For those of you that may not know, Gimmel Tamuz is the 25th Yohrtzeit of HaRav Reb Shneur Kotler, z"l, Rosh Yeshivah of BMG in Lakewood, and father/father-in-law of the four current Roshei Yeshivah. Believe it or not, I attended that Levaya in front of Yeshivah Toras Emes - Kamenitz in Boro Park, but that's for another time. As the above picture will tell there will a big gathering in Lakewood tonight in honor of this event. The guest speaker - rather the "Divrei Torah BeHalochoh VeAgodoh LeKoved HaSiyum" - wil be presented by the Satmar Rebbe from Kiryas Joel, Rabbi Aron Teitelbaum. This tidbit has raised many a eyebrow in the frum community, with many wondering how the Satmar Rebbe was chosen for this honor, and why Lakewood, with it's thousands of Talmidim of Reb Shneur had to reach so far as to find a speaker. If a suitable Talmid of Reb Shneur could not be found to speak in Halochoh on this night, surely one of elderly Roshei Yeshivah, the survivors of the Golden Age of Litvishe Yeshivos if you will, could've been found.
(Disgruntled Lakewooders make themselves be heard. Thanks to an anonymous friend for the pic)
The obvious culprit here, as the above electronic Pashkevil will attest to, is the current CEO of BMG Mr. Aron Kotler, son of the late Rosh Yeshivah. Mr. Kotler is the force behind BMG today, running a massive network of schools, Yeshivos, and sattelite Kolelim not to mention the preeminent Yeshivah in the world, and all the perks that provides. Why then would he need to get the KJ Satmar Rebbe to help his school? Simple: Money. It seems like RAT promised some big time money in exchange for the merit of speaking there on Gimmel Tammuz, and the "offer" was accepted without the Roshei Yeshivah really being consulted. His motives are somewhat unclear, although he has been on a quest to repair much of the damage done to the image of Satmar over the years. Serious Bnei Torah, many of whom have been living there for their whole adult lives and have grandchildren in Kolel, have just been exposed to the other side of BMG, the side where money talks and all else walk. They too wonder why such luminaries like as Rav Shmuel Berenbaum of Mir-Brooklyn, Rav Henoch Leibowitz of Yeshivah Chofetz Chaim, Rav Chaim Stein of Telshe-Cleveland, and Rav Chaim Epstein of Zichron Meilach-Brooklyn were not asked to speak at an event supposedly dedicated to the memory of the Rosh Yeshivah.......
86 comments:
YOU ARE WAY OFF!!! This has nothing to do with money, and you are a complete bastard for making !@#$% up like this.
Hirshel... you can be a very cynical guy.
ok, then what is it? why would he come speak there?
This is sooooooooo about money.
Puleeeeze.
Aron Kotler is a TRAITOR.
i'd like to know what this is about if it aint money.
r u seggesting that aron titlebaum has some sort of lomdus that the litvish roshei yeshivos don't have to offer?
I just got this link from a friend of mine.
I'm shocked that a lubab like yourself would post this.
It's actually quite strange that Satmar would have this gangster speak there.
This is the monster who sent his Chassidim on Simchas Torah with fire extinguishers into Zalman Leibs Bais Medrash to wreck havoc.
Guess the BMG Roshei Yeshivos now endorse violence.
This is quite strange......
Lakewood are "zionists".
Why would Satmar be parading around all proud of this.
Just one month ago they cursed out the newly opened Satmar meat store in Flatbush for advertising in the Yated - a ZIONIST newspaper.
Heck.
Yated = Lakewwod
Lakewood = Yated.
P'shat is:
Aon Kotlker = $$$$$$
Satmar = $$$$$$
$$$$$$ = Lakewood = $$$$$ = Satmar = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Aron Kotler will do anything to make a few bucks.
I have lost all respect for the Roshei Yeshiva in Lakewood
It's about time someone did this
Why did it have to be on an anti-litvish blog?
This is long overdue.
Two years ago it was the lakewood "home" auction, now it's satmar rebbe....
he's tha flavor of the day
Hey Tzig!
Guess what? The person introducing the Satmar Rebbe tonight is a LUBAVITCHER!!!!
His name is GRONER!
I'm serious!
Is it the Chaim Berliner Groner's son?
Why is this any surprise to anyone?
Aron K will do anything for a buck.
What a lowlife.
Your best post yet.
It is about time that someone has the guts to crack this fraud once and for all.
The Yungerleit are wimps.
In the olden days, they would have boycotted the event.
Rumor hs it that Satmar paid them to have him speak.
Like the previous commentators said, it's all about money.
Funny how a snag hater managed to tap in to the widespread feeling in Lakewood. To all those who claim it is not about $$$$; it 1000% is. I spoke to major insiders, who confirmed it. Although AT wanted more than what the yeshiva was willing to give. Watch AT host a parlor meeting for BMG in the near future in his house. You heard it hear first. What dose AT get out of this? Seems to me he is on a major PR campaign to be accepted as a gadol and ‘the Satmar rebbe’ throughout Klal Yisroel, in the hopes it will boost his standing in Satmar as he is now a ‘Velt Rebbe’ and “velt gadol’ etc. Anyway, I would not go to this event!?!
Why was the levayah in front of Toras Emes?
May too many unsupported accusations here. Tzig, what happened to your intellectual honesty?
******NEWSFLASH******
All Roshei Yeshiva arrived tonight with no hassel. Walking in through thousands of people shaking hands and smiling.
Everything going smooth.........
UNTIL.............
You guessed it!
Aron T shows up with his group of bouncers. They start pushing and screaming at everyone like Moshe Rabbeinu just walked in.
what a joke.
These jerks were pushing each other.
No one was pushing to see Satmar Rebbe.
What a filthy PR stunt.
I got so sick I went outside the tent, promptly vomited and went straight home.
Reporting live from the scene, Berel Sasoon - BMG NEWS.
that picture you got there is the product of photo editing, correct?
When will we get it that Lakewood is in it for the money and that our children's futures are being frittered away by the Lakewood/yeshivishe system?
Why would it be so amazing that you attended R'Shneours funeral 25 years ago?*
*Because you think that the readers of the blog think you are too young ,still in mesivta Oholei Teyreh?
*We know that you were not yet brainwashed with the Lubab kool aid at the time so it's no surprise.
BTW:Lakewood has always had a good relationship with Satmar.R'Yoel was maspid with the famous 'Aharon, melamed shloi shino'
About twenty years ago a Satmar chosid from London, R'Moshe Markowitz, donated a couple of million$ and was guest of honour at the Lakewood dinner.
R'A'Tteitelbaum happens to be a very good speaker and very charismatic, his chassidim in Williamsburg just bought a building for 16 mill and plan to put in many millions more to turn it into their cheyder.
bTW, R'Barnetsky one of the chairmen of the event is son of the fabulous melamed in the Lubavitcher yeshiva on Ocean Pkwy R'Avrohom Barnetsky z'l who passed away recently
Try selling something to Lakewood, Lubavitch or to Satmar. You see they are all the same. Hamayvin yovin.
Have a nice day
It is a positive thing when a chasiddisher rebbe is invited to speak at such an important event: it silences the mouths of those who say that it is a mitzva to hate chasiddim (and vice versa).
This builds on the goodwill generated by the Gerre Rebbe and Rav Shteinman travelling together.
I was at the event yesterday and I have to say that I am impressed with R'Aron Teitelbaum, he spoke for over an hour and he electrified the crowd, an amazing speaker and orator, he was the centerpiece of the event, I think the Kotler's knew very well what they need to do in order to create a Volcano in the Litvishe World, I didn't know until now that the Satmar Rebbe is the ONLY chassidish Rebbe who sits and learns a WHOLE day in yeshiva and learns torah unlike the other rebbe's, what an amazing speaker!!!
It was an amazing scene to watch yesterday as the Satmar Rebbe spoke to thousends of Litvish people with a fervor never seen by any chassidish luminary ever, I came away from this drosha a complete chossid of R'Aharon Teitelbaum, he is a tremendous Baal darshon and he took the Bnei Torah on new heights of what it means being a Ben Torah.
>>I have lost all respect for the Roshei Yeshiva in Lakewood
You have to have respect first, asswipe.
should the litvish world see that there is only ONE rabbi that is a godel and a big talmis chchem and a rosh yeshve
I didn't realize that it was Reb Avrohom Barnetzky's son, very nice indeed. Everything comes back to Lubavitch somehow, the Rosh Yeshiva's name, and the Chairman of the event too, and Noch on such an auspicious day!!!!
I realize that Reb Aron Ken gut lernen, but his style of presenting the shiur, unless he changed it for the evening, is not something the Oylem in Lakewood is used to. Not to mention that thick Satmarer accent he speaks with.
The Hesped of the Satmar Rov was 45 years ago, and I don't think there was much contact since, although I was told last night that the previous Sigeter/Satmarer Rebbe also once gave a shiur there, but I imagine that was on a MUCH smaller scale.
Sorry Tzig. I know this is the Lubavitch equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel: A Satmar Rebbe speaking for the Kotlers.
But any dinner organizer that wants to do well would be smart to choose an unconventional speaker. Satmar is a major presence in Lakewood, so it's not so difficult to see the connection. Lubavitch is no stranger to unconventional speakers or gusest of honor: Dershowitz, Jesse Helms etc.
Hershel, you are dead wrong with the style of speaking from Satmar Rebbe, he is unlike other chassidish speakers he speaks with a fervor and an amazing intelluctual ability unheard of in the entire chassidish world. and he proved it yesterday.
I'm not speaking of the intellect part, but of the BaalBatisher way that he speaks. He breaks down every shtikkel to little pieces, which is a very good thing when speaking to Baaleibatim and Bochurim. Maybe last night he was different, I haven't heard the speech.
Btw, did he mention the Baal HaYohrtzeit at all?
I posted my comment yesterday at the wrong thread so I am reposting it here now.
"Anonymous said...
While there may be something to what you write, limayseh, the idea is not that strange. After all, RAT's zeide was maspid RAK.
" Rav Shmuel Berenbaum of Mir-Brooklyn, Rav Henoch Leibowitz of Yeshivah Chofetz Chaim, Rav Chaim Stein of Telshe-Cleveland, and Rav Chaim Epstein of Zichron Meilach"
Were they particularly connected to the baal hayohrzeit ?
Recently RAT spoke at a large Litvishe Yeshiva in Far Rockaway too, by the way. But that is another story.
What is the reaction of the R. Zalman Leib side?"
T-T rightly corrected me that RYT was not RAT's zeide.
Btw, Hirshel, how was the Rabbi from 84th street in BP last night ?
And what did the noem hakovod, R. M.H. Hirsch, say at BMG ? How long did he speak ?
being a lakewood resident I was there to pay respect to the Rosh Hakolel.
all I can tell you guys; R'aron Teitelbaim is a Ruv a Rebbe and a great leader. yesterday the lakewood Olam saw something that can not be dismissed by some silly people here. who ever wrote that he vomitted last night, I think I saw him and he had a badge in the back of him saying I am a big ZALI.
this was a HUGE KIDUSH HASHEM that a Chasidishe Rebbe Ken Lernen
RAT spoke there because he went to raise money for his new Mosdos, and I'm sure that he offered his services there too. The difference is that it wasn't a major Yohrtzeit event, but rather a greener mitvoch.
The Rabbi from 84th Street was as advertised, absolutely amazing. He captivated the audience for the 15-20 minutes that he spoke. You could hear a pin drop. He looked a bit shvach, I heard that he fell recently and was just recovering. May he have a Refuah Sheleimah, and may Hashem give him many more Gezunte Yohren.
The fact that in Lakewood popular opinion was that a Chassidisher Rebbe ken nisht lernen shows one of two things
1) that Chassidim made that impression somehow. Maybe from the fact that all anybody ever sees them do is dance at weddings and wear colorful clothes and have lots of silver Keylim.
or
2) That Lakewood is a very prejudiced place that still thinks the way they did in 1775 in Vilna, namely that all Chassidim and their leaders are boors.
Just for the record. I went there from another part of NJ to see with my own eyes how a Satmer Rebbi will fit in to our Litvish world.
Reb aron T shlita was a major success last night, anyone who heard his speech yesterday was shocked. We never heard such kind of Divrei Torah combined with so much GeOines and knowledge, he was strong, without any hiccups or mistakes. The crowd was listening and jumping from Simchas Hatorah.
Blessed are his Chasidim. Klal Yisroel should be proud of leaders like him. Everyone at this event can say without a doubt Reb aron shlita is The satmar rebbe of all times.
All orthodox groups today respect and cultivate big money.
The Satmar rebbe Rabbi Aaron is on a desparate mission to get outside "support" for his position as Rebbe. This includes serious contacts with Belz, Kluizenberg, Rav Moshe leib landau shlit"a , the MO and black hat community in the 5 towns and others. He is trying hard to garner support as a rebbe (perhaps as THE Satmar rebbe of record) and the zaddik hador. Thus his appointment at Lakewood.
I have written about the following elsewhere , although Lakewood was created by Rav Aron who was a Litvack, today if not most of the Avreichim are children and grandchildren of Yekkes, Sephardim ,Hungarians, Chassidim and Young Israel congregants.Add a liberal sprinkling of BT's and you have a student body, alumni, supporters , board of whom few are Litvishe Yidden.Check the names of the many shuls in lakewood, they carry names of towns in Hungary Galicia etc but not in Lita, Lakewood has no Slutsker shul or Shavler shul, because these Litvishe cities mean NOTHING to the average person connected to lakewood. Rather most pf Lakewood are of Hungarian stock, hence R. Aron is very welcome there "probably more" than lets say Rabbis J. David Bleich, H. Schachter , and M. Willig of YU-Riets.The same is true in Lawrence whose community is becoming more Hungarian.
Brisk in Jslm with its outrageous anti Israel attitudes has infected the American Yeshiva community as these guys come back to lakewood or its famed freezer and bring these phony "kaanaus" with them in their nice condos.Another reason why Rav Aaron is so chashuv there.
While readers here may not appreciate this, the old Lithuania no longer exists it was not marked by kannaus, it was marked by Mussar , a feeling of erlichkeit, openess to contemporary ideas and concepts This is gone taken over by others .
It was a real Kiddush Hashem to witness in our times and an historic moment to hear a giant chassidish gaon speak in front of a litvishe yeshivish crowd, I came away being spellbound by the Rebbe's speech I have never heard any chassidish gadol speak so eloquently and electrifying.
Is this not the same Rabbi Aron who fought his legal battles in archaos shel akum, who summoned his father the aged rebbe to Supreme Court in order to prove that he his father is "over ubatel".The same KJ rabbi who fought the Vishnitzer rebbe and other gedolim from his own camp.
Who is this rabbi that the readers here are "chapping" such hispaalus from.What about kibbud av is there a Brisker shmuess about that too. And friends is Lakewood prepared to say front and center that they endorse Reb Aron's views on Israel and the crap published in his official weekly.. Perhaps that would really improve their fund raising in certain sectors NO?
It is sad that the Lubavitcher rebbe is no longer around to keep these guys in check.I recall his wonderful sichos about these guys and their hatred for Israel (and sometimes I wonder if not fror many Jews) as he boomed "LO meyhem veLO mayhomonum". Today they get a free ride.
well put, schneur. very well put.
all I can say from last night is that in my head I was thinking about satmar as being real empty pots without real understanding torah and derech eretz thats how they were presented to me , but now I must pick up my hands and say THIS GUY IS REALY A LEADER keep it up but it could only be with torah
to all ZALONIM from willi who log on this site to vent and chew over old lies.
the world is not crazy,. no one is interested in your old garbadge.
the one and only thing for you is to have your Rav Zalman to start learning and then perhaps he can also be respected, mean while he is running from one tea party to the other and you guys run around all over the internet to put down his brother, get a life.
Schneour
R'Ahron Teitelbaum is a brother-in-law of the Belzer, I don't think he is on a desperate mission to make peace, rather it's about time.
R'Ahron surely does not 'need' R'Landau from Bnei Brak, who has no followers, since he is no rebbe, and whose claim to fame is that he has a good hechsher.
In general, Lakewood has had a very good relationship with chasidim.The REASON in my opinion is:Lakewood serves as a MOKOM TORAH:I.e. you come to learn there that is the basic ideology.Learn Torah.If you lean you are very much part of the oilem, whatever your personal beliefs are.I remember R'Geldtzeiler, who, though he was dressed with 'vaiseh zokken , shabbos was a very popular member of the yeshiva, despite his Lubavitch interests and general chasidic hanhugos.Why:Because 99% of the time he was learning Torah 1% of the time was spent on the 'rest'
There is a feiner yid, R'Mayer Berkowitz, real Satmar, who has learned in Lakewood for years and today has a shul.Same story, people respect him a lot.
forget the Aron-Zalman fights here; that wasn't the point.
What shocks me is the fact that Lakewood Ir HaTeyreh, where every second Yid supposedly finished Shas, was soooo impressed by the shiur yesterday, no matter how good it may have been. What does that say about the level of learning there?
Or is it all about the fact that they never believed that a Chassidisher Rebbe could learn, and it's only relative to what they thought before?
Reb schneur, yes, every rebbe today wants money to build his Mosdos, especially when you talk about the largest jewish network as satmar.
he is not pocketing the money. he built mosdos for over 25 million dollars in the past 3 years.
anyone who heard the speech last night say's the same thing. this guy is a heck of a גאון a huge leader and a big time Rebbe. if you wannna bring up stuff that every normal person knows it is false, so be it, but don't eat your heart out.
yesterday was a once in a life time test for the Satmar rebbe and he passed it 110%
tousends of non chasidim saw the true colors of a Chasidihe leader in תשסז in america
To the Lubab,
What is wrong with getting a charismatic speaker, who may bring money into the picture later on, who happens to be a frimeh yid and talmid chochom??You Lubab have frayeh married to shiksas as your guest of honour.
Remember Alan Dershowitz, who grew up Orthodox in Boro Park and is totally frei today as guest of honour at last years kinnus hashluchim!!!
What I cannot stand about Lubab is their calling others on aveiros they do that are much worse!
I remember a Lubavitcher apologist poster who had a hissy fit on some Lubavitch blog that in a certain place some people would not eat Rubashkin meat, when I tried to tell this genius that though Rubashkin sells well in Lakewood ,WHAT IS WRONG IF SOMEONE DOES NOT WANT TO EAT IT,after all Lubavitcher will only eat shechita shechted by a Lubavitcher and are not ashamed to actually advertise it as 'shechittas Lubavitch'
The pot calling the frying pan black!!
What bothers me is the fact that Aron teitelbaum is a mechalel Hashem by going to the Courts to solve issues in Satmar, and we don`t need a person like this to come to Lakewood and give a Shiur for Bnei Torah! what a disgrace! this person has no respect for our Torah!!!
We don`t need him in Lakewood! Let him stick to the Satmar`s!!
Tzig
What gives?
You wrote a whole post yesterday cursing out banshakim, rebbishe kinder for doing ZERO, no work and no learning, and now you are surprised that people think chasidem are grubbeh amaratsim??
You talk from both sides .A true rabblerousing ingarishe naar.
Move to Dreck heights allready
Had the Tzig not been infected by the Lubavitcher bug he would have been a 'heiseh' Lakewooder or Satmar or Belz.The drift is he is one of those guys who leaves the thinking for others,but that's your average Hungarian.And since after the War they were the largest Orthodox group EVERY frum group has been infected by their shallow intellects.Lubavitch iz schoin nisht Lubavitch,Belz has been totally rewritten, Lakewood is a tzveiteh Vien etc.
There is one thing that Hungarians like:Luxury, good food, nice clothes i.e very NORMAL, very boringly normal,with that regard Tzig is getting grief from his mother everyday 'Why did you have to join a group that looks like it spends its night brawling in bars?'
She sees his 'tsekneitshteh' hat she has a fit.
Hershel,
איך וועל דיר ענטפערען אין אידיש
דאס מיינט צו זאגען אז לעקוואד וואס איז א עיר התורה טוט זייער (איר הערט גיט, זייער) שטארק רעספעקטירען א רבי וואס זיצט און הארעוועט טאג און נאכט.
א רבי וואס האט פון די גרעסטע חסידות אין די וועלט און דאווענט כמעט יעדען טאג מיט זיינע 700 בחורים אין ישיבה, ער לערנט פאר תהלים און מוסר נאכען דאווענען ער עסט שבת מיט זיינע בחורים ער זאגט בערך 10-20 דרשות און דברי תורה א וואך, האלט געשפאנט זיינע צוהערער ווי ער גייט און שטייט. אלזא מה פשעו וחטאתו אז ער איז געגאנגען רעדען קיין לעיקוואד ווי נאך בני תורה לעכצען צו הערען א לעבעדיגען פלפול
גיט א קוק און האט אויך (אדער נישט) הנאה
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3333656478842698860&q=lakewood+satmar&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
ער מיט 3000 פון זיינע תלמידים האבען יעצט מסיים געווען מס' קידושין, ווער עס איז געווען ביים סיום פארשטייט וואס מיינט לימוד התורה, שאפט אייך א קאסעט, איבער א שעה צייט האט ער געמאנט און געפאדערט אויף לימוד התורה
הלוואי וואלטען אלע אנדערע רביים געווען אזוי וואלט משיח שוין לאנג דא געווען
You have a wild imagination. Either this is loshon hora or motzei shem ra. Either way its not a fitting way to honor the yahrzeit of the Rebbe zt'l or Rav Schneur Kotler zt'l.
Is it possible he had a ghostwriter?
who had a ghostwriter, the Satmar Rebbe?
gogol-mogol
I liked your comments.
you get two thumbs up, even if you did try and insult me personally.....
Did anybody write down what he said ? Is it available ?
>>2) That Lakewood is a very prejudiced place that still thinks the way they did in 1775 in Vilna, namely that all Chassidim and their leaders are boors.
Unfortunately, they are right in most cases. So get off your high horses and do something to change their mind, you ass.
Hmmm is a child molester.
One more thing, how much of this crap from Satmar Chassidim are you gonna let on this post. Everyone here sounds like an insider, using the same words and phrases they use in all the blogs they are contaminating just to spread word about the so-called gadlus of their Rebbe.
Nivul Peh from a Ben Torah like yourself???!!!
es past gor not!
You're the one that has this convoluted idea in your head. Maybe if you got out of Lakewood you'd see some real learning going on.
As a bonafied Lakewood resident, I am 1000% sure that the Anonymous raving about the speech was not there, or if he was, is was attending as a AT supporter, not a regular Lakewood guy. Speech was well received, but nothing like that Anonymous would have you think.
Schneur, There is a Lutska schul in Lakewood, run by a Sorotskin. I actually thought of opening a ‘Slutsker Schul’ in Lakewood, but it would really have no point, because there are few Slutsker decedents, and even those don’t consider Slutsk to be the Ikar of there identity, unlike say a Belzer, who considers Belze the main point of his identity.,
That Sorotskin has a father who is a GIGANTIC talmid chochom and he learns with him a lot. Plenty rubs off. There is more to him than meets the eys, I believe.
>>You're the one that has this convoluted idea in your head. Maybe if you got out of Lakewood you'd see some real learning going on.
Not convoluted. Fact. I am impressed with some exceptions (Avnei Nezer--who, interestingly enough, the Rebbe quoted; Rim, Sefas Emes, Minchas Elazar, R' Yoel, Rav Gedalia Schorr--they were GENIUSES and tahorim. I don't think your Rebbe was in their league, but who cares, you probably think he's God), of course, but let's face it, the average chassidish yukkel in Boro Park, Monroe or Crown Heights could not care one wit about Torah. Nadda. Nothing.
I would add that EVERY Rebbe is looking from Shomayim with jealousy at cheder boys in litvish yeshivos because litvaks embody the pnimius of Torah.
Sounds familiar?
Just asking.
At some point, you will be honest enough to recognize what the Rebbe SHOULD have done in response to the bizayon.
As a Lakewood resident and a Internet blog surfer what was interesting to me was as follows: as written above the chassidim have a presence here on the Internet by constantly writing and gargling their respect dis-respect about each other all the time, some one like me who is not involved in the intricate inner workings from any chassidus might sometime get influenced by the Internet blogs, but what I heard and saw with my own eyes and ears yesterday night at the chizuk event was that all the crap I read until now on R'Aharan Teitelbaum is BS, it is impossible for ANY plain person to stand up in front of thousands of people and give a major shiur with such "Lebedigkeit" and fervor if you are not with it!!!so to my eyes and ears what I learned is that the Satmar Rebbe is a Giant Gaon in torah, he feels heimish when there is and where there is Torah, and that's what counts! Everything else Rabosei is pure bluff and BS.
For all you readers
You have today alot of rebbes that are capable to a good Shiur
2 klausenburger brothers
Bobov Unger
New Modzicher
Kosover Rebbe
Tolner Yerushaliem
Is a couple of Rebbes a lot?
The Klausenbergers bother-in-law Weiss and his bothers could really give a shiur btw, funny thing is that they are cousins of R'Moshe Meir Weiss, Rov of Agudath Israel in Staten Island
I am sorry the Anonomous commenter (6:20PM) along with his other Pro AT cohorts are just too much.
I actually live in Lakewood. The yungeleit were impressed with the clarity of the shiur, but the depth was nothing extraordinary.
Every piece of shit satmar chussid who continues to mouth the same empty appelations is a liar and is doing a gross disservice to their rebbe becuase they show that they themselves are ignorant if they think this shiur was demonstrative of great gaonus. It may work for Chassidim--certainly if you live in Williamsburg, Monroe or Crown Heights. But this is Lakewood. The average teen can give over the contend of the Rebbe's shiur. He did not impress the Roshei Yeshiva, either, btw.
So best of luck trying to revise history. But you cannot fool everyone all the time. Those who were there who listened know what they heard. And you will never, ever succeed in changing the minds of people who actually know.
Does anyone have to say anyhting on the Satmarer rebbe's midos, attempting to drag his old and ill father to court to prove him to be senile, so he could yarshen him ?How about the years of battles in secualr courts, how about the descriptions of the Moral , political. financial and otherwise corrupt state in KJ (as depicted by among others THE WALL STREET JOURNAL in a cover story)Is he not the Mero deasra there ?
Does a good pilpul forgive all these things ?
I posit if Reb Yisroel Salanter were alive, he would not get too excited about inviting R. Aron to lakewood.
Just for the record Lutzk is not in Lita (according to any definition of Lita). It is in Vohlin,. Although I know that the alst Rov was Reb Zalman Soretzkin that does not make the town a Lithuanian place. Many Ukranian and Vohlinian towns accepted Lithuanian rabbonim as their spiritual guides . ie the Stoliner rebbe Reb Yochonon lived there.
Brisk in Jslm with its outrageous anti Israel attitudes has infected the American Yeshiva community as these guys come back to lakewood or its famed freezer and bring these phony "kaanaus" with them in their nice condos.Another reason why Rav Aaron is so chashuv there.
You hit the nail on the head. A longer comment on this soon.
(Feel free to comment mine HT:))
HT wrote "forget the Aron-Zalman fights here; that wasn't the point.
What shocks me is the fact that Lakewood Ir HaTeyreh, where every second Yid supposedly finished Shas, was soooo impressed by the shiur yesterday, no matter how good it may have been. What does that say about the level of learning there?
Or is it all about the fact that they never believed that a Chassidisher Rebbe could learn, and it's only relative to what they thought before? "
Having spoken to many attendees of the shiur, I am more convinced than ever that the Anonymous ravings are Pro AT plants who probably didn’t even attend the event (Probably from Williamsburg). General consensus is that the delivery was very good, and the content good ( mainly said over a Pri Migadim). But nothing to justify the raving of this/these posters.
Schenaur,
I know Lutsk is in Volhin (my only none Litvish grandparent came from a small town near Lutsk. Town was dominated by Chabad!!). But the Lutsker Shul is Askenaze. Which makes Lutsk the only town to have both a Litvish and Chassidish schul named after it.
Rav Zalman Sorotzkin was a direct great grandson of Reb Leibele Saras, a famous friend of the Baal Shem Tov.
>>Having spoken to many attendees of the shiur, I am more convinced than ever that the Anonymous ravings are Pro AT plants who probably didn’t even attend the event (Probably from Williamsburg). General consensus is that the delivery was very good, and the content good ( mainly said over a Pri Migadim). But nothing to justify the raving of this/these posters.
Agreed. The shiur was said to have been very clear--but not remarkable. Methinks many in Lakewood could give such a shiur (forget about the Roshei Yeshiva!).
Frankly I never heard of any Lubavitcher or other Chabad people in Lutzk, it was dominated by Polish chasidim -Stolin and other such groups.Chabad was very wak in Vohlin.
Rabbi Sorotzkin was also a son in alw of the Telzer rosh yeshiva.
Schneur,
My grandfather came from a town near Lutsk. Approx 30 miles away. He moved out a small child during World War one. But based on his childhood memories, it would seem the town was Chabad dominated, simply based on minhagim.
can you elaborate on the Minhogim you believe to be Chabad?
For starters, they gave out Malkos erev Yom Kippur, which I think is uniqe to Chabad
Listen everyone, I was at this "pilpul" the other night.
The man is a total ass, and his group of 20 "bulvans" made an even bigger ass out of the rebbe.
He walked in like an ass, with the asses with him pushing and shoving everyone around.
Why is it that when Rav Shmuel Berenbaum spoke in BMG's bais medrash a few months ago for three thousand yungerleit, there was zero pushing?
His bulvan group are a bunch of smelly, fat, overgrown jerks.
No one was thrilled with his drasha.
Asses, asses, asses, asses, asses, asses.
PERIOD.
Just wondering. In the scores of published works of the Lubavitcher rebbe is there a single halachic pilpul that would be appreciated by the Litvish bnei Teyereh?
I last heard RA Teitelbaum give a few shiurim / drashos about 10-12 years ago - to varied audiences and to me it seemed that they were all mightily impressed. And that included Litvish kolelniks
These Bulvans were funny. Since no body was stupping to see AT, they started stupping each other!! As one guy said "what, he can't fit through the door". To some of the more naive Lakewood Olam, it was quite an eye opener.
>>Just wondering. In the scores of published works of the Lubavitcher rebbe is there a single halachic pilpul that would be appreciated by the Litvish bnei Teyereh?
My question was answered with a slieu of biting personal attacks (and some very questionable unsupported representations). I doubt the Lubabs have a straight answer to this question. My constant requests for evidencet have never been answered affirmatively.
They write that certain gedolim held of him--but I have yet to see it from a credible, non-Chabad source. And that does not matter--I want objective evidence.
And by the way, to Emes--Likutei Sichos is a joke. Comes nowhere near Pachad Yitzchok--for example--not to mention Sfas Emes and other classics.
twistle, malkos is not only by chabad, it is done by many chasidim, see mundshein's sefer otzar minhogei chabad for comprehensive list.
Likutei Sichos is not to be compared with poachad yitzchok, simply because you're comparing apples to oranges. Nigleh to Drush and Nistar. Although to compare PY to SA is a joke that any good stand-up guy would use at every show. I guess you're impressed with PY because he uses fancy terms, and words that you never heard before. Besides, who do you think taught him all he knew about MahaRal? Rav Kook and the Rebbe!
Malkus on erev Yom Kippur is an Ashkenazic minhag in origin, not Chassidish (even if Chassidim do it, it wasn't their invention).
actually malkus is kabalistic, pri eitz chaim
Snag,
But 80 years ago, who other than Chassidim was still doing it?
>>Although to compare PY to SA is a joke that any good stand-up guy would use at every show. I guess you're impressed with PY because he uses fancy terms, and words that you never heard before. Besides, who do you think taught him all he knew about MahaRal? Rav Kook and the Rebbe!
1. I never compared rav hutner to the Shaagas Aryeh.
2. How do you know what I ever heard of before? What kind of BS is that?
3. There you go again with lies. Aside, from chassidish folklore, how do you know the Rebbe "taught" Rav Hutner anything?
. . .but Chassidim woul dbe extremely public about doing it. That's the difference.
Anon 6/25
In on of the early Heichel Habeshts there was letters from him asking Sheilos in Chassidus as a talmud from his rav.
"Twistelton-Twistelton said...
Snag,
But 80 years ago, who other than Chassidim was still doing it?"
Opgehitene Yidden, old-style Litvaks, Yekkes, Oberlanders....
There are and were ultra-conservative non-Chassidim you know.
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