Wednesday, April 26, 2006

Not the same anymore



27 years ago, when the previous Satmar Rov passed away, every Chassidic Jew in New York, and then some, made the trip to Monroe to attend the Levaya. He was the רבן של כל יוצאי אונגארן and was shown that "final respect". Since that time Satmar has grown ten-fold and yet the attendance at the Levaya wasn't half as much, proving once again that what? I'm not quite sure what it proves, but keeping a name doesn't guarantee you that people will see you as successor.

After the passing of RYT most Hungarian Jews realized אז זיי קענען מאכען שבת פאר זיך and no longer need to be subjects of Satmar, so they all basically distanced themselves, paying respects at Simchas and such, but not toeing the line. Satmar has become a shadow of what it once was, not in numbers, but in prestige. Without gloating too much over the infighting that should tear them apart, I think that it's safe to say that our brothers in Williamsburg need to take up sports or something, maybe that would let them take out their frustrations on a baseball and not on their fellow Jews......

19 comments:

Kurenitzer said...

Every Chassidic Jew attended the levaya ---- Of course no Chabad people were there and they are cetainly chassidim. I know the rebbe was no there . Was he represented by the Rashag or Hodakovs. I tend to doubt that.
So even in 1979 NOT ALL CHASSIDIM were at the levaya.

n said...

prestige previously? for what then ....and why not now?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Kurenitzer

האסט מיר געכאפט

I meant non-Chabad Chassidim. I guess i'm living in BP for too long.....

יוסף 718 said...

Hirshel I attended the Levayah you are right and even those who attended you could not sense a feeling of loss by those who did attend.

As for your hungarian comment to its kind of silly. As if virtually all litvishe yeshivas ignored RYT levaya. Which is not true.

But as it happens I also attended the Chabad Rebbe's levaya...having attended Reb Moshe Feinstein's levaya the Tzelemer Rav and the Spinker Rebbe Bobov Rebbe. I would say the Chabad levaya was the smallest of any 'godol' I attended. Not to speak of the 'carnival' atmosphere that took place during and after.

I would say people who live in Glass.. should not ....

tzibaleh said...

area code yosef, nobody is throwing stones, so just relax. the point is that satmar used to wield more influence in the times of RYT.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Yosef

nowhere did I mention or imply anything Litvishe not attending. As a matter of fact the Litvishe have a terrible inferiority complex when it comes to all things Satmar, something that was quite evident in the Yated's coverage this week. No stones were thrown.

Yudel732 said...

reb yankel miller once asked:
the son of the rebbe becomes a rebbe,
the son of the rov becomes a rov,
but why doesn't the son of a badchen become a badchen?
"Vyle ah badchen darf kennen"

tzibaleh said...

Reb? yankel miller? what's the reb for?

Yudel732 said...

Reb Tzibaleh what is your malfunction?Did he ever made you laugh? Thats the attention he needs.

Tzemach Atlas said...

I was at the levaya of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (took a shuttle plane from Boston). It appeared deserted. Nobody came except a sprinkling Boro Park yidden. I was shocked at the poor attendance.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Tzemach

we were all there, we know. What I'm speaking of here is the fact that the natural growth of things should've brought 10 times as many people to the funeral, not who had more people.

trotsky said...

The Satmar community is in a FAR, FAR better state than we Lubavitchers sadly are.
They can now decide from a choice of 2 or 3 new rebbes. Where we have zero.

From all reports Reb Aharon is a true manhig, lamdan and baal darshan of the highest standard. I have heard prominent Chasidic rabbonim say that there is no doubt that he is considered the biggest talmid chochom of any rebbe alive today. (Of course this refers to what is publicly known about rebbe's Torah knowledge.)

Reb Zalman is also no katla kanya -though I hear he does not have has his brother's dynamism. But he too has been a Rosh Yeshiva for over 20 years and is an excellent ball mechadesh - bederech Sziget. Also he has a son Reb Chaim Hersh who is currently Satmar Rav in Jerusalem who is held by all as tzaddik venechbe el hakeilim - of whom his grandfather said 'mein choshuvste einikel'. He already has followers there and no doubt in the future will be better known. I understand that even Reb Aharon's chassidim in Jerusalem revere him.

And let us not forget the 'derech hashlishi' Reb Chaim Shiyeh Halberstam the late rebbe's SIL who has been declared as Satmar-Monsey Rebbe. He is a Bobov/Sanz/Yismach-Moshe einikel who is very much beloved by all sectors of Monsey Jewry.

Now compare this to what we Chabadniks have??

We are a true rachmonus - with no leadership and little future prospects (except of course for our wonderful shlichim - who are the only ones continuing the rebbes holy works). We have dozens of our kids going off-derech monthly and there is nothing we seems capable of doing. Leadership will save Satmar but lack of leadership will decimate Lubavitch.

Hokosev Bedema

Anonymous said...

interesting where www.satmer.com takes you to....

Hirshel Tzig said...

Trotsky

It seems like Trotskyism is alive and well, namely in the form of self doubt and "grass-is-greener" syndrome.

Aron Teitelbaum is a maniacal egotistical fool who made more enemies in his tenure as Rabbi of Kiryas Joel than did any Rov in history. Just listen to this clip and tell me if a Talmid Chochom and Rebbe speaks like that.

As far as Zalmen goes, he's not the bad guy that his brother is, but a "mechadesh B'derech Siget"? puh-lease, his own die-hards won't even tell you that.

Satmar may look better on the outside, and for a monotypical society it may be, but you probably sit on the outside and look in, so it seems all rosey to you. It sure ain't.

Kurenitzer said...

Is Halberstam a rebbe in Monsey ? is that a fact ?

trotsky said...

Yes halberstam has been declared Satmar-Monsey rebbe.

AFAIK he is popular with many and has the signs of a true manhig.

BTW Tzig, "maniacal egotistical" - I used to hear exactly the same description of the Rebbe.
A rebbe has to have some of that in him. As for enemies, did the Rebbe have any less???

Anonymous said...

p.s. Rabbi Lipa Teitelbaum, the third son of the previous Satmar Rebbe, was coronated as Zenta Rebbe, by the followers of Rabbi Zalman Leib, so there are four new Rebbes from Satmar.

Kurenitzer said...

Hold on !!!You are confusing appointments as rav with the position of rebbe. Even amongst Hungarian and Galitzianer chassidim not all rabbonim are also rebbe's . For example the Zelemer rav was not a rebbe. the Bilgroyer rav brother of the Belzer was not a rebbe,and Pashkovitzer rav brother of the Bobover was not a rebbe.
Granted that at times the jobs are difficult to clearly define. But it is clear that the Monsey rav was chosen as rav not rebbe and that Lipa was chosen as rav of a Bm called berech Moshe and is now known as the zenter rav. Both these appointments were made in order to make Zalmen leib leader of a whole group of smaller rabbonim etc . these are his sattelites . the Stoliner rbbe made his brother Yochonon Lutzker rebbe for the same reason.
In addition both Lipe and R. Yoshe haim needed to be apid back for their unwavering support of Zalmen leib.

Anonymous said...

Kurenitzer

I beg to differ on the Loytzker. His mother had something to do with it, and he was bitten by the Rebbe bug as well. There is no satellite network in Stolin like there is in Satmar.