Rabbi Yitzchok Yosef Lerner (author of Shmiras HaGuf V'HaNefesh) lambasted the members of his Kollel for not attending the Levaya of the Vishnitzer Rebbe zy"a. He himself was there. He also did not like that people did not go to the Levaya of the Kedoshim who died in Yeshivas Mercaz HaRav Kook.
In the 1980s the Reichmans donated a large sum to yeshives and put Rav Shach in charge of the distribution. There was a rumor at the time that when Vizhnitz came cap in hand Moron's response was "far kugel un tsholen gib ich nit". Perhaps his disciples have a similar policy in relation to funerals.
the same happened at the levaya of R' Shimon Lelover who everyone acknowledged as a true tzaddik. it was motzei yom kippur, bein hazmanim, so no bittul teyreh was involved. look at the pics and there's hardly anyone without a chassidishe rekel.
tzig: היכן נעלמו כובעי הקנייטש מהלווית האדמו"ר -------------
להתראות אצל הרב אלישב שיחי' פון היכל שלמה, מסדר הקידושין בחתונתו היה הרב הראשי!, 20שנה ישב בבית דין של הרבנות הראשית!, למרות התנגדותם של החזון איש והרב מבריסק למוסדות הרבנות הראשית
קנייטש הוט said... מסדר הקידושין בחתונתו היה הרב הראשי!
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הרב אלישיב בצעירותו היה קוק'ניק שרוף, הרב קוק היה המסדר קידושין שלו, ואף פדה את בנו בכורו, חמיו היה מנהיגם ורבם של הרוויזיוניסטים, האצ"ל, חרות, ודומיהם, וכאשר רבה של בריסק והחזון איש קראו למלחמה על 'הרבנות הראשית' וקבעו כי מדובר בשמד ממש, במקום שאפילו על המדרכה שלצד 'היכל שלמה' אסור לדרוך מפני שהמקום מטמא ממרחק, הרב אלישיב צפצף עליהם וישב בבית דין הגדול וקבל משכורת שמנה כדיין עד היום הזה
Lozmirup Its interesting what you say about the Lelover levaye, since this both Rebbes the Visnitzer and Reb Shimele were gedolim in Nigleh too, but it does not matter for this Misnagdim..
Gedoilim in nigleh, a nechtign tog. Reb Moishele was a masmid and the lellover was a talmid chocom. Nebech if a chasidisher rebbe who knows which side to open a gemore is shoin a godel. What would that make Ahron T? A geon hageoinim?
בריסק'ער said.. "הרב אלישיב בצעירותו היה קוק'ניק שרוף, הרב קוק היה המסדר קידושין שלו, ואף פדה את בנו בכורו," you are nebech misinformed that by most erliche yiden all your long list is a plus, Rav Kook is considered as a Goan vetzadik, much larger the Rav Zonenfield, There is some issues that many gedolim did not agree with him, as Most gedolim did not agree with the baal Veyoel Moshe
למלחמה על 'הרבנות הראשית' וקבעו כי מדובר בשמד ממש, במקום שאפילו על המדרכה שלצד 'היכל שלמה' אסור לדרוך מפני שהמקום מטמא ממרחק
I don't think the Chazon Ish was involved in any shape with the Brisker Ruvs hangover on Hiechel Shloma... Rav Elieshev had all the right to disagree with the brisker ruvs war on Hiechel Shloma. the Satmar Ruv disagreed on the all brisker derech halimud of brisk....Only Kanoais is a field that everyone has to be on the same page....I believe Rav Elieshev has a other opinion.He was there and did not see it a as a problem, History has proven that Rav Elieshev was correct 100%, it was only a plus for the yiddishkiet status in artzieni Hakodesh Admit it that it was a mistake and stop harping on it.
No direct connection to this thread, but I believe R' Hirshel (as well as many of teh readers here) will be mehaneh from the blog linked below. It's hafotzas hamaayonos to the masses, in their shprach yet durchgetohn, and there are comments of those thirsty fro more understanding too. It's been around for just a few months, but gantz shein..:
Hasidology, bist an echter ferd. You must be thick around the skull. It's very basic inyunim discussed there, but you couldn't manage. Nu, why am i beating a dead horse?
Kugel: “bist an echter ferd” “why am i beating a dead horse?”
? הפתיחה אינו מעין הסתומה
בהקדמה להתניא 'הנדפסה' כתוב: אך ביודעי ומכירי קאמינא אשר 'עליהם' תטוף מלתי!, בהסכמה להתניא הר"ר זושא זצ"ל כותב שלא הי' ברצונו של התניא זצ"ל להדפוסו! קומט א מאן דהו בכוחו הגדול of psycho babble and will explain until blue in his face on a web blog what חסידות is-was-should be! Cut the crap! Stick to your overnite Kugel.
How does a BelzFinAMool survive not sat-lubab-litvk Not even belz of today? Is it that your'e עוג מלך הבשן הנשאר מיתר הרפאים? If so is it in hight or grid?
תניא אז דו פארשטייסט נישט וואס דער בעל התניא האט נישט געוואלט דרוקן און וואס יענער שרייבט (וואס בכלל לא קרב זה אל זה ) דארף'ן מי ליידן אז דו ביסט א פארשטאפטן קאפ און דו פארשטייסט ניט?
Twistleton "He was always the example of a Rebbe who exsists only becuase his father was a Rebbe!!" I am no Viznitzer chosid at all, but with this rebbe you got it wrong, Reb Chaim Maeir Hagers 2 sons were considered Murem Meam and Gedoilm beTorah in their in Grossverdien, Reb Moshe Hager hated misnagdim, but he was a big masmid and nice lamdan. He as a serious possek in his kehila in Vilechovits in Romania and serious Rav and Rosh yeshiva in Benai Berak. He could of get all his positions without being a rebishe kind.
Is it maybe because he expelled ר'גדלי' נאדעל מחשובי תלמידי החזו"א with the שני מאות איש שלא כרעו לבעל? Reb Gedalye Nadel was considered in benai nbearak in his latter years as apikores, the only reason the BB establishment did not expose and attach him because he was from Unzere (Anash)the Chazon Ishes closest disciple. His hashkofas were total off the wall on Kadmos Olem, on chazal... The Great tzadikim only knew to ostracize the big goan and tzadik Rav Steiensaltz who used some cool language on chazal for a secular crowd printed by open university..Its language used constantly on the Aish site for instance... The Visnitzer Rebiem had Siyaya Deshmie to get rid of Rav Nadel in his early days of his kefira.Many of his talmidim ended up as semi kofrim as Moshe Ber Beck that has Heilige goyim but a kofer and a rotzeach, and so the other leader that I will not talk since he is Shochen ofer....
Tibi Lotzi: "The Visnitzer Rebiem had Siyatya Deshmie to get rid of Rav Nadel"
And of 200+ his talmidim?! לשיטתך ממנ"פ was reb gedalya an apikoras He trew out 200+ talmidim because they got infected with apikosem like reb moshe ber? that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele?!
Or because reb gedalya learned with his talmidim in clandestine ויוא"מ which inspired them to protest against reb moshele's sending his daughters learning and speaking hebrew?! that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele either ?!
BTW הנפטר דידן כתב בצוואתו
בלשה"ק,ובקשתי מאוד שהדיבור השפראך בביתכם יהא בנוי על יסוד האידיש ולא בעברית
ישועות ישראל And of 200+ his talmidim?! לשיטתך ממנ"פ was reb gedalya an apikoras He trew out 200+ talmidim because they got infected with apikosem like reb moshe ber? that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele?! Sorry I am too dumb to get your question?
"Or because reb gedalya learned with his talmidim in clandestine ויוא"מ which inspired them to protest against reb moshele's sending his daughters learning and speaking hebrew?! that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele either ?!" I would not be proud that Nadel, Pal and Beck would be the Mafitzie Veyoel Moshe, unless Kanoias is Methar as Hashertez as it did with the Homosexual Dahan Hashem Yinokem Domai. Historically, check out the families of reb moshele holy daughters and the fruits of the trio...... Don"t touch that subject its very touchy...
Menashe Fulop: "Gut Arien Gezugt... but no Loshen Kodesh..."
Tzig used the worst curses in another thread or harav 'Menashe Fulop' and some where in Loshen Kodesh so you can pick the one suited you most! I would say this phenomenon attacking/killing tzadigim from behind the net/wall is beyond 'Gut Arien Gezugt' its a:מכה אשר לא כתובה בתורה
The reason they left R' Gedalya alone is because although most people who question kadmus ha'olam are really tring to undermine the fundamentals of Torah, R' Gedalya was clearly not. They knew this from his Torah and his personal life. Others (nameless) have continued this path to all kinds of weird belief system. You can see their blogs for confirmation. R' Gedalya was a talmid chochom muflag and I know some of his talmidim as muflagim. BTW, even if you classify R' Moshe Ber Beck as a rotzeiach (where is the nirtzach, a victimless crime!) how is he a kofer? I do not believe in his ideas, but he does not look like a kofer, just mistaken.
Tanya, why are you stuck on what was 200 years ago? 200 years later, you have on the one side those that say נשתכחה, & on the other side you have those who areמפיץ more & more. You may stay on the נשתכחה side. I don't think anybody will miss you.
But my main point is, that just as r chaim vital writes in his time מצוה לגלות זאת החכמה when up to then it was extremely hidden, so it is now. As we get closer to end of days, it's getting more & more revealed. But i'm afraid i'm dealing with someone who is just cynical.
1) r steinzaltz says things which we have halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons. He addmited his mistake in a letter to the eidah haradit. 2) r dahan was a BT... If not he could have been blackmailed instead of assasanated.
i know what the rebbe said about this subject & now i know your "very educated" opinion. now lemme think... chochom atik or the rebbe? sorry, it's not even a question. but you shaygitz, maybe it's time for you to stop quoting zohar & start being a bit humble when confronted with the opinion of someone who rubboy kekuloy shel klal yisroel accepts as a tzaddik.
& tshivah on chatas ne'irim could surely help in this case.
kigel vchu' said: "chochom atik or the rebbe? sorry, it's not even a question. but you shaygitz, maybe it's time for you to stop quoting zohar"
When Kigel & Kugel talks people listen! But מתוך כעסך בא לידי טעות which rebbe are you reffering to what is he said you know so well? What zohar was quoted? Have some more kugal and relax.
"tshivah on chatas ne'irim could surely help in this case." OUCH!
פסחים קיט מאי למכסה עתיק זה המכסה דברים שכיסה עתיק יומין ומאי נינהו סתרי תורה
& the rambam clearly paskens ולא יהיה עסק כל העולם, אלא לדעת את ה' בלבד. & from bash"t and on this started & as printed In the toldos the letter from bash"t re יפוצו..
kigel said: "okay, granted. but l'etzem hoinyan have you got anything to say?"
What is the etzem hoinyan Kigel or Kugel? Tzadigim eat kugel on shabbos why? Because after eating the kugel the break out in a circling dance to show Just like in a circle all are equal! לעתיד we are all gonna be equal to! כעגול כ'גיגל
מיוסד על חז"ל: עתיד הקב"ה לעשות מחול לצדיקים כעגול, מה עגול אין לא ראש וסוף
"Sorry menashe'la It's not my quote SR z"l said it once on some quote.. from the lubab rebbe!" its a revisionist lie he never spoke about Lubavicher ?Rebbe
Yankel "The reason they left R' Gedalya alone is because although most people who question kadmus ha'olam are really tring to undermine the fundamentals of Torah, R' Gedalya was clearly not. They knew this from his Torah and his personal life. Others (nameless) have continued this path to all kinds of weird belief system. You can see their blogs for confirmation. R' Gedalya was a talmid chochom muflag and I know some of his talmidim as muflagim." You are denying the obvious...
Yankel "BTW, even if you classify R' Moshe Ber Beck as a rotzeiach (where is the nirtzach, a victimless crime!) how is he a kofer? I do not believe in his ideas, but he does not look like a kofer, just mistaken." Malhivin bemalachie elkim is a kofer according to the rmbam, but transgressing the 3 oaths is no kofer accordingthe rambam, he is a poresh min hatzibur(Klal Yisroel) Ein Loi Chelek leOlam haBoi
Zeir Sham ") r steinzaltz says things which we have halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons. " where does he say it? Did he put the above quote for the Eidah, or he wrote a letter on all his writing?
Zeir shom "r dahan was a BT... If not he could have been blackmailed instead of assasanated." he still wrote homo letters till the end of his life, How may homos do you know that were healed? If he was blackmailed then Hertzel was blackmailed too... let him also be a tzadik..
Tomshover: "its a revisionist lie he never spoke about Lubavicher ?Rebbe"
Here he comes again! "he never spoke about Lubavicher rebbe" Except he did on many occasions, with many live witnesses on it! I poses a torah that he repeats from a private conversation on the lubab rebbe.
So R' Gedalya a talmid from the chazon eish with hundreds of תלמידים, ת"ח ירו"ש מפיצי תו"י is an apikoras! Because of his convoluted shita in kadmus ha'olam But kook is what?
Stropkover I personally am not in the apikorsim production business,its not my forte and not my families. But I am only talking to a certain segment in Klal Yisroel that are obsessed in hunting down apikorsim, that they lost a opportunity of a big fish. His Ideas were convoluted on all principles that were holy in mainstream orthodoxy.He was against the printing of chidushie torah that he wrote in his youth.The family printed it,despite his condemnations, they needed their father as a accepted Godal with 2 large black volumes with Rashi buch shtaben Benai Berak Style.
Stropkover "Here he comes again! "he never spoke about Lubavicher rebbe" Except he did on many occasions, with many live witnesses on it! I poses a torah that he repeats from a private conversation on the lubab rebbe." I would love to see it, please scan it to the circus editorial board for publication.. The only place that I know that he mentions the Ideas of Lubavicher Rebbe Zy"a, is in the Al Hegeulah about Mivtza Tefilin and the Balie Teshuva... Maybe it was a torah first and then put in the sefer, since a big part of the sefer was first said by Rava deRaven. Plz don't get offended by not believing anything said in Satmar Ruv A"H name, since not believing in stories and nissim are his hallmark dogmas
Tomshover: "Plz don't get offended by not believing anything said in Satmar Ruv A"H name, since not believing in stories and nissim are his hallmark dogmas"
There is no problem if you never believe any stories in SR name, and you believe only in what 'he' writes! But why do you believe and quote all באבא מעשיות from others when it suits your agenda! perhaps חכמים הם להרע ולהטיב לא ידעו, ח"ו perhaps a little double standard?
BTW So far 95% of מעשיות printed in SR name is in sync with his know opinions said verbally and in writting.
I have a ש"ס תורה in possesion copied from a tape BTW 'I was present when he said it' where he repeats something that he said in a 'talk' specifically on the Lubab rebbe! and he mentions it by saying "I already said it before" But in the torah in public he does not mention on whom that vort was directed! also is added other thoghts that we all know whom he mented, on whole list of topics like learning rambam, learning in english, does who learn without kabolos no less - actually he says know Nothing! - than does who have kabalas haoves But don't know how to learn etc. etc.
stropkover "There is no problem if you never believe any stories in SR name, and you believe only in what 'he' writes! But why do you believe and quote all באבא מעשיות from others when it suits your agenda! perhaps חכמים הם להרע ולהטיב לא ידעו, ח"ו perhaps a little double standard? " you forget that in a good derech halimud(not Brisk) we use alot Leshotosai....
Stropkover "BTW So far 95% of מעשיות printed in SR name is in sync with his know opinions said verbally and in writting." I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well,, and keeps all his fiction on 1 track..
Stropkover "But in the torah in public he does not mention on whom that vort was directed! also is added other thoghts that we all know whom he mented, on whole list of topics like learning rambam, learning in english, does who learn without kabolos no less - actually he says know Nothing! - than does who have kabalas haoves But don't know how to learn etc. etc." Do we a explicit torah yes or no? what about Rambam????
... Many examples from r steinzaltz perushim were braught in a jewish observer article 25 years ago( apProx) The letter was published about that time also... There he admitted many mistake and bad judgement and offered a full refund for returned copies... Rav aaron feldman, rosh yeshiva נר ישראל baltimore has a chapter in his book eye of the storm bringing other examples...
Zeir Sham Did the Jewish Observer or Feldman do a expose on Nadel or On Aish? Is only Stiensalzes blood pale... Did Feldman write some chidushie torah too? or only hate and marriage counseling books?
Zeir Sham "The letter was published about that time also... There he admitted many mistake and bad judgement" Does Stienzalts admit to your earlier"halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons." ??
Tibi Lotzi: you forget that in a good derech halimud(not Brisk) we use alot Leshotosai....'
Tibi Lotzi, Tomshover, whatever.. It's all Zeir sham! You forget that you are not talking about your peer! I have had a little window already on your psych, משל למהד"ד Two people got lost in the woods, one has enough food and water for a day only, The other one has food and water for a week, Yet The one with supplies for a day only got out! The other one perished! Why because the first had a compass the other one didn’t. S"R z"l HAD A COMPASS! Where we came from and where we are heading you and I Don’t it's simple as that:
אם לא תדעי לך היפה בנשים צאי לך בעקבי הצאן, ורעי את גדיותיך
The torah was given במ"ט פנים לכאן ולכאן and it's being learned like that, Only the pious tzadigim with the right compass know that he has to get out from the woods by going 'east' and is וכמו"כ חותך הדין that don't mean you can't חותך הדיןto west! and sometimes even better But it won’t get you out of the wilderness! This is not my thought I have seen it in כלי יקר somewhere, and also כך קבלתי מאבותי ורבותי, וד"ב
"I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well" No he doesn't but he has an ear and listens up! Unlike some who listen only לקנתר.
"Do we a explicit torah yes or no? what about Rambam????" Yes I do! What about the Rambam! Everything I'm telling you is bonified (usually..) Yes on the lubab and yes on the rambam! But they are long talks and no one line answers, maybe next time..
Oh holy stropkover, teach me how to tell who's a real tzadik. Please I beg of you! You seem to really be in the know. I just wonder if the shefa chaim of tzanz would agree with you
Stropkover ""I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well" No he doesn't but he has an ear and listens up! Unlike some who listen only "
Did the Geler Badchan have a compass when he worked for the Birech moshe too? and he was badchening that malochim serofom are appearing by the birechs moshes mitzva tatz? Or he only found his compass when he his for hire by the Zupnicks and Yakabovichlech...
stropkover Is it a Stropkover minhag ro finish the Klie Yoker on a weekly basis, like Ohr Hachaim by other chasidim? Its a very good vort. but who am I to say...
Lukshin kugel: "In ver is du der groiseh mayvin on who's דומה למלאך? Whoever cries louder by shalosh sedis torah?" "Tzig, why did you edit out my baby skin at 80comment?" THANKS TZIG! חד גדיא!
That will not work since your forbearer rebbe the kookoo rebbe cried to, so did your DY and SC! So you may not have the instinct to differentiate between real tears and crocodile tears!
In another thread you wrote you are 'the lucky one' that you and grandfather left the 'fold' twice!? So stay with your 'lucky strikes' brand bye.
?ידע שור קונהו וימירו את כבודם בתבנית שור אוכל עשב
you guys really live in a bubble! most charedisher yiden DO NOT think that sr was "Tsadik hador". it was all due to the sakmar terrosim that silenced most other krayzin in to silence. i remember growing up learning in a chassidesher chayder, being fed this crap "SR is tzadik hador". farvus? farven? nothing. vahl er shrayt der hechster? gimme a break! ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel hatzlucheh in a sach terrostin
& last but not least, our jewish memory is quite healthy. we will not forget so soon all the maasim toivim inderheim in krula vchu" as well as here in america.
lukshin kigel lkuvid shabbos: koidesh said: "ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel hatzlucheh in a sach terrostin" "i remember growing up learning in a chassidesher chayder, being fed this crap "SR is tzadik hador". farvus? farven? " "we will not forget so soon all the maasim toivim inderheim in krula vchu"
You imply you're from krula yet you still learned in cheder here in america thats a little strech isn't it? do u also know something about the 'masim tovim' of other chasidus like lubab,belz fin amul & belz of today,wiznitzs-siget , viznitz motele-moshele,kossin, or from litvishe 'masim tovim' like in ponovitz BMG Lakewood, etc. etc.? If u do be so kind to share it with us the new generation of no nothings!
"ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel hatzlucheh"
בגמרא ברכות: תנו רבנן שבעה דברים ציווה רבי עקיבא את רבי יהושע בנו... והוי משתדל עם האדם שהשעה משחקת לו
Keep quoting like the gemoro was written for you to use at your leisure. You can't handel the truth. But again, those years of tzadik hador nonsense are gone forever, never to return. Sorry, it is indeed ah groiseh rachmunis on you and those like you.
י-ם קיגעל "do u also know something about the 'masim tovim' of other chasidus like lubab,belz fin amul & belz of today,wiznitzs-siget , viznitz motele-moshele,kossin, or from litvishe 'masim tovim' like in ponovitz BMG Lakewood, etc. etc.? If u do be so kind to share it with us the new generation of no nothings!" I know all of your list, but nobody have put jew on jew hate in the curriculum as Satnmar did so successfully in their educational system. Non of the above are breathing Jew on Jew hate as Ursheve Krule Satmar... Nobody nobody....
88 comments:
Rabbi Yitzchok Yosef Lerner (author of Shmiras HaGuf V'HaNefesh) lambasted the members of his Kollel for not attending the Levaya of the Vishnitzer Rebbe zy"a. He himself was there. He also did not like that people did not go to the Levaya of the Kedoshim who died in Yeshivas Mercaz HaRav Kook.
Is Lerner chasidic or r"l misnagdic?
In the 1980s the Reichmans donated a large sum to yeshives and put Rav Shach in charge of the distribution. There was a rumor at the time that when Vizhnitz came cap in hand Moron's response was "far kugel un tsholen gib ich nit". Perhaps his disciples have a similar policy in relation to funerals.
the same happened at the levaya of R' Shimon Lelover who everyone acknowledged as a true tzaddik. it was motzei yom kippur, bein hazmanim, so no bittul teyreh was involved. look at the pics and there's hardly anyone without a chassidishe rekel.
tzig: היכן נעלמו כובעי הקנייטש מהלווית האדמו"ר
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להתראות אצל
הרב אלישב שיחי' פון היכל שלמה, מסדר הקידושין בחתונתו היה הרב הראשי!, 20שנה ישב בבית דין של הרבנות הראשית!, למרות התנגדותם של החזון איש והרב מבריסק למוסדות הרבנות הראשית
!שתתארגן ע"י מפלגות דגל התורה
Ende Tsadik: Moron's response was "far kugel un tsholen gib ich nit".
פון מארן'ס ישיבה איז ארויס טאקע גרויסע גדולים
און פון רייכמאן'ס 'מעמדות' איז גיווארן מיטאמאל קיין קטנים
I assume he means Litvishe Kneitshes, not Lubavitcher...
read his right up, lubavitchers arent even a point of discussion they are michitz lemachnay
קנייטש הוט -- שתתארגן ע"י מפלגות דגל התורה
תורה תורה חגרי שק והתפלשי באפרים
מי יגלה עפר מעיני החזו"א והרב מבּריסק!
קנייטש הוט said... מסדר הקידושין בחתונתו היה הרב הראשי!
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הרב אלישיב בצעירותו היה קוק'ניק שרוף, הרב קוק היה המסדר קידושין שלו, ואף פדה את בנו בכורו, חמיו היה מנהיגם ורבם של הרוויזיוניסטים, האצ"ל, חרות, ודומיהם, וכאשר רבה של בריסק והחזון איש קראו למלחמה על 'הרבנות הראשית' וקבעו כי מדובר בשמד ממש, במקום שאפילו על המדרכה שלצד 'היכל שלמה' אסור לדרוך מפני שהמקום מטמא ממרחק, הרב אלישיב צפצף עליהם וישב בבית דין הגדול וקבל משכורת שמנה כדיין עד היום הזה
Lozmirup
Its interesting what you say about the Lelover levaye, since this both Rebbes the Visnitzer and Reb Shimele were gedolim in Nigleh too, but it does not matter for this Misnagdim..
Gedoilim in nigleh, a nechtign tog. Reb Moishele was a masmid and the lellover was a talmid chocom. Nebech if a chasidisher rebbe who knows which side to open a gemore is shoin a godel. What would that make Ahron T? A geon hageoinim?
Like the famous moshel the Brisker Rav told Reb Menachem Zemba about Rebbes וד"ל
בריסק'ער said..
"הרב אלישיב בצעירותו היה קוק'ניק שרוף, הרב קוק היה המסדר קידושין שלו, ואף פדה את בנו בכורו,"
you are nebech misinformed that by most erliche yiden all your long list is a plus, Rav Kook is considered as a Goan vetzadik, much larger the Rav Zonenfield,
There is some issues that many gedolim did not agree with him, as Most gedolim did not agree with the baal Veyoel Moshe
בריסק'ער said.
וכאשר רבה של בריסק והחזון איש קראו
למלחמה על 'הרבנות הראשית' וקבעו כי מדובר בשמד ממש, במקום שאפילו על המדרכה שלצד 'היכל שלמה' אסור לדרוך מפני שהמקום מטמא ממרחק
I don't think the Chazon Ish was involved in any shape with the Brisker Ruvs hangover on Hiechel Shloma...
Rav Elieshev had all the right to disagree with the brisker ruvs war on Hiechel Shloma. the Satmar Ruv disagreed on the all brisker derech halimud of brisk....Only Kanoais is a field that everyone has to be on the same page....I believe Rav Elieshev has a other opinion.He was there and did not see it a as a problem, History has proven that Rav Elieshev was correct 100%, it was only a plus for the yiddishkiet status in artzieni Hakodesh
Admit it that it was a mistake and stop harping on it.
If there is any Rebbe who was "Anti Litvish", it is the late Vishitser Rebbe.
From the second comment of the previous thread "i know he hated the rosh yeshiva hayodua of bnei brak.. "
And you want to know why Litvish didnt show? He was always the example of a Rebbe who exsists only becuase his father was a Rebbe!!
Rav alyashuv נ.י. Himself regretted the the rabanut after he saw what wraught goren... Read the שקדן...
rehov slonim 11: "Rav alyashuv נ.י. Himself regretted the the rabanut after he saw what wraught goren"
Did he stop taking their pension checks to? or was it just a personal issue with goren?
Twistelton-Twistelton: "And you want to know why Litvish didnt show?"
Is it maybe because he expelled ר'גדלי' נאדעל מחשובי תלמידי החזו"א with the שני מאות איש שלא כרעו לבעל?
Rav alyashuv שליטא was very upset with shmita , gerut ,( not only the army gerut scandal A few mobths ago). עיין שם
Rehov slonim 11 : "Rav alyashuv שליטא was very upset with shmita , gerut'
זכותו תעמוד לו לרפו"ש בתשח"י
No direct connection to this thread, but I believe R' Hirshel (as well as many of teh readers here) will be mehaneh from the blog linked below. It's hafotzas hamaayonos to the masses, in their shprach yet durchgetohn, and there are comments of those thirsty fro more understanding too. It's been around for just a few months, but gantz shein..:
http://www.chabad.org/blogs/blog_cdo/aid/1723575/jewish/Hasidology.htm
This hasidology טינופת may soon wind up on broadway with the יושבי קרנות of the Jewish Theological Seminary on Broadway corner W 122nd
Hasidology,
bist an echter ferd. You must be thick around the skull. It's very basic inyunim discussed there, but you couldn't manage. Nu, why am i beating a dead horse?
So sad to see this primitive tribal Shlegerie come to a whimpering end. Keep the Litvish, Chasidish , Lubavitch Katnus going.
More Satmar garbage on Tziynosihe Rebbes
More Litvishe garbage on Rebbishe Amoratzim
More Lubavitcher garbage about garbage.
Ihr Hut Alle Mehr Vi Genig Tzi Shaymen Zikh, but its always best to deflect from that reality by Klopping a Tzviete Yid
Keep the cards and letters coming, folks
Kugel: “bist an echter ferd” “why am i beating a dead horse?”
? הפתיחה אינו מעין הסתומה
בהקדמה להתניא 'הנדפסה' כתוב: אך ביודעי ומכירי קאמינא אשר 'עליהם' תטוף מלתי!, בהסכמה להתניא הר"ר זושא זצ"ל כותב שלא הי' ברצונו של התניא זצ"ל להדפוסו! קומט א מאן דהו בכוחו הגדול of psycho babble and will explain until blue in his face on a web blog what חסידות is-was-should be! Cut the crap! Stick to your overnite Kugel.
אל תהיו כסוס כפרד אין הבין
BelzFinAMool: whatever ...
How does a BelzFinAMool survive not sat-lubab-litvk Not even belz of today? Is it that your'e עוג מלך הבשן הנשאר מיתר הרפאים? If so is it in hight or grid?
תניא אז דו פארשטייסט נישט וואס דער בעל התניא האט נישט געוואלט דרוקן
און וואס יענער שרייבט (וואס בכלל לא קרב זה אל זה )
דארף'ן מי ליידן אז דו ביסט א פארשטאפטן קאפ און דו פארשטייסט ניט?
Twistleton
"He was always the example of a Rebbe who exsists only becuase his father was a Rebbe!!"
I am no Viznitzer chosid at all, but with this rebbe you got it wrong, Reb Chaim Maeir Hagers 2 sons were considered Murem Meam and Gedoilm beTorah in their in Grossverdien,
Reb Moshe Hager hated misnagdim, but he was a big masmid and nice lamdan.
He as a serious possek in his kehila in Vilechovits in Romania and serious Rav and Rosh yeshiva in Benai Berak. He could of get all his positions without being a rebishe kind.
שועת ישראל
Is it maybe because he expelled ר'גדלי' נאדעל מחשובי תלמידי החזו"א with the שני מאות איש שלא כרעו לבעל?
Reb Gedalye Nadel was considered in benai nbearak in his latter years as apikores, the only reason the BB establishment did not expose and attach him because he was from Unzere (Anash)the Chazon Ishes closest disciple. His hashkofas were total off the wall on Kadmos Olem, on chazal...
The Great tzadikim only knew to ostracize the big goan and tzadik Rav Steiensaltz who used some cool language on chazal for a secular crowd printed by open university..Its language used constantly on the Aish site for instance...
The Visnitzer Rebiem had Siyaya Deshmie to get rid of Rav Nadel in his early days of his kefira.Many of his talmidim ended up as semi kofrim as Moshe Ber Beck that has Heilige goyim but a kofer and a rotzeach, and so the other leader that I will not talk since he is Shochen ofer....
Tibi Lotzi: "שועת ישראל"
!שועת עניים, וצעקת הדל אני תשמע
Was he a bigger apikoras than your kookrika kook!?
לעלובער מלאך said...
תניא אז דו פארשטייסט נישט וואס דער בעל התניא האט נישט געוואלט דרוקן
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?תלו תניא בדלא תניא
Tibi Lotzi: "The Visnitzer Rebiem had Siyatya Deshmie to get rid of Rav Nadel"
And of 200+ his talmidim?! לשיטתך ממנ"פ was reb gedalya an apikoras He trew out 200+ talmidim because they got infected with apikosem like reb moshe ber? that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele?!
Or because reb gedalya learned with his talmidim in clandestine ויוא"מ which inspired them to protest against reb moshele's sending his daughters learning and speaking hebrew?! that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele either ?!
BTW
הנפטר דידן כתב בצוואתו
בלשה"ק,ובקשתי מאוד שהדיבור השפראך בביתכם יהא בנוי על יסוד האידיש ולא בעברית
ישועות ישראל
And of 200+ his talmidim?! לשיטתך ממנ"פ was reb gedalya an apikoras He trew out 200+ talmidim because they got infected with apikosem like reb moshe ber? that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele?!
Sorry I am too dumb to get your question?
"Or because reb gedalya learned with his talmidim in clandestine ויוא"מ which inspired them to protest against reb moshele's sending his daughters learning and speaking hebrew?! that's nothing to be proud of reb moshele either ?!"
I would not be proud that Nadel, Pal and Beck would be the Mafitzie Veyoel Moshe, unless Kanoias is Methar as Hashertez as it did with the Homosexual Dahan Hashem Yinokem Domai.
Historically, check out the families of reb moshele holy daughters and the fruits of the trio......
Don"t touch that subject its very touchy...
?תלו תניא בדלא תניא
another great quote from our inhouse Hebraic/Aramic quotemiester
Menashe Fulop"
?תלו תניא בדלא תניא
another great quote from our inhouse Hebraic/Aramic quotemiester
Sorry menashe'la It's not my quote SR z"l said it once on some quote.. from the lubab rebbe!
Menashe Fulop: "Sorry I am too dumb to get your question?"
That's about the only sentence that made sense in your ramblings
Gut Arien Gezugt... but no Loshen Kodesh...
Menashe Fulop: "Gut Arien Gezugt... but no Loshen Kodesh..."
Tzig used the worst curses in another thread or harav 'Menashe Fulop' and some where in Loshen Kodesh so you can pick the one suited you most! I would say this phenomenon attacking/killing tzadigim from behind the net/wall is beyond 'Gut Arien Gezugt' its a:מכה אשר לא כתובה בתורה
מכה אשר לא כתובה בתורה זו 'מיתת' צדיקים
The reason they left R' Gedalya alone is because although most people who question kadmus ha'olam are really tring to undermine the fundamentals of Torah, R' Gedalya was clearly not. They knew this from his Torah and his personal life. Others (nameless) have continued this path to all kinds of weird belief system. You can see their blogs for confirmation. R' Gedalya was a talmid chochom muflag and I know some of his talmidim as muflagim.
BTW, even if you classify R' Moshe Ber Beck as a rotzeiach (where is the nirtzach, a victimless crime!) how is he a kofer? I do not believe in his ideas, but he does not look like a kofer, just mistaken.
Tanya, why are you stuck on what was 200 years ago? 200 years later, you have on the one side those that say נשתכחה, & on the other side you have those who areמפיץ more & more.
You may stay on the נשתכחה side. I don't think anybody will miss you.
But my main point is, that just as r chaim vital writes in his time מצוה לגלות זאת החכמה when up to then it was extremely hidden, so it is now. As we get closer to end of days, it's getting more & more revealed. But i'm afraid i'm dealing with someone who is just cynical.
1) r steinzaltz says things which we have halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons. He addmited his mistake in a letter to the eidah haradit.
2) r dahan was a BT... If not he could have been blackmailed instead of assasanated.
kigel lkuvid shabbos koidesh 10:50
"You may stay on the נשתכחה side. I don't think anybody will miss you."
As long as you already started to eat your shabos kugel (I assume its overnite kugel) on "Monday 10:50:00 PM" all is נשתכחה!
..שמנת עבית כשית ויטוש
kigel lkuvid shabbos koidesh:"it's getting more & more revealed.."
No kidding! any 'new revelations' on the פרה אדומה lately?
ולמכסה עתיק, זה המכסה דברים שכסה עתיק יומיא ומאי נינהו
i know what the rebbe said about this subject & now i know your "very educated" opinion.
now lemme think... chochom atik or the rebbe?
sorry, it's not even a question.
but you shaygitz, maybe it's time for you to stop quoting zohar & start being a bit humble when confronted with the opinion of someone who rubboy kekuloy shel klal yisroel accepts as a tzaddik.
& tshivah on chatas ne'irim could surely help in this case.
kigel vchu' said: "chochom atik or the rebbe? sorry, it's not even a question. but you shaygitz, maybe it's time for you to stop quoting zohar"
When Kigel & Kugel talks people listen! But מתוך כעסך בא לידי טעות which rebbe are you reffering to what is he said you know so well? What zohar was quoted? Have some more kugal and relax.
"tshivah on chatas ne'irim could surely help in this case." OUCH!
פסחים קיט
מאי למכסה עתיק זה המכסה דברים שכיסה עתיק יומין ומאי נינהו סתרי תורה
No Zohar, Just a gemorah in פסחים
okay, granted. but l'etzem hoinyan have you got anything to say?
& the rambam clearly paskens ולא יהיה עסק כל העולם, אלא לדעת את ה' בלבד.
& from bash"t and on this started & as printed In the toldos the letter from bash"t re יפוצו..
you know good & well which rebbe i'm referring to
kigel said: "okay, granted. but l'etzem hoinyan have you got anything to say?"
What is the etzem hoinyan Kigel or Kugel? Tzadigim eat kugel on shabbos why? Because after eating the kugel the break out in a circling dance to show Just like in a circle all are equal! לעתיד
we are all gonna be equal to!
כעגול כ'גיגל
מיוסד על חז"ל: עתיד הקב"ה לעשות מחול לצדיקים כעגול, מה עגול אין לא ראש וסוף
I wish the kugel can talk Because I have no clue what he refers to.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=30546&pgnum=383
learn with an open mind
Tanya
"Sorry menashe'la It's not my quote SR z"l said it once on some quote.. from the lubab rebbe!"
its a revisionist lie he never spoke about Lubavicher ?Rebbe
kigel l'kuvid shabbos koidesh :
"learn with an open mind"
Is there something 'you' want to say ?
Yankel
"The reason they left R' Gedalya alone is because although most people who question kadmus ha'olam are really tring to undermine the fundamentals of Torah, R' Gedalya was clearly not. They knew this from his Torah and his personal life. Others (nameless) have continued this path to all kinds of weird belief system. You can see their blogs for confirmation. R' Gedalya was a talmid chochom muflag and I know some of his talmidim as muflagim."
You are denying the obvious...
Yankel
"BTW, even if you classify R' Moshe Ber Beck as a rotzeiach (where is the nirtzach, a victimless crime!) how is he a kofer? I do not believe in his ideas, but he does not look like a kofer, just mistaken."
Malhivin bemalachie elkim is a kofer according to the rmbam, but transgressing the 3 oaths is no kofer accordingthe rambam, he is a poresh min hatzibur(Klal Yisroel) Ein Loi Chelek leOlam haBoi
Zeir Sham
") r steinzaltz says things which we have halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons. "
where does he say it?
Did he put the above quote for the Eidah, or he wrote a letter on all his writing?
Zeir shom
"r dahan was a BT... If not he could have been blackmailed instead of assasanated."
he still wrote homo letters till the end of his life,
How may homos do you know that were healed?
If he was blackmailed then Hertzel was blackmailed too... let him also be a tzadik..
Tomshover: "its a revisionist lie he never spoke about Lubavicher ?Rebbe"
Here he comes again! "he never spoke about Lubavicher rebbe" Except he did on many occasions, with many live witnesses on it! I poses a torah that he repeats from a private conversation on the lubab rebbe.
מלתא דעבודי לגלוי לא משקרי אנשי
Tomshover: "You are denying the obvious"
Sorry for intervening,
So R' Gedalya a talmid from the chazon eish with hundreds of
תלמידים, ת"ח ירו"ש מפיצי תו"י
is an apikoras! Because of his convoluted shita in kadmus ha'olam But kook is what?
Stropkover
I personally am not in the apikorsim production business,its not my forte and not my families.
But I am only talking to a certain segment in Klal Yisroel that are obsessed in hunting down apikorsim, that they lost a opportunity of a big fish.
His Ideas were convoluted on all principles that were holy in mainstream orthodoxy.He was against the printing of chidushie torah that he wrote in his youth.The family printed it,despite his condemnations, they needed their father as a accepted Godal with 2 large black volumes with Rashi buch shtaben Benai Berak Style.
Stropkover
"Here he comes again! "he never spoke about Lubavicher rebbe" Except he did on many occasions, with many live witnesses on it! I poses a torah that he repeats from a private conversation on the lubab rebbe."
I would love to see it, please scan it to the circus editorial board for publication..
The only place that I know that he mentions the Ideas of Lubavicher Rebbe Zy"a, is in the Al Hegeulah about Mivtza Tefilin and the Balie Teshuva... Maybe it was a torah first and then put in the sefer, since a big part of the sefer was first said by Rava deRaven.
Plz don't get offended by not believing anything said in Satmar Ruv A"H name, since not believing in stories and nissim are his hallmark dogmas
Tomshover: "Plz don't get offended by not believing anything said in Satmar Ruv A"H name, since not believing in stories and nissim are his hallmark dogmas"
There is no problem if you never believe any stories in SR name, and you believe only in what 'he' writes! But why do you believe and quote all באבא מעשיות from others when it suits your agenda! perhaps חכמים הם להרע ולהטיב לא ידעו, ח"ו perhaps a little double standard?
BTW So far 95% of מעשיות printed in SR name is in sync with his know opinions said verbally and in writting.
I have a ש"ס תורה in possesion copied from a tape BTW 'I was present when he said it' where he repeats something that he said in a 'talk' specifically on the Lubab rebbe! and he mentions it by saying "I already said it before" But in the torah in public he does not mention on whom that vort was directed! also is added other thoghts that we all know whom he mented, on whole list of topics like learning rambam, learning in english, does who learn without kabolos no less - actually he says know Nothing! - than does who have kabalas haoves But don't know how to learn etc. etc.
stropkover
"There is no problem if you never believe any stories in SR name, and you believe only in what 'he' writes! But why do you believe and quote all באבא מעשיות from others when it suits your agenda! perhaps חכמים הם להרע ולהטיב לא ידעו, ח"ו perhaps a little double standard? "
you forget that in a good derech halimud(not Brisk) we use alot Leshotosai....
Stropkover
"BTW So far 95% of מעשיות printed in SR name is in sync with his know opinions said verbally and in writting."
I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well,, and keeps all his fiction on 1 track..
Stropkover
"But in the torah in public he does not mention on whom that vort was directed! also is added other thoghts that we all know whom he mented, on whole list of topics like learning rambam, learning in english, does who learn without kabolos no less - actually he says know Nothing! - than does who have kabalas haoves But don't know how to learn etc. etc."
Do we a explicit torah yes or no?
what about Rambam????
... Many examples from r steinzaltz perushim were braught in a jewish observer article 25 years ago( apProx)
The letter was published about that time also... There he admitted many mistake and bad judgement and offered a full refund for returned copies...
Rav aaron feldman, rosh yeshiva נר ישראל baltimore has a chapter in his book eye of the storm bringing other examples...
Zeir Sham
Did the Jewish Observer or Feldman do a expose on Nadel or On Aish?
Is only Stiensalzes blood pale...
Did Feldman write some chidushie torah too? or only hate and marriage counseling books?
Zeir Sham
"The letter was published about that time also... There he admitted many mistake and bad judgement"
Does Stienzalts admit to your earlier"halacha moshe mi sinai were developed for economic/ social/ pcychollogical reasons." ??
Zeir sham
After all Stienzaltzes problem, I still believe he is bigger mamin behashem then this litvak Feldmamn....and many more Litvak,,,,
Tibi Lotzi: you forget that in a good derech halimud(not Brisk) we use alot Leshotosai....'
Tibi Lotzi, Tomshover, whatever.. It's all Zeir sham! You forget that you are not talking about your peer! I have had a little window already on your psych, משל למהד"ד Two people got lost in the woods, one has enough food and water for a day only, The other one has food and water for a week, Yet The one with supplies for a day only got out! The other one perished! Why because the first had a compass the other one didn’t. S"R z"l HAD A COMPASS! Where we came from and where we are heading you and I Don’t it's simple as that:
אם לא תדעי לך היפה בנשים צאי לך בעקבי הצאן, ורעי את גדיותיך
The torah was given במ"ט פנים לכאן ולכאן and it's being learned like that, Only the pious tzadigim with the right compass know that he has to get out from the woods by going 'east' and is וכמו"כ חותך הדין that don't mean you can't חותך הדיןto west! and sometimes even better But it won’t get you out of the wilderness! This is not my thought I have seen it in כלי יקר somewhere, and also כך קבלתי מאבותי ורבותי, וד"ב
"I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well"
No he doesn't but he has an ear and listens up! Unlike some who listen only לקנתר.
"Do we a explicit torah yes or no?
what about Rambam????"
Yes I do! What about the Rambam! Everything I'm telling you is bonified (usually..) Yes on the lubab and yes on the rambam! But they are long talks and no one line answers, maybe next time..
אם הרב דומה למלאך ה' צבאות יבקשו תורה מפיהו
In ver is du der groiseh mayvin on who's דומה למלאך? Whoever cries louder by shalosh sedis torah?
Or maybe whoever has baby skin at age 80?
Oh holy stropkover, teach me how to tell who's a real tzadik.
Please I beg of you!
You seem to really be in the know.
I just wonder if the shefa chaim of tzanz would agree with you
Tzig, why did you edit out my baby skin at 80 comment? I thought it's brilliant. As they always use it to prove his דומה status.
Stropkover
""I guess to the credit of the yellow badchan, he knows the derech halimud well"
No he doesn't but he has an ear and listens up! Unlike some who listen only "
Did the Geler Badchan have a compass when he worked for the Birech moshe too? and he was badchening that malochim serofom are appearing by the birechs moshes mitzva tatz? Or he only found his compass when he his for hire by the Zupnicks and Yakabovichlech...
stropkover
Is it a Stropkover minhag ro finish the Klie Yoker on a weekly basis, like Ohr Hachaim by other chasidim?
Its a very good vort. but who am I to say...
Helllo?! Where are all the chasidim at rav shrub bergs levaya ?! Before you go ballistic do your homework
Lukshin kugel: "In ver is du der groiseh mayvin on who's דומה למלאך? Whoever cries louder by shalosh sedis torah?" "Tzig, why did you edit out my baby skin at 80comment?" THANKS TZIG! חד גדיא!
That will not work since your forbearer rebbe the kookoo rebbe cried to, so did your DY and SC! So you may not have the instinct to differentiate between real tears and crocodile tears!
In another thread you wrote you are 'the lucky one' that you and grandfather left the 'fold' twice!? So stay with your 'lucky strikes' brand bye.
?ידע שור קונהו
וימירו את כבודם בתבנית שור אוכל עשב
Lukshin kugel: "teach me how to tell who's a real tzadik"
"Whoever cries louder by shalosh sedis torah?"
I'm not a מיסור זאגער Suggestion: It's not the rebbes cries that will help! as much It's 'your' cries that may help.
!ידע שור קונהו וחמור אבוס בעליו
you guys really live in a bubble! most charedisher yiden DO NOT think that sr was "Tsadik hador". it was all due to the sakmar terrosim that silenced most other krayzin in to silence.
i remember growing up learning in a chassidesher chayder, being fed this crap "SR is tzadik hador". farvus? farven? nothing. vahl er shrayt der hechster?
gimme a break!
ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel hatzlucheh in a sach terrostin
& last but not least, our jewish memory is quite healthy. we will not forget so soon all the maasim toivim inderheim in krula vchu" as well as here in america.
lukshin kigel lkuvid shabbos: koidesh said: "ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel hatzlucheh in a sach terrostin" "i remember growing up learning in a chassidesher chayder, being fed this crap "SR is tzadik hador". farvus? farven? "
"we will not forget so soon all the maasim toivim inderheim in krula vchu"
You imply you're from krula yet you still learned in cheder here in america thats a little strech isn't it? do u also know something about the 'masim tovim' of other chasidus like lubab,belz fin amul & belz of today,wiznitzs-siget , viznitz motele-moshele,kossin, or from litvishe 'masim tovim' like in ponovitz BMG Lakewood, etc. etc.? If u do be so kind to share it with us the new generation of no nothings!
"ah ingerishe ruv mit a abissel
hatzlucheh"
בגמרא ברכות: תנו רבנן שבעה דברים ציווה רבי עקיבא את רבי יהושע בנו... והוי משתדל עם האדם שהשעה משחקת לו
Keep quoting like the gemoro was written for you to use at your leisure.
You can't handel the truth.
But again, those years of tzadik hador nonsense are gone forever, never to return.
Sorry, it is indeed ah groiseh rachmunis on you and those like you.
All of frankels contortions in the ami are too little too late.
י-ם קיגעל
"do u also know something about the 'masim tovim' of other chasidus like lubab,belz fin amul & belz of today,wiznitzs-siget , viznitz motele-moshele,kossin, or from litvishe 'masim tovim' like in ponovitz BMG Lakewood, etc. etc.? If u do be so kind to share it with us the new generation of no nothings!"
I know all of your list, but nobody have put jew on jew hate in the curriculum as Satnmar did so successfully in their educational system.
Non of the above are breathing Jew on Jew hate as Ursheve Krule Satmar...
Nobody nobody....
Lukshin
"והוי משתדל עם האדם שהשעה משחקת לו"
if mu mind serves me well Chazal say it on a Rosho....
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