Sunday, June 9, 2013

זה עוסק בלולבו וזה עוסק בסוכתו, כ'מיין צו זאגען זה עוסק בשלטו וזה עוסק בשקו.... ביטול תורה? וואס, וואו, ווען



















- איינער פון די גרויסע "טענות" וואס די אזוי גערופענע "קנאים לדבר ה'" פלעגן צו האבען - און האבען נאך היינט מסתמא איז דאס אז די ליובאוויטשער בחורים זענען מבטל תורה דורך דעם וואס זיי גייען ארויס ברחובה של עיר און טוהען אהן תפלין מיט אידען וכדומה. שוין. מ'קען הערן אזא טענה. כאטש אז באמת איז דאס פונקט אזוי מותר ווי גיין קויפען סעמיטשקעס און בלעטער און גיין זיך באדען ביים ים ----- אבער וויל אייך פרעגן, א"ג קנאים, דאס אז ס'איז דא א חיוב מחאה אויף די גזירת גיוס בני הישיבות קען מען נאך הערן אז דערפאר זאל מען מבטל זיין טויזענטער בחורים לכמה שעות רצופות אין א טאג פון סדרי הישיבה. נישט בין הזמנים און נישט קעמפ, נאר א פשוט'ן זונטאג. כאטש ווער זאגט אז מ'דארך פארען דערויף קיין מאנהעטן? אין וויליאמסבורג און אין קר"י קען מען פונקט אזוי גוט "מוחה" זיין. די פרעסע האט קארס, ווענס און העליקאפטערס, זיי קענען אנקומען צו די ווייטע קר"י אויך. ס'נישט אזוי "ווייט" פון די טמא'נע שטאט ווי מ'מאכט עס...און זונטאג איז דאך נישט ארבעט'ס טאג, ווער וועט אייך זעהן דארטען אין מאנהעטן??? אפאר נארישע טוריסטען? אבער מי התיר לכם מאכען אזעלכע "הצגות" (אנטשולדיגט מיר וואס איך שרייבט א טמא'נע ווארט) מיט זעקלעך און קייטלעך און שילדען? פון וועלכע רב אדער דיין האט איר באקומען די היתר? קיין שום רב וואלט נישט מתיר געווען אזא זאך ווען מ'פרעגט אים און מ'איז אים מסביר וויפיל שעות פון ביטול תורה דאס איז גורם. ס'איז סתם אז מ'מאכט די ירושלימ'ער ליצים מיט זייערע הצגות. נאר וואס? ס'איז אלץ בלאף. ס'איז פונקט ווי הענגן שילדען און לעמפלעך ביי די רבי'שע חתונות. הפה שהתיר את זה התיר את זה. ס'איז אפשר נאך ערגער ווי דאווענען נאך די זמן תפלה... ואשרי חלקם פון די ישיבות הליטאיות דא אין אמעריקא וועלכע האבען זיך נישט געלאזט פארדרייען די קעפ און אנגענומען אויף זיך אנשטאט מבטל זיין סדרי הישיבה מחזק צו זיין די סדרים און אזוי צו בעטן ביים בורכ"ע זיך מרחם צו זיין אויף אחב"י אין ארץ ישראל. און מיט דעם זענען זיי אויך כנראה מחוץ למחנה - די זעלבסט-געמאכטע מחנה החדשה פון יהדות התורה הנאמנה שומרי הגחלת והפך השמן הטהור



29 comments:

Reb Hirsh said...


Let us assume for arguments sake that the protest is a mitzvah and if a protest has to be done properly and these preparations are required, then these preparations are also a mitzvah.

Would the argument then be moot ?

The answer is no.


It goes much deeper then merely tit for tat. ( You make fun of those going to Manhattan for mivtzoyim and now we make fun of you for going to Manhattan for a protest etc. ).

The real issue is, that Lubavitch was made fun of because they thought outside the box and used the tools deemed necessary to accomplish their intended goals.
Things that weren't done in the shtetl and not heard of in the Chasam Sofers beis medrash.

They understood that the situation required bold moves required of them in unparalleled times.

Whether it was mitzvah tanks, farbrengens on television or Tanya on the radio.

And for years people enjoyed taking pot shots at them saying, 'vu hot men es gehert un gezen azelche zachin'.

Highly immature smug arguments from 'geniuses' in other kraizin but espoused nonetheless.

The point is, this generation has things required of it and methods that are unique to it that can accomplish those goals.


Satmar realizes that if organizing a protest requires signs and sackcloth and this is what will accomplish their goals, even if they never did such things in the Old Country then it needs to be done.

( Even if goyim use signs for their protests because that is effective for them, that doesn't mean Satmar can not.)

Welcome aboard !

The real complaint here, is that these protests out of Satmar only revolve around a Israel and shitah that is their defining motif for the last number of years.

How about the aibershters 'shita' from Har Sinai ? How about his Torah and mitzvos and the fact that klal yisroel is assimilating at a rate of 70 % ?

How about doing something for Him instead of only being enraged when your rebbes shita is being challenged ?

That is what is so vexing.

Yisroel Isser Wassermann said...

When did the kanoim say that thay are againstputting on tefillin on non frum jews because of bitul toiroh? That's a chidush to me.

Snag said...

"ואשרי חלקם פון די ישיבות הליטאיות דא אין אמעריקא וועלכע האבען זיך נישט געלאזט פארדרייען די קעפ און אנגענומען אויף זיך אנשטאט מבטל זיין סדרי הישיבה מחזק צו זיין די סדרים און אזוי צו בעטן ביים בורכ"ע זיך מרחם צו זיין אויף אחב"י אין ארץ ישראל"

Afilu di Lubavitcher, ven er zet di grayskeit fun di hanhogo fun Moreinu R. Aharon Leib un R. Shmuel, zoln gezund un shtark zein, baal korchay yaaneh omein!

Litvishe Yid said...

Some Litvaks are deluding themselves that they are like Satmar. Instead of looking to those that are closer in shitah to them, like Gur and Lubavitch, they look veit avek tzu....Satmar??

Wake up guys, you are not Satmar. Know where you belong. It is not with Satmar. Try to be makir es mekomo vi es shteit in Pirkei Avos!

Yisroel Isser Wassermann said...

Yeshivas Mir flatbush.Yeshvas reb Chayim Berlin. Yeshvas Zichron Elimelech. And yeshivas Torah Temimo cancled seder and urge the bochurim to participate.

Anonymous said...

THis Is what Satmar Lives For. To Fight The Medina. Every Satmar Chusid Now is in Seventh Heaven. They Cant Believe Their Good Luck

faish said...

A shod!
Because of this amuleiky "fguneh", we are going to miss all the Tzigs updaTES and descriptions from the past shabbess, with his young kids, drinking all the kool-aid.
Nu, efsher, we still hear about it?
From what we read there were a thousand such "'skashres" people, there, this shabbes...

shulem said...

I never heard a tayneh of boottul tayreh by Lubavitchers.Even when they are "learning" it's bootel tayreh.Their learning is bebbing Rambam, chazering by heart Tanyah they never understood to begin with .Bittul Tehillim it is, i"m maskim.

With all their propaganda about Rambam yaimy etc, you have not seen any uptick in sefurim of any note being published by them on Rambam.
Thouisands of Lubavitchers "learning" Rambam, without any output??
Nu, nu, a kashe ayf Lubavitch.Ess felt kashes auf zei?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

אז די הינט בילען איז א סימן אז די שטיינער זענען געלונגען

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

faishy won't show you what his brainwashed kids brought home from chayder last week about the טמא'נע ציונים, פוי פעחי

Anonymous said...

הירשל, איך בין נישט אזוי אויסגעקאכט אין די הלכות ווען מעג מען יא גיין אין מאנהעטען אבער אז א ליבאוויצער חסיד קען שרייבן מיט אזא גיפט קעגען די בחורים פראטעסטירן איז א סימן זיי טוען א גיטע זאך און אשרי חלקם

Yanover said...

Its hot outside. The bochurim will be exposed to pritzus.

But tzig I cant tell are you really against this hafguneh? Or are you merely using this as opportunity to defend lubavitch program?

Can we really blame satmar for not taking this opportunity to rally? And look at the achdus! Zalys and Aronis together. Moshiach tzeitn?

Anonymous said...

Wow what lapid can do he brought satmar together

Vietzener Ruv said...

Reb Hirsh
"The real issue is, that Lubavitch was made fun of because they thought outside the box and used the tools deemed necessary to accomplish their intended goals.
Things that weren't done in the shtetl and not heard of in the Chasam Sofers beis medrash.

They understood that the situation required bold moves required of them in unparalleled times.

Whether it was mitzvah tanks, farbrengens on television or Tanya on the radio."
I agree with your conclusion, but there is a mistake that people don't get.
Was the derech of the Chasam Sofer to take Yiden to protest on streets with posters and talking to media.
Did the chasma Sofer send his boys to protest against Aron choriners Cosulate? or even did he send his bucherim to protest in front of hishouse. Did he pay for the Balie Agula to put on their coaches pamphlets against Choriner. He wrote a teshuva against him and that's it, This whole protest business is Chukas Hagoi, fruits of democracy, that brought us freedom to emancipate and eventually assimilate. The freedom brought the biggest shmad. How can we use that tool?
Chodush Osser Min Hatorah

Bushel of Zviebel said...

Yanover
"Can we really blame satmar for not taking this opportunity to rally? And look at the achdus! Zalys and Aronis together. Moshiach tzeitn?"
I heard from many friends who were there by the protest,that they were shocked how small the crowd was.
Both Satmars with the hottest button issue in the satmar ideology, should of brought out more flesh.
It shows that the non charidie world that does not affiliate with them is 10 times larger

Gulash Chef said...

Anon
"Wow what lapid can do he brought satmar together"
its only because Lapid is a Haimishe Zach Magayer....

shmuly said...

Kool Aid guy
Bring it on.
You and your (almost)Jewish cult.
Hakas hoyodea.

Ignorant Jew said...

Reb Hersh
"Whether it was mitzvah tanks, farbrengens on television or Tanya on the radio."
Its a old question that bothers me, why Chabad Ufaratzto/Ahavas yisroel vision, is prohibited to go on TV/Radio because it a Tomene Keilie,and Sinas Yisroel propaganda is Lekatchila going on any media circuit that is available to their arsenal.
Natrunai claims that 1n the early Sixties, their leader the Rav of Satmar was fiddling with the idea of opening his own radio station, to get out his anti Israel stance to a bigger public, is their some source in chazal that Tomene Keili is Mutar for Jew hate only?

YD said...

http://somehowfrum.blogspot.co.il/2013/06/deomonstration-demonstrates-dueling-daas.html

der emeser shulem said...

shulem-

i find it amazing how with all the propaganda made about daf hayomi there are so many seforim put out on shas (by those lomdim of the daf).

I am all for daf hayomi, but when you show me the lomdei hadaf start putting out chidushim on shas your comment might make sense. as of now, you come across as a complete douche bag.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

אמת'ער שלום

דפח"ח ושפ"י

Simple yid said...

Shulem
"With all their propaganda about Rambam yaimy etc, you have not seen any uptick in sefurim of any note being published by them on Rambam"
Even tough you should not be answered since a embittered person who lives off of Sinas chinom,all words are wasted. But there is maybe a bystander that will think that there is some credence in your rambling.
When the Rebbe introduced Limud Rambam Yomi, it was done based on Hilchas Talmud torah that every Jew is obligated in his life time to go thru Kol Hatorah Kuyloi,so he came up with the idea that the Rambam is the sefer that canvases every part of Torah. At the same token the Rebbe emphasized that it should be leaned based on the Rambams Hakdomah, that his sefer is intended Kakoten Kagodal and no other sefer will be needed. Being that the Rebbe had a tremendous ahavas hatorah he asked that the Talmidie chachomim should produce chisdushim on Rambam and 1000's of chidushim have been written in thousands of Kovtzim that were printed since, which Am Hatratzim like you never saw and have no interest to look for, since they have a agenda to feed, and they won"t get intimidated by the facts.

Simple yid said...

Shulem
" chazering by heart Tanyah they never understood to begin with ."
did you test the level of understanding of Bucherim?
Did you read the works on Tanya, from Reb Yossef Wienberg, Reb Yoels Work, Reb Zalman Gopin, and the 2 volumes of Reb Libel Altien.
did u not see understanding in all there biurim?
What are you basing your hollering here?

Anonymous said...

Isn't it the yurtzayt of the Rebbe? Are you going to post about it?

Yungerman

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

today is beis tammuz

Genug shayn fun di Litvish-Satmar delusion said...

The Yoseid publisher R. Lipschutz was in a big bind when it came to Sunday. Er chavert zich with Satmar, is a not infrequent visitor at Kiryas Joel, for bonfire un andere mishugasen, er redt zich ayn az er iz a Litvishe Satmarer (the hepech of an Ungarishe Litvak?), ober Reb Shmuel came out kegen, al pi R. Aharon Leib un R. Chaim. So he had to do the right thing and act like a proper Litvak, following his Rosh Yeshiva.

And it wasn't just him, he is a just one prominent example of a Litvishe segment vos reden zich ayn az zei zenen Litvishe Brisker-Satmar typen.

Vek zich ayf shoin mentshen - עורו ישנים משינתכם - un ker zich tsurik tzu ayer Litvishe shoroshim. Teshuvah - geyn tsurik - iz vos ihr darf tohn. Varf avek di chaleymes un fantazies, delusions belaaz.

Genug fun di narishkeit!

T.P.V said...

http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/06/reb-elye-ber-wachtfogel-has-strong.html

T.P.V said...

http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/06/bias-in-frum-torah-online-media.html

T.P.V said...

correct link

http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/06/frum-papers-too-report-along-party.html