custom of photos at greek festivals. You Kratzt out some AZ custom, that nobody ever heard, unless you look it up in wikepedia.

miles said...

Anony.1:49 Go to the encyclopedia and look up the custom of Goyim parading through the streets with their icons of their "saints" and of yoshke.You'll find it under "icon." Every kid in public school has seen these festivals on TV with the galech and the icons. I didn't kratz anything out. In Poland and Russia this was more commonplace than America. Go to Little Italy on s.anthony's day if you don't believe me.The rest of your comment iz gehakt an altn tzebrochenem tchainik.

Anonymous said...

Miles
Hu asher dibarti I need a encyclopedia or lok for some PS kids, to find a new sin,
Have a gut yomtov

Anonymous said...

Miles
BTW,
since you are a AZ pro.
Aske the PS kids, if a hachnosas Sefer torah on the streets with a sefer torah(religous icon) does not smell Greechish.

miles said...

What smells greechish is walking past the red chair and receiving phantom kos shel brochoh.Everyone knows what the picture you parade around with is all about and you can tell your bobbe mayses to the Amerikaner Yoldn not to me since I know the story from the inside. Prof. Berger is not finished with you yet. You may fool some narishe American MO Rabbis but everyone knows exactly what you're up to with your new "rituals."So fardrei mir nit di kop with hachnosas sefer torahs.Everyone in BP,Williamsburg,Lakewood,and Monroe knows exactly what you're up to and nobody's buying your oisgetrachte narishe mayselech.Here's Rabbi Shwei ordering up a nice long Yehi for kompote at the " inauguration" of R.Braun. I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Miles
"Everyone knows what the picture you parade around with is all about and you can tell your bobbe mayses to the Amerikaner Yoldn not to me since I know the story from the inside. "
what is the story ? can you share it?

Anonymous said...

Miles
"Prof. Berger is not finished with you yet"
please don't give more Berger nightmares from the rosh hamaminim Reb Duvid Berger.
Slowly I see that it is not only the picture that bothers you...
Ask just Berger if he took care on the Gay club in Yu?

Anonymous said...

Chabad is in mortal fear! Prof. Berger is not finished yet with Chabad! We are quaking in our boots. Fear is overwhelming and horrific! We have to do something. Berger is coming..coming. The heretic Berger who doesnt believe in Talmud and Mashiach is stll on the loose. He was so successful in the past. The MO (the MO are the most angry with Chabad, not the Ultra, besides some pathological haters. Why is that so? Me thinks, Its not the heresy that bothers them but the belief in a realistic Mashiach, they want Mashiach to be only a theory, an concept or some allegory not literal and concrete. That divinity is something of the public sphere threatens their worldview) decided that Chabad is heresy. So they cant rely with the OU Hecheser on Chabad! They can rely on the weakest Jew who barely believes in anything and barely practices but not Chabad. The absurdity is enormous.

Anyhow, now the problem is parading pictures which reminds the iconic doctrine of the Greece orthodox Church. Before, the main problem was the fact that some in Chabad believe that a deceased Mashiach seems Christian, and now there is something new. Iconic images which is apparently similar to byzantine or GO Church doctrine.

Is the actual Picture the problem? If so it doesn't matter if you parade it or not, but if you accept that the icon is imbued with real divinity (as is the doctrine of the icons) than not the parading is the issue but the belief in its divinity. Icons of all Gedolim are prevalent ny any event commemorating any Godel of yesteryear. Are the iconisists or iconoclasts? and the trend of images is becoming more widespread in every sphere of life, and part and partial of Orthodoxy. Is anything wrong with that "picture"? I dont think the great iconoclast miles (who btw reminds me Shnier)has any problem with that? So why is parading diffrent? Does parading add or subtract anything here? In all Chadishe Hoifen that is paraded to one degree or another.

And talking about Ubechukosheim, did you see the birthday Cake the Reb Elyashiv received towards his 101 birthday? That minhag he got from all the Matakei Hashmuei or is perhaps leftovers from Heichal Shlome maybe the 3rd volume of Shakdan will clarify that.

Anonymous said...

Anon
Gut Gezugt

Anonymous said...

hirshel
I think that this year Chabadniks should not open the door at Shefoich Chamoischo...
Since Berger is loose, and Miles Notified that he is coming...

Anonymous said...

Anon
I Yhink that Elyashev birthday cake is Al Pi Kabolas the Ziede the Leshem

miles said...

If the Rebbe is moshiach how did the events in Mumbai take place? I'll tell Prof. Berger to stay home till I get your response. Meanwhile I'll go read the book review of R. Avrohom Mayorer by your favorite writer Reb Schneur, zol zein gezunt.You're not afraid to tzepenen zech mitn Leshem?Interesting.At least the last greise anonymous has admitted the similarity between what you do and what the go orth.ch. does in its processions. Now we're making some progress!

Anonymous said...

Miles
I asked a rav and he said he needs a week to ponder on this theological question.Whay are you tzikratzt about the leshem?