No, this is not a personal attack against Rabbi Hertz Frankel. It is what you might call simple question that comes to mind when you read his weekly article in Ami magazine. It may have reached the climax - or low point - depending on how you look at it, this week, with the bombastic headline you see here. In honor of 21 Kislev we were all told that we all owe a great deal of gratitude, and we're forever indebted to the Satmar Rov. That were it not for him we'd all still look like we did in the 40s, the 1940s, that is, and we'd eat Hershey's chocolate and Entenmann's cakes. Our wives would not wear sheitlech, even our Roshei Yeshiva's wives, and our daughters would go to mixed beaches. Shtreimlach? מאן דכר שמיה. Children speaking Yiddish? fugedaboudit!!! We had RaSHBI in our midst and we never even knew it. So you might say that after seeing that article I had seen enough! I just wonder why RHF didn't send his own kids to that euphoria if he loved it so... Is this his opinion since when he worked there, אין בית רחל, or has this been happening to him only lately; this idea that it's all Satmar, and always has been/will be. I've read the series that RHF writes since its inception. Not every week, but often, as often as I see it, which is often. I try and buy the magazine every week when I do the grocery shopping. Until this week the series didn't garner any negative responses, at least we didn't get to see any. [Now, in this week's issue, one week after the issue discussed here, Ami went ahead and printed a letter to the editor which took RHF to task for printing what they saw as untruths. So it seems like I'm not the only one who sees the series what it's really for.
Question 2 is where does the editorial board - notably the published, Reb Yitzchok Frankfurter - stand with all the Satmar pushing that goes on EVERY, SINGLE, WEEK. No, I do not expect to see a PR piece from Lubavitch every week, and I would be surprised to see an Agudah/Torah U'mesorah/Chinuch Atzmai piece every week, Avi Shafran not withstanding. So why is Satmar allowed to have one that is repackaged as memoirs? At first glance it would seem that the reason is RYF's allegiance to Satmar, which is fine. His family is very close to the Rov there. I have no issues with it. I'm not here to call him out and to "expose" anything. That's not what I do here. But then we need to remove the mask. If all RHF has to say about his tenure in BR of Williamsburg is that the SR was the Savior to Yiddishkeit post-WW2, then don't make it about being principal. Then, if that wasn't enough, Frankfurter starts being all diplomatic and makes sure to plug both Satmars. As if. C'mon, don't insult our intelligence, brother! If you want your magazine to be a cut above don't talk down to us. Otherwise you're no better than the others, and we know that if that were the case there'd be no need for Ami in the first place, right?
Pages 84-87- Ami-issue 50.Rabbi Hertz Frankel
69 comments:
"We had RaSHBI in our midst and we never even knew it"
most people knew it, only the lubabs didn't. Then again how could the satmar rebbe be so great, we can only have one nasi?navi hador.
Shayfaleh,
What's bothering you so much?
EVEN, if Frankel is pr'ing Satmar, isn't Lubavitch from top to bottom a big pr propaganda machine?
What's good for the Lubavitch goose is good for the gander...
And by the way, you mentioned cynically, that supposedly if not for Satmar nobody would speak Yiddish, didn't you??
So let's see, what would you be speaking if not for Satmar??You are the first native Yiddish speaker in your family and that's because of Satmar!Yiddish is dead in Lubavitch and by the Lutvisher.Elsewhere is would be on life support
Satmar is the first unabashed chasidic group in America, unashamed of their dress or language.That is a fact.
You my friend are just an imfarginner and jealous of Hertz Frankels interesting memoirs.
Your lack of depth also makes you miss the point that the Satmar Ruv was mature in his views and did not think that everyone had to go to hisyeashivas or learn his "teiras hachasides" he knew there were other paths.Frankel chose to send his kids to a different path.
Grow up a bit and stop throwing your absurd hissy fits when people don't kiss up enough to Lubavitch, where half the oylem there is off the wall.
Peace.
(I remember you giving your reasons for becoming Lubavitch:The Rebbeim,( none of whom you knew and you only read p.r pieces about) and the niggunim (which ,sorry to say pale in comparison to the Beatles or even Shlomo Carlebach)
"The same held true with respect toZionism. It used to be that someone whosaid he was an anti-Zionist was ostra-cized. Today, the Rebbe’s philosophy is sorenowned, accepted, and understood"
-Except by Ger,Lubavitch,Visnitz,Kloizenberg,Belz and 95% of the Yeshiveh world who take money from the Israeli govt.99.9% of the bnei torah sefaradim are Zionists in the true political sense of the word.Even the Skverer from shikun Skver goes to the Kosel and Hevron.So it's a little propaganda piece-what else is new?The good news is that along with new low calorie Lubavitch there is also diet-Satmar available in two deliciously refreshing flavors.The diet stuff,thankfully, just doesn't taste like the "real thing" of days gone by which had that old Ingarisher bitterer aftertaste..."
Only Lubavitch are allowed to promote themselves as saving the Jewish world, with the "America iz nisht andersh".The reality is that Lubavitch could not even save Crown Heights from becoming a high crime ghetto with all the non Lubavs leaving and the only way Lubavitch grows is by poaching lost souls(and many times meshigeh) away from other frum groups
Nice peace. Just why can't you articulate what is really bothering you about the articles?
same reason I didn't write for a few days. lack of time.
R' Hirshl, iker chosar min hasefer. Ami's USP is its supposed radicallism of which chasidim in general and Satmar in particular are its main threat in bringing it all to an abrupt halt. So they are thrown a bone by way of interviews with Soshe, this article, an article on Toldos Aharon, a favorable interview with Skver after the attempted arson and likewise. The hope must be that they'll leave Ami alone to steal more market share from Mishpacha.
Azoi shver is tsi farshtein?
surprised at you "follow the money"
and all questions will be answered!
are you aware who is funding Ami? do your research!
Hershel, As one of the thousands who did not attend neither of the armories it seems from the pictures that not the aronis nor the zalis miss you a bit and for that matter don't care a bit about anything that was said in Lubavitch for the last hundred years,
Some of us might feel your pain that you switched out to a zombi leaderless society and need therapy how to express your frustrations , but most of us when dancing on cuf alef kislev
are also chanting "Loi Mihem V'Loi MeHamoinum" and pointing towards 770 when humming V'Heim Kulim MeiLeihen
and this what kvetching you, but ashamed to admit
can someone please remind me at what occasion did the rebbe say
Loi Mihem V'Loi MeHamoinum"
I see nobody has anything to say on the TOPIC at hand. All you can do is bash me and Lubavitch. nu, nu.
Lo meheim was said after the rescue opration at Entebbe.It was one of the Rebbe's finest moments.
klainer said...
Lo meheim was said after the rescue opration at Entebbe.It was one of the Rebbe's finest moments.
klainer , Can you explain what was fine ? and in comparison to what was it the finest ?
If Ami is printing this series to attract Satmar readership, they aren't succeeding.
Recently a Kol Koreh was published against the Mishpacha, Binah and Ami magazines from the very camp they are trying to appeal to.
HT,
this is the same rehashed stuff vos vert shoin ekeldik. the satmar defenders having nothing to say attack the Rebbe, and the lubabs shoot back. lets have a nice post about bet shemesh and how someone can spit on an 8 yo kid. I got the unvarnished version of how this mess developed, and it's not pretty. there's plenty of blame to go around, but IMHO nothing is an excuse for attacking a kid.
how? very simple. even a quack like myself can answer that.
Dov
"Only Lubavitch are allowed to promote themselves as saving the Jewish world, with the "America iz nisht andersh".
it is a fact that RY"Y of Lubavich came to this shores and worked with new souls. the Satmar ruv worked with hungarian jews that came from europe,He was very good to fight on other peoples turf, and beat them up Ad sheyomer Rotze Ani,
You can curse Lubavich biz in viesen tog, but the SR, did not do 1 Yoker Mozolel
From scratch,
He did not built shechita,
He did not built torah,
He did not built Kosher wine,
he did not built cholev Yisroel
He did not do the first Mikveh in willi.
He did not make the first Hand Matzo bakery.
He did not make the first chasidic camp
He did not make the first Girls school
I saw lately in the zali torah journal Ginas Verodim, that the Payer Ruv, his first Hoiz Bocher, writes in his Zichroinois,Satmar ruv had a very small crowd till the hungarians jews arrived from euorope, he had no influence on american Jewry.
shulem
"isn't Lubavitch from top to bottom a big pr propaganda machine?"
How many weeklies does Satmar have on a weekly bases,
writing Dem Rebbens Kumen Kien Amerika...
How many volumes is the hagography of the Rebinie Hakodeh..Divrie Yoel, is Gelbmn up to 55 already?
It looks hie is aiming for it
How many volumes is the Moshe Houo Roeh, of the Rebinie hakodesh Vehatohar baal Birech Moshe? 6? 7?
a little write up on a Vesien Tal uMotor placard would be already a guzma on that great Jew.
Anon.
"Recently a Kol Koreh was published against the Mishpacha, Binah"
I saw in the I velt( A satmar Yidishister Veb Zietel) , a discussion about the Binah, that it has too much zionisim in the recepie for Shavouth delkelech, and we hiemeshe yiden should refrain from buying it, even tought (as 1 of the writers said)my wife gets a good boost by reading it after a full days work.
Bt who affords to eat cheese cake that is infested with zionisim..
The ahava rabba nigun will not work even with the talith till the navel.
Speaking about numbers. When the Satmer Ruv first arrived at the shores of the land of the free and the home of the brave his achsanya was at the house on the corner of Kingston and President in CH,now known as Machne Yisroel house, headquarters of Tzivos Hashem.Who the owner of the house was at that point is now shrouded in the mists of history.I'm sure that if some inquisitive individual would take the time to do some research he could ascertain who the owner was at that time.
Being that there was no minyan available for the Ruv to daven Mincha, a call was made to 770 with the request for ten bochurim to be sent.Some of those original ten American bochurim are no longer with us and the remaining few are what one would call eltere chasidim.When davining was over the bochurim approached the Ruv and shmused in learning for a while at the end of which they asked for a brocha.The Ruv looked at them with a smile and replied "zats gezint in lerents flasig".
Lozmirup is right. There is a lot going on besides Satmar and Yoely Roth.It's time to change the stale water.
dov 10:15 pm "SR, did not do 1 Yoker Mozolel"
He certainly didn't do you! On second thought maybe he did...
A talmid of the late zelimar ruv reb levi yitzchok z"l told me he heard once from the ruv that "he was the first to introduce cholev yisruel in america - but, SR was the one who made people drink it!"
his achsanya was at the house on the corner of Kingston and President in CH,
who was the then owner ?
ok tzig, put on your yechi kipah and "feif uf di velt"
I don't have a Yechi kipah, all I have is this Hirshel Tzig Kappel
Anon3 is fabricating history
Dr Harry Berman had his medical practice at 1408 President st, Dr Berman was an expert on tuberculosis ,the Satmer Rebbe went there for a Check Up, the Dr advised the rebbe that he will not rush for he will get him a minyen from the street,
this part i know but the Flasig lernen i will leave for the Circus Tent
dov 10:15 : “You can curse Lubavich biz in viesen tog, but the SR, did not do 1 Yoker Mozolel From scratch,
He did not built shechita,
He did not built torah,
He did not built Kosher wine,
he did not built cholev Yisroel
He did not do the first Mikveh in willi.
He did not make the first Hand Matzo bakery.
He did not make the first chasidic camp
He did not make the first Girls school”
Just curious until the late 60’s! Did lubab do (or use) any of the above?!
Anon 9:00:00 AM : his achsanya was at the house on the corner of Kingston and President in CH, who was the then owner ?
Maybe, Feish moskowitz family, who was the rosh hakul in Satmar Rumania before WWII, lived in CH his house (for a period of days) was the first place SR lived in America
tzig: 5:30: "all I have is this Hirshel Tzig Kappel"
Is that the one you wearing in the Preamble homepage picture?
what means "preamble?'
tzig: what means "preamble?'
It's on the website homepage, on the top where your logo and picture with the 'statement' describing the purpose of the site !
there's a yarmulka there?
tzig: "there's a yarmulka there?"
he seems to be a frum boy wears a dajik (lubabs sometimes wear) I assume he has a yarmulka underneath it to no?
A talmid of the late zelimar ruv reb levi yitzchok z"l told me he heard once from the ruv that "he was the first to introduce cholev yisruel in america - but, SR was the one who made people drink it!"
And this is also a Satmare maisele.
ah, yes. I'm not sure he had the Yarmulka already when the pic was drawn. I may have bought it later
tzig: "I may have bought it later"
pre Tuvia's or after ?
I bough it @ Tuvia's, yes. But I'm not sure when the picture was drawn. Is Tuvia's around for that long?
anon: "And this is also a Satmare maisele."
do you have a gag on Satmare maiselec ?, No I heared it from my great uncle a zelimer gaby at the time he heared it from the ruv himself. will that do?
tzig: "Tuvia's around for that long?"
SR said once todays children think they are smarter than their parents, if old age wouldn't of be a shameful thing,they would of say they are older to! shh.. I wasn't in that area for over 20 years.
Shulem: Your lack of depth also makes you miss the point that the Satmar Ruv was mature in his views and did not think that everyone had to go to hisyeashivas or learn his "teiras hachasides" he knew there were other paths.Frankel chose to send his kids to a different path.
uh huh... He did not think everyone has to go in his path. Surrrre! He was very tolerant, the Rebbe. Dintcha know? Yeah, he even took Hertz Frankel, A FREMDER, for the girl school! Can you believe it?! Oh what a smart mature guy our Rebbe was. If only the rest were as smart and nature as he...
dov 10:15: "He did not built torah,"
1968 was the year SR leider got a stroke, at that time in his yeshivah their was over 600 talmidim, the SR came to the yeshivah around 5 days a week! and gave shirium himself, plus thousands of students in his cheder and school system! BMG/lakewood had around 100-150 married (not buchirim) 90%+ beardless talmidim learning in his kolel/yeshivah, not neccessary his talmidim (r’aron was busy building the agudah party in America – and the lubab rebbe was doing Ifuratztu) SR inspired his talmidim and many others to Torah & Mitzvaos, hence the renaissance of today’s bnei yeshivaous. If that's not torah building what is?
do you have a gag on Satmare maiselec ?, No I heared it from my great uncle a zelimer gaby at the time he heared it from the ruv himself. will that do?
Sir. I don't know who your Great Uncle is. Can you give me his initials please. Cholov Yisroel was eaten in Brooklyn before Satmar. Antshuldigt.
buba maises 12:20 said... "Cholov Yisroel was eaten in Brooklyn before Satmar. Antshuldigt."
I'm sure it was but produced for the masses like J&J under the hecsher of a competent ruv ? give me the name of it please mr buba masa?
anon 12:05: "he even took Hertz Frankel, A FREMDER, for the girl school! Can you believe it"
He employed HF reason #1 he was secular educated and could speak and write English! (Which was necessary for the schools English dept. no?) Barley anyone in his the SR circle could speak the language! #2 since he spoke English SR asked him to talk on of his early arranged protests against the atrocities of medians yisruel, HF was a member of the agudah shul in BP at that time, and someone smacked him in his face and they threw him out from shul for the chutzpah of obeying SR request! So SR gave him a job and took him under his wing! As the English school principal and as a liaison to the outside world!
I'm sure it was but produced for the masses like J&J under the hecsher of a competent ruv ? give me the name of it please mr buba masa?
Tatele:The milk was Balsam, then Kahal, under the hashgocho of the Tzelemer Ruv before Satmar showed up to drink it.
buba maises said...
"The milk was Balsam, then Kahal, under the hashgocho of the Tzelemer Ruv "
Indeed both are gone..(for lack odf customers) But J&J and Golden flor are still around .
"Anon3 is fabricating history"
Well we'll just have to chalk this up as another addition to the long list of anon3's "fabrications" and contributions to revisionist history.To prevent further acrimony he will have to defer to Gelbman Vol 25's "superior knowledge" of the alleged incident because he,'Gelbman",was alive and beim seichel when this incident took place as well as being an eye witness to the event as it really transpired.
anon3
your sarcasm is lost here
רעד קלאר און גיב זיי צו פארשטיין, ביטע
זיי ווייסן נישט אז איר זייט געווען דערביי
Anon
"He did not built shechita,
He did not built torah,
He did not built Kosher wine,
he did not built cholev Yisroel
He did not do the first Mikveh in willi.
He did not make the first Hand Matzo bakery.
He did not make the first chasidic camp
He did not make the first Girls school”
Just curious until the late 60’s! Did lubab do (or use) any of the above?!
Just to tame your raging curiosity,
They never claimed that they built all of the above.
But the 2 chabad rebiem, did not make a shechitah if there was a good shechita in town,eventough he wanted a shochet that is learning chabad chasiddus.But they definitly used the shechita that was in place, bu a famous hungarian ruv.
They built a chasidic yeshivah in 1940 for chasidic bocherim with full grown beards.
The had no problem with soda of Kirsch brand that was delivered by a Kosoner/Klausenburger Chosid.They did not go to events and claim that non Hiemishe soda is sticking out my eyes.
Anon
"and the lubab rebbe was doing Ifuratztu) SR inspired his talmidim and many others to Torah & Mitzvaos,"
is Ufaoratzto not torah umitzvahs,
Is Tefilin for every jew, not torah, is it Christianity?
Is Kosher Kitchen for every Jew, not torah,is it Christianity?
Is Tharas Mishpocha for every Jew, not Torah, is it Christianity?
Give me 1 of the LR that are not torah umitzvahs?
their is one difference,
The SR was looking out only for yiden from the hiemisher sanz sigeter cheder? the other Jews were usually the Erev Rav....and fodder for his ridicule..
The LR for any reason of his was looking out for Kol Asher Beshem Yisroel Yechuna
anon 1:15: "But the 2 chabad rebiem, did not make a shechitah if there was a good shechita in town," "But they definitly used the shechita that was in place, bu a famous hungarian ruv.'
Didn't your rebbe asked to boycut the good shcita! by the masse entaba! so the boycut wasn't for kashrus just for what?..
So NO! shcita, wine, milk, mikvah, bakery, camp, girl school, even he had buchrim with beards who needed all those things! and even lubab was here before satmar and had a yeshiva and of course Kirsch soda! because you rely on 'others' until entebe!!!
What a price they paid!!!
anon 1:25: "Is Tefilin for every jew, not torah, is it Christianity?
Is Kosher Kitchen for every Jew, not torah,is it Christianity?
Is Tharas Mishpocha for every Jew, not Torah, is it Christianity?
Give me 1 of the LR that are not torah umitzvahs?"
Sorry you had a point until you blew it with your raging sarcasm.
anon 1:25 "The LR for any reason of his was looking out for Kol Asher Beshem Yisroel Yechuna"
Like the matisyuhe's and the likes? "was looking out for Kol Asher Beshem Yisroel Yechuna" on till they didn't.
anon3 said "The Ruv looked at them with a smile and replied "zats gezint in lerents flasig".
I guess out of respect to the rebbe RYY ?
Anon
"Like the matisyuhe's and the likes? "was looking out for Kol Asher Beshem Yisroel Yechuna" on till they didn't."
I am too stupid,I am not getting your sarcasm, its too deep
Anon
"Didn't your rebbe asked to boycut the good shcita! by the masse entaba! so the boycut wasn't for kashrus just for what?.."
the Rebbe did not boycott no one, it was chasidim of a rebbe that were being maligned by a certain beis din, that were drinking their blood.You have to be crazy to eat from a shochet, that drinks your blood.
Anon
"even he had buchrim with beards who needed all those things!"
you are correct the bucherim with the beard, were eating the Tzelemer ruvs grape juice,wine,milk,bakeries...etc..
My Rebbe can beat up your Rebbe!
anon @12:30, I'm anon @12:05.
I was kidding. I know why SR took hertz frenkel.
I'm just saying, look at how tolerant Satmar is, look how they love another Jew, look how they don't make a fuss on taking R Mechel Silver to speak at their כ"א כסליו חינגא (*wink wink*). I wish the rest of klal yisrael were as living and tolerant as Satmar (WARNING: I'M SARCASTIC). -
Anon
"look how they don't make a fuss on taking R Mechel Silver to speak at their כ"א כסליו חינגא "
I heard that Reb Aron had a lot pressure to dump him for the speech. The remnants of the old guard, were uncomfortable with a Holech Lebechiruth, as the main speaker, by the annual Kastner train celebration.
"The Satmar rebbe does not belong exclusively to Satmar"
is the punchline of the article,but deep deep ttheir is a other meaning to this words.
Reb yoel Titelbaum never won the din torah on the Rabunas of satmar, the Afrekasta Deania of Brashoi, fled town and the the bies din a night before the pesak. He was scared of the wide brimmed Malacha Chabula .
So his rabunas was never certified by bies din. So technically he was always the Krular Ruv
"רעד קלאר און גיב זיי צו פארשטיין, ביטע
זיי ווייסן נישט אז איר זייט געווען דערבי"
You must be kidding.These guys don't want to be confused by the facts.Reality is meaningless to them.
"רעד קלאר און גיב זיי צו פארשטיין, ביטע
זיי ווייסן נישט אז איר זייט געווען דערביי
Hirshel stop fantasizing, the satmer rav came to the us 64 years ago add 13 years for someone to be bar mitzvad to be metaref to minyen thats minimum 77 , and blogging ???
"רעד קלאר און גיב זיי צו פארשטיין," ביטע
זיי ווייסן נישט אז איר זייט געווען דערביי
Hirshel stop fantasizing, the satmer rav came to the us 64 years ago add 13 years for someone to be bar mitzvad to be metaref to minyen thats minimum 77 , and blogging ???"
Hirshel
The above "educated statement"just reinforces my point that these guys don't want to be confused by the facts.Reality is meaningless to them.They must be currently teaching quantum physics and advanced calculus as part of their rigorous math curriculum at Satmar moisdes.With such "super intellect" I wonder if this individual can be,as he puts it so succinctly, "metaref" to a minyan.Perhaps he was never "bar mitzvad" either?
The greatest contribution of Satmar to Yiddishkeit was actually that of the Berach Moishe - it was the great segila
SHYGETZ AROSS
which when said with a minyan will bring about the redemption of several years' worth of expired food stamps.
Speaking of which...they wanted to name a street for the Berach Moishe in Willy.
Since there is already a Joel Teitelbaum Plaza, having a Moses Teitelbaum Plaza or Street would be too confusing.
Instead, they petitioned the city to change the name of Ross Street to Shygetz-A-Ross Street!
Der Shagetz
U probably heard the segula for a Makse Lieled?
to put a Birech Moshe under the pillow.... after 2 minutes its Shagetz arois..Mazel Tov
Tzig- This week's Ami edition has nice things to say about Chabad in two places. First R Franfurter in his editorial and then Yossi Krausz, in his article on media coverage of the frum community. It's time you apologized for your comments in this post. If you can't fargin Ami for writing nice things about Satmar too, you have no business preaching ahavas yisrael to anyone.
I fargin them very much and I've said nice things about Ami all the time. But Hertz Frankel's lies must be answered if they're at the expense of others!
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