I see your scared admitting that 1. Not everyone is interested in learning from the Rebbe and 2. That its possible that he ever made a mistake because it will negativly affect your hiskashrus.
That, I wouldn't. Somebodies gotto make sure you can earn a living. We would want you to c"v have to live off your wife like the cavemen and leeches in Lakewood.
It is true not everyone is interested in Rebbe's teaching as it is also true that not everybody is interested in being decent human being, for example drug dealers collecting welfare checks. And some people are dead scared that the Rebbe did not make mistakes as it would mean the Tanya's notion of tzadik is true and also that they - those who are scared of the absence of Rebbe's mistakes - are not the holiest dudes in the world. In other words they know they are jerks and cannot stand that somebody else is not.
People be ware! U personally may benifit from the Rebbes teachings but ur kids may very well suffer. For whatever reason the dropout rate in chabad is huge and disproportionate. They even coined their own term for it: " frieing out". The response to this from lubavitcher will be fast and furious especially from parents who were moser nefesh return to Torah only have such tzaar gidl bonim. heartbreaking! its mtaher tmaim and mtamme thorim Rabosai protect ir kids!
Hirshl why are u afraid to post my reply re the dropouts in Chabad? Scared chabad appologists would get creamed in open open dialogue ? Scared people would think twice before risking their kids futures by introducing them to the lamentable current permissive chabad culture?
Anon "People be ware! U personally may benifit from the Rebbes teachings but ur kids may very well suffer. For whatever reason the dropout rate in chabad is huge and disproportionate" Where are u getting your statistics from ????
you think its bigger than satmar? or maybe its just that in Crown Heights its more visible than in WilyB because CHB"D doesnt throw people out.
freing out has nothing to do with the rebbes teachings. pinkt farkert its the lack of internalizing the rebbes torahs, and the crazies who distort the rebbes torahs what cause kids to lose interest.
טייערע אידען! איך האב אריין געבלאנדזעט דא אין בלאג, און ארום קוקענדיג זעה דא אויפען בלאג צווי סארט מענטשן איך וויל מקדים זיין ווי הרה"ח ר' יואל חזר'ט אייביג וואס איז די חילוק ווען איינער זעהט א זאך צו ער האט נאר א ראיה אויף די זאך ווען ער האט א ראיה קען מען עס אפווענדען מיט א שטערקערע ראיה (אדער סתם ציטאמלען מיט "שארפע " רייד) אבער ווען א מענטש זעהט א זאך קען קיין שום רוח שבעולם דאס נישט אוועק רוקען ווייל "ער" האט דאס "אליין" געזעהן עכת"ד בקיצור איך שמבאר ענין האמונה אצל יהודי ואכהמ"ל עכ"פ זעה איך דא אויפען בלאג מענטשען וואס אדער זעהנען זיי אליין ליבאוויטשער אדער "געווארינער" ווי אונזער חבר ר' הירשל וואס האבען אליין געזען וואס חב"ד איז א צוויטע סארט מענטשען וואס סתם מחמת חסרון ידיעה (או סיבות שאכהמ"ל) האבען זיי פיינט חב"ד איך ווייס ווי אזוי איך האב געקוקט אויף חב"ד סתם אזוי ווי די אלע נארישע לה"ר ווי מען זעהט דא אויפען בלאג פארן בודק זיין די זאך מיט די אייגינע הענט און איך ווייס ווי אזוי איך קוק ב"ה אויף חב"ד היינט ואפשר להעריך הרבה ויקצור הזמן ולא יכלו הדיבורים עכ"פ וויל איך זאגען פאר די אלע גרויסע פקחים וואס מיזען לאזען זייער "גרויסע" מיינונג פאר יעדעם איך בין זעכער אז איר גלייבט אין בעש"ט המגיד אדה"ז וכו' עד דור השישי נאר וואס, ווי האט יענער געזאגט די רבי אויף וועם דו ביזט ברוגז בין איך אויך ברוגז! אלזא די ספרים זענען דא זייט מוחל פאנגט אן לענען חסידות מיט א אמת פון ערשטע דור און גייט דור אחר דור ביזען דור השביעי באקאנט אך גוט מיט די חב"ד היסטוריא וועט אלעס קלאר ווערן אבער גיטס אכטונג נישט ווערן א ליבאוויטשער....
Moshel, you remind me of Korach VeAdso, sheyne yidden who were saying Madua Tisnanu al Kehal Hashem etc.. From the other side you have those who VaYaaminu BaShem UbeMoishe Avdo.
How about Moishe saying Anochi Omed Beyneichem uBein Hashem!
This all only from the sefer yoshon noishan that i have at home called Torah, heard of it?
Did you hear of the tanchuma who says that Ein lcho dor ShEyin bo keMoishe? why does it bother you that lubavitchers think that in their generation it was the rebbe? Do you know anyone who cared and did anything he could for any jew in any corner of the world? Genug sheyn!
Anonymous: I wonder where you get your statistics from? You do realise they don't mean much because you have nothing to compare with realistically? If you have a can of ants where the ants are free to leave, you do expect some ants not to come back. Can you compare this with a can that is hermetically sealed and where the ants don't ever leave except if there is an unpatched hole?
There is no doubt that those who breathe the air outside of the can are faced with bigger challenges. If they are sincere, they will survive and actually be much bigger than those who sit in the cans all their lives.
Zalman asks "why does it bother you that lubavitchers think that in their generation it was the rebbe?"
It doesn't bother me that much, as long as its in the past tense. Dor hashviyi is over by all objective counts. The friends I grew up with are disillusioned that their dream of the Rebbe being revealed as moshiach didn't materialize and are short on what to convey to their kids who never saw him, what its all about.
Let's be real, hiskashrus with a dead rebbe is quite difficult, especially if you've never met him.
"I'm a chosid and I'm proud and I'll sing it out loud 'cuz the rebbes always watching over me", as the Gan Israel son goes is a hard sell to todays kids. If you've made peace with the fact that he died, why him more than the Baal Shem or The Baal Hatanya...?
Moshe Moshel wrote The friends I grew up with are disillusioned that their dream of the Rebbe being revealed as moshiach
Again, I'm no Lubavitcher, but I can't understand the disillusionment as expressed. He made it so ABUNDANTLY clear, immediately after the Shiva of his wife, and thereafter, that he had done all he could, but he needed help, and expected the Chassidim to do MORE. Surely, if the Aybishter decided to take him up to Gan Eden, then it's time for Cheshbon Hanefesh on each Chossid. To me, it doesn't reflect on the Rebbe. He could only advise and ask. At the end of the day, implementation was the function of each Chossid!
Isaac, I've never been down under, but around these parts, many who are not meshichist still plant and fan the expectation in their children that the Rebbe is some how going to be moshiach...
". If they are sincere, they will survive and actually be much bigger than those who sit in the cans all their lives." . Ur assertion canned ants dont " grow" as large needs some proof.
the vilner gaon asked the dubner magid for divrei tochocho. the DM with great pachad said " siz eps a kuntz tzu zein a vilner gaon hinter farmachte tirn? ( the Gaon learnt leor haner bayoim also) . VG after taking a moment replied thoughtfully ( bimisinus) ver zogt az a yid darf a kuntzn macher?
If a protected atmosphere can produce a VG, i think thats an acceptable goal me to have for my kids, if other chinuch systems can surpass that ma tov uma noim vtovoi aleyhem brocho..
22 comments:
More of these types of posts are needed.
משה
ס'וועט דיר גארנישט העלפן
I see your scared admitting that 1. Not everyone is interested in learning from the Rebbe and 2. That its possible that he ever made a mistake because it will negativly affect your hiskashrus.
you saw all that in one "delete" action?
don't quit your day job, pal
That, I wouldn't. Somebodies gotto make sure you can earn a living. We would want you to c"v have to live off your wife like the cavemen and leeches in Lakewood.
It is true not everyone is interested in Rebbe's teaching as it is also true that not everybody is interested in being decent human being, for example drug dealers collecting welfare checks.
And some people are dead scared that the Rebbe did not make mistakes as it would mean the Tanya's notion of tzadik is true and also that they - those who are scared of the absence of Rebbe's mistakes - are not the holiest dudes in the world. In other words they know they are jerks and cannot stand that somebody else is not.
People be ware! U personally may benifit from the Rebbes teachings but ur kids may very well suffer. For whatever reason the dropout rate in chabad is huge and disproportionate. They even coined their own term for it: " frieing out". The response to this from lubavitcher will be fast and furious especially from parents who were moser nefesh return to Torah only have such tzaar gidl bonim. heartbreaking! its mtaher tmaim and mtamme thorim
Rabosai protect ir kids!
Hirshl why are u afraid to post my reply re the dropouts in Chabad? Scared chabad appologists would get creamed in open open dialogue ? Scared people would think twice before risking their kids futures by introducing them to the lamentable current permissive chabad culture?
Anon
"People be ware! U personally may benifit from the Rebbes teachings but ur kids may very well suffer. For whatever reason the dropout rate in chabad is huge and disproportionate"
Where are u getting your statistics from ????
you think its bigger than satmar? or maybe its just that in Crown Heights its more visible than in WilyB because CHB"D doesnt throw people out.
freing out has nothing to do with the rebbes teachings. pinkt farkert its the lack of internalizing the rebbes torahs, and the crazies who distort the rebbes torahs what cause kids to lose interest.
טייערע אידען! איך האב אריין געבלאנדזעט דא אין בלאג, און ארום קוקענדיג זעה דא אויפען בלאג צווי סארט מענטשן
איך וויל מקדים זיין ווי הרה"ח ר' יואל חזר'ט אייביג וואס איז די חילוק ווען איינער זעהט א זאך צו ער האט נאר א ראיה אויף די זאך
ווען ער האט א ראיה קען מען עס אפווענדען מיט א שטערקערע ראיה (אדער סתם ציטאמלען מיט "שארפע " רייד) אבער ווען א מענטש זעהט א זאך קען קיין שום רוח שבעולם דאס נישט אוועק רוקען ווייל "ער" האט דאס "אליין" געזעהן עכת"ד בקיצור איך שמבאר ענין האמונה אצל יהודי ואכהמ"ל
עכ"פ זעה איך דא אויפען בלאג מענטשען וואס אדער זעהנען זיי אליין ליבאוויטשער אדער "געווארינער" ווי אונזער חבר ר' הירשל וואס האבען אליין געזען וואס חב"ד איז
א צוויטע סארט מענטשען וואס סתם מחמת חסרון ידיעה (או סיבות שאכהמ"ל) האבען זיי פיינט חב"ד
איך ווייס ווי אזוי איך האב געקוקט אויף חב"ד סתם אזוי ווי די אלע נארישע לה"ר ווי מען זעהט דא אויפען בלאג פארן בודק זיין די זאך מיט די אייגינע הענט און איך ווייס ווי אזוי איך קוק ב"ה אויף חב"ד היינט
ואפשר להעריך הרבה ויקצור הזמן ולא יכלו הדיבורים
עכ"פ וויל איך זאגען פאר די אלע גרויסע פקחים וואס מיזען לאזען זייער "גרויסע" מיינונג פאר יעדעם
איך בין זעכער אז איר גלייבט אין בעש"ט המגיד אדה"ז וכו' עד דור השישי
נאר וואס, ווי האט יענער געזאגט די רבי אויף וועם דו ביזט ברוגז בין איך אויך ברוגז! אלזא
די ספרים זענען דא זייט מוחל פאנגט אן לענען חסידות מיט א אמת פון ערשטע דור און גייט דור אחר דור ביזען דור השביעי באקאנט אך גוט מיט די חב"ד היסטוריא וועט אלעס קלאר ווערן אבער גיטס אכטונג נישט ווערן א ליבאוויטשער....
Yanover, besides fighting, what is being done to counte the crazies and present the youth with a healthy, vibrant and non rebbe centered yiddieshkeit?
Moshel, you remind me of Korach VeAdso, sheyne yidden who were saying Madua Tisnanu al Kehal Hashem etc..
From the other side you have those who VaYaaminu BaShem UbeMoishe Avdo.
How about Moishe saying Anochi Omed Beyneichem uBein Hashem!
This all only from the sefer yoshon noishan that i have at home called Torah, heard of it?
Did you hear of the tanchuma who says that Ein lcho dor ShEyin bo keMoishe?
why does it bother you that lubavitchers think that in their generation it was the rebbe?
Do you know anyone who cared and did anything he could for any jew in any corner of the world?
Genug sheyn!
Anonymous: I wonder where you get your statistics from? You do realise they don't mean much because you have nothing to compare with realistically? If you have a can of ants where the ants are free to leave, you do expect some ants not to come back. Can you compare this with a can that is hermetically sealed and where the ants don't ever leave except if there is an unpatched hole?
There is no doubt that those who breathe the air outside of the can are faced with bigger challenges. If they are sincere, they will survive and actually be much bigger than those who sit in the cans all their lives.
Zalman asks "why does it bother you that lubavitchers think that in their generation it was the rebbe?"
It doesn't bother me that much, as long as its in the past tense. Dor hashviyi is over by all objective counts. The friends I grew up with are disillusioned that their dream of the Rebbe being revealed as moshiach didn't materialize and are short on what to convey to their kids who never saw him, what its all about.
Let's be real, hiskashrus with a dead rebbe is quite difficult, especially if you've never met him.
"I'm a chosid and I'm proud and I'll sing it out loud 'cuz the rebbes always watching over me", as the Gan Israel son goes is a hard sell to todays kids. If you've made peace with the fact that he died, why him more than the Baal Shem or The Baal Hatanya...?
Zalman, leshitascha, who is now the moshiach of our dor? Follow your own logic, if you can.
Moshe Moshel wrote
The friends I grew up with are disillusioned that their dream of the Rebbe being revealed as moshiach
Again, I'm no Lubavitcher, but I can't understand the disillusionment as expressed. He made it so ABUNDANTLY clear, immediately after the Shiva of his wife, and thereafter, that he had done all he could, but he needed help, and expected the Chassidim to do MORE. Surely, if the Aybishter decided to take him up to Gan Eden, then it's time for Cheshbon Hanefesh on each Chossid. To me, it doesn't reflect on the Rebbe. He could only advise and ask. At the end of the day, implementation was the function of each Chossid!
Isaac, I've never been down under, but around these parts, many who are not meshichist still plant and fan the expectation in their children that the Rebbe is some how going to be moshiach...
". If they are sincere, they will survive and actually be much bigger than those who sit in the cans all their lives." . Ur assertion canned ants dont " grow" as large needs some proof.
the vilner gaon asked the dubner magid for divrei tochocho. the DM with great pachad said " siz eps a kuntz tzu zein a vilner gaon hinter farmachte tirn? ( the Gaon learnt leor haner bayoim also) . VG after taking a moment replied thoughtfully ( bimisinus) ver zogt az a yid darf a kuntzn macher?
If a protected atmosphere can produce a VG, i think thats an acceptable goal me to have for my kids, if other chinuch systems can surpass that ma tov uma noim vtovoi aleyhem brocho..
Pretty bad shiur doesnt say anything very chitzoniesdke view on the rebbe
Zeh mah yesh. I never said it was pnimiyusdik.
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