Thursday, November 22, 2007

When Yeshivas Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin celebrated 100 years -------


(Reb A.M. Shechter)

------- They forgot about one guy

It's quite a book, by the way, a "coffee table" thing with a boatload of history, and some fascinating pictures too, but for some reason they couldn't remember that he had spent 15 years under their employment. They have names and pictures of Rebbes, Melamdim and Teachers going back to the teens and 20's. They have newspaper articles from that same time period heralding all kinds of events and stories about the Yeshivah, but no mention of him. They mention the secular studies teachers, principals, the food providers and the fundraisers, but no mention of him. As far as the current leadership is concerned, and as far as the annals of history tell the story, He never as much as spent one day there. Why was he Zoycheh to such treatment?

Reb Shlomo shlit"a ben Reb Yosef Tzvi HaYa"d Carlebach. He was quite a personality from what I understand, a prime disciple of the late Rabbi Isaac Hutner from the very early days, and a man that spent many years there, but he never made it to the book that celebrated its long history. He incurred their wrath forever, and was deleted forever. Let's examine this further, shall we?

According to the Wiki article he had a falling out with the Hanholas HaYeshivah when Rabbi Hutner left to Eretz Yisroel to build a Yeshivah there. He was seemingly promised the position of Mashgiach Ruchni and figured that now was the time for the promise to be fulfilled. But Reb Aron Shechter and his SIL Reb Yonason David would have none of that, they made it known that he was no longer welcome in the hallowed halls of The "Gur Aryeh Institute." So Reb Shlomo went and did what many of us would do, he called the current Moetzes Member to a Din Torah, and not just anywhere, but to the Agudas HaRabbonim, then under the leadership of HaRav Moshe Feinstein z"l.

Some people do see themselves as being above the law, believe it or not, and the YRCB clan was from those people. The term used in Wiki is quite cute; "Rabbi Carlebach attempted to bring the termination of his employment and the manner in which it was done to adjudication with various batei din ("Jewish religious courts") but Rabbi Hutner maintained that he was not subject to such proceedings in this instance." In other words, Nisht em meint men. Yes, some people need to listen to Hazmonos, and especially when they're called to DT by the Godol HaDor, but not them. So Reb Shlomo found himself without a job, and to his credit never took it to the secular courts, like they do today at the Yeshivah on the hill in Ir HaTeyreh Bene Beraq. Nobody - I guess - saw anything wrong with ignoring Hazmonos to DT, and one of them is even considered to have Daas Torah by the late Reb Moshe Sherer, an alumnus of YRCB, who rewarded him by putting him on the Moetzes. And so, my friends, that in a nutshell is the story of Reb Shlomo the Rabbi and not the musician, a man who like Al Gore, came oh-so-close to being the next Mashgiach of Yeshivas Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin. In his place was put the late Reb Shimon Groner, cousin of Leibel, a grandson of the Alter and Mitteler Rebbes, but a Misnaged vi in posuk shteit.

64 comments:

AMSHINOVER said...

these are heavy allegations any proof ?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Proof?! I don't need no stinkin' proof.

What would you like to see? What would satisfy your need for proof?

Anonymous said...

why not ask pinny carlbach for copies of the hazmonos ?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I don't know the man.

friendly anonymous said...

Where did he go, and what did he do, after he lost his job?

Hirshel Tzig said...

read the Wiki piece linked here.

Ma'aravah said...

I spoke to his daughter (a friend of my family) about the mayseh. He WAS the mashgiach ruchni before RH left. If I remember correctly, she said that he was hoping to become the RY after RH left. After R' Aharon was appointed RY, R' Shlomo felt it would be humiliating to remain as menahel next to his chaver the RY, so he wanted to remain there without any official title.

baalbatish said...

AMSHINOVER said...
these are heavy allegations any proof ?

Friday, November 23, 2007 10:22:00 AM

Hirshel Tzig said...
Proof?! I don't need no stinkin' proof.

What would you like to see? What would satisfy your need for proof?

Friday, November 23, 2007 10:24:00 AM
_____________________________
Whoa, the rage!
Is that the way to treat the great ex-blogger Amshinover?. You should be honored that he reads & comments on your site.

Faivel said...

Vehn deehr Toireh hot ge'asert loshon horah oon rechilus nisht der Tzig hot mehn gemeynt?
Voo iz R'Yaisef Dov yetst?Ihz ehr nor faran ven mehn baredt Lubavitch?

Guravitzer said...

You've piqued my curiosity - in velche posuk shteit?

esther said...

Wasn't Carlbach and Lubavitcher?

Yechi said...

While you read the Wiki piece, look up the 'interesting' history about Lubab that they don't want you to know.
Lubavitch=They used to say it was the closest religion to Judaism.It ain't that close anymore.

mashgiach woes at chaim berlin said...

Whoa! There IS a silver lining grada...someone showed me the Yeshiva Chaim Berlin "Story of a Century" year book that you mention (have you really scrutinized every page...only an alumnus could really appreciate it and its details) and in it, on page 65, on the same page that there's a big picture of Rav Avigdor Miller who was the original mashgiach of the yeshiva before Rav Hutner appointed Rav Carlebach, on that page 65 there is also a large picture of the bochurim at "Rabbi Moshe Ebstein's wedding Elul 26, 5712" and in it in the row "Standing (L to R) the seventh one: "Shlomo Carlebach" with name mentioned, printed and presented in the official book. So it was sort of a chidush and a sign that they could at least publish a picture of him.

But the fact remains that it was a terrible machlokes, and not the first in yeshivas. Why does Chabad think it's any better, after all look what they did to Barry Gurary and made ash un blotte out of him, for what? 'cause the Rebbe didn't want any competition down the line...and all the splits today in Satmar, Bobov, Vizhnitz

Anyhow, Rav Shlomo Carlebach was the Mashgiach Ruchani for about 12 years, but when Rav Hutner and his son-in-law went to settle in Yerushalayim to build their new "Pachad Yitzchok" yeshiva, they left Chaim Berlim Yeshiva in the hands of R. Aaron Schechter as the Rosh Yeshiva and Avrohom Fruchthandler as the President. Rav Carlebach was put in the tough situation of being forced to work UNDER Rav Schechter, as mashgiach and noone said he wanted to be Rosh Yeshiva, but he refused to be an "eved knani" to Reb Aaron.

Rav Hutner asked him if he would be prepared to be an "eved knani" under Rav Aaron and he told Rav Hutner (bzeh haloshen:) "I ain't no eved knani" --- so they told bachurim not to go to his chumash chaburas, then they told him to leave, and when he refused they took out his chair, table and shetender. He took them to a din Torah by Rav Moshe Feinstein and they refused to go. The rest is history.

Since then, Rav Carlebach has written five machshove seforim that are called "Maskil Lishlomo" on what he calls "Emunos VeDeios" in beautiful loshen kodesh. In style and content they are almost identical to Rav Hutner's Pachad Yitzchok seforim.

The intensity of the machlokes is still known by many people and there is still no sholem. It is assur to mention Rav Carlebach's
name in the Yeshiva Chaim Berlin.


When Rav Shimon Groner passed away after struggling for 25 years as Mashgiach Ruschani, Rav Shechter appointed his oldest son, Rav Mordechai Zelig Shechter as the new mashgiach ruchani of Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin.

Rav Yonasan David is still in Yerushalayim, but he comes to Chaim Berlin, where he sits in the front with Rav Shechter and they both say the Ma'amorim with Rav Hutner's Toyra on Pesach and Sukkos....

Moshe Sherer said...

You are wrong when you say: "the late Reb Moshe Sherer, an alumnus of YRCB, who rewarded him by putting him on the Moetzes" because Moshe Sherer went to Yeshiva Teira Voda'as and not Chaim Berlin.

Moshe (Morris) Sherer as a young talmid was under the guidance of Rav Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz who decided to send him to the Ner Yisroel yeshiva in Baltimore to learn by Rav Ruderman. The reason for that move was that Moshe Sherer had an older brother Harry Sherer who was once a very popular rebbe and English teacher in Toire Voda'as but something happened that disappointed him and he eventually became a Reform Rabbi in Las Vegas for a long time (this has always been a well-kept secret, that the head of Agudath Israel of America had a brother who was a Reform rabbi) and Rav Mendlowitz was afraid that Harry would influence Morris, so they sent young Morris away to keep him out of the clutches of his dynamic older brother.

So Moshe (Morris) Sherer never went to Chaim Berlin, his real Rebbe was Rav Yaakov Yitzchok Ruderman, and interestingly as long as Rav Ruderman was alive, Rav Aaron Shechter was not put into the Moetzes either. It was Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky who said that Rav Shchecter has "Da'as Toirah" and that they should listen to him, which they evidently still do, big time, and only after Rav Ruderman died did they install Rav Shechter.

There is an interesting side note that one of Reform Rabbi Harry Sherer's grandaughters became a serious Ba'alas Teshuva and married a real Ben Torah from the Chaim Berlin yeshiva who was a Baal Teshuva, and they are very respected people in the Lakewood yeshiva community today with a gantz groise, choshuve, feine mishpocheh. At their chasuneh, Harry and Morris met for the first time in a long time, but Morris refused to even look at his estranged older brother Harry. Yet Harry did have naches from his einikel becoming frum and even supported her when everyone else on her side of the family wanted to stop her from becoming frum. When the girl was becoming frum she had no idea who or what her great uncle Moshe/Morris Sherer was, but when she contacted him after becoming frum, it was very strange for all of them...is this what Moshiach tzeiten are about?

Boruch said...

The Rebbe gets the credit for the thousands of shluchim worldwide.Who gets the 'credit' for this slanderous piece?The Rebbe that's who!
If you want to claim that everything is from the Rebbes' strength it includes the wickedness of this She-goat.
He 'relies' on a Wiki article with out knowing another side,and, even if true, do they not believe in Lubavitch in loshon hora??
This wicked piece is done supposedly to 'defend' Lubavitch.(though truthfully what has this got to do with Lubavitch whether the story is true or not?I guess making somebody else 'lower' raises you??)
She goat:Make no mistake, you will be judged in the world to come for all the truth, half truths and utter lies you have spread here.So will your rebbe have to take partial blame.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

I got to tell you, when they started writing this book, Rav Aron Schecther said “stick to pictures, as our written history is too controversial”. Check out Rav Hutners Wikapedia entry for more on Chaim Berlin history. However, to be fair to Chaim Berlin, many families (such as the Pruskin family) refused to submit pics etc for the book. Maybe the Charlebachs did the same.

yehupitz said...

Some more pertinent facts:

The reason R Schechter and R Hutner refused the hazmono is that they were not goires R'Moshe.

Something unknown to the world at large (because the Satmar Rov became the public face of the dispute) is that when R'Moshe issued the Artificial Insemination Teshuva, R'Hutner wrote him off as a godol and was not goires him.

At Ner Israel, there was a private mesora that once when R'Ruderman and R'Hutner were sitting next to one another before a meeting, R'Moshe walked into the room and R'Ruderman was starting to rise when R'Hutner pushed hard on his seatmate's leg to stop him from rising.

It would make more sense to state that R Schechter could not get onto the Moetzes until R'Moshe, whose Beis-Din he defied, was niftar.

To understand R'Hutner's views on his rights as a Rosh Yeshiva, one would have to wait for a history of the Beis Hatalmud Yeshiva in Israel he led briefly with R'Schwartzman the ex-son-in-law of R Aharon Kotler.

Guravitzer said...

For the Gurary, when one engages in thievery one makes ash un blotte out of oneself, it is not done by others.

Anonymous said...

carlebach wasnt from the big three talmididm, schechter, freifeld and david, and the hutner way is that theres only one boss; beis yisroel of ger told m sherer that the chaim berlin way is the best way, even if there are victims, because then there isnt a hundred little machlokess. give cb credit for being the only yeshiva/chasidus to survive the death of their charismatic, larger than life leader and its cuz they all pledged allegiance to schechter.

Hirshel Tzig said...

so we learned the following from all the comments here:

1) That I'm a Baal Loshon Horah for quoting a Wiki piece.

2) That the Rebbe is to blame for myLoshon Horah

3) That Carlebach wasn't even from the "big" talmidim, which I guess makes him a nobody and Hazmonos LeDin sent upon his request may be ignored.

4) that Rav Hutner saw himself as the Godol HaDor.

VeKohenoh Rabbos

who says that only Rebbes fight?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Guravitzer:

You asked "in velche posuk shteit?" That's a good question, which posuk are we referring to? I'd say there are many that we can use, which one would you say is most appropriate?

Hirshel Tzig said...

so does RCB officially belong top the Shechters now?

will his son take over after 120?

or does Fruchthandler have a trick up his sleeve?

why did Pachad Yitzchok in Israel never materialize into anything?

freileche mentsch said...

r aron schechter has an eidem who will probabaly take over- what will be intersting is that he is a real frank- his name is haliwa and he is a true gaon- will the moetzes let a morrocn take over cb? the jury is still out on that one

Anonymous said...

She-goat,
Why is spreading rechilus and loshon horah permitted?
What difference does it make to you if true or not? Does it somehow raise your rebbes stature in any way?

I'm am surprised that people are not turned off by this pure wickedness.Riv, loi loi.

There is a well known vort that 'rishes' done in 'far Gots veggen' is the worst sort.
Remember that you will have to answer for this bebais din shelemaloh and so will your your rebbe.After all you have somehow understood from him that this is the proper way and it says in Pirkei Ovos 'chachomim hizoharu bedivreichem'.
Time to scour sefer 'Chofetz Chaim' for a defense.Now.One never knows when that day may come.
Veshuv yoim echod lifnei vechulu.
There is no reason to post this just think for a second and realize that what you are doing is negative is wicked even if you have some kind od misplaced 'heter'

Anonymous said...

Pachad Yitzchok didn't succeed in Yerushlaim, because Yerushalmis were in those days still mavinim on a fraud like ....

Barry Gurary said...

The machlokes that the Rebbe Mamosh had with me was just one side of the coin, haven't you ever read the post on the original "mental blog"?

You cannot "steal" what belongs to you. According to my mother I was entitled to the seforim of my Zeida, the Rebbe Yosef Yitzchok because I was his flesh and blood whilst my uncle was only in the family by marriage.

The ash un blotte they made out of me came a long time before the seforim case. The Rebbe started picking on me and driving me nuts from the time he came over to America. He obviously had an agenda.

The Rebbe worked long and hard to displace my father Reb Shmrayahu Gurary as my Zeide's favorite and put himself up as the "only" yoresh.

This whole affair was a very sorry one for everyone.

The Rebbe and Rav Hutner were friends and rivals and each in his own way had similar events happen to them.

The Rebbe made ash un blotte out his nephew Gurary and Rav Hutner made ash un bloette out Rav Carlebach.

That is what happens when people play God!

But at least I died in peace!

Chaim Berlin said...

Haliwa is just one member of the (Shechter) family in Chaim Berlin. Each of Rav Shechter's kids or eidims has a shtelle in the yeshiva: His oldest son Mordechai Zelig is now the official Mashgiach Ruchani (ony the 4th -- the 1st was Avigdor Miller, the 2nd was Shlomo Carlebach, the 3rd was Shimon Groner, but Rav Shlomo Freifeld also sereved for a short time as such in Far Rockaway before he made his own Shaar Yoshuv yeshiva.) His second son Noson Tzvi is in business but is the "official" mohel of the yeshiva. Two other sons-in-law, Yormark from Memphis and Sendrovitz from Boro Park, are magidei shiur and leaders in the Bais Medrash. And Rav Shechter's brother, Mendel, is the official "Secretary" of the yeshiva. Mendel Schechter's daughter is married to Avrohom Fruchnadler's oldest son. So everyone is one big happy family.

Haliwa is a big gaon but he is very eidel and not a fighter, if there is any fighting to be done down the line it will be by male Shechters.

In any case, as long as Rav Yonason David is alive, and because he is Rav Hutner's eidim, they cannot move against him because he is the chasane d'bei nesiah, and his wife Dr. Bruriah Hutner David is alive and well and running BJJ (Bais Yaakov of Yerushalyim) and has educated most the Chaim Berlin daughters.

The main problem the yeshiva faces is not from lack of hanhala, too many of its high school bochurim leave to go to other yeshivas and to eretz Yisroel and when they come back they go to Lakewood most of the time.

Anonymous said...

what next you going to bring up the toras hanazir debacle?

-AMSHINOVER

Hirshel Tzig said...

What? that he stole Toras HaNozir from his roommate the Divrei Yechezkel and claimed it as his own? that's nothing but a rumor. There's no proof to that. איי, They never learn Nozir in Chaim Berlin? so what, that's just a coincidence.

baalabus said...

lONG live HALIWA- THe israele's that profilerate in Chaim Berlin love him and they are much more easoned politicians than any American- witness the leben throwing in Ponovezh-he had the right men in place

Hirshel Tzig said...

Excuse me for asking, but why did RAMS need to take a "frenk" for an Eydem?! I mean, is that the best he could do? no Kotler or Svei or Kamenecki to his liking?

Or was di Mume Liba the shadchan here?

Anonymous said...

Not at all...Haliwa is a tzaddik. CB is much more cosmopolitan than Lakewood, and oen to Israeli's and African's, part of Rav Hutner's global vision...Haliwa is an up and coming star, though he is soft and gentle...maybe he really isnt a frenk at al, come to think of it.

CB belongs to the Fruchthandlers, no question about that. RAS is an employee.

An Ashkenazi admirer said...

Rav Shlomo Halioua is a direct ben acher ben descendant from a famous rishon on p'sachim, the Mahram Challava. Coming from dorei doros rabbonim maybe the question should be posed as to why he was willing to take the daughter of a one-generation talmid chochom as a mate and did not practice a little "reverse discrimination"? (don't think it doesn't exist).

IMO this shidduch is a breath of fresh air dispelling a lot of the stagnant, polluted atmosphere of racism, sectarianism and snobbery that is so prevalent in Charedi society today. (AKA sinas chinom by some modern fancy names). Maybe you'd prefer apartheid Frenk-Itchie playgrounds like they have in Emanuel:

http://www.keshet-tv.com/VideoPage.aspx?MediaID=25218&SourceID=23

http://www.news.msn.co.il/news/Internal/CultureEducation/200710/20071025065700.htm

http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2007/10/bais-yaakov-dapartheid.html

As for me...no thank you. I prefer the Chaim berlin model.

That 25 or so years ago RAMS picked an aidem based on the best talent available without regard to ethnic background is testimony to his own gadlus and a confirmation of the revolutionary-yet-within-the-Mesorah hallmark of Chaim Berlin.

Bob Barker said...

Touche' Mr. Admirer, Touche'

That should win you the comment of the day prize.

Tzig, tell him what he's won!

Anonymous said...

BTW the notion that Noson has a shtelle in the Yeshiva is laughable. A. He has no monopoly many other mohalim do bris'n in Yeshiva most notably R' Meir Eidelman who is prefereed by at least 25% of the Kolleleit B. All the years that the alter Mirrer Rav Moshe Bunim Pirutinsky was the nearly exclusive mohel in the Yeshiva no one EVER thought of him as a hanhala member.

An Ashkenazi admirer said...

Back to the original premise of the post and without rehashing the details of this particular "cold-case" makhlokes I don't know why you limit your charges of revisionist history to the affaur de Carlebach.

Rav Hutner z"l was feisty and made many enemies among both chaveirm/peers and talmidim. Harabbonim Shurkin, Cantor, Kleinkaufman, Shvartzman just to name a few. IMO the touchy-feely model for G'dolim (e.g. Rav Pam z"l) is not the only one that is valid. Rav Hutner's alienation of some do not diminish his stature in my eyes any more than do similar alienations by the Rambam, the Kotzker and the Satmar or, for thath matter the Ba'al Shem or the Ba'al HaTanya do. Different shorshei neshoma I guess.

As a matter of fact several years after moving to EY but back for a Yom Tov in America Rav Hutner was asked if he would be keeping Yom Tiv sheni and quipped lu mir nuhr zehn, ikh hob ah voinung in EY un ah voinung in America, ikh hob talmidim in EY un talmidim in America, ikh hob SONIM in EY un SONIM in America. Altz vuss ah mentsh darft hubin hub ikh in baida pletzer, verrt is guhr ah shvereh shaila

I believe it was Henry Ford who said "show me a man who's never made an enemy and I'll show you a man who's never made anything"

Chaim G. the BOF said...

Finally that you would ask a Yeshiva promoting itself after a century of existence in a cofee-table comemorative book to do NO revisionism and publish a warts and all autobiography is equally preposterous. Much changes in a century or even in 25 years and the objective of the book was to fill alumni and finacial backers with a feel of the historical sweep but mainly with unambiguous pride.

Absent makhlokes even illustrious alumni who moved way to the right (Rav Elya Weintraub, Rav Yitzchok Soloveitchik) or left (Rav Ahron Lichtenstein) of the current configuration of the Yeshiva are hardly mentioned.(If at all, I haven't made a siyum on the book). The point was to give a warm-fuzzy prideful feeling to the current dor.

When Chabad/ Nichoach publishes histories are there no cosmetic ommisions or even revisions?

Anonymous said...

>>So Reb Shlomo found himself without a job, and to his credit never took it to the secular courts, like they do today at the Yeshivah on the hill in Ir HaTeyreh Bene Beraq.

As usualy, you worthless evil piece of horse manure, you demonstrate you know nothing about Ponovez.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Can horse manure be evil? I mean, it has no intentions of its own, it just lands where the horse drops it, so why besmirch that which has done no wrong?

Anonymous said...

>>why besmirch that which has done no wrong?

Exactly, so why malign Ponovez, and make things up about it?

Hirshel Tzig said...

who's maligning? They're fighting in court over who should be the Rosh Yeshivah there!

Anonymous said...

1. i was happy that no one paid attention to "barry gurarie's" post. when a guy just writes stupidities that were quoted by barry during the seforim case ( he never made those allegations before because they were not true ) they are not worthy of elaboration. ( incidentally as the judge pointed out if he thought the sforim were his he would not take them secretly like a thief. anyone who saw the video - and i did - could see him sneaking like a regular thief.)
regarding history risionism - there is a very nice article by rabbi eliezri from california where he says that both the litvishe and chabad ( not the leaders on both sides but stam people ) are guilty of that and, gives some good examples and urges both sides to give each other credit where credit is due. i wish this article could be posted here.

Anonymous said...

>>who's maligning? They're fighting in court over who should be the Rosh Yeshivah there!

Says who? Chabad?

Anonymous said...

And what about the "Rebbe's" court case? What about the fact that he walked around in Europe doing nothing for so many years? Focus on your own. Ponovez and its roshei yeshiva are too big for small minded am hoaratzim like you and the "rebbe" to understand.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Says every person with a brain. Wake up people, your leaders have bankrupted.

Right, the Rebbe backpacked in Europe, doing nothing. And my name is Mickey Mouse.

An Ashkenazi admirer said...

BTW

This supposed "snag vee in pusik shtait" took an aidim Rav Yisokhor Landau who was the Yosom son of a Soviet immigrant. For years he was considered from the shining ligts of KGA and is now a 10th grade Rebee in the Mesivta.

If he had stuck with his impeccable "gehzah" credentials what are the chances that Rav Shimon would've been meshadekh with a Russian immigrant (may have been a BT don't remember)?

Camp Morris has played host to Ateret Torah (Khakham Harari Raful) for decades. CB had a large Iranian program when the Shah fell and has many fine Russian, French, Bukharian and Israeli buchrim and yungeleit.

BTs have no problem placing their kids in MRCBs elementary or high school divisions. Nor do divorced parents. The Yeshiva runs big brother programs with Be'er HaGolah, Sinai and R'tzad.

A lot of groups talk the "Ahavas Yisrael is colorblind " talk. MRCB walks the walk.

Anonymous said...

>>Says every person with a brain. Wake up people, your leaders have bankrupted.

>>Right, the Rebbe backpacked in Europe, doing nothing. And my name is Mickey Mouse.

Micky Mouse,

Your "Rebbe" did not do a meaningful thing as a "student" (I use the word incoorectly as he actually was not a student) in Europe. He barely spen more than a semester in Berlin studying in University. What was he doing in Berlin for 6 years? He was not studying that's for sure. Backpacking would proabably be a nicer spin.

The only leader who was bankrupt was the . . . "Rebbe." He did not know what he was talking about and dragged hundreds of thousands of people off because of that. He was obstinant, degraded anyone who did not agree with him--even publicly, and hated non-chassidim. Worse, his messianic ambitions took over his movement to a point where some people--not as few as you would like to believe--refer to him as Hashem Himself. Because of him and his moral bankruptcy, the world is a worse place.

Stop making things up about Ponovez or any other Litivishe yeshiva. Its bad enough you be a filthy am hooeretz, but to spread motzi shem rah?

Oh, I forgot. You are a self-hating Hungarian.

anonymous1 said...

even thjough you are anonymous, you can be recognised because no one else comes near you in idiotic comments. you havent read the many chidushim the rebbe wrote while in euurope, havent seen the reshimes, havent heard the eyewittness on video including other chassidishe rebbes, litvishe rabinim who spoke about the rebbes schedule. but i wont repeat about your credentials - i have already proven beyond the shadow of the doubt that you are not frum at all and no godol beyisroel deserves your respect. rachmones in you

mentalblog said...

What happened to all the posts I sent over?
Who is censoring me?

Anonymous said...

>>but i wont repeat about your credentials - i have already proven beyond the shadow of the doubt that you are not frum at all and no godol beyisroel deserves your respect. rachmones in you

This does not even deserve a response. I know that someone as intellectually impoverished as yourself would get confused and think that I would not respond because I have nothing to say to your incontrovertible "proofs." The fact is that you are fashioning facts from thin air. The Rebbe was not a gdaol B'Yisroel, he was a gadol b'Chabad. And he is solely to blame for the fact that this is distinction with an incredibly significant difference. My credentials in learning are far superior to anything the "Rebbe" actually had. He was a nobody. Look at what came from him--nothing. Just hate, ignorance, and false messianism.

Anonymous said...

TZIG-
LET 'EM HAVE IT

-AMSHINOVER

An Ailemesher said...

Here's is a pic of Harry Sherer, for the curious http://www.wallawalla.edu/academics/library/imlib/photos.php?RollID=Bg&FrameID=2022

I think that Harry should have stayed with the Yarmulka so his bald head would have been somewhat covered up.

An Ailemesher said...

You want to know where in posuk shtait to zein a misnaged? Duh, it's the first 2 of the 10 commandments.

An Ailemesher said...

About the missing guy - they took a page of 1984 by Orwell, not to mention Stalin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

Doctored photography is a propaganda technique and the creation of unpersons in the story, analogous to Stalin's enemies being made nonpersons and being erased from official photographic records; the police treatment of several characters recalls the Moscow Trials of the Great Purge.

יוסף דוב said...

איך האב נאכאמאל א קוק געטאן וואס טוט זיך דא און כ'אב ניט איינגעהאלטן מאכן נאך איין השתדלות. איך וויל ניט ווענדן צו דעם "אנאנימאס" וואס שפייט ארויס שנאה און האס- אזא מענטש איז אינגאנצן ניט פאראינטערעסירט אין דעם אמת. צום ביישפיל איך האב דערמאנט א ריי גדולי ישראל וואס האבן ברבים אדער אין דרוק אויסגעדריקט זייער הדרת כבוד פארן ליובאוויטשער רבי'ס גדלות און גאונות.צו אסאך פון די אויסדריקן בין איך עדות געוועזן ( צווישן זיי דער טשעבינער, ר' משה,ר' שלמה זלמן, הרב הירשפרונג,דער גערער רבי וכו' וכו' . איך בין אויכעט אנטוישט מכוח ניט בכבודיקן בארעדן ר' יצחק הוטנר. איך האב אים געקענט און ער איז געוועזן א גרויסער איד.דרך אגב ער האט תמיד רעספעקטירט דעם חבד רבין אפי' אויב ער געהאט חילוקי דעות
מיין עיקר בקשה נפשית איז צו ר' הירשלען. מען טאר ניט דערלאזן קיין שום בזיון תלמיד חכמים. דער אנאנימוס איז תקע א געלעכטער פון א מענטשן און קיין בר-דעת וועט ניט מתייחס זיין צו זעיינע פוסטע אומגרונטיקע באקלאגענישן ( איך האב זיך צעלאכט לייענענדיק אז ער איז א גרעסערער למדן וכו') אבער ווער גיט א היתר צו דרוקן די דברי נבלה? ניט דער ליובאוויטשער רבי ניט ר' יצחק ניט דער סטמארער, בעלזער, בריסקער און אלע אומצייליקע פוסקים, ראשי ישיבה אדער גדולים וואלט ניט געגעבן קיין היתר צו דרוקן אפי' א קליינעם פראצענט פון די שרעקלעכע פארביסענע שטותים
דער באשעפער איז אן עד אז מיינע ווערטער זיינען מכוון צו בייזע ווערטער אקעגן אלע גדולים און אלע אידן אן יוצא מן הכלל.
איך בין אן אפטימיסט און דערפאר האף איך צו זען אן ענדערונג מן הקצה אל הקצה.
יוסף דוב.

anonymous1 said...

anonymous - people throughout the blog have showed eveidence to disprove your crazy claims. you have brought not one shred of proper evidence. i showed today your words to a RAM in pnovezh - he said you should be put into NSH"CH if you know what it means.
he said you are discrase to whatever group of jews you try to represent. you wil find not one legitimate person who would praise you and not condemn you for your empty spastic spewing but then i dont think you care too much.
tsig - everyone in my class in ponevezh to whom i showed all this even from those who dont like the direction of chabad are nausiated by the fact that this blog is taking in these sort of comments about jews. we saw negativities about the baal pachad yitzchok, his talmidim and others - please elevate the standards by not allowing every zov and tzorua to publish whatever comes out of their achoraim.

U' N' said...

Reb Yosef Ber, with all due respect, but do you think that it is not appropriate for someone who believes that a great avla is bestowed upon jews to speak up his mind ? Speaking abstractly and not about this specific case, let's make up someone - say the great rabbi of Irkutst Wolf Leib Feferkorn - is, in your opinion, causing dozens if not thousands of Jews to go off derech in the worst way possible (again, in your opinion). Let's say this rabbi made a public heiter to speak loshon horo. Now what, you're not allowed to be honest to yourself and protest in public, perhaps by discrediting the subject ?

I think you should not try to hide censorship behind frume verter. It's a difference of opinions, very strong one, but not more then that.

Anonymous said...

ניין, מען טאר ניט ריידן אין אן אויפן אין וועלכן גדולי ישראל וואלט ניט געלאזט.

Anonymous said...

There is one person who was prominent for years as a talmid, kollel yungerman and magid shiur (at age 22 and on) who has become a non-person (al derech the Soviet Union) who really does never existed as far as their century book is concerned. His name is Rav Avrohom Kleinkaufman.

no name pls said...

Reading the title, I thought for sure you meant the RYMS the Rosh Yeshiva who built up the yeshiva from scratch for the first 26 years, who's seforim are accepted classics and the only pride and Torah of YRCB history, (see his toldos at the end of sefer Shiurei RYMS on B"K.) Not someone who came into an established Yeshiva, was promised a position by a ganav who renaged - big deal - who learned from his rebbe to waste his life on Maharal they do not understand. Big deal he wasn't mentioned.

visitor said...


You are all completely missing the boat with your carlebach and schechter narishkeit who do not exist in the real grand scheme of the history of YRCB.
I sent you a few weeks ago a much more detailed piece that you did not post.
Try reading the toldos in shiurei reb yakov moshe shurkin

Anonymous said...

Only anonymous is close to being accurate

Anonymous said...

True

Reb Shmuel'nik said...

Yehupitz, and all the other know-nothings who pleppel ein:

As far as R' Hutner and R' Moshe, I don't know about their relatonship, but they sat together on the Moetzes and I know nothing substantiated regarding a fight.

The hazmana from R' Moshe (which is posted on failedmessiah) shows that the hazmana is dated 7 Shvat 5742, over a year after R' Hutner's petira on 20 Kislev 5741. So R' Hutner could obviously not have been consulted about the Hazmana.

I have got some good info as to which gadol told R' Ahron Schechter not to respond to the Hazmana, and it is one of the towers of that generation.

It seems that R' Moshe himself accepted it, as evidenced by the fact that R' Moshe never issued subsequent hazmanos and certainly no cherem.

PS This story of disagreement between the body of litvishe gedolim and R' Moshe is one of many and may be attributed to the fact that R' Moshe didn't learn in Slabodka, unlike his colleagues.