Tuesday, December 25, 2012

The whole schism between Chabad and the rest of the (ultra) frum world - Was it all based on a misunderstanding???

In the world of "Yeshivishe hock" much has been said - and by now written as well - about the article(s) in HaKriah veHakedushoh that elicited very strong responses from Rabbinic personalities outside the Chabad world. Supposedly the Frierdige ליובאוויטשער Rebbe  כ"ק אדמו"ר רבי יוסף יצחק נ"ע was to have made "derogatory statements" about the study of גמרא. The truth is the articles were not written by the Rebbe, as is clear from the pen name here, but I he was "to blame" because the publication was under his auspices. Some people would tell you that this is what started the divide between Chabad and the rest of the Charedi world here in America, and by extension in Israel and the rest of the world too. Some of the notables that were supposedly irked by the article were RAK and Rav Shlomo Heiman, the latter asked RJBS to pen a response to the article, which was supposedly not to his liking anyway. This according to MOAG by R. Nosson Kamenecki. That would make sense, since Reb Yoshe Ber and the FR enjoyed a very good relationship...


מכתב חריף מהרה"ג ר' מרדכי ארי' האבערמאן ע"ה - קרעדיט להרוצה בעילום שמו
Rav Haberman was a great gaon and a Rov in Galicia and a dayan in Vienna before coming to New York in the 30's. IIRC he was a Belzer chossid. Here in the US he was Rov in Brownsville in the Rayim Ahuvim shtiebel, which, ironically, is now in Crown Heights... He threatens the editor of HaKveHa"K that if they do not desist from publishing articles like these he will have no choice but to publicly denounce them. I guess his Chassidishe background is what made him give them "another chance," whereas those who had an ax to grind even before the article...The letter is from his manuscripts and may have never actually been sent, but nevertheless makes for a good read. You might say that this too is a "פרסום ראשון".

?על מה יצא הקצף - I see not many of you read this....

ע"ד זהותו של א.י. סגל

קצת אודות הרב האבערמאן -  more

Thanks to Rabbi Shia Mondshein we now know that Aron Levitt had very little - if any knowledge of Chabad, its history or its torah/shittos! The fact that the journal was published "תחת הסכמת הרבי מליובאוויטש" not withstanding. The letter that we link to here - written by the chossid Reb Shaul Ber Zislin, ע"ה, illustrates that very nicely. Here's one paragraph in which he makes his point (for those who can't be bothered to read the whole thing...) אבל מדברי כב' יוצאת מסקנא שאיננה צודקת בהמציאות (פאקטיש). אני יכול להעיד, הישיבה הקדושה "תומכי תמימים" נתייסדה בעיקרה על היסודות הקדושות "חסידות חב"ד". בזמני למדו ועברו בהישיבה תלמידים למאות ב"ה, מופלגי תורה, למדו ש"ס ופוסקים, מפרשים, תשובות, ראשונים ואחרונים, התפלפלו הרבה ביניהם, גדולי התורה מהחסידים בחנו אותם, סמכו אותם, ולא שמענו ולא ראינו אף פעם שהתעסקו בשיטת לימוד כזה באיזה סוגיא בש"ס חמורה או קלה כמו שכב' מתאר. Reb Shaul Ber was גאון הגאונים and a Rov in several Russian cities before leaving for Israel in the 30's. What he's saying here is not just "damage control" and partisan politics. I assure you.

הגה"ח ר' שאול דובער זיסלין ע"ה

See more about the controversy here. In his talk with the Belzer Rebbe the Rebbe mentioned the fact that Reb Chaim Vital writes very strong words about he who learns המחליף פרה בחמור כפשוטו, and that FR said these words soon after his arrival to these shores. The Rebbe goes on to speak about the tummel that ensued and  that the FR clarified that he was only repeating the words of RCV.


snagville said...

His comments about the Gra and R' Chaim Volozhiner didnt help either.

shauly said...

And koyodua the F.R was not a talmid chochom on any stature close to the geonim you mention.This was another reason for the hisnadus.Even Chbdsker chasidim of the time, did not consider hima talmid chochom of stature, certainly not be'Nigleh, rather as a rebbe and baal mesirus nefesh.The chidush of the Rebbe his son in law was that he was also a tremendous talmid chochom

Benjy said...

Maybe it's all a mistake and Lubavitchers are normal?
Take a spin around 770
Read Bais Moshiach.
See how right the Misnagdem were

chaim said...

R'Hobermans kids (maybe grandkids) are unbelievable geonim and quite and humble.Chaim Berlin alumni

Yehuda said...

No offense but I see Lubavitchers as wierdos.I think they are mostly harmless,though

Anonymous said...

Shauly, a logician par exellence, makes assertions, backed by the "irrefutable" argument "Kayadua". And your source that the F.R. wasn't a talmid Chacham???

No source, of course.

Just because he didn't publish in Nigleh doesn't say anything to his geonus. Lo Rainu aino raya.

Kremenchuger said...

".Even Chbdsker chasidim of the time, did not consider hima talmid chochom of stature, certainly not be'Nigleh"
you think Chabadsker chasidim were having toughts, how much Nigleh there rebbe knows?
You dont know chassidim and chabad for sure not,

kremenchuger said...

".This was another reason for the hisnadus."
you think Reb Aron Kotlers other friends, as the Boyaner or the Kapishnitzer knew more Nigleh then the FR,

Anonymous said...

who says moshe rabaini was a talmid chuchem? did he leave over a sefer of chiddishim? only tora shebiksav which HKB"H wrote...

shauly said...

To all the Lubavitchers getting angry,
I did not say the F.R was not a talmid chochom, I said he was not on the stature in Nigleh at least,of the giants mentioned. Such geonus is impossible to hide.
Btw, there is some nigleh from him, including a teshuva on sefiras haomer that R'Raitport and R'Keller, try to understand in one of the Chabad publications

Kremenchuger said...

"To all the Lubavitchers getting angry,
I did not say the F.R was not a talmid chochom, I said he was not on the stature in Nigleh at least,of the giants mentioned. Such geonus is impossible to hide."
Nobody is angry, it is just that he was not the Rebbe of Chabad for his Nigleh, and all that was out there against him had noting to do with his stature in nigleh, and truthfully nobody knows how much he knew nigleh. But all the hate and hisnagdus against him was, because he had his own way of doing things and was not ready to yield for all the so called gedolim.

guest said...

to shaully

did you ever see the letters of the brisker rov to the friediker rebbe?

could be the brisker rov did not know what is to you yadua, maybe i do not know

Superintendant chalmers said...

Has anyone ever seen the response penned by Rav Soloveitchik? Tzig, have you seen it?

And Tzig, what's your source that Rav Shlomo Heiman didn't like Rav Soloveitchik's response? (The other details you mentioned are in MOAG, that detail is not as far as i recall)

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I saw it quoted in the name of MOAG. If it's not there I apologize.

Anonymous said...

How about someone analysing the "Goshen" concept in HkvHK

Was this Levitt making it up? I doubt it.