Sunday, June 11, 2006

MIA or just not interested?



בהמשך to the Agudah post I asked a Lubavitcher קנאי why the Agudah is always in his crosshairs, yet Satmar, a seemingly more inviting target, is hardly ever mentioned?

His answer? The riots of '91.

I was away in Yeshivah camp and was unaware of what was going on in Crown Heights at the time, but he was there, with a house full of young kids right in middle of the action.

"Satmar came to help". While everybody else was nowhere to be found, Satmar came to Crown Heights and offered assistance, Moshe Sherer was in the Catskills doing laps in the pool.

Reasons they did not offer help may include but are not limited to:

1) this was not in their job description either, they only offer assistance to Chadorim, Yeshivos, and Bais Yaakovs.

2) They were busy planning the exciting upcoming convention.

3) Yarchei Kalloh in Lakewood was happening that week.


What our friend doesn't know is that Chachomim like Rabbi Lazer Ginsberg of the Mirrer Yeshiva and Agudah had the answers, supplied directly by the Heavenly Court, as to why the riots were happening. "They think that Moshiach is here already, so G-d showed them that they're still in Golus."

נו, וואס דארף מען ריידען בגנותן של ישרא-ל

20 comments:

Vaboylniker Chossid said...

"They think that Moshiach is here already, so G-d showed them that they're still in Golus."

Impressive and thought provoking vort there. A dank.

"Satmar came to help". While everybody else was nowhere to be found, Satmar came to Crown Heights and offered assistance, Moshe Sherer was in the Catskills doing laps in the pool. "

What did Satmar do ? Send thousands of Chassidim marching up Bedford Avenue to CH ? Maybe R. Sherer was in Eretz Yisroel or out of town ? Did you friend see him lounging poolside upstate all day ??

berl, crown heights said...

"They think that Moshiach is here already, so G-d showed them that they're still in Golus."

In moments like this I find being a Lubavitcher very, shall we say, constricting. Oh well... But I do know that I am not allowed to say what’s on my mind right now. I really shouldn’t even think it...

Hirshel Tzig said...

vaboylniker
the vort is not what Satmar did and whether or not Sherer was here. The Point is that Satmar האט זיך פאראינטערעסירט, they at least showed concern about the plight of their brethren in CH. If Sherer was in EY there were others that could've taken his place in making statements to the press, etc. Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, a capable young attorney, comes to mind.

"Doing laps by the pool" was a figure of speech.

Camp Runamok said...

> The Point is that Satmar...at
> least showed concern
> about the plight of their
> brethren in CH.

OTOH, "concern" and $2 will get you on the subway. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not recall any "chaptzem" gangs patrolling Kingston Avenue during those days; which is exactly what the situation required while NYPD was sitting on its collective tuchus.

zezmir said...

Every group & kehilla has a political element, however, Aguda is a purely political org. not a Chassidic group, Kehilla or neighborhood. As such, they don't represent anything other than their agenda, which does not include Lubavitch or CH.
But, I wonder, would CH have shown up in solidarity to support Williamsburg, Flatbush or BP in crisis?

Anonymous said...

Tzig, quit talking out of your mechilah, ok?
The fact of the matter is that Yankel Rosenbaum hy'd would have been alive and well if the powers that be in Crown Heights had done the very basics of seeing that he gets a halfway competent doctor to see him, instead the were busy, hiding in their bunkers and afterwards tried to make as much political hay that they could out of such a misfortune.
And what did the Rebbe, Shlit'a, who's motorcade and young immature chosid that thought that 'bagleiting' the Rebbe was important enough to go through a red light and cause pikuach nefesh have to say? Deafening silence,eh?!
(Although, I'm pretty sure the powers that be did not even tell the Rebbe about the whole murder and pogrom, so there is a good chance he had no idea what he caused)
Again you and your dumb side kick, Berl engage in your favorite pastime:Blaming others for everything Lubavitch should be blaming themselves for.
A sad irony:While supposedly the Rebbe was 'running' the whole wide world and supposedly his emmisaries were in every part of the globe a glaring failure of his was his own backyard-Crown('kan tzivo')Heights.He could not stop it from turning into a high crime slum.He could not get his own chassidim to purchase properties to stem the flight of other Jews.He could not stop the flight of all the other, normal Jews.......And than he made the biggest mistake of all:He stayed in the slum! Had he moved to Boro Park, he would have had it on a platter and without a question imho at least, become the dominant force in orthodox Jewry, dwarfing even Satmar!!Look at Bobov, a man with nothing even resembling the Rebbes erudition and charisma, look at the empire he built in Boro Park!
I guess, we the sane Jews, who did not succumb to this chasidic version of the galden calf, have to be eternally greatful to the one above from saving us from such a scary scenario.
Hirshel,you don't need to bother to post this, since it will probably cost you the readership of the many Lubab goons who come to read your party drawing blog, such as Berel, vekas diley.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Don't anybody ever, ever tell me that I censor comments.

Anonymous, you speak like a fool.

zezmir said...

Why not censor comments? Stupid comments kill conversations...

Camp Runamok said...

> Had he moved to Boro Park, he would have had it on a platter [gratuitous slam on Bobov sent to bit-bucket].

Someone came to the Rebbe once and said that he would have many times more chassidim if he would wear a shtreimel. The Rebbe asked from where would all the new chassidim come? The answer; from Satmar, Bobov, Karlin-Stolin, etc.

The Rebbe's reply was that Satmar, Bobov, Karlin-Stolin, etc. already have rebbeim and chassidus and don't need to come here. But what do I have to do to attract more chassidim from Hashomer Hatzair!?

Anonymous said...

"Yarchei Kalloh in Lakewood was happening that week"

Agudah wished they could step into lakewood.

Anonymous said...

Well, H, you let a fool bully you into posting his (yawn) "original" commnet... hey, I bet that is the offical Aguda response!

Hirshel Tzig said...

>Had he moved to Boro Park, he would have had it on a platter and without a question imho at least, become the dominant force in orthodox Jewry, dwarfing even Satmar!!<

I believe there was a Jew with a school in Lakewood that would've never allowed that, but maybe he would've been quieted.

Sinah said...

camp runamock, I highly doubt that story. The Rebbe built himeself without puting others down.

Hirshel Tzig said...

"In the know"

I don't like Spielman, but even I think you went too far with the accusations. He should've been the head of the CHJCC like I should run NASA.

Lubavitcher קנאי said...

The point of my finger-pointing was not to say that the Agudah could've necessarily done something to prevent the riots, but a little solidarity would've been nice.

There are those that say that "Lubavitch never acknowledged us, why should we?", that may be true but this was Pikuach Nefoshos, no time for some noble souls to take revenge for old grievances.

Satmar didn't "send thousands of men marching up Bedford Ave" but they made as if they cared, and that's what counts in a time of need.

Y.W. Editor said...

First of all let me let you know that I agree that the Agudah is a total joke and a waste of time. It gives a few rich fat overgrown Baalei Baatim what to do with themselves.
But allow me to make a point or two.

#1-"Moshe Sherer was in the Catskills doing laps in the pool."

I must tell you that that comment is completely out of line. This was a man who did more for "JEWS" is the USA then anyone that you know (or knew). He spent his ENTIRE yes E-N-T-I-R-E- life devoted to helping Yidden the world over. If it meant calling a US President, Israeli Prime Minister or the King of Morocco to help a Yid, then he did it.

I'm also wondering where Lubavitch was when a plane that was full of Yidden got hijacked?? I know that R' Moshe Sherer was on the phone for 3 days straight without any sleep until he secured the release of the hostages. (Read his personal diary - it's on sale in a Lubavitcher store, Eichlers.)

#2-"that Chachomim like Rabbi Lazer Ginsberg of the Mirrer Yeshiva and Agudah had the answers"

Please. Do yourself a favor. Everyone knows that he does not represent the Agudah nor does he represent the Mirrer Yeshiva at all. FACT. He is a "Rachmonis case" who says stupid things all the time, and gets the "honor" of Davening Maariv for the Amud at the Sium Hashas.

#3- I personally know quite a few Bochrim from the Mirrer Yeshiva who made the trek out to Crown Heights to help out. FACT.

#4-"They think that Moshiach is here already"

Uh....corrct me if I'm wrong. The one's that "think" that Moshiach is already here (or died already) are.........LUBABS!!!!

OUCH!!!
[Did that hurt?]

Hirshel Tzig said...

YeshivaWorld

you only reaffirmed my point. The fact that he was an עסקן and was on the phone for 3 days during the hijacking (although I'm not sure he could accomplish much, being that we were dealing with TERRORISTS) only magnifies the problem. WHY WAS HE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND DURING THE RIOTS? If they were happening in BP or Flatbush ח"ו would he not try everything in his power to stop it?

Vaboylniker Chossid said...

"#2-"that Chachomim like Rabbi Lazer Ginsberg of the Mirrer Yeshiva and Agudah had the answers"

Please. Do yourself a favor. Everyone knows that he does not represent the Agudah nor does he represent the Mirrer Yeshiva at all. FACT. He is a "Rachmonis case" who says stupid things all the time, and gets the "honor" of Davening Maariv for the Amud at the Sium Hashas."

I am moicheh on kovod haTayreh here ! REG is a fine talmid chochom and choshuve Yid. YW, reading your comments, I have my doubts about how mainstream Yeshivish you are yourself, with all due respect. Are you Litvish or some type of Ungarisher Litvak efsher ? I suspect B more than A.

Professor said...

A chosid living in CH at the time of the riots told me that satmar sent several busloads of their chevra to help and in fact was surprised at the irony that they seemed to be guarding 770.
can anyone confirm this?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Vaboylniker

does this mean you condone his alleged statements at the time?