Sunday, November 27, 2011

Kinus HaShluchim Thread












Watch The Banquet Here. Note: We cannot vouch for the quality of the stream.

74 comments:

Anonymous said...

אין שליח לדבר עבירה, או יש מצבים שבהם יש שליח לדבר עבירה

כשהקב"ה ("הרב") אוסר על האדם לעשות מעשה מסוים, והשולח ("התלמיד") מבקש ממנו לעשותו או מצווה אותו לעשותו, "דברי מי שומעים?!". ודאי דברי הרב.

אבל כשהשליח לא ידע כלל שיש כאן עבירה ודמי לבעל כרחו (תוס' ב"ק שם) ודמי למי שאינו בר חיובא (תוס' בקידושין), במקרה זה "יש שליח לדבר עבירה".

yehupitz said...

So what did Lord Rabbi Sacks say?

Anonymous said...

anon
"אין שליח לדבר עבירה,"
how do u take the mitzva of Harbotzas Hatorah(Lilmad Ulelamad,Veshinantom Levonaicho ali habonim ) and create it in to a aviera?
Did u find some Midrash?

Anonymous said...

Yehopitz
"So what did Lord Rabbi Sacks say?"
He gave a new Mehalach on the Ketzois in Hilchos Toan Venitan
Is that what u wanted to hear?

Ende Tsadik said...

Anon 12.12: Most speakers at the Aguda convention couldn't do that either.

Not the Delegate from Uzbekhistan said...

So what exactly happens now that the annual infomercial is over.Even the Democrats and Republicans only "prave"such nonsense once every four years.It wouldn't be quite so ridiculous if Crown Heights itself weren't coming apart at the seams.Can the shluchim be mekarev their own kind?Or do we say "ain kiruv likrovim?"

Anonymous said...

anon 12:10, "Did u find some Midrash?"

Is all medrish not for your liking?.. or just מדרש על שיר השירים

how about talmid bavli? or shulcun orech הלכות ת"ת can that be quotable or is it on the black list to?

Anonymous said...

anon: "Harbotzas Hatorah(Lilmad Ulelamad,Veshinantom Levonaicho ali habonim )"

what does all the above have to do with שליחים ???

Anonymous said...

Not the Delegate said: "It wouldn't be quite so ridiculous if Crown Heights itself weren't coming apart at the seams."

The problem isn't that the שליחים take CH out to the world! it's more that they bring the 'world' back into CH!

Anonymous said...

Not the Delagate
"s only "prave"such nonsense once every four year"
what does the convention have to do with the price of tea in china?
It is important to take care on Ch, but is the convention part of CH problem?
Or the existence of the shluchim irks you?

Anonymous said...

Not the Delegate
"So what exactly happens now that the annual infomercial is over."
the same thing that happens to u after simchas torah

Anonymous said...

Anon

"what does all the above have to do with שליחים ???"


I can not not answer your charifisdege question,
so please

Ask the Sharmasher and the Chader

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Is all medrish not for your liking?.. or just מדרש על שיר השירים

how about talmid bavli? or shulcun orech הלכות ת"ת can that be quotable or is it on the black list to?"
I love and I learn every piece of torah, even Veyoel Moshe,just I like that it is enforced according to the Klolie haTorah that is also torah.
Meaning, Shulchan orech has its guidelines,Midrash/Agadatta has its guidelines, 13 Principles has its guidelines, and Maharal Hahkafa has its guidelines.

Anonymous said...

"The problem isn't that the שליחים take CH out to the world! it's more that they bring the 'world' back into CH!"
is it all happening on this 3 days?

Anonymous said...

anon 1:10 "I can not not answer your charifisdege question,
so please..."


סיג לחכמה שתיקה

Anonymous said...

"סיג לחכמה שתיקה"
Are U done for the day? or for good?

Anonymous said...

anon 1:07: "
It is important to take care on Ch, but is the convention part of CH problem? Or the existence of the shluchim irks you?"

5000 שליחים with maybe 25,000 children living mostly in real goyishe סביבות if there is a MO cheder in the area than they are lucky! mostly they don’t have even that, so they are מקריב their children on the מזבח of goyishe culture and secularisim! And these children bring back the street culture to CH !? all this for WHAT?

Delegate from Kharbin,P.R.O.C. said...

Anon1:08 I observe Simchas Torah because it is a minhag hundreds of years old. The "international thingamajig of Shluchim" asher bodu yesh meayin to honor some Russian billionaires who got their money who knows how.How do you compare the two?The key word is that the" bimeh was revolving" around some very successful salesleit as R.Kotlarsky said"We are into sales and service"-a direct quote from the great one himself.I watched part of it on the feed and the only thing it could be compared to is a political convention with the multi-talented Rabbi K.as master of ceremonies.In the old days the shluchim tried to convince people to become true balei teshuveh now they are competing with the local Reform Temple for the unaffiliated Bar-Mitzvah business.The BT business has moved to Ohr Someiach and Aish and Braslev.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"so they are מקריב their children on the מזבח of goyishe culture and secularisim! And these children bring back the street culture to CH !? all this for WHAT?"
Maybe in theory u are correct, but the fact is that 90%of the shluchim kids are very eidel and chassidiish kids, and the CH problems have noting to do with Shluchim kids.I visited lately in many states and Europe by shluchim houses , I was amazed how much eidelkiet and kedusha I saw on the kids faces.
U can argue till tomorrow,since your chabad hate will not let u think objective. but this is the fact.

dovy in jersey said...

anon 1:43, personally i agree with you and that was how i was raised in the '70s. however, the facts are that every branch of jewry has mimicked the chabad system of kiruv at all costs. aish hatorah-modern orthodox, ohr samayach-yeshivish (kinda) torah links/gesher - bmg, stolin in russia, belz in israel, oorah, hofstater's achenu, lev l'achim, torah umesorah's-seed (where they now even send teenage girls to be sacrificed on the kiruv altar.) these are all imitations of chabad shliach style kiruv.
if everyone opposes this type of kamikaze kiruv, why do we all copy it?

dovy in jersey said...

anon 1:43, personally i agree with you and that was how i was raised in the '70s. however, the facts are that every branch of jewry has mimicked the chabad system of kiruv at all costs. aish hatorah-modern orthodox, ohr samayach-yeshivish (kinda) torah links/gesher - bmg, stolin in russia, belz in israel, oorah, hofstater's achenu, lev l'achim, torah umesorah's-seed (where they now even send teenage girls to be sacrificed on the kiruv altar.) these are all imitations of chabad shliach style kiruv.
if everyone opposes this type of kamikaze kiruv, why do we all copy it?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"5000 שליחים with maybe 25,000 children living mostly in real goyishe סביבות if there is a MO cheder in the area than they are luck"
they are not Goyisher then most villages and towns in holy Magyer, where the Ruvs son became Ruv, even tough he had no minyan in the weekdays, and no Melamud.
All because the Goldene Kiet has to continue.
Imagine the Shaliachs is a son of the Pittsburger that his son has to become the ruv in Mosholo Park and his Son in Law in takes a shtele in Boberik.

Anonymous said...

anon 1:39, "סיג לחכמה שתיקה"
Are U done for the day? or for good?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Anonymous said...

Dedlegate from....
I observe Simchas Torah because it is a minhag hundreds of years old"
The Alte Rebbe writes in siddur regarding Hakoffes that the more minhag it is the more you have the concept of Ariven Olie sofrim
So, the last few years a few yidden made themselves a minhag Lhikhoiel Velamoid Al nafshom, to learn,more about the field of harbotzas torah,listen from old chasidishe yiden, Kabolas pnie Raboi,to be Mekiem the famous Rashba of Pirsum Yedai Oise Mitzva, I believe that the Rashba is valid for a russian ogliarch
who has a Neshoma Chelek Elokai Mimahal Mamash as Rav Stienman and Rav Elieshev,The Rashba is not only if someone gave 10 dollars to buy a sidur leilu nishnmas is Mother in Law.Plus if you are familiar with the vort of the Magid about the Shechina of Assore Meyisroel, especial in a day that is Yom Shenase Nes Leraboi?
So please get to the point what exactly is hurting you?
The Bittul Torah?
The Kidush Hashem that u see a few Yidden have a little Achdus for a few hours?
Does it also bother you the annual Thanksgiving day convention of the Agudah?
Or the annual 2 Chof alef Kislev gathering in Brooklyn?
Why are you degrading a Kinus Letzadikim Shenoah Lohem venoah Leolom?

Anonymous said...

anon 3:10: "Or the annual 2 Chof alef Kislev gathering in Brooklyn?"
"I believe that the Rashba is valid for a russian ogliarch"

I believe that certain things השתיקה יפה להם like "russian ogliarch'es" or a lubab who is into keriv talking about כ"א כסלו

Der Shygetz said...

Am I reading Circus Tent or Failed Scotty? Based on the comments above, I find it hard to tell the difference right now. This is the only place other than the Failed Mess that carries negative nonsense about the kinus.

Tzig, time to tell some of these characters "Saygec Arosz!"

I have some news for some of you scoffers. For some of the shluchim, the banquet dinner was the only fancy meal they ate the whole year. The bulk of the money they collected went to bail out yeshivish and Ingarisch kids who ended up in the can, among other things that would make the likes of you feel very embarrassed to mock the kinus.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"I believe that certain things השתיקה יפה להם like "russian ogliarch'es" or a lubab who is into keriv talking about כ"א כ"
is not this site a cesspool for the chabadhaters?
so start spilling the beans on the ogliarches?
How many shiksehs? and I will get even with the Satmar roshie hakehila with their Hiemishe Aishes Is/Incest stories

Der Shygetz said...

And these children bring back the street culture to CH !? all this for WHAT?

---

All this to save Yoiley from Willy, or Aharon Isser Zalman (aka Acharoin Issur deOraysa) from Lakewood, who ends up in jail near some Native American reservation after he gambles away the last buck on his fraudulently obtained credit cards.

Anonymous said...

The Lita is also doing in Shlichus, recently there was an interview with a non-chabad shliach in Las Vagas... I give him very little success to raise his children Jewish!!

Anonymous said...

all this for what?

all this so that when you go on your business trip to who knows where you can have a place to eat, daven etc

make sure to check out the kinus aish is having next week in stamford

Anonymous said...

anon 4:37 "all this so that when you go on your business trip to who knows where you can have a place to eat, daven etc"

יישר כוחכם it;s important! but to sacrifice youn children for that!!c"v, why cant the shlicium be older people with married children!

Anonymous said...

The most obnoxious bunch of bitter bloggers. All lurking only on this blog, and Hershel is happy to have this gutter blog as his sucsses story.

I blog in Bechadrei Chareidim, Bechtzrois Chasidim, Oitzer Hachochma, and this takes the cake, vicous, pathological hate pure and simple. And the host who hosts this virus, is a Lubavitcher! Why? Supposedly to defend Chabad. Its just so absurd. Let the haters open their hotlines a.k.a. all luntics who exist and pollute our biosphere, and spew their hate there. But why should they that Hershel kindly offers them a platform which rivals the Shturmer.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"all this for what?"
to bring back every Jewish soul from assimilation, even if you are not matzliach, this work has to be done
As Chazal said Behidai Kavshie Derachmona Lomo Loch...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"The key word is that the" bimeh was revolving" around some very successful salesleit as R.Kotlarsky said"We are into sales and service"
I dont chap the joke of the The joke in the Revoving Bimeh?
does not the Rambam say that you have to give for kids candies to come to learn,
dont you think that any modern technique has to be used to bring back our brothers from the brink of assimilation?

Anon3 said...

"5000 שליחים with maybe 25,000 children living mostly in real goyishe סביבות if there is a MO cheder in the area than they are lucky! mostly they don’t have even that, so they are מקריב their children on the מזבח of goyishe culture and secularisim!"
The Satmer Rebbe Reb Yoilesh Z"L was once asked why he doesn't send out shluchim as the Lubavitcher Rebbe does to which he replied. "Vail der Lubavitcher Rebbe vaist az zei un zayer kinder velen tzrik kumen ober az ich vel shikken shluchim bin ich shtark mesupic az zei velen tzrik kumen".So the story goes.

Anonymous said...

Most shluchim's children are not frying out. The modern segment of CH is not comprised only of Shluchim's children...there are quite a number of locals there as well...

The so called sacrifice we make is more that of sending kids away from home young, living in a place where there are no or few friends, no kosher food etc. But to us, it's not a sacrifice, rather, it is a privilege to be able to help our fellow Yidden, local and tourists, in our mekomos hashlichus.

So says a third generation shliach.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"יישר כוחכם it;s important! but to sacrifice youn children for that!!c"v, why cant the shlicium be older people with married children!"
the Lubavicher was the tzadik hador and he decided that ever Jewish soul has to stop the slippery slope of assimialtion,
Thats Why

Stacszyk said...

What really turns me off to the whole Lubavitch approach is their unyielding love of cheap publicity and self-congratulatory rhetoric."We're the greatest,we're the best,etc.etc." Then you add the cheap glitz e.g. a revolving dais,a site at the pier...When you also cosider the chanifa to certain people from the former USSR-then it becomes a bit too much.Even the metukonim shebeumos know when enough is enough...By the way CH.info and COL carry plenty of criticism of current Lubavitch.So stop trying to blame this site. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Lubavitch.

Anonymous said...

Anon3 7:49 said... “. "Vail der Lubavitcher Rebbe vaist az zei un zayer kinder velen tzrik kumen ober az ich vel shikken shluchim bin ich shtark mesupic az zei velen tzrik kumen".So the story goes.”

! נקוט מיהו פלגא

Anonymous said...

dovy in jersey 2:39 said: “the facts are that every branch of jewry has mimicked the chabad system of kiruv at all costs”

last I looked satmar didn’t touch it yet, and maybe היינו דאהני להם that they are the least assimilated.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:53 said: “Lubavicher was the tzadik hador and he decided that ever Jewish soul has to stop the slippery slope of assimialtion,
Thats Why”

Did he take for granted the CH souls? !למה נגרע

Anonymous said...

"the Lubavicher was the tzadik hador and he decided that ever Jewish soul has to stop the slippery slope of assimialtion,
Thats Why"
Then why don't you send 100 shluchim to CH to stop the serious assimilation going on there.While the Banquet was going on did anyone bother to look over their shoulders at their own neighborhood?

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:01 said: “How many shiksehs? and I will get even with the Satmar roshie hakehila with their Hiemishe Aishes Is/Incest stories”

ow wow.. what a relevation, as they say it takes one to know one? true or false how is this relevent to the conversation? Or is this the old antisemitisim re-gargled “when thinks go bad blame the jews (satmar)?”

Anonymous said...

anon 10:50 said: "Then why don't you send 100 shluchim to CH to stop the serious assimilation going on there"

send whom? שליחים on שליחים ?
א"כּ אין לדבר סוף

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz 4:00 pm said: “Tzig, time to tell some of these characters "Saygec Arosz!"

?לב ללב ידבּרו Shygetz to shygetz?

Ende Tsadik said...

Anon at 5.56 wrote:

"The most obnoxious bunch of bitter bloggers. All lurking only on this blog, and Hershel is happy to have this gutter blog as his sucsses story.

I blog in Bechadrei Chareidim, Bechtzrois Chasidim, Oitzer Hachochma, and this takes the cake, vicous, pathological hate pure and simple."

Mr Anon, why don't you go back to Bechadrei to find out what cheap bile and hate is, both in the headline writers and the forums.

R' Hirshl is one of the few intelligent chasidisher hosts on the web who is tolerant of open debate and the people who participate here can give as well as take.

If you don't like it go back to where you feel comfortable but leave Reb Hirshl alone.

We need ציגן not ביקעס!

tziki kedera said...

I know a family that became frum when the satmar rebbi sent his people to south america in 1948-9 .

Anonymous said...

Anon indeed there are lots of good things happening in CH, there are young couples staying on and taking on the younger generation, working with couples, singles and the like.

Anonymous said...

tziki kedera 11:14 said: “I know a family that became frum when the satmar rebbi sent his people to south america in 1948-9 “

What news! There is thousand’s of ספרדישע yiden from argentina who are raising 100% yidishe families and have their own kehilos in new york and buenous aires! All as a direct result from satmar ruvs !שליחות and continuous support !!!

Anonymous said...

Ende Tsadik 11:10:00 AM said: “"The most obnoxious bunch of bitter bloggers. All lurking only on this blog” ” If you don't like it go back to where you feel comfortable but leave Reb Hirshl alone”

The most bitter bites so far came from the ץ himself ! hirshel is a true lubab! Who in the spirit of קירבות רחוקים tolerates you & me, I cant say that of you! Who Is a מרחק רחוקים !

Anonymous said...

Ende Tsadik 11:10 said... “We need ציגן not ביקעס!”

Wht’s in a name? פּ"צ ץ ?

Anonymous said...

Ende Tsadik 11:10 said: “Mr Anon, why don't you go back...”

?ודילמא לאו כל אצבעות שוים
maybe not all anon's are the same?

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz 4:05:00 PM said...
” All this to save Yoiley from Willy, or Aharon Isser Zalman (aka Acharoin Issur deOraysa) from Lakewood, who ends up in jail near some Native American reservation after he gambles away the last buck on his fraudulently obtained credit cards.”

ער מאכט זיך אוויא א תם! אין שטעכט אוויא מועד!

Anonymous said...

Anon
"There is thousand’s of ספרדישע yiden from argentina who are raising 100% yidishe families"
Thousands is a little guzmah

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Then why don't you send 100 shluchim to CH to stop the serious assimilation going on there.While the Banquet was going on did anyone bother to look over their shoulders at their own neighborhood?"
I think that there are local mosdos in CH

Anonymous said...

Staczyk
"What really turns me off to the whole Lubavitch approach is their unyielding love of cheap publicity and self-congratulatory rhetoric."We're the greatest"
give me one Dinner or Melava Mmalka Litvish Chassidish Sefardig where the theme of the event is not upbeat?
Your hate obsession loses you Sechel Hayosher

Anonymous said...

Its quite amazing that attacking general lubavitch is accepted, but mentioning the sins of Willi., with the hundreds if not thousands burnt out souls still sporting a crown (Kroin bla"z) shtriemal and a close trimmed beard and everything else that happens there, the tremendous interest in sports by a large segment who perhaps still officialy dress the garb, but are drenced in american culture, is pure antisemitism. Yechi ha"double standerd leolom voed". (I was lately at a Satmar wedding, and some one pointed out to me at yungeleit all many with long garb and cholent pot hat, others with Shtriemle,others with the flat velevet hat (Platchik biber hat bla"z, who are al out heretics. but to mentioin that is hate!

I also wonder, when the big fire scandel erupted, the heavy mask of skver town was abrubtly removed, and I noticed then the hunderds of kids hailing from one the most insulated communities on the face of the earth, who nevertheless were extremely rebelious and westernized. Also was a t a wedding in Willi, and heard the musical who wore tiny leather yarmulka etc, conversing with other Shtriemel guys in heimish zaftig accented Yiddish, to astonishment I was told the he is from holy skver town). That was very interesting to me since last time I checked, holy skver town doesnt have shluchim around the globe. (Perhaps the modern guys who seek out the Rebbes advice bring the filth of the modern world with them and it infiltrated the water system. Who knows).

Anonymous said...

Hey dont you know that The Filth in KJ comes from the Chabadnik doctor in Ezras cholim, he created the "Sharfe Oigen"in the shortcuts

Anonymous said...

Hey anonymous mit di sharfe oigen. This is really interesting. Could you offer some more info? A groisen daink.

Anonymous said...

You will still be a good Jew,If you never heard from it

Anonymous said...

anon 2:00 said: "Hey anonymous mit di sharfe oigen. This is really interesting. Could you offer some more info"

I was going to recommend an encyclopidia of satmare peoples חטאים so y'all can quote it to make you feel better when you feel confronted! but i guess you know them all! better than what's happeing in your own Houses! וד"ל

Anonymous said...

anon 1:19:00 PM said " ----- "

I always wondered why the miracle with בּלעם'ס אייזעל talking...! משרע"ה was a נביא didn't he know who בּלעם was? couldn't he send him a message of...??, but between the things the אייזעל said was : ההסכן הסכנתי... רכיבה ביום שכיבה בלילהlooks like some words only an אייזעל can say!!!

Anonymous said...

I enjoy seeing the crocodile tears of a movement that started the name calling every surviving Jew, with Apikoras,Zionist etc..
When the shoah blood was not Farglivert yet...

Anonymous said...

Who are the shluchim's shluchim?

Who will be the shluchim of our children?

Who will do what the shluchim don't do?

Deep Deep Deep

Anonymous said...

this discussion is sick and sicker. we've got a mabul outside, that's threatening everyone, no matter who and what u are. As anon 1:19 pointed out, the square fire scandal ripped the mask off an insulated "the home of yiras shamayim (quote from a squarer friend)" community and showed how it's all bubbe maises. No one is immune regardless of how much they think they are insulated (willy, square, meah shearim) or "forward thinking (CH, 5 towns)". It's time to stop pointing fingers at others bec we're all in this together. I've noticed that when they go clubbing R"L, the FFB's, BT's, chassidim, litvaks, sfardis have no problem hanging out together.

The aguda convention was so negative that it's a total turnoff. How many people in the crowd were texting on their smartphones while listening to schorr's haranguing? Did anyone turn in their phones and switch to a simple no internet phone? So now we have all the "gedolim" decrying the phones and all their k'vayochol followers blatantly ignoring them while proclaiming them the leaders of klal yisoel.
"Mutav sheloi loimar dovor sheloi yishoma miloimar dovor sheloi yishoma"
(i think i just butchered a mamar chazal, but i'm tired from texting and surfing all night)

Anonymous said...

There is thousand’s of ספרדישע yiden from argentina who are raising 100% yidishe families

And many of them are actually mekurovim of Lubavitch, or have their own regular Sefardi kehillos. Satmar is hardly responsible for "thousands" there.

Anonymous said...

anon 2:55 said: "a movement that started the name calling every surviving Jew"

what name did they call you ?

Anonymous said...

Ende Tsadik 11:10 said “We need ציגן not ביקעס!”

Sorry you can’t have one without the other..

Ende Tsadik 11:10 said “We need ציגן not ביקעס!”

Sorry ץ you can’t have one without the other..

כך אמר אחז: 'אם אין גדיים אין תישים, אם אין תישים אין צאן, אם אין צאן אין רועה, אם אין רועה, אין עולם
ירושלמי סנהדרין י, ב

Anonymous said...

anon 2:55 said; "I enjoy seeing the crocodile tears of a movement"

!די רבי הייסט פייפן! what was that all about?

Anonymous said...

anon 1:19 said: "Yechi ha"double standerd leolom voed"

You can't be satmar and do all those things forever!(you can fake it for a while, yes) but with time he and his children will be exposed and thrown
out from their institutions לחרפה ולדראון and than CH will have a chance to make new real בּע"ת from real yiddishe families! and maybe by than they "with their מסורות האבות will teach CH a think or two about yiddishkeit.. think of it!!!

Anonymous said...

The problem on the internet is that people can write anything and there is no accountability.Reb Avreml Shorr is a durchgeveikter chssidisher Yid who has hundreds of followers who listen to his every word. When did it become the 614th mitzvah to always be "upbeat?"I remember the Rebbe talking about mihu Yehudi,wall to wall carpeting,people selling themselves out for a nezid adoshim and on and on. He was very upset and perturbed. A good part of many of his farbrengens were about very ongeveitikte inyonim and the atmosphere in 770 was hardly very light and jovial.So what is it you want from Rabbi Shorr who everyone admits "says what he means and means what he says?"If the Rebbe was against television then he wouldn't be against the internet?By the way,when Lubavitch was Lubavitch no Lubavitcher had a television.Rabbi Shorr is an extremely sincere person. It's OK to show him the derech eretz he deserves.

Anonymous said...

anon 11:20 "when Lubavitch was Lubavitch no Lubavitcher had a television"

Maybe if the rebbe wouldn't broadcast the 'farbrengen' on TV they wouldn't have it now either! just like most other chasidim still don't have it ?

Anonymous said...

".Reb Avreml Shorr is a durchgeveikter chssidisher Yid who has hundreds of followers who listen to his every word"
In 1 word a true "Noiter Habris"

Anonymous said...

I like this comment from VIN ;The only thing i see in common between Lubavitch & Aguda is,they are both trying to decide(one halachicly & one physically) when death occurs.
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