A very good read.
בראון does a good job stating lots of facts, some known and some not, without losing the respect that is necessary. In what has become very popular, he puts a human touch to the CI, telling us how he suffered in life both physically as well as from an unhappy marriage, but always suffered in silence and never lost his respect for her. That's one things that comes to mind. If you've read פאר הדור or מעשה אי"ש you may know alot of what's written here, but that's no chiddush. Braun is not focusing on the biography, as much as he's focusing on the ideology, as well as what made him great and what was behind many of his ideas and opinions. But even if you're interested in the biography, Braun manages to "fill in" much of what's been missing from the other biographies, or "Hagiographies," as he likes to call them. The book is pricey, which is why I borrowed it.
55 comments:
Besides the titles you mention , for the REAL Chazon Ish read Chaim Grades novel Die Yeshiva(Tzemach Atles) . The character Machze Avrohom is the Chazon Ish and the book portrays his multi faceted personality as well as that of his wife.Other nephews of the Chazon Ish also make appearances here. In conversation with the chief character of the book Chaikel Vilner(obviously Grade himself) the Machze Avrohom unburdens himself about his own life and the hard decisions he made.In real life Grade was for several years a private student of the CI.
Brown's vouminous book is not intended for the Charedi audience. Much of it is old news to those following the Charedi narrative in Israel. He is interested in presenting the ideology(his halachic philosophy) of the CI from an academic viewpoint. I bought the book but have not read it, I have heard its a very well put together volume with much insight.
Most academic book are heavy on the methodology and weak and sometimes even in error about the facts. I hope this one is different.
put in some choice quotes please. does he mention that the CI held that r kook could be relied on for run of the mill shalos?
anon: "does he mention that the CI held that r kook could be relied on for run of the mill shalos?"
dont rely on stories and masey bichlich to know the true person,read kooks books yourself and see how he מסלף דברים דא"ח its a מציאות so there is no way to have a פּלוגתא on a מציאות
also as noted the SR totally ostrecized לחרפּה ולדראון עולם him and his words must be recokned with sooner or later these are his words written by SR z"l
"איש צר ואויב לדת תורתינו הקדושה ולעיקרי האמונה דרך קשתו כאויב להפר ברית עולם, הנקוב בשם אברהם יצחק קוק, הוא הגבר אשר הרחיב גבול הטומאה ר"ל, היא העדה הרעה המכנים עצמם בשם ציונים, אשר הן המה בעתים הללו האבני נגף לבית ישראל ומחריבים ארה"ק וכל הארצות בכלל, האומרים ערו ערו עד היסוד בה הוא קיום תוה"ק והאמונה המסורה לנו, שהוא היסוד לקיום כל ישראל בכלל ובפרט, ומבלעדי זאת הוסיף פשעים על פשעים, להדפיס בספריו הטמאים, גלויים וידועים, דברי מינות וכפירה, בעזות מצח וחוצפה יתירה, את ה' הוא מגדף ביד רמה, אשר לא נראה ולא נשמע כזאת מימים ימימה..." (שו"ת דברי יואל חו"מ סי' קל"א - קל"ב).
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/09/rabbi-rakeffet-rav-hutner-rabbi-dovid.html
I do not understand this whole question about the Hazon Ish re R Kook. Any normal Jew who isn't infected with the pathology of the Shittah quoted above knows to respect, if not agree with, a Gaon Olam who was respected and regularly corresponded with all the other great Rabbis and who wrote amazing Seforim. If that isn't enough to get you street cred in the Haredi world nowadays, than maybe we should question how much time they spend on Torah vs time on the shittah.
http://dlib.nli.org.il/view/action/singleViewer.do?dvs=1315788936267~863&locale=en_US&VIEWER_URL=/view/action/singleViewer.do?&preferred_extension=jpg&DELIVERY_RULE_ID=15&application=DIGITOOL-3&forebear_coll=7751&frameId=1&usePid1=true&usePid2=true
Keeping in mind that the Chazon Ish refered to Rav Kook as "My master" when he sent him a halachic shalyah of his own, I think the answer is obvious.
of all the mentioned torah greats who supposedly held very highly of r kook, why didnt any of them teach their students his torah and gadlus?
duh...
Of course the CI was מחשיב R, Kםםלץ Hקרק ןד אhis quote from the מעשי איש ח"א דף ל"ו:
תיכף ברדתו מן האניה העסיק את רבינו דיני המצוות התלויות בארץ...כשחלפו פחות מיומיים מבואו ליפו, ישב והריץ אגרת אל הראי"ה קוק בירושלים, בה שאל ותמה אודות מה שנוהגים יהודי ארץ ישראל באיסור להחליף פחות משוה פרוטה על המטבע שכבר יש בו מעשר מקודם.
what's the story with his marriage? Please elucidate
His wife had mental issues.In der heim they use to call it "a klafte", in US it is called Borderline personality disorder.
anon: "than maybe we should question how much time they spend on Torah vs time on the shittah."
hey pal question yourself! their is litterally over 40,000 students at any given time in all of satmer school systems and satelites who learn 'and live' torah v'yirah, torah and shitah is 'one and the same'!!!
Who is בראון?
R.Chusid-Where did you pick up such a loshon? An immediate apology is in order.
klainer said...
"R.Chusid-Where did you pick up such a loshon?"
are you reffering to this?
איש צר ואויב לדת תורתינו הקדושה...
well this is the loshon word by word from SR z"l in his sefer: (שו"ת דברי יואל חו"מ סי' קל"א - קל"ב
it certainly not my text. I'm sorry to up set you
Anony.with an army of 40,000-Are you the biggest-with 40,000 imaginary troops- or the smallest with 300 who didn't kneel? Which one is it? You want to be a bully or you want to feel sorry for yourselves. You can't have it both ways.Otherwise you'll have to find a Reform,apikorshisher,Tzionistisher psychiatrist to prescribe medication.And even the medication will probably have been manufactured by TEVA...
Anon.11:04 Are you R.Chusid? If not,why are you getting involved?By the way why is a holy person like you on the internet at all? You think the SR would approve of your activities in the no-man's land called the internet filled with unbelievable nisyonos? Come to think of it,you should apologize,too.The SR was just as concerned about shmiras habris as he was about Tziyonus.
Hate has a long mesoira in Satmar
From 1927
banned books
1. Works by R. Abraham Isaac Kook.
2. Works by R. Aaron Chorin.
3. Works by R. Samuel Glasner.
4. Works by the rebbe of Muncacz, the Minchas Elazar.
5. The 'Bi'ur' of R. Moses Mendelssohn.
6. Works by R. Naphtali Hirtz Wessely.
http://onthemainline.blogspot.com/2008/05/index-of-prohibited-books-from-satmar.html
Today it's all Satmar & Brisk. Nothing else is being taght
From Circus Tent archives
June 20,2007
Chaim G aka Bray of Fundy
"IMO the reason for this phenomenon is not due to a lack of scholarship but due to a constriction and closing of the Charedi mind. Despites all the wailing and moaning about makhlokes and lack of unity today’s frum world is not just (externally) frummer than that of a generation ago, it is much more monolithic, monotonous and monochromatic. The great cacophony of voices has been stilled, and the marketplace of ideas has closed shop. The great debates of lomdus vs. mussar, Zionism vs. anti-Zionism, secular education vs. full-time, long –time limud HaTorah have all been settled with (respectively) Brisk, the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Ahron Kotler the victors and Rav Yisrael Salanter, Rav Kook and Rav YB Soloveitchik the losers. Any die-hards who think otherwise are either too scared to express their minority opinions, or as oblivious to the facts-on-the-ground as the Japanese fighters convinced of the Emperors desire for them to keep fighting World War II to the last man as late as 1949.
And so, Satmar had gained pre-eminence ideologically as Brisk has in Lomdus. In this ambience where there is only one flavor in the ice-cream parlor the only choice remaining is “who makes a better , richer, more authentic Vanilla”. Forget about Chocolate and Strawberry, let alone Mocha or Pistachio. No one is interested in hearing shiurim in the style of Rav Shimon Shkop or (SHUDDER) the Avnei Nezer. No one is inspired by mussar/hashkafa in the style of Rav Elya Lazer Dessler or Rav Yerucham. The only factor in a given mosad/ magid shiur/ communities “attractiveness” is how well does it approximate/ how quickly can it gain me entrée into… Satmar and/or Brisk. In religion the frummer, the more extreme, the more anti-Zionist/Goyim/modernity/secular education the better. In education, the more Brisk the lomdus (and the better the track record of acceptance by Avrohom Yehoshua) the better. No popular Yeshivas extant today will remain popular after the death and/or infirmity of their Roshei Yeshiva because whoever is the supreme "Brisker Lamdan" of the moment, and/or crony of Avrohom Yehoshua will then attract the best Bochurim.
And so I find all these expressions of shocked disbelief over BMG inviting the Monroe Satmar Rebbe to be the keynote speaker on Rav Shneur's z”l Yohrzeit comical. Lakewood stopped having a personality of its own even B’Chaim Chiyuso of Rav Shneur. Every place today is a satellite of Brisk and Satmar. As there is a long-standing the family feud between the Kotlers and the Soloveitchiks, and with a little D’var Torah Mo’ois Koinois to sweeten the pot, no greater kavod could’ve been rendered Rav Shneur’s z”l memory than to showcase the titular head of the movement that defines the stripe of Yiras Shomayim, not merely ascendant, but in monopoly-like control, in contemporary frum, Judaism"
http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2007/06/3-tammuz-was-end-of-line.html
Resza said... "Are you the biggest-with 40,000 imaginary troops- or the smallest with 300 who didn't kneel? Which one is it? You want to be a bully or you want to feel sorry for yourselves. You can't have it both ways"
It's hard to have a civil conversation with an angry am haretz!
במדרש
אמר לו הקדוש ברוך הוא בשלש מאות איש המלקקים אושיע את ישראל ועליהם הוא אומר והשארתי בישראל "שבעת אלפים", ועליהם הוא אומר "והיה שארית יעקב בגוים כטל מאת ד' כרביבים ...
כ"י
Fed Up In Peoria said...
Hate has a long mesoira in Satmar
From 1927
banned books
1. Works by R. Abraham Isaac Kook.
2. Works by R. Aaron Chorin.
3. Works by R. Samuel Glasner.
4. Works by the rebbe of Muncacz, the Minchas Elazar.
5. The 'Bi'ur' of R. Moses Mendelssohn.
6. Works by R. Naphtali Hirtz Wessely.
Before you state your comments check it out please to put the name of 'rebbe of Muncacz the Minchas Elazar' between these chracthers is a gross lie! see the first response/tshuvah of the divrei yoel was actually written to the 'the Minchas Elazar z"l' after thanking him for receiving his sefer!!!
klainer said...
"Are you R.Chusid? If not,why are you getting involved? By the way why is a holy person like you on the internet at all?"
sorry klainer i beg your pardon! btw does your 'rebbe' let you stray on the net? (or is it treif only for satmar?) if not i'll say
קשוט עצמך ואח"כּ קשוט אחרים
are you not holy, is there a hole in your holiness?
kleiner,
it is not a loshon, it is a metsiyus. Chazon Yish's wife was mentally sick-how else should i write it?
And another thing-you are not a moderator to tell who should get involved or not.
http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2010/02/getting-to-know-moetzesagudath-israel.html
"Before you state your comments check it out please to put the name of 'rebbe of Muncacz the Minchas Elazar' between these chracthers is a gross lie! see the first response/tshuvah of the divrei yoel was actually written to the 'the Minchas Elazar z"l' after thanking him for receiving his sefer!!!"
Go to the link
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=12885&st=&pgnum=174&hilite=
You won't find any of the above mentioned books ( except for the Minchas Elosor's seforim ) in any haredi institution or home. At least not visibly.So it's not only Satmar. How about the Chemdas Yomim. Is it accepted in Satmar?
Russian chussid: In the "Alter Heim" it was called "nervous" or "oifgeregt".
Rav Yitzchok Hutner (RYH) never met the Chazon Ish in person. However, starting some time in the mid 1950s RYH started to drop his known public embrace of Rav Kook (someone whom he he knew personally very well), such as his display of RAYHK's picture portraits in his (RYH's) home and even sukkah.
Supposedly it was over the issue of gius banos, that RYH realized that any open displays of connections to RAYHK were dangerous for him in the ever-growing Agudist and Chasidishe velten, and he therefore made a very conscious and calculated decision to embrace the CI as one worthy of the kind of adulation and kavod that he had previously showered on RAYHK.
This was symbolized when RYH supposedly took down the photo of RAYHK in his Sukkah and replaced it with one of the CI instead, all during the time when the gius banos question was boiling over in EY in the 1950s.
In addition he promoted the CI as his moreh derech, and when the CI passed away he made the Yeshiva Chaim Berlin sit shiva in its bais medrash, something they only did later when RYH himself passed away in 1980.
RYH would also observe the CI's Yohrtzeit by coming out from wherever he was secluded, to come to the bais medrash to say kaddish for the CI himself every year without fail, something that is still continued to this day by the current heads of CB.
RYH also encouraged his talmidim to acquaint themselves with the CI's very difficult sefarim and chiddushim, and especially pushed the igros of the CI as sources of hashkofa, mussar, and most importantly, that key phrase "da'as Toirah".
There has been some speculation among the wiser CBers about RYH's motives and methods in dumping his known open connections to RAYHK and embracing the CI who he hardly knew in his stead. Was it genuine or was it a ploy? The puzzle remains.
What do you mean by "sitting Shiva in the BM", I was there in 1980 and don't remember this.
Fed Up In Peoria said... said “Go to the link”
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=12885&st=&pgnum=174&hilite=
What does י"ח מ"ש פון ווארשא had to do with satmar ?? probably was a belzer anyway!
The CI writes in an Igeres (hebrewbooks.org does not have that volume uploaded yet) that although disagreements are usual amongst Talmidei chachomim, the Tora view on Zionism is absolute, until we suspect anyone with a different view as ... (in the original they have the...).
He obviously did not mean the nuanced differences between R' Chaim Brisker and the SR. He meant the general attitude; positive or negative.
It has to do with the general culture of the region. SR would not be able to succeed with his hate and self serving agenda without a populace that would be willing partners in his quest.
SR was a success story for Satmar and Hungarian Jews but a failure for Jews and Judaism.
Fed Up In Peoria said...
"It has to do with the general culture of the region. SR would not be able to succeed with his hate and self serving agenda"
"whatever".. I would say you're blindness ignorence and hate is obvious besides being a מלעיג על דברי חכמים I'm glad you give him credit for succeding.
Anon
""whatever".. I would say you're blindness ignorence and hate is obvious besides being a מלעיג על דברי חכמים I'm glad you give him credit for succeeding."
why is he a Malig...
Don't all the frum Jews say the same on RSR Hirsch?
Yankel
"the Tora view on Zionism is absolute, until we suspect anyone with a different view as ... (in the original they have the...)."
I doubt there is such letter
anon: "why is he a Malig..."
1)his comments on the minchas elazar (like SR forbid his sefer) than when proven wrong he writes its a region thing well warsaw is not hungary י"ח מ"ש פון ווארשא
2)than he makes out SR as a hatefull self serving person, when the total 100% opposite is true !
3)writes he was a success for hungarians only, he has atleast as much admierersחסידים/ by polish, gelizianers, russian and litvish (except israelis) jews as of hungarians
If anyone in our generation was a רב דומה למלאך! it was him hence a מלעיג על דברי חכמים
anon: "Don't all the frum Jews say the same on RSR Hirsch?"
not exactly, no comparison and 2 wrongs dont make one right
"3)writes he was a success for hungarians only, he has atleast as much admierersחסידים/ by polish, gelizianers, russian and litvish (except israelis) jews as of hungarians "
This can only be written by someone who lives in a Hungarian insular world and gets his news from Der Yid.
Time to get out into the real world and broaden your horizons.
"TSA said...What do you mean by "sitting Shiva in the BM", I was there in 1980 and don't remember this."
Sounds like you weren't at CB when it counted, like most talmidim there who float through the place and miss the important historical stuff.
Rav Yitzchok Hutner (RYH) was niftar in Yersushalayim on 20 Kislev of 1980 after suffering a paralyzing stroke about three weeks earlier. He lingered in a semi-conscious coma as his vital organs failed. A few days before the end, his top people in New York were told by Rav Yonoson David, (RYH's only son in law and true successor) that the end was close and the Chaim Berlin yeshiva top guns in Brooklyn jumped on a plane to make it in time for the levaya which was on the Friday as they got there.
It was decided that while RYH's choshuve levaya was in progress in Yerushalyim that an asifa be held in the CB bais medrash concurrently that Friday morning as it was about six hours behind in time. In those day's phone hookups were rare and needed more time to set up so that wasn't done.
But what was to be done in the CB bais medrash? That was when the the CB heads decided that they would follow the ma'aseh rav of RYH they experienced when after the Chazon Ish was niftar and in the time of his levaya in Bnai Brak, RYH stopped the bais medrash proceedings and made them all sit shiva on the floor to mourn the petira of the CI.
And so early in the morning the same was done when RYH himself passed away, and they sat shiva a good while while tehilim were said and hesped was given ending with the kel moleh.
The one chosen to give the hesped while Rav Aron Schechter was away in EY was Rav Pinchas Kahn, at that time RY of the Breuer's Yeshiva in Washington Heights, NY, and formerly RY of Yeshiva Nachalas HaLevi'im (since defunct), a devoted talmid of RYH and today the top maggid shiur in CB under RAS and his family clan.
So it was clearly what the RYH instructed CB during the time of the petira of the CI to do, that was the later pattern for what they did when RYH himself was niftar.
The only other time there was an asifa for another gadol in the CB bais medrash late in the night was when Rav Shach was niftar in EY, there was a sound hookup to Israel as technology improved. Otherwise when others such as Rav Moshe Feinstein or Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky and others were niftar the seder hayeshiva at CB was interrupted to allow anyone to attend the levayas in Brooklyn or New York City. However no one sat shiva in the actual CB bais medrash and there were always a few who may have just continued with regular learning if that's what they wanted to do.
Great efforts were made by CB when the Satmar Ruv, Rav Yoel was niftar to encourage attendance of his levaya, but it was at the end of the summer so it was very chaotic and getting to Monroe was new. When the last Lubavitcher Rebbe was niftar there was no action taken. A few minor officials from the CB office attended on their own free volition. Maybe some people know what RYH did when the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe was niftar in 1950 because RYH came to learn from him during at times during 1940-1950 and RYH came to do nichum aveilim in Crown Heights on at least one occasion maybe more.
Anon
"
Before you state your comments check it out please to put the name of 'rebbe of Muncacz the Minchas Elazar' between these chracthers is a gross lie! see the first response/tshuvah of the divrei yoel was actually written to the 'the Minchas Elazar z"l' after thanking him for receiving his sefer!!!"
this is not a lie, it was printed in a periodical in Satmar, by one od Satmar ruvs henchman,
The Satmar Ruv despised the Munkacher Ruv, he even wrote a letter stating that the Munkacher goes to secular court.
Get your facts together, before you write.
1)Writing a teshuva is no way of proving the level of mutual admiration,
2)I heard that the titles were added by Yosel Aschkenazi, since in the original, Satmar Ruv title was very lukewarm for such a giant like the munkacher.
CBT
"because RYH came to learn from him during at times during 1940-1950"
I think he learned chassidus with the 7th Rebbe, in the era of his FIL, and afterwards.
Tzig. How do you permit calling a Rebbetzin a Klafte .Frankly how do permit calling anyone this name befumbei ? The Rebebtzin of the Chazon Ish the Rashkebahag . Mr. RC's translation is nonsense , it means some thing that rhymes with stitch.
Is this what this site has come to ,calling the rebbetzin of the Chazon Ish an ugly name ?. In chodesh Elul noch. Perhaps Communism did in fact have an effect on "Russian Chassidus" ? By the way Mr. Chusid did you know the rebebtzin of the Chazon Ish personaly ?
Many rebebtzins were tough ladies . But calling them a k , what is going on here. even among Goyische media this title is not used .
Mike P
I Think what RC meant was that a bad wife was called a klafte, not that the CI's REBBETZIN WAS ONE
Anon.1:05 Do you feel better now that you've called me "an angry am haretz?"TEVA makes a generic medication for this machele,too.I think it's called Satmar Schizoid Affective Disorder. Insurance does reimburse.Stay healthy.
"it is not a loshon, it is a metsiyus. Chazon Yish's wife was mentally sick-how else should i write it?"
There you have it direct from Russian Chusid's comment.A major apology is due.Did Russian Chusid ever diagnose the CI's Rebettzin? Is Russian Chusid a doctor?
Resza said... bla bla
read your own comment which actually gives it away the 'am haretz part' (and your TEVA.. knowledge of drug joices..!)although I'm not sure they make one for your ilnesses, I was just repeating what was already declared by yourself in a earlier comment, anyhow I'm sorry.
Mike Powers
"Rebbetzin a Klafte "
I know it is a derogatory word but what exactly does it mean?
is it German? Polish? Russian?
Perhaps Russian Husid ought to do the following in the future :
1. Think prior to writing ,and or learn the meaning of Yiddish words. Klafte comes from kelev and that (the female version)is what he called the Rebbetzin of the Chazon Ish The term klafte has no relationship to mental illness .This the Baalaboste who took care of the Chazon Ish, fed him nursed him in all his illnesses (he ahd diabetes) and shared his home. Whatever issues there were , are matters between the Chazon Ish and G-D.
Perhaps RC should go to BB and tell Reb Chaim K that his muma was a klafte , oh I'm sorry Reb Chaim that is just a fact and its not really a bad....
Mike Powers,
First of all, YOU do not know Yidish(the Ukrainian/Russian version of it).If it came out to sharf on your zhargon, i will say i am sorry next time i am in BB beis hachaim.Besides the fact saying that a person was sick is not a bizoyon.
Second of all,learn your history better. I took my facts from people who were in CY house almost daily.Do more research-books do not talk about things like that.
It only adds to a gadlus of a person, that even in his own house he did not have menuche , harchuves hadaas but he never lost himself and was one of the major gdoilim klal isruel had.
Chaim Berlin Tragedy
" Maybe some people know what RYH did when the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe was niftar in 1950 "
What did RYH exactly do when the 6th Rebbe was niftar?
I was disappointed with the book. He sits on the wall too much and is too eager to please. There are many instances when the CI's conduct was inexcusable yet Brown reports it drily without comment.
BTW, the Belzers went ballistic in the last Or Hatozofen because Brown reported on the ambivalent relationship between RA and the CI. OH tried to gloss it over but the truth is that the two were chalk and cheese. RA was mizrachi inclined idealogically and anything by chareidi while the CI almost singlehandedly created the creed and defined its parameters.
ende,
"There are many instances when the CI's conduct was inexcusable"
HUH? can you please explain?!
Well, if you've read the book it is in the CI's disdain for Rav Kook, his disregard for the rule of, zionist, law in his extension in his apartment, calling on PA"I to violate a coalition agreement offering to take responsibility for the breach, arrogance towards non-chareidim and distancing himself from PA"I, his disrespect for tradition in the formulation of new shiurim hardly known of until then, his scorn for consensus as when he sent his novel ruling on time zones before the that of the majority.
As I said he almost single handedly shaped what we now know as chareidim and reading the book shows you to a great degree why we're in the mess we're in.
Ende Tsadik,
If you are froom today, is because of the CI ZAL. If not gdilim like him, Reb Aron KOTLER, Satmar Roov etc. yidishket all over the world would look like Russia today.
Russian, besides being historically incorrect it is also nonsensical as in case you are not aware Russia is what it is because until 20 years ago the authroities prevented you being frum.
But since you must perhaps we should put it this way. If you are a ben torah with no prospects of holding down a job you should thank the CI. If you are a satmarer and are predisposed to violence you should thank Reb Yoilish. If you lost parents and grandparent in the Holocaust and feel aggrieved at the lack of a suitable day of mourning, again thank the CI. Thank him too if the tsedoke pamphlets make you retch for it is he who articulated the nonsense we call da'as torah.
Ende Tsadik,
Are you in a different time zone?:)
I like your Shabos zmanim...
Please do not teach me about Russia, dear.
Russia was messed up already before the revolution especially Lite, comunists just finished the job that was started by maskilim and kalim.
I happened to be a small business owner, and i work since my chasune and i completely disagree with the todays shite of not working or so called "ben teire"(i had finished shas once already, and can not figure out what that means:)- i thought every yid is a ben toire).
Just the way i work, is that CI was a big person, and me not going in his drochim, does not make him smaller or incorrect.All or most of Rebbes were against that shite anyway, so, whatever...
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