Monday, November 4, 2013

So Rick Jacobs, URJ President, was a guest at the Kinus HaShluchim Banquet last night. Now they have what to speak about at the AI convention later this month.

Lubavitch sees it as a major "כיבוש"

The keepers of the faith see all their issues with Lubavitch as being vindicated now. They were right all along; Lubavitch is "outside the pale." I guess they'd be right if this Hungary, circa 1869. But Chabad didn't order a table at the URJ's annual convention, it was the other way around, as far as I can see. But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they were wrong for inviting him. Maybe it sends out the wrong message. Maybe they never asked a Rov. Or maybe it's the Hungarian in me talking  - we're very allergic to Reform, you know - and doubting positive action. The jury's out on this one. But then again, if you do NOTHING nobody will EVER criticize you. Nothing positive or constructive, that is. Like this next news blurb:
















In other, more important news, The Sanzer Rebbe visited the Vizhnitzer (Mendel) Rebbe. Hands were shaken, wine was poured into silver goblets, and mounds of grapes, both red and green, were served. The Rebbetzin's yummiest lemon meringue pie was served on her finest bone china. A few anecdotes about deceased grandfathers and maybe even grandmothers were exchanged, and parting words were said, with eyes rolling in ecstasy. According to some people this is how REAL Jewish leaders should be spending their time, not trying to affect actual change in Judaism. This is what Rebbes should be doing with their time.

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

should i throw out my artscrolls?
in every gemorrah, james tisch appears as a member of the board of trustees. i guess this makes mesorah foundation treif.

Novominsker rebbe said...

According to the Tielung, they can not do Teshuva?
I think that the Satmar ruv in teshuvas Divrie Yoel tries to get a heter for a Shochet that worked for the Neologs....
If Ben Gurion would like to come to the 21st of kislev gathering, and basically say the shitah was correct and this is the only way.... they would take with open arms..
The only place nobody comes, is by the AI, since it stands for noting and only the president of the Notings can come there ...

Novominsker rebbe said...

this photo of the Rebbes is galling ....

Novominsker rebbe said...

Hirshel
" Lubavitch is "outside the pale.""
will Chabad now share company with Reb Shmuel Auerbach and Nati grossman, who were thrown Mechutz Lemachne

Novominsker rebbe said...

By most Rebbes they did not accept the tielung...
so whats the problem??
he is a Jew that has to get kiruv to the derech emes.....

Anonymous said...

Yashar koach to chabad. Screw the haters.

Ferdish Snag said...

Why don't you question why the kinnus had Boteach invited. Yes Boteach, who wrote the book about Yoshka etc.

Nah. Tzig will just run along and hide in his pathetic cave.

dovy in j said...

Which "Keepers of the Faith" even spoke about this? I only saw it on bhol. Why so defensive when noone is attacking?

also anon: Yes you should throw out your Artscrolls.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

heading them off at the pass, Dovy in J

fech said...

may ahanu lei rabonon classic

farshemt said...

this exemplifies the dangers in interfaith dialogue, which r' moshe who lubabs supposedly held by forbade. having this rosha on the dais gives him your gushpanke and legitimacy he so doesn't deserve. do a kiruv job on him in private gezunterheit, this public feting is a shande.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

1) there was no headtable
2) it was only made public afte the fact

V'eal Yievoish Mipnie.. said...

Farshemt
"do a kiruv job on him in private gezunterheit, this public feting is a shande."
Did Reb Moshe write in a teshuva that reform jews you can only be mekarev in private..?

אחריות said...

Tzig, Why avekmachen?? maybe this is alienating readers that respect these Rebbes?
Did you make the shikul haDaas if Yotso scharo beHefsedo?
It does bring out your point very well but did you make the shikul hadaas??
we have enough haters, why add more from kehilos that do respect us?!

Farshemt said...

Wherever krinsky was, was the head table and he sat there with him. During the fact and afterwards he was given validation as a Jewish leader by an ostensibly Orthodox group acknowledging him as such. Yes the chilul Hashem started in front of 5k people and will only grow.

duvy said...

Tzig,
There is something troubling in the way you mock the meeting of these two rebbes.Now, I have nothing with chasidim and frankly don't care for the chasidic movement, but you as a lubavitcher always complaining about how lubavitch is always "picked on" (ala sharpton ,who is now warning of a boycott of barneys and macy's for "picking on shechoirem)should not be making fun of others

Anonymous said...

Tzig, you jumped the gun here.. wait and see how this plays out.

Google account said...

When chabad aggrandized matisyahu, many lubavitcher kids felt free to listen to his music. You want cholila the kids to view reform as another brand of Chasidim, at your own peril.

schneur said...

There is a major distinction between honoring a Reform Jew ie a layman and a Reform rabbi especially the NO.1 Reform rabbi. This distinction was usually made by Chabad itself.I certainly recall Chabad rabbis speaking about this in my youth. The lay people were tinokes shenishbeu but the rabbis were in different geder. And all orthiodox Jews knew this little fact.
One need not be of Hungarian extraction to know this,
But anything goes now : . An important CHabad rabbi was a visiting professor at an Ivy League Divinity school training Christian ministers a few years back.
Now I have no idea of the details here so I will not criticize anybody but if he were invited, it is breaking new ground.
Would the Rebbe have invited Alec Schindler, Maurice Eisendrath or Nelson Glueck to sit next to him at a farbrengun(how about inviting Mordecai Kaplan ?) or perhaps they would have been seated next to the Rashag.
As far as the second picture goes these Rebbes are relatives and check out the sefer describing the sichoth of Reb Baruch Schneur and the Rashab and they were not talking Dach 100% of the time either and there is nothing wrong with this.

Tomim Ti said...

Why did they have to be mafarsem that he was there at all? better to keep it quiet.

http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/11/crossing-red-line-crossing-atlantic.html












Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Reb Schneur

1) you may be 100% correct. I wonder who decided this and who was consulted, if anybody.

2) I don't begrudge them the family meeting or the grapes, it was just a contrast. The two stories happened on the same day.

Alte chosid said...

Shneur
"As far as the second picture goes these Rebbes are relatives and check out the sefer describing the sichoth of Reb Baruch Schneur and the Rashab and they were not talking Dach 100% of the time either and there is nothing wrong with this."
All the talks of the Reshab and reb Boruch Shneur were not done in middle of the day, with visits upon visits. The Reshab invited him to his dinner table, as he was not married,it was not a visit leshem visit what this guys are doing non stop.....
It was simple hachnosas orchim for a cousin, he gave chizuk etc....

yoshe kalb said...

They should have invited Cardinal Lustiger while he was still around.
Although he was a meshumad at least he believed, unlike the Reform clergy or Krinsky's pet Louis Jacobs, that the Torah was min hashamayim.

Ungarischer Chosid said...

Shneur
"One need not be of Hungarian extraction to know this, "
the basis of the tielung, was that as soon the Neolog or frie jew starts to realize your side and eventually will join your ranks, then he is more accepted then a Jew that puts on rebinie taams tefilin, but is still gripping the other side.
The Rabbi by participating at a chabad event that is aimed to promote a movement that is based on halacha, has yielded to orthodoxy, and chas vesholem the opposite, this was the view in orthodoxy in Hungary, look in Shvilie David etc...
But Chasidim on there own, are not interseted to push away this Jews forever (as the hungarian tielung intended) a reform jew has the same Chelek Elokai Mimaal Mamesh as Reb Yoel Titelbaum and Reb Yoel Kahan.

Google account said...

It was publicized because they are proud

schneur said...

, And Reb Yoel Kahan's visit with Rabbi Povorsky in Bnai Brak Was that held late at night ? There was no sichos chulin there ?
Indeed chassiduth (at least the Russian variety ) has a different view on Reform , but not about Reform rabbis who have a different din , they have studied Judaism and get up in their temples preaching apikorsus . These gents (and ladies by the way would Krinsky invite a Female reform rabbi) have a different geder than the rank and file tinokos shenishbeu. The Rebbe endorsed the letter by the leading roshim yeshiva against the Synagogue Council and orthodox participation in it and also against Orthodox rabbis joining the NY Board of Rabbis or do Lubavitcher chassidim now endorse the defunct Synagogue council and permit joining the Board of rabbis. Oh how I wish Rav David Hollander were here to assist me.

Ungarischer Chosid said...


yoshe Kalb
If Lustiger would come without the cross. He should of been accepted with open arms, he was a Jew and his Jew forever

Moshe Yankel said...



as far as these picture of the 2 Rebbes are concerned, its for sure that there fathers who were big masmidim, despised this visits and empty talk,

Atvotzker chosid said...



Hirshel
" you may be 100% correct. I wonder who decided this and who was consulted, if anybody."
obviously you are wrong,and you should not be apologetic.
The famous pew poll, showed that reform Jewry is dead, and they realized it too, and if this event will help a Shaliach to have better access to more Yiden,and the hurdles of that movement will lessen a drop. Then it was the biggest mitzva to be done,
Don't fall in to this trap, Hirshel.
Its like the Viznitzer could not go the Daf Yomi Siyum because of Rabbi Lau who has some Zionist title in his resume coming there.
EDITED

Alte chosid said...

Schneur
" And Reb Yoel Kahan's visit with Rabbi Povorsky in Bnai Brak Was that held late at night ? There was no sichos chulin there ?"
This 2 Rebbes met already 30 times, and they will meet in their lifespan another million times.
As you know and the whole world knows,that Reb Yoels visit was of historical proportions, it broke the ice in a town and a yeshiva that 20 to 30 prior to that visit, Chabad was ostracized on a daily basis, it produced hate globally. Reb Yoel did discuss a nice dvar torah and then spoke to a friend he lost 65 years ago, who BTW, told him that he himself had a yechidus by the Rebbe
You know its no analogy of the visits, so go back to your stash with some better argument

ימים יגידו said...

פירצה בגדר שגדרו ראשונים
Lopatin has to be as happy as can be. He is no longer the lone shaigetz lending legitimacy to the reform.

Chaim burech said...

Hirshel
"2) I don't begrudge them the family meeting or the grapes"
they are not close family at all, its like I and thousand others are related to the Turie Zahav
The viznitzer has some Sanzer blood thru his mother thru Dezh...
Och Mir a Kuzin

schneur said...

To believe that Rick Jacobs has "yielded to orthodoxy" shows a naivete that marks many who have been brainwashed by the Kiruv movement. Rather than speculating of his yielding to Orthodoxy , I await news tomorrow that his organization has introduced mechizoth in 24% of their temples removed the microphones (many reform temples ban Kippoth) fired their clergy and basically dissolved themselves. And how about patrilineal descent that Rick Jacob's endorses ? Mamzeruth is no longer important to Chabad ? By the way Rick's movement also does not believe in gittin in kashruth in Shabbath in Taharas hamishpocha and this guy is given kavod ? Until I hear that the truth is that Chabad recognized a Reform clergy as a genuine Jewish leader and perhaps as a rabbis , a matter that goes beyond teillung, as noted in the declaration in 1956 against the Synagogue Council which the Nasi hador endorsed. This has little to do with teillung IT has to do with giving kavod to a koffer who is in the geder of a rasha !!! It seems that some in Chabad are looking to YCT as to see how to treat the non Orthodox clergy.
In the Chabad of my youth Reform rabbis and even Conservative rabbis were michutz lamachne but the dor shmini knows better !

Anonymous said...

no problem noticed george weinberger in the crowd as well!

Kalba savua said...

You have to realize why this reform leader chose to use a chabad event for his self promotion. He is currently celebrating the "victory" of women of the wall... R"l

faish said...

Shneour,
Welcome back!
Being a long time.
You were sorely missed

Anonymous said...

funny, i watched the kinnus online and didn't notice this guy was there.
the camera focused several times on lieberman, woodsley (ex-cia), rohr, farkas, and not this guy.
where did they give him kovod?
there's no head table, all the tables are round. the setup is that shluchim will populate their table with people they are connected with.
the dancing on stage seemed to just happen and wasn't planned at all. what should they do, throw him off?

and btw, arthur schneier was at a farbrengen (12 tammuz, don't remember the year, 5744?). He asked R' Hershel Fogelman to go with him and RHF asked the Rebbe if he can bring him, and the Rebbe agreed. During the farbrengen, the Rebbe motioned to him and his son to say l'chaim. he wasn't on the dais, but everyone knew he was there.

shauly said...

The Chabadskerz probably got answer in the affirmative from the igreis kaidesh

Benjy said...

Lubobs crave attention, money and pretty women with 5 thousand $ shaitels and will do anything to get them.
What a corrupt cult

mendy said...

"arthur schneier was at a farbrengen"

Schneir is Orthodox.Idiot

avi said...

Chabad=Reform with beards and fake Russian accents.
What's the big deal here.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"and btw, arthur schneier was at a farbrengen (12 tammuz, don't remember the year, 5744?). "
Arthur Schneier is a Orthodox Rabbi,...
whats your point?

haim Burech said...

Benjy
"Lubobs crave attention, money and pretty women with 5 thousand $ shaitels and will do anything to get them.
What a corrupt cult"
Did a Lubob ever steal your girl, shitel or your money
Whats your problem idiot?

Ungarischer chosid said...

I am not so old, and Shnier knows it too, but I remember the hollering against the Rebbe, for giving a hakofa, and speaking on the dais, with Chaim Koen who just married a divorcee, on the holiest night of the Chasidic calender, Simchas torah, Chaim Koen was no Tinak shenishba , he was a talmid of Merkaz Harav.
Obviously Rebinie Hakodash of Lubavich had different views then the Lochem Milchamas hashem Reb Shenier.
He would prefer only to talk to a Jew that repented on every sin, even for not spitting by Oilenie...
The term yielding for a reform Leader meant that he and his movement will not work against the Shaliach that shows up across the street from one of their congregation.
I like his Satmar like arguments of Rosha and Kofar,who is being used very selectively, Bloomberg a Jew a Kofer, does not believe in anything, who is by now more hurting Charadie Jewry on a personal level, then this reform leader, was hailed on Lee corner Ross,in front of 1000's of kids as the malach hamoshia of our doir....

mendy said...

"Arthur Schneier is a Orthodox Rabbi,...
whats your point?"

The point is that RICK is Reform

Ungarischer chosid said...

Schneur
"The Rebbe endorsed the letter by the leading roshim yeshiva against the Synagogue Council and orthodox participation in it and also against Orthodox rabbis joining the NY Board of Rabbis or do Lubavitcher chassidim now endorse the defunct Synagogue council and permit joining the Board of rabbis"
The Rebbe did not believe in fighting old labels just for the sake of fighting. Its not a viable movement as it was in its heydays.So lets move on. The FR after the war stopped with all his agendas against any movements, he was looking to work with anybody.Unfortunately their are too many Jews today, who if they not have on their tombstone Lochem Milchmas hashem, they feel they lost out on the chovas Heodam beolomoi, Look in the obituaries in the Der Yid Blatt etc... every Rav that died in the last 200 years is eulogized as a Lochem, and from there it goes to all segments...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous mendy said...
"arthur schneier was at a farbrengen"

Schneir is Orthodox.Idiot"

total misspell on my part
it was Alexander Schindler, at the time president of UAHC
he pushed for patrilineal recognition yet the Rebbe recognized him at a farbrengen.

Anonymous said...

טייערע אידען! עס איז געווען א בעש"ט אויף דער וועלט, דערנאך דער מגיד , און דערנאך די אלטער רבי ואחריו הששה דורות של אדמורי חב"ד אויב איז דער בעש"ט תורת אמת זענען אלע דערנאך אמת אויב גלייבט איר ח"ו נישט אין איינער פון די דעמאלט גלייבט איר אין בעש"ט אויך נישט און נאך מער ווי די חת"ס האט געזאגט "מי שחולק על תורת הנסתר בגלוי חולק בנסתר על תורת הנגלה " (אויב איר פארשטייט נישט ווי אלס גייט צוזאם זייט מוחל פאנגטאן לערנען חסידות אנגעהויבען פון תניא לקוטי תורה וכו' וכו' און לערנט די חב"ד היסטוריא

peretz chernigover said...

Chabasker bal dimyon,
I don't know all that much about chsides. But if you think the going ons in lubavitch have any connection to yahadus let alone chssudes ur r a bal dimyon

Zurech Nevler said...

Peretz
can you be more specific?
The Balie Avierois in Ch?
The Meshichisten???
Dont throw statements out of the blue

ulayhasechelyibar alhakovod hamdumeh said...

1) they didn't publicize in the papers that Shinlers was at the farbrengen and put the pictures of him at the farbrengen. He came as everyone else and the Rebbe didn't give him a lechayim annonucing that he is a "Reform rabbi" as the lubavitch blogs did now.

2)not fighting battles (which rashab and Rayatz fought zionists and communists and the Rebbe fought his battles but even if one decides that it is not time for any battles...) does not mean legitimizing people who carry the title raabi for a kofer. No wonder the amount of farkurmte ideas by the children of chabad...

3)NO wonder you guys are mixed up and the kids have a choolent education that you have to hate sngas (ahavas yisroel for them isnot included in the Baak Shem tOv 's and Rebbe's sichot as loving refrom kofers) and love reform kofers...



anon 3:40 said...

Anonymous ulayhasechelyibar alhakovod hamdumeh said..."

1. you're correct abt the publicity. but his being at the kinnus & even sitting next to krinsky and that was my point with schindler
2. we choose our battles, and i don't run a moisad so who am i/u to judge what's the fight worth having
3. i don't know what education you're talking about, BH my kids are taught to love every Jew regardless of affiliation.

alte koze said...

Thank you Tzig for returning to form in your blurb on the Tzanz/Vizhnitz summit. It's the voice some of us old timers recall but which has been missing of late. Bloggers are the nevi'im of our dor and we need to hear more. A lot more.

someone said...

Anon. 5:41
big deal, so he doesn't believe in the besht. He believes in H-Shem and His Torah, in Toras HaNigleh and Toras Hanistar. He believes in the 13 ikarim. He will just accept the belief that the Besht and the Ba'al HaTanya etc. were not right against their opponents. Does that make him a kofer? If yes, can you prove it with Torah logic?

Alte chosid said...

Someone
if in our day and age that the Majority of klal yisroel and its gedolim were chasidim, then you are a kofer if you dont believe in toras habesht and his disciple the baal hatanye

Alte chosid said...

"annonucing that he is a "Reform rabbi" as the lubavitch blogs did now."
are shturem or COL official chabad blogs? its run by chabad chasidim as the Algemiener was run by Gershon Jacobson, I believe that he reported in his newspaper that Shindler was by the Farbrengen
the only offical blog, is Chabad org. was it publicized there?

Alte chosid said...

Someone
"He believes in H-Shem and His Torah, in Toras HaNigleh and Toras Hanistar."
why do you believe in Toras Hanistar?

Paging Rabbi David B. Hollander said...

Is there a new Reform-Habad alliance afoot?

They both have open parking lots on Shabbos. Both do not insist on people being frum.

What is going on here?

Without the Rebbe, you have Botachs and Jacobs at the conference. What would it be like with the Rebbe around? Lubavitch is like a ship without a captain, with various people trying to seize the wheel. Look out for seizures!

lozmirup said...

Anonymous Alte chosid said...
"annonucing that he is a "Reform rabbi" as the lubavitch blogs did now."
are shturem or COL official chabad blogs? its run by chabad chasidim as the Algemiener was run by Gershon Jacobson, I believe that he reported in his newspaper that Shindler was by the Farbrengen
the only offical blog, is Chabad org. was it publicized there?"

chk this link and say some tehillim that the "head shluchim" zolin zich chapen tzum seichel vos shneller
this is the official website and they title him rabbi

http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2038603/The-Banquet-Dinner-Chabad-Draws-Support-From-Unexpected-Allies.html

Anonymous said...

What's wrong is wrong!

No need to defend those responsible for inviting and publicizing it.

But that does not diminish the Rebbe or his Shluchim.

What Krinsky decided to do is his own affair.

lol said...

krinsky is the boss

Anonymous said...

krinsky is the boss
ח"ו

Anonymous said...

and make no mistake ...it's a warped and dangerouus outlook and you can see this in this other article

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/what-chabad-shluchim-really-think-about-chabad-house-jews/

you need to search for the jew divorced from mitzvot in practice....

as the say in lubavitch "mitzvoh goreert mitzvoh" one mitzvah brings another one...but the foget the second part "Averoh goreress...."....having a special guest a "Refrom RAbbi" and taking pictures with him and writing that he is one of the special guest at the banquet goes hand in hand with searching for the path that shows a yid connection to G-d without the vurdens of Torah and mitzvot rachmonoh litzlon!

Kantzelie said...

Anon
"but the foget the second part "Averoh goreress...."....having a special guest a "Refrom RAbbi""
putting on tefilin for a Jew is a Mitzvas Ese Mideoraiso,
Find me the Aivira in the torah for inviting a Jew with a certain label....was he Oiver Avira while he was there...? as the Brisker ruv said my father Reb Chaim is machmir in hilchas Pikuech Nefesh, the Kinnus Organization were machmir in Mitzvas Ahavas Yisroel, they maybe invited a Yid that should of not been invited...

Modechai chuna said...

did the Viznitzer rebbes drink on Wendesdays with their silver Bechers?
Did the Becher of Wednesday have the Ruzhiner pedestal?
I heard years ago that there is a difference between the Viznitzer Becher and the Ruzhiner Becher, can someone please clarify, I hae sleepless nights on these dilemmas

Tomim said...

Lozmir up
thanks for the reference to the chabad site.
I am very impressed with the words of the reform leader
"Rabbi Rick Jacobs, President of the Union for Reform Judaism shared a table with Rabbi Krinsky. “It’s inspiring to be with a group of Jewish leaders who feel so passionately about bringing the love of yiddishkeit and the life of commitment to the widest possible circle,” he told lubavitch.com. “It’s a privilege to be in this circle, and to talk with Rabbi Krinsky about what is really challenging the Jewish people.”
it looks like a move in the right direction, I know he will not be as conservative as Schneur wants him to be, but being a mamin in nishmas yisroel... I can see some positive move along the road

Anonymous said...

"Find me the Aivira in the torah for inviting a Jew with a certain label....was he Oiver Avira while he was there"

ghe new age Lubavitcher don't even know the vehemence of the Rebbe in not giving hem legitimacy; you want to want any yid fine, but give him the title "Rabbi" and write in the blog the great accomplishment of the "rabbi" was there....i can't start to teach alef beit....but the results in seeing a jew divorced from the constraints of halacha and torah is seen in many areas in lubavitch land....

Anonymous said...

http://crownheights.info/videos/410213/video-reform-leader-at-1984-farbrengen-in-770/

Where in here: 1) do we find the Rebbe calling Shilndler a "rabbi" as R' Krinsky does in lubavitch.com? 2) From this snippet I can't see that the Rebbe actually gives him special attention (or any attention) at all -if any it would be like any other yid at the farbrengen-). HOw can they comapre and go on to defend themselves that thisis legitimate to publicly call him and relate to him as a "rabbi"?

New age Litvak said...

stop with this RABBI nonsense, by frumme yiden RABBI is no a title... its an american
they did not call him Harav???

New age Litvak said...

a couple of years ago Lakewood was brewing on a book that was written by a Reform rabbi and Rav Rienman, a big Talmid chochem,he wrote the best sefer from all of Lakewood, He was a good friend of the Mashgiach, Rav Solamon,and he gave him a Haskoma.
Everything went smooth till the vocal minority of the Svie group, who know 1 thing, that anything in Lakewood done by the Mashgiach and the Kotlers have to be Critiqued by them.Since they have the mandate of Reb Aron thru their Rebbe Reb Elye,how to lead Klal Yisroel. Pressure was mounted, letters were send against the Mashgiach, and the Mashgiach had to pull back his Haskoma, for awhile he was low profile in town.
I guess in every generation there is a exclusive few who are destined to know the real Rotzan hashem As Schneur in our case, and Svie in the Lakewood book saga