Monday, May 27, 2013

a letter from the "אם הבנים שמחה" to the Munkatcher Rov defending "extravagances" of Rebbishe weddings...

A reader writes:

These pages are from sefer תל תלפיות printed in 5766/2006 at the occasion of the בר מצוה of the Munkatcher Rebbe's אייניקל. Rabbi Teichtel's excuse for the Munkatcher Rov making a big wedding could serve as an answer for the Belzer/Gorlitz/Dezh/Teichtel wedding, where Rabbi Teichtel's daughter is now a grandmother. [The mechutan's shver was the Gorlitzer Rebbe in Bnei Brak - hence, Gorlitz, and he is a grandson of a brother of the patriarch of the Dezher lineage, the מראה יחזקאל. - I would think that comparatively - based on what people had and didn't have in those Great Depression days - it was alot more extravagant than the Belzer wedding. - HT] I heard that by the בדחנות of the מצוה טאנץ they called the באבע the "אם הבנים שמחה" of this שמחה, that this is the זכות אבות. I guess that even בעלזא can not go official with the holy משנה שכיר... So back to the letter, the holy משנה שכיר couldn't come to the wedding, he had to watch the שוחטים, - which is a lesson in and of itself - so he flatters the holy רבי with the newspaper reports and gives him his 2 cents of what he answered the critics of the extravaganza mega חתונה. It seems the משנה שכיר was under the spell of his great Rebbe, who was the big גאון and בעל מקובל, which was obviously the reason why he didn't question his Rebbe's anti-Zionist/Agudah/Mizrach עסקנות, which was basically a קול קורא במדבר in that region and in that era. I'm not saying he was a Zionist, just saying that knocking Zionism wasn't accomplishing much.

See clip of the Munkatcher wedding at USHMM site



























27 comments:

efraim said...

http://www.munkatcherseforim.org/pdf/shonem/TAL%20TALPIOUS.pdf

Ende Tsadik said...

He may have changed his mind on this too just as he did in respect of other rebbishe conduct.

volvy said...

chsides is a most nepotistic and corrupt movement.it will collapse under it's own corrupt weight.
the grandiose chasunehs are just symptoms, as are the the added chimrehs, the fascination with blaming nushims levish and behaviour for all ills, insread of the frauds themselves.kataliban hoyini

As a side note one of the mishnehs suchirs daughters was recently nifter

Maskilim Buster said...

Volvy
"chsides is a most nepotistic and corrupt movement.it will collapse under it's own corrupt weight."
its your wishful thinking, chasidus is here to stay for the next century. the Belzer wedding, had close to 10.000 young head of families voluntarily paying money to get in to the tent, and were dancing for hours, just for the luck of aving being born to a Belzer mother.
There is a small group of outcasts as you and your ilk, who are day dreaming on some collapse.....

Chakever Rebbe said...

Ende Tzadik
"He may have changed his mind on this too just as he did in respect of other rebbishe conduct. "
you are wrong on reading the Holy Mishnas sucher, he never rejected chasidus and its customs.
He just writes that the circumstances of the shoah, would make even his Rebbe change his mind regarding Aliya and building Palestine. Hypothetically he is maybe correct, the SIL and a other Munkacher Talmid had the same view.

Bobov Chusid said...

belz with its tiny mud huts with its straw rooftops, muddy roads. belz of tochanged changed so much to the left.

bobov never ever would allow such vast amounts of money to be spend on a wedding. bobov always stayed its course.

skver (springvalley) also loves the camera.

Luksh said...

Two questions:

1) Would the Munkatsher Rebbe Zatza"l make a grandiose wedding even if he had Mosdos that were several months behind in paying their Rabayim/Teachers, as many Rebbes today do?

2) Would Munkatsher Rebbe Zatza"l stand by while Kollel Yungeleit without a penny to their names were pressured to borrow and scrape together money for airfare and lodging?

I doubt it.

There's no ראיה from what the משנת שכיר writes to the travesty and Chillul Hashem that goes on today.

Forty Fifter said...

Bobover Chisid
"bobov never ever would allow such vast amounts of money to be spend on a wedding. bobov always stayed its course."
Belz paid no ticker and whole were paid by chasidim, while Bobov in Bennet field paid tickets for every yerushalmi that can talk Hebrew with a galicyaner accent,they spent more money for just 9% chasidim

Chakever Rebbe said...

Luksh
"2) Would Munkatsher Rebbe Zatza"l stand by while Kollel Yungeleit without a penny to their names were pressured to borrow and scrape together money for airfare and lodging?

I doubt it.

There's no ראיה from what the משנת שכיר writes to the travesty and Chillul Hashem that goes on today."
you are naive,
their was more chilul hashem in the Alter Hiem and less empathy for the poor and downtrodden, get out of fantasy world

moshe moshel said...

Volvy,
R' Shlomke Zviller ztvk"l encouraged tumuling about tznius during ww2, as he considered it a great source of the gzeira.

Luksh said...

Chakever Rebbe writes:

"their was more chilul hashem in the Alter Hiem and less empathy for the poor and downtrodden, get out of fantasy world"

Of course there was - but not because of the actions of theMunkatscher Rebbe, the Baal Mishnas Socher or their ilk.

I think you totally missed my point.

I believe that what the משנה שכיר is saying is in essence what the Taz talks about in Y"D רמ"ו סק"ז, where he brings the concept of "גדלהו משל אחיו" - that worldly status symbols help the Tzaddik influence the masses to do good. Surely, the Munkatcher did exactly that - he used his status as a MEANS to do Hashem's will, to drive home the Halachic and Hashkafic matters that he understood to be crucial for his times.
Contrast that to those Rebbes who seem to be doing the exact opposite - they use status as and END, that often contradicts Hashem's will. I believe my last post points out some valid evidence that the priorities are out of whack: 1) If you mean Kovod Shomayim you'd pay YOUR EMPLOYEES first (don't compare that to "empathy for downtrodden") - you're Halachacilly obligated to pay YOUR workers! 2) If you mean Kovod Shmoyam you'd prioritize your Chassidim's budgeting and teach them the Rebbe's Kovod is NOT the one single thing that the world revolves around, but rather it too has to fit into the Chassids ability to serve Hashem and not spend sleepless nights worrying about paying the rent because of a shortfall caused by the latest wedding extravaganza!

volvy said...

"R' Shlomke Zviller ztvk"l encouraged tumuling about tznius during ww2, as he considered it a great source of the gzeira."

So?


I actually have a lot of respect for the Zviller Rebbe who was a boreiach min hakovved, unlike the hayntigeh banshakim.Still.

Maskilim Buster,
You are an ass, and gas ruach.

moshe moshel said...

So? Volvy, don't mach avek a dogesh on tznius in some kreizen. . .

Chakaver Rebbe said...

Luksh
"Of course there was - but not because of the actions of the Munkatscher Rebbe"
the Kovad of the Munkacher ruv is very holy by me he was a Goan and Kedoish Elyon, but to say what you are saying shows you have no idea what happened in the alter hiem. There was a very sad epoch in Munkach in the era of World war 1, when a Rebbe of out of town took residence in his town for a short period till the war ended. All hell broke loose, there was a lot of Mesira Paskevilim etc..... I am not taking sides, but please read and know your history before you hurl facts.
I am not affiliated with no chasidus of today, but I think that you are wrong that the Gadlayi Mishel Echovdoes does not apply to today. Elokim Yireh Lelievuv, so we can not judge the intentions of Rebbes of today, how far Leshem Shomaim their deeds are, also who cares. But take for instance a Rebbe as the Belzer, he is involved in the well being of his Kehila much more then any pre war Rebbe. No belzer chusid goes to sleep hungry, no belzer chusid end up with old moiden (girls) with gray hair, because there are no funds to marry off, no Belzer chusid ends up with his son with no yeshiva. In the Alte Hiem the situation was very dire. There were a lot of rich people but 90% would not spare a dime for a other Yid. Rebbes of today are managing their Kehilas with much more responsibility for the individual then in the Alte Hiem....
You can call it empire building,(a issue that was worse in the alte hiem too) or any other name but they are doing the right thing, and power has to be given to them in order they should be able to lead and to maneuver the Gevirim to give etc,,,,

Maskilim Buster said...

Volvy
"Maskilim Buster,
You are an ass, and gas ruach."

very well put....

volvy said...

I Think that the baal menagen of Belz,Breyer, is aneynikel of the Mishnas suchir and his mother, the daughter was just nifter.

Back to the ostentatious rebbishe chasunehs: ECKELHAFTIG.This and the sickening infighting between the various goons masquerading as rebbes and banshakim and the chsidic groups still managing to pump out more retatded fleisch goes to show what a retarded movement it is.Even the goon who ran away to Morocco because of his maasem from oilem haatsiles, is being defended by the the "big" mashpiim.
Or checkout thechabad videos of poichazim and reikim going around for kois shel brucha and dollars.
Bkitser, retardation

Maskilim Buster said...

Volvy
"Even the goon who ran away to Morocco because of his maasem from oilem haatsiles, is being defended by the the "big" mashpiim."
I am sorry to disappoint you, that so far the police arrested the Accuser for blackmailing....

Maskilim Buster said...

Volvy
" and the chsidic groups still managing to pump out more retatded fleisch goes to show what a retarded movement it is"
can you put some logic to this words?

Yanover said...

Volvy Ever read the holy Sefer Megaleh Temirim?

moshe moshel said...

What exactly did they serve for dinner at the munkatcher wedding? Nothing fancy I assure you.

The belzer too, simply owns a lot of fleish and what were witnessing is an awful lot of jealosy. As someone said about the biggest loser from the satmer fight being ger, because it went from being the second largest kehila to the third. Seeing belz now makes me wonder if they're bigger than ger though.

volvy said...

I"d love to read it but have not.
I don't know yesteryears chsidem, i know todays and they are a bunch of goon tl's and followers.
Lately we have the two brothers, brothers in law of heshy's friend around the corner.both these a goons are trying to outdo each other in tipshes, which is actually quite easy for them.most of their dumb diatribes are about "tsnies hanushem", with one a goon taking a page out of lubavvitch deification.

Perl would have a field day, if he was alive today

Number cruncher said...

Moshe
"The belzer too, simply owns a lot of fleish and what were witnessing is an awful lot of jealosy. As someone said about the biggest loser from the satmer fight being ger, because it went from being the second largest kehila to the third. Seeing belz now makes me wonder if they're bigger than ger though. "
I think that Ger has 10000 families in Israel only. Belz has maybe 4000 in Israel, but they have bigger centers in the USA and Europe

Maskilim Buster said...

Volvy
So far your writings are diatribe and rantings with no logic....

Anonymous said...

MASKILIM I DON'T NEED NOR WANT YOUR HAskumehs
tipshim like u are part of the problem


volf

Yanover said...

have you seen the gerrer chassuna videos from the big chasune in 2009?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQHHP_-iXzk

I was there. not so posh. their shul is a warehouse and there wasnt a seuda for everyone. in fact one bochur offered me half a grape from the rebbes teller.

i think that belz was so posh can be i part because of the simcha of beis belz having a new future rebbe becoming a chosson when for a while there was a question if belz will continue. Ger has a lot of possible heirs.

Gomel Dalim said...

Yanover
"I was there. not so posh. their shul is a warehouse and there wasnt a seuda for everyone. in fact one bochur offered me half a grape from the rebbes teller."
This is not a thing to be proud off, especially for a Rebbe a Multi Millionaire.

Unknown said...

forty fifter
my advice don't bash the original bobov (48) because you wouldn't want publication on the gadlus of your self proclaimed rebbe, and how much his FIL R Naftultcha needed and wanted this rabisteva! btw, how much is the rent for BYHS just for the show? because the entire crowd of 45 fits in the 49 bldg?
why aren't the staff being paid? where's all the money from tuition? where's the yerushe of R Naftultche n his Rebbetzin? money that could of pay all chovos+building a shul? should I continue?