Wednesday, December 26, 2012

דער ליובאוויטשער בחור וועלכע האט צונומען הגאון ר' יחזקאל אבראמסקי'ס שיעור אין ליובאוויטש אויף פראבע

Shturem. A recent sefer published by the Plotkin family about their illustrious zeide gives us a glimpse into the life of HaGaon Reb Cheskel Abramski z"l. Funny how davka in Lubavitch did Rav Abramski get the respect he deserved, as he so eloquently puts it here. And wouldn't you know, such respect gets remembered for a very long time. Note: It was pointed out here that the story is NOT from RYA's handwriting, but rather from the memoirs of R' Chaikel Chanin, a Lubavitcher chossid, to whom RYA recounted the story.



34 comments:

yankel said...

Something doesn't smell right over here. Dayan Abramsky, according to those who knew him, would not have written in this style.
Anyway, I thought he ended up getting the job.
Maybe bizchus his respecting chabad, he was zoche to infringe on the chabad copyright on mesiras nefesh, and was arrested and sent to Siberia by the communists. Usually that was a privilege only for chassidei chabad.

menachem mendel said...

Untill i see the orignal handwritng of rav abramskis letter i wont belive it.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I wonder if when it comes to LHR and rechilus on Lubavitch b'shem gedolei yisroel, do you then also demand to see the handwriting? Or then some book is enough?

chuck said...

i must also voice my protest for the kavod of R' Chatzkel. This was not his writing style at all.

loshon tov said...

One word. WOW!

Kremenchuger said...

I think that this printed when Reb Yechezkel was alive and well in Eretz Yisroel,
Rav Abraramsky would have no problem to deny it in public, And if you will see the manuscript, will it change your view on anything? or your mind is made up already?

Kremenchuger said...

I just looked at Hebrewbooks on the first print of Rav Plotkins sefer, which was printed in 73, it does not have the letter of Rav Abramsky, I guess it was printed in some journal, to be found.

Anonymous said...

בוודאי שאין זה מכתבי ר' יחזקאל אברמסקי, רק בור בתחום זה יכול להעלות כך על הדעת אפילו לרגע. המקור הוא בזכרונות של ר' חייקיל חאנים כפי שנמסר בידי בנו ונדפס במגסין בית משיח

הנה לינק לקטע שבזכרונות

http://www.otzar.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6279

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I notice that neither I nor the Plotkins write that this was the writing of Reb Chezkel Abramski....

ולא באתי אלא להעיר/להאיר

Kremenchuger said...

In the 2nd volume Rav Plotkin has a piece om the subject of women shearing their hair down to the skin.
In the DP camps in Poking, I guess the melting pot was brewing, The Hungarians and the Lubavitchers were starting to notify the differences,it seems they were arguing against the Lubavitcher women who were not cutting their hair to Zero, by the Unterlander it is trief as Chazer So Rav Plotkin wrote a little article that when you learn the poskim you see that married women had hair.

moshe moshel said...

Its amazing to hear that in the DP camps, noshim tzidkaniyos started shaving their heads again after being forcibly shaved by the germans ym"sh.

shloime said...

they had to be forced by the Germans if they did it willingly all their lives??

Shearith Hapletah said...

Moshel
"Its amazing to hear that in the DP camps, noshim tzidkaniyos started shaving their heads again after being forcibly shaved by the germans ym"sh."
there are certain conservative people that acted after the war, as if noting dramatic happened to them, I guess its in the genes.

heshy said...

Tzig,
Can you PLEASE be clear.Who wrote the letter? If I understandcorrectly from you addendum, it was NOT written,By R'Chatzkel Abramsky, if so why is it it written in the first person?
I also think that some of it at the end is a bit strange.If a rosh yeshivasays a great shiur, and somebody manages to knock it down, is he not a great rosh yeshiva?

Also, R'Chatzkel was rosh yeshiva in a Chabad yeshiva in Russia.
Help clarify please

rebcharles said...

what kind of person would write

"hayisi kvar gaon me'fursam b'oilem HaYeshivas" ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Heshy

it's not a letter. It's RYA recounting a story that happened to him.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

what kind of person? what kind of person calls a bachur who asks a question on his shiur "Ah Terk?" That you do understand?

heshy said...

it's not a letter. It's RYA recounting a story that happened to him.

Where was it told?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

in Paris, to Chaikel Chanin, in 1951

ש. דזיגאן said...

להעיר: אין א בוך וואס איז ארויס אויף ר' אברמסקי (ברגע זה פרח מזכרוני שמו של הספר) ווערט די מעשה
:‏אויך געבראכט א אבער מיט א שינוי:

מען האט זיך ממש געבעטן ביי איהם ער זאל קומען ווערן ר"י אין ‏ליובאוויטש, און אז ער איז געקומען און געגעבן זיינע שיעורים, זיינען די בחורים אזוי נתפעל געווארען פון איהם ‏אז מהאט זיך נישט געקענט אפרייסען פון איהם אפילו נאכן סדר און פלעגן שמועסן מיט איהם אין לערנען, ביז ‏אז זיי האבען פארשפעטיקט צו חסידות. אויף דעם ארויף האט מען איהם פארטריבען פון ליובאוויטש..‏

אך, ווי שיין מקען פארדרייען א מעשה..‏

noson said...

Tzig,
please checkout this Telz 50 year jubilee link, especially around the 13th minute to see Rav Gifter, though suffering from ilness and not young, in his tremendous abilities to talk from the heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a1sgJzFka4

yankel said...

Saying something in the heat of the moment is not the same as a story being recounted.
I don't know where you get your hate from, but you are touching on the biggest aveira in the Torah (at least according to you): being a hater.

Kremenchuger said...

Dzigan
"אך, ווי שיין מקען פארדרייען א מעשה
the $64000 question who twisted the truth..

shimon said...

By the way, as the poster Dzigan relates, I too remember a mayseh that Rav Abramskys shiurim made the boyscome late to Chasides and the R'YY felt he had to let him go

An Ailemesher said...

Hirshel,

You lose your critical judgement when it comes to Lubavitch. How can you believe a bubbe maase like this?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ailimisher

which part of it is so unbelievable?

yechiel said...

Ailimisher,
Do you remember when Hirshel was "accusing" the fellow who wrote a very thorough book of R'Boruch Ber for not bringing a babbeh maaseh that R'Boruch Ber was named after the Mezritcher Magid?
As much as we tried to explain to him on what shvache grounds this hinner fees maaseh stood, he stood his shaky ground.(lately he alluded to the very shaky ground...)
Very difficult to discuss certain things with Lubavitchers.
I have never been able to figure out why.Is it because they have such shtarkeh negios and defensive mechanisms or is it that anyone attracted to Lubavitch is missing the "reality" screw.

אבי געזונט said...

"but rather from the memoirs of R' Chaikel Chanin, a Lubavitcher chossid, to whom RYA recounted the story." "ביז ‏אז זיי האבען פארשפעטיקט צו חסידות. אויף דעם ארויף האט מען איהם פארטריבען פון ליובאוויטש"
----------------------

אלו ואלו טויבער לאטצי באבע מעשיות,
.אבי געזונט




Anonymous said...

Reb Tzig

the recent book Melech Beyofyoi , and a much older book ( I think by Hanoch Teller) tell that RY"A became R"Y but was "removed" when bochurim came late for a chassidus shiur. He was then recommended as a Rov for the chassidishe community in ...

Do you have any definitive knowledge as to which is the truth?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Chassidishe comunity in where??

Anonymous said...

In Smolian.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ah, yes. Smolian. Reb Peretz's shtelle.

Shmuel said...

It would seem to me that if bochurim were to come late to chassidus because of RYA's shiurim, it would have been a golden opportunity for them be given lessons in kabolas ol and shmiras hazman etc. not to avoid the problem by dismissing RYA. That does not like something the rebbe Rashab or Rayatz would do.

OTOH Chanin's story seems a little far fetched to me as well. And I'm a lubavitcher.

Anonymous said...

and the maskono is......?