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I'm not here to discuss the actual demonstration, or the content of the pashkevil you see here, which is just that, and unsigned figment of somebody's imagination. They want the Yeshivaleit to go, so they drag RAK into the conversation. Again we see how the zealots think they know better than the Rosh Yeshiva's children and talmidim. And I know this is old stuff, this style of writing, but I'm still baffled by it. What I want to discuss is, like, do they really think that a) people will burn the whole town down like some riot in the 60's? And b) do they really think that somebody in the איזראעלי Government will be threatened by this leaflet and change his mind about the plan to draft Yeshiva Bochurim/Yungeleit?
So what gives?
40 comments:
the fact is that american charedi jewry has done absolutely nothing to help in this regard. you can bet that if we would make a public demonstration with tens of thousands of people in front of the israeli embassy that netanyahu would get the picture that american charedim are firmly united with israeli charedim against their farshtinkene army and we won't allow their terrorism to continue and this would help a lot.
not as long as they want their monthly checks....
dovy in NJ
Number 1 there is no Gezara
Number 2 the Prime Minister does not give a hoot what his own citizens are saying, then why should he care what some Satmarers with their own agendas, who are using this protests for a façade, for their own turf wars.
Number 3 Satmar is to blame for stopping Jews from voting by the last election, if the Charadiem would of a other 2 MK's then the they would be in the coalition, as Bibi wanted, He likes the Aguda better then Lapid who is arrogant
Number 4 if the Lakewooders believe that Protesting is the answer then why was Reb aron putting in so much effort for Bechiras,saying statements that it is as a mitzvah as Matzo on the first night.
is there ONE think you see in positive light ?
looks like you are paid by משיח himself from 770 to come out and bash every single thing the frum word are trying to do.
this is not the frum world. This is an unsigned pashkevil.
What is the logic behind a notice for a call to arms, without a time and location ?
I signed it...
I'm afraid that all I can offer is that they don't want to be accused of שתיקה כהודעה and/or they feel they they have a חיוב of תוכחה and/or they have an aggrandised view of their influence and/or they want to ensure that their adherents are seen to be behind those of them in Israel.
What I've never understand is that if they really believe all this stuff, and truly are worried, then they should issue an open Psak Din that Satmerer have a חיוב to move to the USA and elsewhere to avoid their fictitious גזירת השמד. Who is מחייב them to stay in Israel?
For the latter reason, I don't suspect that Halacha has much to do with any of this, and it's a demonstration of their existence and voice, while the rest of the world goes "ho hum".
They can live their lives the way they want. Maybe set up settlements near the Amish .... seriously.
When RAK pro & SR con came to EY re bechiros the brisker rov remarked nit saza mitzva az er igekumen tzu leyfn un nit saza avera az er iz gikumen tzu leyfn.
The government knows demographics.without votes. we're talking israelis not the obama cabinet...
get ready for the great migration here. If the gov calls their bluff a large frummer olom would leave. in all seriousness. There are many chilonim that would be happy to see that
Hey,Heshy!
How come you are not crying foul, that Lubavitch is being excluded from this "hafguneh"?
Looks like R'Ahron Teitelbaum and his chevreh are running into problems convincing Lakewood to come to the "'fguneh", especially in light of Teitelbaum not coming to the anti internet kinnes in Metlife
Someone please explain to us what is happening with the hafguneh.
First there were scheduled two separate hafgunehs against the internet for this coming Sunday in Williamsburg.
And now there is a joint hafganeh against army conscription at Federal Plaza in Manhattan this coming Sunday.
The internet ones are cancelled ?
Still a go ?
Why was there an internet hafguneh scheduled in the first place a year after Metlife ?
Isn't the army more of a pressing issue now in light of current laws being drafted ?
Why were there two originally and one now ? They argue over internet but not the army ?
Kosher Lashon Hora ?
Anon
"The government knows demographics.without votes. we're talking israelis not the obama cabinet...
get ready for the great migration here. If the gov calls their bluff a large frummer olom would leave. in all seriousness. There are many chilonim that would be happy to see that"
you are naïve, there will not be no migration whatsoever, I am waiting for the day to see that AJ Solviechig to migrate to Flatbush in to some small basement shtibel, and his uncle 3 blocks away....on avenue N.
Israel has by now 8 million citizens, noting will happen if some Charadiem will leave, and the rest will participate like regular citizens of a society.
YonTov in Der vochen
"How come you are not crying foul, that Lubavitch is being excluded from this "hafguneh"? "
For arguments sake Chabad is not excluded(which they don't really care, since they believe that they are Machna) they are on the side of Rav Shtienman and Reb Chaim
it almost looks like the by gone Mihu Yehudi campaign
part of my point was that the israeli economy is largely dependent upon american charedi money: charedi investors like r. schron who own the largest banks in israel and are shutfim in elal and many other of the biggest businesses, the charedi tourist industry that is in the billions of dollars a year, the charedim control the real estate market in yerushalaim and other places and without them it would collapse, and finally every charedi bochur and many seminary girls spend a year or two in jerusalem pumping up the local economy.
therefore, we have a huge voice in what goes on in israel and a threat of a boycott would carry a lot more weight than say the reform movement's threat to boycott if WoW didn't get what they want.
israel gets a heckuva lot more from the charedim than the charedim get from israel.
lakewood bucher, this has nothing to do with voting in bechiros.
yomtov.. why didnt they invite YU?
Explanation
"Why was there an internet hafguneh scheduled in the first place a year after Metlife ? "
according Halacha, Shikcha is happening after 12 months, as Parshas Zochar...
Are we clear on this 1 at least?
Explanation
"Isn't the army more of a pressing issue now in light of current laws being drafted ?"
The Skulener Rebbe and his sons believe that internet is more important, so its a machlokas haposkim.
Shmerel
"yomtov.. why didnt they invite YU?"
because YU plans to go with the Bnie yoel Assifa
dovy in NJ
" the charedi tourist industry that is in the billions of dollars a year, "
big question mark on your amount
Dovy in NJ
"part of my point was that the israeli economy is largely dependent upon american charedi money: charedi investors like r. schron who own the largest banks in israel and are shutfim in elal and many other of the biggest businesses"
Its charadie Juvenile bragging, there are close to 100.000 families that dont work and will have more kids with no plan to work, they are costing more then Schrons investment
c'mon, Dovy, you need to get out more
dovy in NJ
sorry to bust your baloon, but do you know that the bulk of Israeli tourism, is from the Christians who come for Christmas, they really boost the economy, they use legitimate Tour guides, with Legitimate Hotels, and legitimate Restaurants
r shteinman aparently just said hafganos are pointless. so... whats up with all this. litvaks not listening to their gdolim? or do they not hold by kol shchina bgronoi..
Nothing like good old maclokes to weaken us and give sonei Torah the ability to hurt us all.
The army issue is a straw issue. The issue is integration chareidim into the zionist model of society, the army is the method. Its not about equality, when the finance minister can't count and the rest aren't much ahead. It IS an apateid state. They have no plans to cut allowances to the arabs or to draft them. "Shaviyon binetel" is the same as an american politician telling you "he loves jews but hates Israel" he's an anti semite. Period.
They want equality, but for some more than others.
if Lakewood could vote for a yid bob singer who dumped his jewish wife and marreiad a shiksah
then reb kotler is not the godal he could stay home!!
Moshe
don't try to act,its a good argument in Lomdus.
But you know the reason of not inducting Arabs in Tzahal,
You will have Fort Hood Texas shootouts on a daily basis
Equal in a democratic society means "all equal" and even you are maskim that its not genuine equality, o it would have to include aabs. Once you aren't including all, in all gezeiros, you can exclude anyone who it is expedient to do so fo political purposes. And now they seem to think its not politically expedient to tolerate the frumme. R"L.
why do i need to get out more?
Moshe Moshel
"Equal in a democratic society means "all equal""
you probably know of the special acceptance policy in all Universities for Minorities.
you probably know about the special SAT scores aimed for Minorities
You probably know of all NYS/NYC contracts that have to be Bided by Minorities only .
All the above is happening in the USA inventor of modern democracy and Equality
The situation is evolving since my earlier post and request for an explanation.
Now there will be a united Satmar hafguneh in Manhattan protesting army conscription, without the Lakewood faction, and the two separate Satmar technology protests have been cancelled for Sunday.
Is there anyone in the know, who can provide commentary or an Op-Ed piece explaining the machinations of the unfolding events ?
Second guessing I can do on my own, TYVM.
Hirsshel
since the first day of your blog you had professionals pontificating who is Mechutz Lemachne who is in the Machne. Can we get them to decide for us, Where Lakewood is currently standing on the Machne issue, since they are not dancing to the tune of the 2 Yoely brothers?
Lakewood IS the machane. werent you at the asifa??
Taking away affirmative action from only one part of the population based on religious belief is discriminatory persecution. The zionist regime has a unique method of tying to be a socialist/democatic societ while fighting judaism at the same time.
http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/06/letter-in-name-of-rav-chaim-kanievsky.html
Moshe Moshel
"Taking away affirmative action from only one part of the population based on religious belief"
it seems you are constitutional scholar, so please teach me the difference between color and religion
Moshe Moshel
"The zionist regime has a unique method of tying to be a socialist/democatic societ while fighting judaism at the same time. "
I wouldn't say so, on Begin, Shamir, Sharon, And Netanyahu,
And lets get back to the point, it is Satmar,Amnon Yitzchok (former Satmar protegee) to blame what is happening now in Israel, had they not stop Jews from participating in the last elections,we would have the coalition build different, these are the raw facts, the rest is all hogwash.
But Satmar will never realize, they have 1 goal to show the Rebbe was GERECHT....
Its clear to anyone sheyesh loi moiach bekodkoi that a sizable portion of the toiroh world roshei yeshivoh and gedoilei Eretz Yisroel including Reb Chayim Kaniyevsky are/were of the oppinion that bnei toiroh in America should participate as harav Vachtfoigl is mei'id bshem Reb Chayims son. Nor darf men zogen az reb chayim hot tzurik gatzoign lichvoid rav shteinman as per the latest letter written by two of rem chayims sons
Wasserman
"portion of the toiroh world roshei yeshivoh and gedoilei Eretz Yisroel including Reb Chayim Kaniyevsky are/were of the oppinion that bnei toiroh in America should participate as harav Vachtfoigl is mei'id bshem Reb Chayims son."
obviously Reb chaim never said what Rav Vachtfogel claims that he said, and Rav vachtfogel has now egg on his face.
Rav Vachtfogel gives good shiurim let him go back to the business that he is good at. The agenda that went to his head that he is right wing, and everyone else is left, is childish bucherish nonsense. He is big enough without this nonsense, I hope he learned a lesson....he messed up once by the Siyum Daf Yomi, on Rav Lau, by replaying the Kamtza Bar Kamtza episode....
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