Friday, February 19, 2010

ADD ר"ל in Lakewood

It seems like Lakewood - or rather the defenders of the Lakewood system - has a disproportionate amount of sufferers of ADD and lack of reading comprehension skills. They sit and read what I say, but they can't understand it. They draw conclusions that are not there, and they simply misread what I wrote.

How sad that these are the leaders of today and tomorrow.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

And they all stand still while Rubashkin is shechted alive!

Yosef Greenberg said...

You're falling down a cliff.

Pure hate.

You should be better that this, Tzig.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

good thing I know better, Greenberg. Go read what I wrote again. If only you would know how many virtual high fives I got from very prominent non-Lubavitchers for the piece.
Take off your "snag" glasses for a second.

dovy said...

sorry i don't have the patience to read the other comments, I just had to say that one point cannot be stressed enough. ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IN LAKEWOOD ARE THE FAUL:T OF ONE MAN: THE MODERN ORTHODOX SELF PROCLAIMED CEO AARON KOTLER. anyone who can do anything to hinder or marginalize this man will be doing a great service for klal yisroel.
(btw, i have know aaron since we were kids, if anyone is interseted, i can write a little of his sordid life story)

Yosef Greenberg said...

I'm no snag, Tziggeleh.

I read it again, and your right, the hate is not pure. :)

Look, you're right that the overgrowth in BMG is a problem. But its wrong to paint them all with the ADD brush. Even as a tactic to get you're point across.

"If only you would know how many virtual high fives I got from very prominent non-Lubavitchers for the piece."

Like the quotes of known anti-Semites.

"Most of my friends are Jews."

Not a good tayneh.

Maybe I should open up a blog that does bash Lubavitch, as I have yet to find one.

"The purpose of this blog was to provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing that is so prevalent in blogosphere. I hope I've accomplished that objective."

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I didn't paint Lakewood with an ADD brush. I said that the people commenting here totally misunderstood what I was writing. Either that or they cannot help themselves and need to disagree with me ALL the time. And the fact that 1) the thought was not mine, but rather the thought of a RY there, a former talmid himself, proves that what I'm saying is not hate, whether you're a "snag" or not.

Yosef Greenberg said...

Well, you failed to mention that you're referencing the readers on your blog.

And, I'd be pretty surprised if your commenters ever become leaders; today or tomorrow.

But, hey, you never know.

dovy said...

hirschel,
i think one point regarding you is in order.
you have stated that you are aware of the problems facing lubavitch in general and crown heights in particular, yet you choose not to have these issues discussed in a public forum. you cannot blame Lakewooders for having these same sentiments about the problems in Lakewood. Agreed?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

dovy

we're talking about far different issues here. The issues we're discussing here can be addressed without embarrassment.

dovy said...

tzig,
decent point. but i was just mentioning that it is natural for people to become defensive and seceretive when they feel that outsiders are attacking there society. it's not neccesarily because they have ADD.

SDR said...

(btw, i have know aaron since we were kids, if anyone is interseted, i can write a little of his sordid life story)

Well?

Shimon said...

"we're talking about far different issues here. The issues we're discussing here can be addressed without embarrassment."

Lol.From the foot in the mouth department!
So the problems in Chabad are that big and embarrassing??Who knew?!

avi said...

Tzig,
I"m not good at understanding things, like you pointed out to all the posters that disagreed with you.Would you be so kind,therefore and explain to me what you meant with this quote: "Now what we have in Yerushalayim D'Ocean County, NJ is a town of thousands of bitter, downtrodden and hopeless people. People without a purpose or mission in life. People who question their existence every single day and grind through it like hamsters running the wheel."
I understand that you claim that Lakewood has "thousands" of bitter people etc. You have apparently never been to Lakewood and never stepped into BMG.On what basis do you write the above??
I guess I must be missing something??

Anonymous said...

They sit and read what I say, but they can't understand it. They draw conclusions that are not there, and they simply misread what I wrote.

How sad that these are the leaders of today and tomorrow.


The breeding ground for klal yisroel's future Lakewood leaders, The Circus Tent. You heard it here, Tzig's commenters will one day be proclaiming to the world 'daas torah', and they got there shimush here.

To bad tzig can't see past his nose, that it's not the 'elite' hang around his blog. umiktzas shvocho...

Anonymous said...

The dumbest post yet!
When a blogger blames his readership for not understanding his depth, he is either an Einstein or an idiot.
Choose what is more applicable here

pinny said...

This blog is an example of Lubavitch at it's "finest".
The blogger shows how much he "cares" for "thousand of miserable yungerlait that have not been touched by the light of chassidus like he has".A true example of "selfless Ahvas Yisroel"
Then he shows us the "Chochma" part of of Chaba"d, by managing to analyze Lakewood and understand everything about it without ever stepping foot in there.Actually maybe that is more the "Bina" part of Chaba"d because he is a "mayven dovor mitoich dovor,see how he is able to truly "understand" Lakewood just from seeing a graph in a newspaper, hearing a story about Rav Koppelman and putting all those things together.
Lastly, he "lovingly" berates all those readers who don't have the "Da'as" to understand his depth.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

As probably the only true Lakewood Kollel Yungerman posting here, I have to say that I think that Tzig has some valid points, although overstated. Among other thing, Rav Arron never wanted a yeshiva of over 400 bacurim, RAK always maintained that the downfall of Slabodka was that it grew too large. But in truth the Lakewood yeshiva is much more of a Kollel than it was in Rav Arons time. In RAK’s time, the Shiur was the central learning of the Yeshiva, today it is ignored by 80% of the yeshiva learning the ‘Yeshiva Mesechta’, which in it self is merely 30% of the Yeshiva. In the times of RAK there was no such a thing as not learning the Yeshiva Mesechta. That was grudgingly allowed for ONE Seder by Rav Schneur, and that group was exiled to the Ezras Noshim. There were virtually no Yungelite in RAK’s days, now the bochurim are maybe 20% of Yeshiva. RAK was NOT a fan of siting in Yeshiva forever!! He did nudge older Talmidim (Five plus years in Kollel) to take jobs in Chinuch etc.

(If you want to know why I have internet, I work on the side. Which is how I can afford to still be in Kollel)

Anonymous said...

Twistleton:

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not a Lakewood yungerman. I would be willing to introduce you to a few, but you are not one of them.

Anonymous said...

Twistleton:

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not a Lakewood yungerman. I would be willing to introduce you to a few, but you are not one of them.

Anonymous said...

Tzig where is the Chabad community with more intense learning or avodas hashem than Lakewood ???

Not kvar Chabad,
Not London
Not Montreal (maybe it once was)
Not Tzas
Most certainly not CH

Why such sour grapes ???

James Dean said...

Yosef, if you want an anti Lubavitch view of the world, check out Failed Messiah.

Dovy, the problem of the growth of Lakewood is not the fault of A.K., he is enabling the Gedolei Yisroel that have set up an unsustainable system based on a falsehood that "it was like this in Europe".

Finally, I cannot diagnose ADD but would diagnose Lemming Mentality.

dovy said...

james dean,
too bad you do not know the truth. keep fooling yourself about that jerk.

Perspective said...

Tzig
I think you need to deal with the reality of your post. Your post was an attack on Lakewood. Lakewood is a sacred cow. If you attack Lakewood your'e going to get savaged. The same is true when Chabad gets attacked on the web its defenders come out fast and fierce. Same can be said probably for any chassidus or Litvishe yeshiva. Go try attacking Belz or Ponovez for any reason and watch your traffic hit all time new highs. The commenters reactions are predictable and your defensive ADD comment demonstrates surprising naivete for an experienced blogger. Naivete in that you seem to have failed to anticipate the visceral reaction this post would engender. The only reason I can think of is that you view Lakewood as some kind of extraterrestrial experience which is fair game for potshots. Well there are humanoids living in Lakewood who have feelings too. It's a good lesson to remember.

James Dean said...

Dovy, I know RAK better than many and know much of what you speak about. I did not and cannot defend him and his less than above board methods. I merely pointed out that this phenomenon is not his invention, he is providing a vehicle for the Leaders to implement their policies.

Anonymous said...

Pinny
how many guys in Lakewood learn Shor Shenogach Hapora and never sat foot on a farm

Anonymous said...

Hey,

How many youth are on drugs in Lakewood ?

Why ?

Richard said...

How many youth are on drugs in other frum communities? Much more than most people dare to imagine and would admit if they knew! They would scream "anti-semite" to people who tell them the truth.

Anonymous said...

"how many guys in Lakewood learn Shor Shenogach Hapora and never sat foot on a farm"

How many Yeshiva guys anywhere learn about "mukas eitz ani - la, eila drusas ish at" without ever having...

dovy said...

james dean,
the unchecked growth of BMG and the obssesion with numbers and the acceptance of every T, D & H, with no standards at all, are all AK's invention. He has a goal to reach 10,000 when he can register as an official University and get much more government $$$$ at the real yungaleit's expense. He originally said this openly and had a poster in his office with the chart and "the road to 10,000" written on it. After realizing that the public would not support this, he retracted and, bald faced liar that he is, now denies he ever did it.

Anonymous said...

>>how many guys in Lakewood learn Shor Shenogach Hapora and never sat foot on a farm

How many lubavitchers sat foot on a farm and never learned Shor Shenogach?