Wednesday, April 24, 2013
It's depressing to watch - these are our leaders and these are their solutions....
Watch it here, (for non-Youtube users)
The first depressing thing is that N Gottlieb is still on the warpath, not with blogs and such, but with clips and leitzim. It depresses you because who knows what he'll force these poor Rabbonim to do. Nobody wants to be left of this "historic" asifa; they think this is Mihalovic, 1866. Then there are the "brilliant" solutions that some of them offer ------ מה נאמר ומה נדבר, it's poshut embarrassing. But Gottlieb is persistent, he's terribly embarrassed that he even, nebach, has to speak about such lowly things at these meetings, but he's doing it for all of us, he's saving our generations. הצלת הדורות. Don't get me wrong, there's a problem and we need to deal with it, but it's not very reassuring to see what is being done. Maybe the Litvishe Rabbonim asifa will have better solutions. Let's hold our breath and see.
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37 comments:
Can you tell us English speakers what is being said?
Waiting for the FBI to check his own computer hard drive.
not sure, Eli, if I want you to know... וד"ל
@ 2:45 is that the Squarer Rebbe or his son
son
what does the Skverers son have to say?
that internet exposed for the whole universe, his families corruption, what the Blatt,Der yid, Hamodia did not cover
what does the Pupa Rebbe say? I cant decipher his profound toughts, deeper then deep
פאפאנע רבי צדיק הדור, סאטמארע רבי פלעינע, פלעינע, פלעינע צדיק
א יא? אזוי זינגט מען?
How apt your term depressing is.
It is so on many levels. These meetings show the bankruptcy of Charedi leadership. Especially at a time when anybody with an internet connection can see how the other religions meet and organize.
Even the Agudah (U.S.) itself would never have a Moetzes meeting with underlings in the room; it is scandalous and embarrassing. And of course not the Reform or the Conservatives. Did anybody follow the Chashmanim in the Vatican how they meet and decide?
גלה כבוד מישראל
The truth is that those Rabbonim have no clue on what the issues are and the real implications of what the internet has wrought on the Charedi community. While we all agree that there are real dangersת there are in truth, also real needs and benefits both spiritual and material that are derived from access to the internet.
Such an issue needs to be studied and dealt with by these very Rabbonim who represent a huge chunk of contemporary Charedi society. But when most of these leaders are in there positions by accident of birth (both litvish and chasidish) they are forced to rely on underlings who advise them and are the real force who conduct these meetings.
A huge amount of time is invested in who gets to be invited and why. Some are invited for the large representation of their Kehilos, others for the their prestige. So it is an endless political game of Kavod and standing who gets to be invited and how the seating arrangements will look for the pictures that will be released.
The readers of "kol Haolam" will examine the pics like the NY Times examined pictures of the reviewing stand of the Soviet Politburo after the May Day parade of nuclear missiles.
All this while the house of Klal Yisrael is burning.
These underlings are very good in insuring that their "rebbe"s standing should not be deflated, but have no sense of achrayus, no sense of history, no sense of the klal, just your typical gabaim who know how to land a punch (verbal and real)
So when viewing the clip you are actually not looking at the right people who are puling the strings and make the decisions on who shall be accepted in what school under what conditions. Its the people who are standing who prepped them on what to say, holding their breath that their horse in the race...achem opps Rebbe, shouldn't create a faux pas (French,for "false step" on camera (who do think ordered and invited JDN to bring you the holy clip?).
There is only one person who really knows deeply what is going on and it is Nechemya Gottlieb. He really has a grasp on the problem. If you listen to his speeches he understands the issues on a level of any social science professor studying the effects of the internet.
It is the work of Satan that such a person turns out to be bereft of middos and derech eretz. He has zero power of persuasion [I mean to turn hearts to teshuva and tikun hamaasim] but has the Machiavellian talent of a grand manipulator. In the run up to the asifa last year he had a complete chart of all Rabonim and the connections they have with each other.
"so if we get this Rebbe to sign up, we can get the Hotzenplotzer Rebbe too since he is very close to him and their wives are best friends." That kind of stuff; in a complete excel spread sheet!
Notice that there is nobody chairing this meeting? Who gets to talk? That is because it is all pre planned (you know by whom if not, read again the above)
Instead of bringing honor to Charedi leadership these meetings and the way they are organized is demoralizing for average charedim.
ומי יודע
Where this is leading to.
Hashem Yerachem.
Tzig, it "is" depressing!
Yosef 718
Hershel,
i feel your pain (depression) you left your families congregational background with the belief that chabads stand in yiddishkeit is heigher (deeper?)than rest of the frum world , and litvacks will never influance the non lubavitch chasidim , and here you see someone from a litvish background addressing (semi) chsidisha rabunim
um, riiiight, that's what depresses me, that NG gets to make a fool of himself.
anyone would like to give a summary in english???
heshy,
take care of ur own farikteh meshiguem
after that come back
k?
lets see if the lybavitchers manage tjos years lag baomer parade without the yearly meshichist non meshixhist wars
duvy
I think the only solution would be that the Mosdois should build up a force, like the Boston Police, with machine guns and armored jeeps, and invade the parents houses with sudden raids.
whoever will not agree to this intimidation , his kids be expelled from the Mossad.
This is the only way, there is no other way, at the same token, they check for contaband, as Eyeliner,Red Pajamas,Breslover Seforim,Shtern,Wide Rimmed eyeglasses,Arizon Matzos, Chickens with non removed Tzumas Hagidin etc...
there will be a separate force for the Zali side,as Chaim Shia, and his father Yakov Yossele,(he boruch hashem has a cheder too )and a separate force for the Aroni side. Bobov would have their own, since he is goes on his own on everything(as his nice Yachad Van that does chesed for Galitzayaners only)
I realized there is no rep of Satmar Aroni faction.
They didn't want to come? or disinvited because he had the chutzpa not to come to the other event, but I see the bobover dayan there, eventough they did not participate.
Therey proobably involved Kissinger for such Hoch Politik
erev ros chodesh sivan in 18 ave. park, above all of us will be our gedolim including skulen rebbi`s son, r` shulim peasach langsam belz, and pupa rebbi...
Why Does Every Chasideshe Rebbe Need a Yuckel Standing Behind Him Like some type of Mafioso Gumba?
You think being mezalzel in people that thousand and thousands of Yidden look up to, will do any good?!
What's the purpose of this post?? What good will come out of this??
CYNISIM! KLIPAS AMOLEYK!
You maybe have chassidus, a whole system of belief that you can hold on to, maybe some of us have only one thing - someone they look up, their Manhig! Why take that away from them? whats the Schroroy here that you can tell Yotzo Heifseydo BiSchoroy?
achrayuss;
farkert! people here are very impressed with the Rebbes and with NG, so what problem is there with me posting the video?
How is Nechemia Gottlieb still around after all those stories about him when he had a school? Beating kids, making them lie on the floor and then standing on them to humiliate them.
I know he has mattisyahu salomon's (mechaber sefer "With Hearts Full of Love") support since he helps him with his dirty work in Lakewood but the guy got kicked out of his own school and is hated by many of the people having to do with the Asifa - what gives? I mean he doesn't seem very charismatic or inspiring.
Are people just scared of him?
The skverer said to invent a machine that will have a screen ..
and a radio and only kosher on it... I kid you not
You finish your paragraph with the words:
Let's hold our breath and see.
My request, please don't, we still need you around, make sure these are not your last words.
Achryus
their is no place written that if lots of people are part of your kehila, then the Manhig is a tzadik, and should not be criticized.
Chazal say in Shabos 139, that if you see a generation with lots of anguish (Tzoras)then check out the Dayonai Yisroel,since all Pironiyous that are in the world is the cause of the Dayonim.
BTW, Lipa also is a Manhig today....
I"m not sure why YOU as a Lubavitcher are so depressed.Lubavitch has a one way "relationship" with Heimishe yidden and it's basically attempts at convincing them to become Lubavitchers. like the lag baomer parade in Boro Park, The Chasidic library in Bp, Ginsbergs Gan Yisroel, boys and girls schools etc, etc.
These men are not your "leaders" and Lubavitchers have zero interest in what they have to say.The only reason you were up in arms at the last internet assifa at Citifield was the snub that lubabavitcher were not invited, although clearly they had no interest in going,( but that's besides the point)
So, as a (now) very lukewarm member of the BP chasidishe kehilla, I am quite depressed by the chasidic/chareidi movement.But what else is new??The whole chasidic movement has become a narrow minded, nepotistic and corrupt "movement", trapping their members in poverty of intellect and often,of a bakovediggeh means of support, since education is shunned and the few business savvy individuals who make it (by "all" means..veda"l) get to be treated with kid gloves and kuved for their money (so they ain't going anywhere...)This chasidic/chareidi movement really fears education,because the sheep will be sheeple no more.
What are the alternatives for a thinking person:
Well Chabad definitely not.It's a crazy (see the meshichists...) leaderless power hungry movement, with many of the chareidi problems, together with some exotic "ghetto" issues they picked up from thei kindly neighbors.
Carlebach was a light, but he is no more.
Rabbi Moshe Weinberger:Wonderful person, too much into "chsides" for me, but still some saving grace.
Some parts of the Litvishe world, who have not yet descended into following the chasidishe cultishness, and, yes, maybe Yeshiva University.They take learning very seriously, and actually get a serious college education.Maybe they are the future of Orthodoxy? I don't see how the heimishe can continue to much longer without collapsing under their own dead weight, Chabad days as part of the normative Judaism may be numbered, so who is left??
I know this may sound harsh, but this is the way I see it.I"d love to see what the oilem has to say, but I expect the usual primitive, hell and brimstone or stam narunes as "answers"
The new chassidus has brought us two verifiably deviant groups.Breslov and Lubavitch.By any objective measure, if you were not a heimishe yid, and these two groups were not yiddish, you"d say that they were nuts.I guess berd and payes cover up, but think a minute and you"ll see it.
Just wondering if they could make a special heimishe production, together with the box the Skverrer wants,that you just push a button and have babies.non more need for nushem
Yiddel
"So, as a (now) very lukewarm member of the BP chasidishe kehilla, I am quite depressed by the chasidic/chareidi movement.But what else is new??The whole chasidic movement has become a narrow minded, nepotistic and corrupt "movement", trapping their members in poverty of intellect and often,of a bakovediggeh means of support, since education is shunned and the few business savvy individuals who make it (by "all" means..veda"l) get to be treated with kid gloves and kuved for their money (so they ain't going anywhere...)This chasidic/chareidi movement really fears education,because the sheep will be sheeple no more.
What are the alternatives for a thinking person:"
I feel you pain, but you are getting dragged in to the talk, with no pragmatic thinking. Limiting secular education is not a Chasidic issue at all.All rebbes are pro secular education in order to get a good Job, obviously not in a Secular, free for all, everything goes atmosphere, but No Rebbe is against being a accountant or a psychologist,Therapist or attorney. All Rebbes in the USA(and most Rebbes in Israel too) have noting against going out in the secular world for jobs.
Your issue about Rebbe Mechabed Ashirim, it did not start in our days,it was worse before the war, and be realistic, without the rich who are willing to pour Millions for Tzedoka,we would not have all this buildings for Moisdois and no way to offer cheaper tuition which charadie Moisdois are charging. Dont think that the Rebbes are fond of the Rich, they hate them more then you hate them,the rich have large egos that the Rebbes are maneuvering to satisfy them.
Yiddel
".They take learning very seriously, and actually get a serious college education.Maybe they are the future of Orthodoxy?"
you live in a utopian La La Land, MO and Mizrachi are bygones.
They YU/MO world have not produced no Talmid chochem since RJBS of Boston or Rav goren... their torah is fluffy nonsense based on Charadie sources....
Shimy
" together with the box the Skverrer wants,that you just push a button and have babies.non more need for nushem"
what bad with cloning...
FYI,In Skver the Rebbe does not eat from food cooked by a female, so the women are really irrelevant, they are needed only for the Mitzva Tantz...which in Skver is the holiest Matzav.
Rabbonim meeting about Youtube uploaded to Youtube
The Problems In Bais Hatorah were Not Nechemya Gottlieb It was a 5th Grade Rebbe M.Y. Bursztyn who was There for 2 Years whom Rav Matisyou Had Thrown out of Lakewood so He went To Passaic Yeshiva Ktana where The Parents Had Him fired
Yiddel said...
I"m not sure why YOU as a Lubavitcher are so depressed.Lubavitch has a one way "relationship" with Heimishe yidden and it's basically attempts at convincing them to become Lubavitchers. like the lag baomer parade in Boro Park, The Chasidic library in Bp, Ginsbergs Gan Yisroel, boys and girls schools etc, etc."
u find it hard to believe, but the Rebbe taught us to care about every Jew, regardless of labels and dress. its very depressing to see a group of leaders that represent thousands of yidden and being farfired by der noz and most of them don't begin to understand the issues involved. this gottleib talks about websites that make fun of shiurim? didn't we all do that in yeshiva as well? the brisker shiur, the CI shiur, the AC noah shiur. it was the running joke. that's the problem with the internet? and they are all sitting nodding their heads because they have no idea of the depth of the challenge except let's assur it and everything will be wonderful. if they were real manhigim, each one should find someone in their kehilla who understands the internet well, and let him come up with takanos. instead we have (for lack of better word) a group of people who had the right sperm donor pretending like they are the fix-all for this challenge. och in vei to aza dor yosom.
in flatbush last year, they made a internet asifa that actually gave practical workable ideas to deal with it. i encourage everyone to watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02JHYQfgGY
"u find it hard to believe, but the Rebbe taught us to care about every Jew, regardless of labels and dress"
Why is that hard to believe?
Caring, however doesn't mean trying to make them into "lubavitchers", does it?
And since you are a Lubavitcher what was your opinion about the organizations set up to 'bring moshiach", who brainstormed with all kinds of interesting ideas.
Nuff about Lubavitch
Now about the frimmeh/heimishe:
But,as I"ve said the matzav of Chasidish/chareidi orthodoxy is tiff in der ........,
Realistic Yid,
"They YU/MO world have not produced no Talmid chochem since RJBS of Boston or Rav goren... their torah is fluffy nonsense based on Charadie sources."
This is simply not true, there are some very fine talmidei chachomim products of YU
Btw, R'JB Soloveichik, was not a product of Modern Orthodoxy, he came from a Brisker upbringing and R'Goren was a product of the than chareidi system,though I"m not sure why you chose him .
So going back to actual talmidim of Modern Orthodox establishments like YU and the yeshiva in Gush Etsiyon, headed by r'ahron lichtenstein has some very fine talmidei chachumim and many very fine baalei batim who learn and have respectable careers.
Yiddel
"And since you are a Lubavitcher what was your opinion about the organizations set up to 'bring moshiach", who brainstormed with all kinds of interesting ideas."
what is the problem with Bringing moshiach exactly??? does moshiach go on your nerves,,,
Yiddel
"So going back to actual talmidim of Modern Orthodox establishments like YU and the yeshiva in Gush Etsiyon, headed by r'ahron lichtenstein has some very fine talmidei chachumim and many very fine baalei batim who learn and have respectable careers."
I am looking for them left and right, and I havent find no real talmid chochem.....
these guys are clowns they are so far from this world they have no clue whats going on
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