It's been 14 years since that fateful day - many of us never thought we'd see - came and went. The sun came up the East next day and went down in the West just as always, yet for many of us the world was never the same. Despite being without the Rebbe for 14 years the love is there just as always - sorry, much stronger. We pass it on to our children too, and very often the love the children have is even stronger than those who saw and heard. Try and explain that to someone who has never had a relationship with a Rebbe, - any Rebbe - and you get blank stares; they cannot relate to it, and they jump to conclusions about you. I can sit here and talk about the rebbe's greatness in this field or in that field, but all that just hurts the "cause" I may be trying to further. All I can see is that it's shame on every Yid who didn't have a shaychus with the Rebbe, either through the Rebbe's Torah or by some other means. We have such a good thing, we have a Rebbe, and we'd like to tell all our friends about it so that they too can have it.
223 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 223 of 223There is not objective justification for your insinuation that I am a partial or angry individual, r"l. Now that this is clear, there is no further "substance" in your post. Arthur does not have a chelek in olam habo becasue chazal says so, and that is binding whether or not I wrote the same. I urge you again to learn Sharrei Teshuva. Arthur would have never been in this mess if he did this a long time ago.
anonymous6:42
"few comments were made against the rebbe, and a whole lot of really mean spirited lies were said about the Rebbe."
All I asked you to do do is explain your above statement in which you make two points that are contradictory.All I get in return are speeches and the suggestion that I learn Sharrei Teshuva which you seem to be obsessed with.So Arthur is going straight to gehenim .I agree with you .Enough already with Sharei Teshuva.You don't want to answer my question,don't.Apparently the old adage that you can't beat a dead horse applies here.
Tzigale your beginning to attract some of the same type of kooks that post on UOJ.This guy seems to have some kind of fixation with Sharei Teshuva.I'm would assume that Arthur must be pishing in his pants from this very disturbed individual.Maybe he should learn a perek Tanya to straighten himelf out.I'm sure he will write that I to am going straight to gehennim.I'm already quaking in my pants.
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Anon 9;42
Did you hear of a party Degel Hatorah that was founded by A tzorier hayeudim Harav Shach. At the official pary convention I think it was in Binyonai Haeoma he said that chabad chasidim are Menasach Yayin etc and he made their blood hefker.
What the hell do u want from Arthur when he hears things like thees on his Rebbe his father and his kids.
you are a simple ignorant ferd.Arthur gets up every morning to daven puts on tefilin shomer shabos eats kashrus pas yisroel cholov isreal etc.. and some alter.. screams in front of thousands of Jews that he is a apikoras
Disclaimer,I am a chasid but not Chabad.
To anonymous 6:34 PM
Thanks.You expressed my feelings better then I could.
To the Novominsker talmid
please spill the beans on what your Rebbe heard from Rav Sach on the Lubavitcher Rebbe
Did he agree with the great one of BB that Chabad Chasidim are menasach yain? Or he looks at Maran as the Gra and everyone has a valid point, just I the
Novominsker Rebbe was born by accident by a Rebishe family and I have no guts to decide, as other ones have decided, Harav Dov Landau from Strikov and Weinberg of Slonim.
>Anonomous's very strange apologetics imply--according to #1--that I or anyone else would not be wrong for writing untrue things about the Rebbe so long as I do not maintain that he is a talmid chochom. I happen to have gone through enough sichos to see the Rebbe was, in fact, a talmid chochom.
You don't get it. Your hysterics not withstanding, many mature, intelligent people are in the belief that the criticisms of Rav Shach are true.
Now the question here is whether critical statements which objectively cannot be determined to be true (such as criticism of Rav Shach), may be leveled against a Talmid Chacham.
The fact that Rav Shach was truly in the category of a Talmid Chacham (something that is determined by: a) knowledge, and more importantly b) behavior) is not an objective fact either.
Therefore it logically follows, that an opinion which can be objectively determined to be intelligent, even if its ultimate veracity cannot be ascertained, is not forbidden.
That is why R. Yonasan Eibechutz still has Olam Haba after writing that the Penei Yehoshua was an "absolutely wicked childish boor", etc. And R. Yaakov Emdin too after writing things - much worse than Chabad could ever say - about R. Yonasan etc. etc.
>Ain adam nitpas al tzaro does not apply here as you was given the chance to repent repeatedly.
Firstly, I'm not Arthur, and I'm not 'honored' by that assumption. You are clearly an emotional person and you let yourself get carried away with threats and irrelevant denouncements.
Secondly, in your fit of Kana'us, your vision of the historical picture has been greatly impaired.
In short it is: while always a little at odds with the rest of the Frum world, Chabad felt relatively secure and safe.
Then suddenly, Rav Shach shot out of obscurity like a meteor, and immediately set himself the task of vilifying and calumniating Chabad until they and their influence were annihilated from the face of the earth.
To that end, he started an unabated multi-pronged campaign whose ends justified any means at its disposal. Within a few years, Lubavitchers were routinely being accused of the worst acts in the world, and named the most vile epithets possibe.
Anti-Chabad propaganda was regularly delivered by means of pamphlets, newspapers founded for that very cause, and regular speeches and entire events dedicated to this cause.
Very quickly, Lubavitchers found themselves unable to continue their normal lives, being besieged by mockery, disdain, epithets, beatings, and all sorts of monetary damage. They were officially declared to be B'nei Nidah, Ovdei Avoda Zara and worse (!).
Thankfully, due to a confluence of reasons, the storm has practically abated, but Chabad has never fully recovered from that trauma. A Lubavitcher cannot come in contact with the "Yeshivise velt" without being aggravated, insulted and often shunned.
You may be incapable of truly appreciating how desperately hurt Lubavitchers really are. But that is because you yourself have been desensitized by anti-chabad smears, and you have been led to believe that Lubavitchers are morally, intellectually and emotionally deficient.
It seems that you will never understand why Ein adam nitpas al tza'aro never applied more relevantly than to Chabad. And that is very unfortunate.
>Anonomous of 12:17: Your flawed analysis in number one of what allows great acharonim to argue with one another demonstrates a profound deficiency in basics. Welcome to the fold, but learn, please.
In that case, please explain for the benefit of the entire world, how R. Yonasan, the Yaavetz etc. etc. etc. (ad bli dai mamash) were allowed to call each other the worst names possible.
Oh, and I was wondering, have you ever read R. Yonasan's letters in Gedulas Yonasan, the Yaavetz's 20 insane pamphlets, the Pashkvilin in Chassidim U'Mitnagdim, the Sadigurer Cherem on the Tzanzer, Pulmos Hamussar....
Welcome.
You don't get it. Your hysterics not withstanding, many mature, intelligent people are in the belief that the criticisms of Rav Shach are true.
No, you don;t get it. There is not a single mature, intelligent person who believes that Rav Shach was worse than Hitler. And there is not a single mature, intellgigent person who would claim he was an ignoramous. Trying to rationalize such craziness is not going to do well for your legitamicy.
>>Now the question here is whether critical statements which objectively cannot be determined to be true (such as criticism of Rav Shach), may be leveled against a Talmid Chacham.
The fact that Rav Shach was truly in the category of a Talmid Chacham (something that is determined by: a) knowledge, and more importantly b) behavior) is not an objective fact either.
If this can be argued about Rav Shach, then it certainly can be argued against RMMS. Certainly, you cannot be upset about what Rav Shach said, then, if he and many others did not regard RMMS as a talmid chochom . . . right?
>>Therefore it logically follows, that an opinion which can be objectively determined to be intelligent, even if its ultimate veracity cannot be ascertained, is not forbidden.
And, therefore, one can assume the Rebbe was not a talmid chochom, and, therefore, undeserving of the respect you are implying he deserved.
The rest of your comment just make no sense. You acknowledge that sensible rational people, if they find the Rebbe is not a talmid chochom, does not deserve the respect you imply he deserves. Therefore, there is no taana on the them. Of course, no rational or learned person ever said this about Rav Shach, so, again, you and Arthur have a serious problem.
One last note, just to clarify your ignorance on the subject (once you write about it, you ought to know what you talking about): Rav Shach was not in oblivion at the time he rescued klal yisroel. Not even close. He was an acknowledged gadol hador in the Yeshiva world. You are trained to laugh at such things, as you believe your Nasi Hador has a monopoly on this. But if you are interested in history, he did not appear from oblivion, and he echoed the reservations Rav Kamenetzky, Hutner, Kotler and the Brisker Rav had about your Rebbe. So here we have a list of rational, intelligent and learned people who had significant reservations about your rebbe.
You don't have a list of any genuine talmid chochom--just shakronim and am horatzim--who would claim that Rav Shach and the people whose thoughts he echoed were ignoramouses.
. . .That is, if you are honest.
Your ignorance comes to the fore with every blog you post.Kotler did not have any open issues with the Rebbi.There was an altercation beetween the Rebbi RAYT"Z and Kotler that had to do with the funding of the Shangchair bocurim by the Vaad Hatzolah after world war two.
The story with the Brisker Rov is a pure Bobbe Maise that has not been substantiated by any of the Brisker Talmidim of the time and I have a number of friends who were talmidim of the Brisker rov.
As to Rav Kaminetzky,I am a working colleague of one one of his eineklach who claims that he(Rav Kaminetsky) never said a word against the Rebbe.Rabbi Yosef weinberg,an eltere,chosheve Lubavitcher Chosid,who visited Rav Hutner when he was on his death bed,relates that Rav Hutner whipered to him that the true Godol Hador was the Rebbi.
You will obviously say that all the above are are a bunch of lies, but just remember that works two ways.You still have not refuted in any way the vile quotes from his Michtovim Umaimorem and when he got up in public and poured out his despicable hatred for Chabad and anyone else that disagreed with his narrow minded,twisted views.
Go back to your fantasy world of self deception and your picture of oilom habo of fire and brimstone.You sound like some evangelical preacher's picture of the world to come.An och un vei tzu dir mit dain oilem habo.
To anounymous 10:51PM
Please start by providing a factual detail to support your claim of "lies, lies, lies"! after you've done that, perhaps we can begin a worthwhile dialogue. I know it's difficult for you, but perhaps you can muster sufficient initiative intelligence to formulate a cognizant platform for your otherwise unintelligible gibberish. Give it your best shot.Stop fixating on arthur's comparing Shach to Hitler.He obviously did not mean it literately but in a metaphorical sense.
Arthur said he will not post again. As usual, he lied. The views of Rav Kotler (not Kotler), Rav Kamenetzky and the Brisker Rav are well known. The fact is that everything this Chabadsker said about Rav Hutner's remarks flies in the face everything else he is known to said about the Rebbe. More is unneccessary.
The only person who is living in a fantasy is Arthur himself, who must cling to bubbe maasehs to keep him faith in a dead man alive. If you can even suggest that my posts demonstrate igorance, you suggest such hate and dishonesty, that you support the conclusion that you should stay off this blog and not overextend your limited knowledge by writing to me. I never stated my aim was to refute what Rav Shach may have written in Michtavim umaamorim, only that you cannot write about that which you have never read. Second, Rav Shach did not say "vile" things. What YOU wrote--calling him an am hooretz and worse than Hitler--THAT's vile. Suggesting he was twisted, that's vile, too. I read what you wrote and I can say that your comments are, objectively speaking, vile. His comments? Well, you never read them. And I will not comment on them until you read the entire set of seforim so that you can justify your ranting and craziness and lies about his sefer being full of hate and am horatzus.
To the Anonomous above:
Insulting my intelligence is not ever going to get you anywhere. Clearly you are out of your league. The fact that you have to disrespect yourself further with such silliness is only worsening your position and legitamicy. Don't you dare suggest that all I wrote was that Arthur stated was lies, lies, lies without any arguments or facts to substantiate them. My position was very clear: lying about someone's position when you never read them is dishonest, to say the least. To suggest that its muttar because he was an am hooretz (!)--like Arthur, for example, or the others who have suggested the same on this thread--is to obviate Rav Shach from any wrongdoing with regard to the Rebbe because he and many other genuine greates, Rav Kamenetzky, the Brisker Rav and Rav Ahron Kotler, felt that the Rebbe did not understand some of the things he said and wrote. In fact, even one great Chabad talmid chochom told me that havanah was not the Rebbe's greatness. You may want to argue that this is not true, but that would be an argument about metzios--a forum you, as a Chabadsker apologist, are very familiar with, but one which I, and any other individual who was honest enough to explore this subject without prejudice, would not be willing to enter into.
Arthur particularly has made a whole list of obnoxious lies about Rav Shach. And if you are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with such a laughable presumption that he meant this metaphorically, it says a lot about you that you cannot exercise the same benefit toward an acknowledged gadol hador by everyone outside the apparently infantile Chabad world where anyone who disagreed with the Rebbe was, perforce, more evil than Hitler himself.
Arthur: if you would actually know anything about the subject (outside of YOUR limited, twisted fantasy world) you would know that you don't have a chelek in olam habah. Its really simple. Unfortunately, your hate, ignorance and arrogance makes it impossible for Hashem to rest with you and give you the ability to understand the Torah. The fact you make leitzonus of Hashem's din makes it worse for you.
You have no business writing about olam habo. You know nothing about the Jewish religion. And you cannot lie your way out the holw you dug for yourself by suggesting that I wrote anything as disgusting as you what you wrote. Tzig can confirm I did not write the very first comment. My comments were clear and fair and consistent with Rabbeinu Yonah with regard to your chelek in olam habah. You wrote out of ignorance, fear and hatred.
(not anonymous August 04, 1:14)
a) you are missing a significant point regarding objectivity. Objective people find grave issues with Rav Shach's claim to 'Gadol Hador' status, and grave issues with his politics. Only someone who wasn't part of his political machine which enveloped the entire "Yeshiva world" (and Israely-Arabic cities) can be deemed objective.
The same of course, goes for the Rebbe. And there was a sufficient amount of objective great people who found the LR's claim to Gadol Hador status and his politics to be warranted (like R' Shmuel Rozovsky and R' Dovid Povarsky who signed the Rebbe's Kol Koreh's, who, it should be noted, were Chief and second Roshei Yeshiva of Ponovezh, respectively, and not the third and last).
b) "I, and any other individual who was honest enough to explore this subject without prejudice"
That would mean you constantly questioned the greatness of the LR and Rav Shach during your exploration until you made your conclusions. Is that true?
In that case I would love to see if you could objectively judge the following anecdote heard from an individual who was a product of the Yeshivishe world and was in EY during the politics of '88 etc.:
An Askan had once related the following to him: after R' Chaim Shmulevitz suffered a stroke, he was greatly incapacitated and was hardly able to speak. Still, he insisted on attending the meetings of the Moetzes. His family asked him why this was so important, and he replied: "R' Leizer Shach iz di grester Baal Machlokes, un er vet brengen a churban af Klal Yisroel".
While not fully sure whether this was true, this individual related it to his Chavrusa D.M.W. D.M.W. in turn, was also a chavrusa of R' Refoel Shmulevitz, R' Chaim's son. And so, incredulous, D.M.W. promised to ask R.S. whether this was true. D.M.W. asked R.S. (and remember, all three of these individuals were part of Rav Shach's political machine) who begrudgingly admittes that it was true. When asked how then could he disregard his father's words, he limly replied "Yiftach b'doro kishmuel b'doro".
I'll sit back now and watch the objectivity pour forth.
c) you cannot compare Rav Shach's politics to the that of other Gedolim (none of whom supported Rav Shach's methods, unless they were on his payrole).
An objective person realizes that R. Kotler, Hutner (about whom the above story is true and has only been denied in CB after RAS decreed it so vakm"l), Kaminetzky, Ruderman etc. had mild criticism (that includes name-calling) for the LR.
Rav Shach's objective OTOH, was Le'hashmid laharog ul'abed by any means possible.
d) there are many other points that could be touched upon but since everybody but one agrees with me (more or less), and the one exception is plain hysterical, אשים קנצי למילין ואחתום בברכת אך טוב לישראל.
To anonymous 9:20 Am
Just as I predicted another convoluted,long winded,nonsensical reply to my post.You accuse me of being a liar because I've posted even though I said I wouldn't.Nu,dos zol zien mine grester avle.Your self righteous pontifications have become quite boring.
When I asked you to prove letter and verse the allegations you claim were made by the Rebbe against such gedolim as The Chazon Ish and others you refused to do so claiming it's all out there for everyone to see.Yet you demand of me to prove that which I wrote in my previous post and call me a liar.
Have you ever learned or read any of the Rebbe's sichos,Igros Kodesh and kesovim on niglah and nister and just about any subject under the sun?
You assert that I never learned Sharei Teshuva not having met me or or "farhering" me on the subject.
I never said that Shach was not a Talmid Chochom.He definitely was (which makes his avles even greater)but so were Spinoza,Moshe Mendelsohn and others who used this knowledge to disparage Torah Yidishkiet.
There is a story told that the two famous brothers, the Rebbe Reb Zushe and the Rebbe Reb Elimelich, were traveling together to a shtetil that they had to reach before the onset of Shabbos.They urged the bal agolah to whip his horses so that they could reach their destination on time.They made to the shtetel just in the nick of time.The horses however paigerd due the the harrowing journey.The bal agoleh seeing his livelihood die fell to the ground and died himself.At that point Reb Zushe said that the neshome of the bal agoleh went straight to Gan Eden, and then proceeded to cry.Reb Elimelech turned to his brother in amazement and aked,"if his neshome went straight to Gan Eden,why are you crying?To which Reb Zushe answerd "I can imagine what sort of a Gan Eden can a bal agole aspire to.A golden wagon and two white swift horses.Far ah zein Gan Eden vein ich".The moral being that the type the type of Olam Habo that your limited misnagdeshe conception of is not one I aspire to.(bemchilas any misnagdim that read this post).
>>The same of course, goes for the Rebbe. And there was a sufficient amount of objective great people who found the LR's claim to Gadol Hador status and his politics to be warranted (like R' Shmuel Rozovsky and R' Dovid Povarsky who signed the Rebbe's Kol Koreh's, who, it should be noted, were Chief and second Roshei Yeshiva of Ponovezh, respectively, and not the third and last).
Please provide evidence of this kol koreh. Until then, I will not believe it.
I do not believe the story about Rav Chaim Stutchiner, either.
My skepticsm is due, in large, part to the fact that Chabad has had resorted to this sort of smear campaign a long time ago, without regard to truth. I have found no evidence of anything but a warm relationship between Rav Shmuelevitz and Rav Shach. In addition, the notion that ANYONe would sign a letter stating that someone is a gadol hador is only something a Chabad PR machine would contrive. It makes no sense, just like the psak beis din make the rebbe moshiach.
>>Just as I predicted another convoluted,long winded,nonsensical reply to my post.
Again, abusive, vindictive, meaningless gibberish in response to criticsm. Full of hate and ignorance. And, once again, you lied.
>>You accuse me of being a liar because I've posted even though I said I wouldn't.Nu,dos zol zien mine grester avle.
Lying is an enormous avleh. And liars are one of the groups of people who have no chelek in olam habah.
>>Your self righteous pontifications have become quite boring.
And what have you to say for yourself, then? You have lied throughout this post and others about people far greater than you. What do you call that?
>>When I asked you to prove letter and verse the allegations you claim were made by the Rebbe against such gedolim as The Chazon Ish and others you refused to do so claiming it's all out there for everyone to see.
Refuse is not a correct word. I suggested you look it up ON THIS SITE. YOU refused to do so. After all, its better to stick your head in the sand and scream everyone else is bad then own up to the truth. It can work because you are operating out of ignorance and fear. But it fools no one.
>>Yet you demand of me to prove that which I wrote in my previous post and call me a liar.
You have never read a maamar in your life. You suggested he was full of hate without even reading his works. How could you be so obtuse? You know nothing about the subject. Have, at least, the integrity to not lie about subjects you know little, if not nothing, about.
>>Have you ever learned or read any of the Rebbe's sichos,Igros Kodesh and kesovim on niglah and nister and just about any subject under the sun?
As a matter of fact, yes, I have. I have learned through most of the Rebbe's hadranim and, so far, three volumes of sichos. Note that I have not made a disparaging remark about the Rebbe, only defended your crazy, warped hatred toward someone you know nothing about.
>>You assert that I never learned Sharei Teshuva not having met me or or "farhering" me on the subject.
I think its kind of obvious based on what you are writing. If you even own one or opened one up, obviously, it never sunk in.
>>I never said that Shach was not a Talmid Chochom.He definitely was (which makes his avles even greater)but so were Spinoza,Moshe Mendelsohn and others who used this knowledge to disparage Torah Yidishkiet.
Rav Shach was not worse than Hitler. And he was not like Spinoza or Mendelsohn. Again, because you know nothing about him and his ideas, you have no right to write such a ridiculously offensive statement. Have integrity, take back these smears and go on with your life.
>>There is a story told that the two famous brothers, the Rebbe Reb Zushe and the Rebbe Reb Elimelich, were traveling together to a shtetil that they had to reach before the onset of Shabbos.They urged the bal agolah to whip his horses so that they could reach their destination on time.They made to the shtetel just in the nick of time.The horses however paigerd due the the harrowing journey.The bal agoleh seeing his livelihood die fell to the ground and died himself.At that point Reb Zushe said that the neshome of the bal agoleh went straight to Gan Eden, and then proceeded to cry.Reb Elimelech turned to his brother in amazement and aked,"if his neshome went straight to Gan Eden,why are you crying?To which Reb Zushe answerd "I can imagine what sort of a Gan Eden can a bal agole aspire to.A golden wagon and two white swift horses.Far ah zein Gan Eden vein ich".The moral being that the type the type of Olam Habo that your limited misnagdeshe conception of is not one I aspire to.(bemchilas any misnagdim that read this post).
You cannot comprehend the non-Chabad conception of olam haba. You probably cannot understand the Chassidish one, either. Regardless, there is nothing limited about my conception. You cannot even relate to what a conception of this inyan is to call it limited. You have shown yourself as belonging to the set which does not know, and, alas, the group which will never have a chelek in olam habad unless you do teshuva.
>>That would mean you constantly questioned the greatness of the LR and Rav Shach during your exploration until you made your conclusions. Is that true?
This is absolutely true. As one who learned under Rav Reitport and other chassidim, I was actually prejudiced the other way. Again, you stories, because no one outside Chabad substantiates them, are suspect. You would probably rejoin that I have been brainwashed. But how is it that everyone outside your world has been subject to Rav Shach's PR machine? Don't you think that's a bit too presumptuous--that you are making far too much about his techniques and enough about what he actually, together with so many others, held.
Maybe R' Yaakov and Rav Ruderman and Rav Hutner and Rav Kotler and the Brisker Rav were "softer" but their comments and reservations (together, even with Rav Leibowitz's) were all about the same issues. Its amazing to me that they did this despite a signed kol koreh signed, at the least, by R' Shmuel and R' Dovid Povarsky. And, as mentioned above, the notion of such a kol koreh about who the gadol hador is odd. No one thinks of the rebbe as the gadol hador outside Chabad, despite this kol koreh. And I have never seen it despite my research. Isn't that odd?
Anonymous 12.29PM
Ein mol far ali mol.Enough of this garbage. Do you deny that that Shach wrote in his Michtovim umaimorim disparaging remarks, in a very unbekovedike way, against the Rebbi,Chabad and other, again other gedolim,which were quoted verbatim ON THIS BLOG with marre mekoimos ?Do you deny that Shach got up in front of thousands of Yidden and made a mockery of the Rebbe and his thousands of Chassidim and dimissed them into the dungheap of history.Remember this was witnessed and heard by thousands of people so don't start with your sophistry to answer these questions.
I don't give two hoots as to whether Misnagdeshe "gedailem" recognized him as the Godol Hador or not.
As to Rav Raitport's "brilliant" statements about the Rebbi,true he is somewhat of a talmid chochom but he remains the same tipesh he was when we learned in 770 during the same period of time.He used to go to a relative of mine who was a choshever Rosh Yeshiva in a Litvesher Yeshiva to shmus in learning years ago and I clearly remember my relative saying "glatt er ploidered".
I suggest that you go back to learning Sharei Teshuva because that seems to be your only field of expertise.A "talmid chochom" like yourself shouldn't be wasting his time on blogging.Maile me I'm an am haoretz ,as you have stated quite a number of times, and is probably is the only intelligent statement that you have made.
B"H your not the one that will decide whether or not I will be "barbecued" in gehennim.That is left to much a higher authority then all of us.
...אני בטוח שה"לימוד זכות" שהמלצתי בעד מר טומי לפיד, לא תערב לחיכם של חלק מהקוראים. שהרי איך קראו לו בעיתונות החרדית: "לפיד השנאה"!
אבל תאמינו לי, שאצל הקב"ה יקר יותר לפיד השנאה הזה, שהוא בסך הכל תינוק שנשבה, מאשר "לפיד השנאה" האמיתי שהצית מייסד ה"יתד", שבמדריגות השנאה ליהודים הוא אכן גדול הדור.
לפיד שנאה נגד רבני בריסק. לפיד שנאה נגד משפחת קוטלר. לפיד שנאה של אש כנגד הגאון ר' חיים גריינימן (אחיינו של ה"חזון איש"), לפיד שנאה של להבה נוראה כנגד הגאון ר' דוד פוברסקי (להבה שהשביתה את הלימודים בישיבת פונוביז' ואשר לא כבתה עד היום הזה). והשנאה הזו, של שתלטנות "בשם התורה וההשקפה" על כל מי שלא נכנע לדעתו המשובשת, היא הגרועה והמסוכנת ביותר.
מי שבושה לקרוא את ספריו, ושכל קטע (באחריות!) מוכיח שלא ידע כלל את דברי הראשונים בסוגיא, וששכח גמרות מפורשות. מי שכאשר רואים את מה שכתב בפרק ראשון מיסודי התורה (בעניני אחדות ה') או במכתביו בעניני השקפה, נעשה חושך בעינים. הוא זה אשר החליט ללבוש את גלימת שר התורה, וש"השלחן ערוך החמישי" (המצאה של בני ברק) שוכנת כבוד בדור זה בקרבו. ובמילא שכל מי שלא הולך בתלם המעוות שלו, אחת דתו להיות נרדף על ידי שתלטנותו.
- והאם לו וללבלריו יש להם זכות לדבר נגד "לפיד השנאה"?
מי הוא האחראי הישיר על ההתבוללות הנוראה הקיימת היום בארץ הקודש, אם לא מי שבלהט השנאה בחב"ד, מנע בכח את תיקון חוק "מיהו יהודי"?!
מי הוא האחראי הישיר על שפיכות הדמים הנוראה המשתוללת כאן בשנים האחרונות, אם לא מי שבאש הקנאה בנשיא הדור, צחק בנאומיו העלגים ב"ירחי כלה" מה"שטחים", ועודד את ממשלת בגין ואת הממשלות שאחריה, לחתום על הסכמים מדיניים עם הערבים.
והאם אנו צריכים להתנצל בפני מישהו על שלא בחרנו בתלמידיו הבזויים, או במלכחי פנכתם שחברו להם?!
אנחנו שהולכים בדרכו של נשיא הדור, אוהב ישראל האמיתי, שר התורה בנגלה ובנסתר, מי שכל דבריו כאורים ותומים, מי שמאות אלפי ישראל נושעו מברכותיו ועצותיו, מי שרבבות חסידים פועלים מכחו בהחדרת תורה בקדושה ובטהרה בכל קצוי תבל, - צריכים להתנצל בפני פוליטיקאים שפלים, היונקים חיותם ממקור של שנאה וקנאה, עם הארצות, גסות הרוח ורדיפת כבוד?!
הרקע למלחמת הרב שך ברב פוברסקי נעוץ בשנת '88 כשהרב פוברסקי רצה להכניס לישיבה את חתנו הרב ברוך (בובקה) פינס. הרב שך התנגד אידאולוגית להענקת תפקידים בישיבה על בסיס של שיוך משפחתי, אבל פה היה לו בנוסף להתנגדות למשפחתולוגיה נימוק נוסף: טענה שהרב פינס נראה עומד ברחוב ליד קיוסק ומלקק גלידה, או ארטיק, לא ברור. הרב שך חשב שזה מספיק בשביל לפסול מועמד ללמד בפוניבז' ולפתוח מלחמה פנימית. עד כמה ראה הרב שך בפוניבז' ישיבה שתהווה מודל ומופת, מעידה העובדה כי הוא עצמו סידר לרב עם הארטיק לשמש כרב בישיבות ליטאיות אחרות, מהחשובות ביותר.
את הכינוי "מחבלים" שמלווה היום את נאמני הרב מרקוביץ' העניק הרב פוברסקי האבא לקבוצה שפעלה אז נגדו, כביכול או לא כביכול מטעם הרב שך. יש בין נאמני הרב שך מי שמתעקשים שקבוצת "ההוצאה לפועל" המיתולוגית שהתקבצה סביב הרב שך עסקה בדברים יותר מהותיים. מה למשל? "למשל פיזור גז מדמיע באירוע של חב"ד" "למשל מבצע לרוקן את המים במקווה שנפתח בבני ברק על פי שיטת חב"ד המנוגדת לזו הליטאית" ועוד.
...
נאמני הרב מרקוביץ' מגחכים ואומרים כי ההנהגה הכריזמטית של רבם והעובדה שלמרות הכל יש הרבה תלמידים בישיבה שנוהים אחריו, וחשוב מכך שהרב אלישיב סבור שהלכתית הצדק איתו, ושגם הרב שך תמך בו, תוביל לכך שבסופו של דבר, מתישהו, הוא יהיה ראש ישיבת פוניבז'. מתנגדיו אומרים "זו לא כריזמה, הוא סיפק אקשן, שאין בישיבה מאז שהרב שך איננו והחבר'ה פשוט אוהבים את זה".
It is amazing how you are changing the subject. My point of contention was in response to your assertion that Rav Shach is an am hooretz and that his evil can be gleaned from seforim you have never read. I responded that he was an ohev yisroel, and I made that educated statement based on my familiarity with his works. You point out one or two isolate maamorim and suggest that this makes him worse than Hitler. Naturally, I think you are beyond extreme in your rash generalizations and willful misinterpretations of who he was and what he was about.
The only garbage here was yours. You refuse to back down from your disgusting generalizations and remain referring to Rav Shach with terms that are reserved for Amalek. And my comments are based on Chazal--and those Chazals will be the decisive factors when you are told that you have no chelek in olam habah.
BTW, I would not refer to Rav Reitport the way you have. Someone else here suggested he was a very big talmid chohcom. The fact is, he is. But that does not matter: if he does not worship your rebbe and revere him as a messiah, then, in your book, he is evil.
That says a lot about you. So enough of your garbage. Stop contaminating everyone with your hate and ignorance.
Do teshuva.
To anonymous tzudreiter
You sir are a complete lunatic.In not a single one of my posts did I claim or say that Shach was an Am Hootretz.An oiheiv Yishmoel, yes.A (to quote another blogger)a tzoirer Hayehudim, yes but an am hootretz never.
To accuse me of being a Rebbi worshiper just shows how low you've stooped to promote your hatred of the Rebbi and Chabad.Your continued accusations of me being a proporgater of the "Chabad propaganda appratus" just indicates that you are a paranoid lunatic who believes in the "Protocols Of The Elders Of Chabad".
You very conveniently don't answer or reply to any of the other posters on this blog including the previous one (you probably you don't understand a word he wrote).You did not answer any of the questions I asked you on my previous post.You sir are a reiner tzudreiter meshugene and it's a complete waste of time having any type of rational discourse with you so my advise to you is to take a long walk on a short pier and if that doesn't help klap zech kop in vant.Toodle ooo.
Arthur,
I never entered into a discourse with you about any subjext with you save your hatred toward Rav Shach. You stated hiw works are full of hate, I caught you on this lie because you have never read his works. I then wrote that the rebbe said nasty things about the Chazon Ish and it can be found on this blog, you refused to answer it. Now you are suggesting that I, of all people, cannot read hebrew!!! Coming from someone who admitted to being an am hooretz, this is hillarious.
Lets get something straight: if you say someone is worse than Hitler, admit to lying on more than one occassion, but go ballistic on anyone who does not respect the Rebbe, then you certainly do not care about the Torah--but DO care about the kavod of the Rebbe. This does suggest you respect him more than the precepts of the Torah. Lying is very evil. About a gadol is even worse. The Torah is michayiv respect for such people. Yet you don't care about that. Only the Rebbe's kavod.
It is EXTREMELY bizarre that you suggest I am paranoid when I was pretty much suggesting the same thing another anonmous poster was about Rav Shach's PR machine, which, btw, it a joke. That was okay for you of course. When I suggest that Chabad has concerted smear campaigns--something which is true and looks to undermine and opress the views of others who do not respect the rebbe in the way THEY believe he ought to be respected (for example, do we have to go back to the Larger than Live debacle?) you call ME paranoid? The fact that you willfully misread my comment to accuse me, of all people, of hating Chabad or the Rebbe, chas vesholim, is particularly low and hateful. Your only way out of this is by using emotions--and resorting to lies instead of facts and logic.
Your need to resort to ad hominum attacks reeks of desparation. You are so full of hate, ignorance, fear and spite that you are foaming from the mouth, suggesting things about gedolei yisroel (worse than Hitler, equivalent to Mendelsohn and Spinoza) but insist on the kavod of others! Your behavior is inconsistent in itself and inconsistent with BASIC precepts of the Torah. Someone who suggests such a basic lack of education in the Torah cannot suggest that others cannot read hebrew!
I understand that this is your knee jerk reaction and that you cannot help yourself. Clearly, however, you have a lot thinking to do. If you are capabale of sincere thinking, it is appropriate for you to take responsibility for the wrong you have done and do teshuva.
This, after all, was the only dialogue I had with you. YOur diversions and ad hominum attacks about people you dont know and thinking you are unfamiliar with was something which I made very clear that I will not debate with--at the very onset of my insistence of kavod hatorah.
Your comments about Rav Shach are available for all to see on this thread. Calling someone a lunatic or paranoid does not wash away the evil you committed. This pathetic attempt to bashmootz someon else undermines the last shred of legitamicy you have. ITs a shame you had to go down this way.
Perhaps R' Anonymous, when the nurses permit, and the effects of the dosage wear off, you could share the heart-wrenching story of your objective exploration of Chabad and its opponents. How it dawned on you that everybody is a victim of Chabad's smear campaign and not chalila vice versa, how you realized that Chabad's right to existence cannot be objectively proven but how conversely Rav Shach was surrounded by a group of objective scholars who beheld his peaceful and loving actions, and realized his utter greatness.
Bare the content of the great research you did, and demonstrate the logical validity of your views. By the content of your previous postings, it is evidently apparent that you have a lot to contribute to this crucial topic.
Anonomous,
Thank you for demonstrating that no matter how respectful one is toward the Rebbe, his pleas to maintain a modicudm of kavod for other greats will be mocked and scorned by you because all you know is hate and spite.
I appreciate your demonstration of what you have learned.
Thank you.
alright guys, it's been a full month of this. get a life, and find something better to do with your extra time.
du bist a meshigene
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