Monday, March 30, 2009

Zealots Hang In All The Wrong Places

In my travels across cyberspace there was one line that I saw that really hits its mark. The Kotzker Rebbe zt"l asked a question: Chazal say הבועל ארמית קנאים פוגעין בו, why davka Kanoyim? why shouldn't just anybody do it? The Kotzker gives an answer that Sigmund Freud would be quite proud of: He says that they're there to do the Kanoyus shtick because they hang around there!!! They hang around the Botei Zo--s so they see the thing happening with an Aramis.... Therefore they're the ones to jump in and do the deed. Or you might say that they do it only to throw off any suspicion that they might be soft on vices such as those... I may have mentioned once that the Tzemach Tzedek also alludes to that when he says that Kanoyim in general are often nervous, unhappy, and angry people who happen to have channeled that energy into standing up for G-d and Torah. IOW, Yesudosoy may not be BeHarerei Kodesh after all, it's just their nature. And the fact that others are not as zealous may only be simply because their nature is different; not that they care any less about G-d and Torah. Food for thought.

I was thinking about that recently when a recent terrible scandal in the Jewish community was discovered and the monster was sentenced to spend the rest of his life in jail. One of the pictures I saw about the case was a group shot of the man's children who STAND BY THEIR FATHER and blame their mother - now divorced and remarried - for the troubles. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome! The picture was - sorry to say - amusing since the family was what you call frummer than frum. The boys had the longest peyos you have ever seen - never being to cut them, and the girls wore their hair in braids, also never cutting it till they marry. Even amongst the frum ones braids is like far out frum, I'd say maybe 2-3% of Satmar in America and everywhere else outside Meah Shearim wears it like that. The rest are of course very Tzniusdik, but they don't take it that far. For this guy regular Satmar frum just wasn't good enough; he had to be Rebbishe/Meah Shearim frum. That was probably a giveaway that something was amiss here. What gets me is apparently the woman went to Rabbonim to complain but they wouldn't believe her. After all, the guy was soooo frum!


Shmerl said...

Strange, why braids should be considered anything "far out frum". It was a very common thing in Europe. It's just a style. Not a way of being extra frum.

Anonymous said...

I don"t see why you are taking a side

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


ask around. this is not 1935.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


where was I taking a side? Is believing that the man is guilty taking a side?

Maybe A Litvak said...

What does this have yo do with an inferiority complex?

Tzig, with all due respect, y\since before 1935 people knew about the challenging negativity etc

Anonymous said...

I love your headline, "Zealots HANG......".

bpunbound said...

So what's news Hirshel?

Mayseh Bchol Yoim...there's a similiar case brewing in Seagate as we speak...and the Rabbuunim are just happy to shuffle it off to another Geigent, as long as NIMBY.

Anonymous said...

I share your view in general about this outrageous thing, but your thing about tzep (braids) is off the wall.

I have family, who go like this they arn't even kanuim.

Satmar or or those in Satmar orbit. (as you must know, Satmar is much wider than one chasidic movement, many smaller and other movements are aligned with Satmar. i.e. Toldos Aron, Tosh, Spinka even litvish Navhardox in France or Dushinsky,) mainly go so, but so do Kloinzenburger Rebbes mishpoche or Reb Fishele etc.

There are various groups who have it in their family tradition for the girls to go in braids. So a group cannot be defined as being Kanuim. Its a style of some.

Its clear to me that even chasidic people being that we live in such segmented communities that we know very little of each others social norms. However we being so close each other, gives us the illusion that we know each other. Tzig, this braids thing just proves my point, no offense intended.

BTW. the מגן אברהם writes that braided hair is a halachic requirment for unmarried women.

עיין במ"א (או"ח עה) שכתב דלא ילכו בגילוי הראש רק אם שערותיהן קלועות ולא סתורות אבל המחצית השקל והמגן גבורים מקילין בזה.

Yosef 718

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ליין נאכאמאל ר' יוסל
I said outside of Israel and Rabbonishe or Rebbishe Mishpoches. Those that always did it and carry on the tradition I can understand. That means Toldos etc. This guy sounds like he decided it on his own.

Anonymous said...

My family (1st cousins) probably had close to 50 girls wearing the braids but non of there children don"t wear it anymore,this is a fading thing even by the holy of the holiest families.

The Reb Arele thing is a different minhag then the Magen Avrham, he put in his takonas that a besula can not cut the hair till marriage. If I am not mistaking Reb Mier Brandsdorfer in his teshuvas, tries to put some halachic logic to that minhag. It looks like Indian paganisim.
If you Reb Mendele Rimonaver letters on tzenius(the first Rebbe that brought Tznius in to the chasdic terminology) I think he was against the braids it looks like it was then the cool thing.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Anon to Yosef

"he put in his takonas that a besula can not cut the hair till marriage"

But why doesn't the minority of chabadske girls still don't do the braids?

Nuchem said...

So lets go back to the Lubavitch issues, ok? Cuz, frankly, this Tsepalech nonsense is not very interesting, plus this shmoiger's meshugassen have been published all over the place already so it's ancient news.

(Just want to let you in on the fact that the mother of the kids is Israeli Yerushalmy, that probably went this way herself, and Weingarten is a chnyokisheh family, so good chance that was his family minhag)

I wanna post a comment I copied from Crown
Here goes "So sad about my schechunah wrote:

Such an aidel, refined man is “Gabbai” in 770? I'm so certain the Rebbe would just be thrilled to hear the coarseness out of Lipskier's mouth.

Now he has single-handedly destroyed something that I personally was so excited about. What a lowlife. The schools were correct to back out, but the sad thing is I will not live long enough to participate in the next one & I was looking forward to being able to do this mitzvah. Guess I'll do it alone on my porch.

But I think there should be independent security patrols to stop them screaming Yechi over loudspeakers & spoiling it for everyone else. How about a separate area where they can yell & dance as they did on Gimmel Tammuz.

In the end I have to hold Rabbi Krinsky responsible. How does he allow this to continue? The courts said Aguch is in charge, but they are too weak to stand up to the schoolyard bullies. I am so disappointed in someone I once held in the highest esteem. Isn't there anyone who can stand up to these hatemongerers? No one??"

The reason I'm posting it is to show that apparently the Lubab house of cards is starting to crumble. How so? Well, the "normal" Lubab are starting to realize that there is something very "off" in Lubavitch. Not the usual "snags always hated us" "they were against all the mivtsoim", all the well-known Lubab excuses, which deluded well meaning, but naive folks long ago. Yetst iz ess takkeh andersh. The Meshichists are growing in power, especially in Crown Heights, and the "normal" Lubab cannot fight back by just saying "ok, lets forget about Crown Heights and build a new base maybe in Eretz Yisroel or wherever" because Crown Heights is the "Kan Tzivo" AND 770 is The "Bais Rabeinu sheBebovel" all so integral to today's Lubab theology. especially after the "famous" sicha on Bais Rabeinu shebebovel.
So, as I see it, Lubavitch will have three groups :A small one that will gradualy leave and come back to normative practice, a large Meshichist group, that will continue it's kool-aiding charade and who knows where they will eventually end up, it takes time but they may break off from Orthodoxy at some point, a thing that anybody knowledgeable about history knows has occurred before. The last group will be the Anti Meshichist, that will be a small group similar to the Malochim of Williamsburg, not in theology but in claiming to the "real Lubavitch"
The rest of Lubavitch that has not yet aligned themselves with any of the above groups will eventually do so.
In the meantime Monsey's Lubab will benefit from people looking to run away from the eventual need to decide where we are going from here. Rabbi Lesches, if plays he cards right can be quite successful for a time.
In the meantime you Tzig, keep on defending the Lubab fort! You know that most of your defenses are crappola, that Lubab is self destructing, but you are a loyal chap, you chose the wrong team, but you are going to stick with them. And yes,you like Lubavitcher niggunim and yes, you probably enjoy being one of the few Lubab who have an inkling and curiosity about krayzen outside of

You probably won't post this or if you do, you''ll claim that the English is terrible, which you are correct above or just use the standard "defense" line: "Written by another hater"(although you surely realize that the analysis is very plausible)

In the meantime have a Pesach kosher vesomeach.


Shmeelu said...

Is that a geblimte bekestshe he's wearing to court?!

nuchem said...

I must say you have very good editing skills! I don't meant it cynically.The only part you edited-away was about my feeling that you would not post the comment which you did, plus you made it much more readable, italicizing the Yinglish etc.
Anyway, legufoi shel inyan: I want to hear, honest responses from you or other posters about the "matsav" in Lubavitch.
A note to people who don't know what I was referring to in the comment I posted from's the inability to even organize a public "birkas hachamo" in Crown Heights which would unite the whole community, because the Meshichist faction is not maskim to a "pareveh" ceremony, but it must include "Yechi" chanting and yellow flags etc..

Anonymous said...

Do you realize that you are disparaging Pinchas hatzadik by insinuating that he hung around near batei zonos? Think before you write genius!

Friendly Anonymous said...


By now, Lubavitch hashkofo has already spread to the "normative world". Vehoraya, the Rebbe said that Moshiach is ready to come, and we have a kabollo from Moyreinu Habesh"t that this can only happen when "yofutzu maynoshecho chutzo".

Therefore, the only question is whether we will learn Chabad chassidus under the framework of Merkos or not. And frankly, if you are not a shliach who runs to the yearly banquet, who cares?

Anonymous said...

This divide in Chabad is since the first stroke and all the doomsayers gave their grim prognosis, welcome to the club

seen it all said...

This is the reality of Lubavitch IMHO. Forget ch info, col or any other slanted website. The metzius is the yechi crowd is running out of steam. It is a belief system that can't carry u for 2,0000 yrs of golus. Yes, they control the big shul and some yeshivas. But the fact is that 75% of chassidim are tired of it and want to be left alone. The "left" was a lonely place to be 15 yrs ago. Today the silent majority agrees with them about yechi, flag waving and the other meshugassen. It's only a matter of time before the signs come down and 770 starts looking normal again (as if it ever was a "normal" shul). They only thing that keeps them going is the crackpots (crack literally and figuratively) from tzfas and even they are diminishing.

Anonymous said...

I don't exactly chap the Kotzkers vort.
Can you please elaborate?

Anonymous said...

How do you know he is guilty?

It's his word against hers.

Anonymous said...

Seen It All
My beliefs are with you 100% But I davened a Shachris this week in 770, both Zals were full of buchrim learning not Dvar Malchus but Masectas Kesubos and yoreh Deah I was shocked since it is already Bein Hazmanim , A Big part of the Buchrim had Yechi Yarmulkes. Maybe under the Gemoras there were the Crack pouches?

Anonymous said...

Who is Rabbi Lesches from monsey??