The Alter Rebbe, whose Yohrtzeit is on Tuesday C"D Teves, expected us to awaken our hearts to the service of Hashem through Meychen, learning about Gadlus HaBeyre, which in turn leads to Ahavah and Yireh. I believe the idea was and is that Avodas Hashem without learning the Inyonim, although it may seem like the heart burns with love for the Eybershter is not a true Aveydeh.
My question is as follows: Did the AR opine that only a pure Aveydeh is to be strived for, and that although the Chagas'nik may do the Mitzvah with seemingly more Kavoneh and daven with more varemkeyt, that the davenen and mitzvah is "worthless", maybe not in the Schar/Onesh realm, but worthless neverthless?
Most people will tell you that waiting for such opportunity is being unrealistic, but yet they'll daven a 45 minute Yom Kippur Shmone Esrey full of silly if not stupid Machshoves. They'll try hard to awaken some kind of excitement within themselves whether by intense swaying or loud clapping and chanting, which usually does nothing more than anger your neighbors and gets you to think that you're somebody important.
The Kotzker said it best, although they went to the other extreme of being "realistic". He once visited an old Chossid who was on his deathbed and asked him "נו, יענקל, ביסט שוין פטור געווארען פון די יצר הרע"? Yankel answered "No, Rebbe, he's telling me now פארמאך דיר די אייגען און זאג הויך שמע ישרא-ל, זאל דער עולם מיינען אז דא איז געשטארבען א צדיק" .
Never be sure of yourself.
(Photos of Reb Nissen O"H courtesy of SHTUREM
37 comments:
Please correct me, but it sounds like our choice is:
1. Display external emotion (which many sifrei Chassidus state will actually help one's prayer) and risk possibly fooling yourself into thinking you are something you're not.
2. Look askance at those who display emotion, since it may be "fake" and risk actually never doing any avodah altogether.
Hmmm...
I was thinking of that while putting this together, but then I thought "Tzig, those who fool themselves just become more fooled as time goes on".
Of course the answer would be to strive for the ultimate and hope that you have some Syata Dishmaya.
My good friend,
I would say that both ways we need great siyata Dishmaya.
It is very hard for me to see which path is better, and I am pretty sure that this is the basic point of disagreement between the Kalisker and the Alter Rebbe. The Alter Rebbe's derech was once described by a leading Chassidic figure as follows:
It is like someone has a super-high-powered weapon than is unparalleled but never used...
Obviously, as chassidei Chabad we will have to disagree, but not because that case can't be made.
I, personally, say harbei derachim lemakom. All of them valid; all of them with an element of risk.
i follow the Alter Rebbe because he is my Rebbe, not because I can point to an inherently superior path.
yes, Krechts, but why then did you choose him over all the others?
Vos veis ich, but there is a story told about a chossid who came to the Ar and "complained" that a friend of his, a Hamdurer Chossid, had such a Chayes in davenen, er davent mit a bren! and he didn't. The AR answered him "ער ברענט ? ר' חייקל (האמדורער) ברענט אין אים!
meaning that his davenen is b'emes not better than yours, therefore you needn't be concerned.
איי who cares where bren comes from? It seems like the Ar did care. he would have no part of it.
Hirshel
it seems you're still counting on people like Reb Nissen to prove your point. That may be true, and it probably is, but what good is that today, for today's kids?
C'mon lay off these mumbo jumbo posts and forced Lubab pronunciations (tAyreh,aveidah etc is this the way you were taught ivry in Spink?)
Avremel,I love the way you 'quote' a (babbeh)'mayseh' as if it was Torah Misinai and 'learn' from it.
Who said the whole babeh mayseh is true, and even if true, who Said that what you are 'reading' into it is true?
I guess if you take away the 'maysehs' from Chabadskers they'll be left with nothing, Torah thery don;t have, tefilla.......nu,nu, Vos izz gebliben.......
vml
You're right they maynot be true, but then again what if they are? hmmm?
Did I say that I went to Spinka Cheyder?
Maybe Chabad is just maysehs and nothing else, maybe the AR didn't write the SA, maybe he had a ghostwriter, someone like the GR"O write it for him?
HT,
I chose him because the AR's message resonated with me.
VML,
is this your site:
http://unorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2005/08/enemy-within-part-three-chassidism-is.html
Just,
I don't think VML is that apikores, he only hates Lubavitchers...
krechts
which message was that?
Chsidishetourist:
Thanks for the wishes.
HT,
What message?? I would start with sefer Tanya Kadisha...
And I second the birthday wishes!
Krechts
that's my point! what part of tanya "spoke" to you if like you say, "harbey drochim lamokom"?
thanks for the b-day wishes
I think VML is the Liozhner.
VML- you are bored, to be scouring the internet for random places to shoot impertinent bullets at chabad. Anyone that followed the post would simply wonder where you landed from. Also, your continuous badgering of chabad history- as 'bubeh mayses' is not only offensive, but it reminds us why we are lucky to be lubavitchers, as your skepticm is the beginning of a road that ends in ch"v calling many other things bubbeh mayses. Don't waste your time explaining to me the difference between rebbishe stories and stories printed in the torah before chassimus hatalmud- i know it, and I'm not equating them by all measures. The problem is that you dismiss stories that are supernatural or heroic as bubeh mayses- possibly because of your skepticm with regard to the possibility of these occurences. I know-- you believe with emunah sh'laimah that Hashem can perorm miracles, you just think its unlikely that these miracles were performed by these people, especially because of the discrepancies in chabad history. Well- many people 'believe' in G-d's ability to perform miracles, but say, Kriays yam suf is undocumented in history- the midrashim have conflicting stories, where is the yam suf (see the Living Torah, and so on), and so on. The most monumental event in Jewish history- matan torah- an argument if it was on the 6th or 7th of sivan.
Maybe you're bothered by the attention and scrutiny we attach to these stories-- we 'learn' from them. Afilu sichas chulim shel talmid chacham tzarich limud. Do you not know that?
Your skepticm doesn't sound to me like a yeshivisher misnaged- b/c the ones I encountered (i grew up as one- went to telz Riverdale)would never admit such skepticm about something which is clearly important in Torah. You sound more like the early maskilim that subsequently 'figured out' b'chachmasam hagedolah that there are too many conflicts in Talmudic and Tanach history, and no longer cared about the maysehs. The they said-- if you don't have the maysehs, you have nothing... Which is what many of those people are left with.
So don't be upset that we expect our rebbeim to be people that serve Hashem 24/7 and every word out their mouth to be an act of service worth learning from. Don't be bothered if we believe that G-dliness is present enough in this world for those who are truly in touch to be ra'ui of receiving miracles.
Tzig- The beinoni's davening on his madregah is S'fas emes tikon le'ad. The thing about the hergeshim-- I think the AR thiks its worthless-- not in such a harsh way, but its not maximizing the koichos. Every person can become a beinoni in one second, therefore, everyone is shayich to thinking chassidus and having truly powerful avoidas hatefillah. So its not a choice between real emotion for those than can reach it or nothing- its real emotion, its actually possible for everyone to reach it and they have a chiyuv. (I admit- I am guilty!)
maaravah, may you blessed, we finally got a long, yet clear post on the subject at hand.
what are you guilty of?
what vml may not notice, but is definitely guilty of, is what many are guilty of, namely a Chisoron in Emunah, of Torah, tzaddikim, and Torah shebaal peh. Not because of something that he did or read, but rather from a lack of learning the inyonim. That is basically what we can derive from his very sharp rebukes.
VMl
please go easy when you respond.
Tzig
the alter rebbe was a "realist", and so when he devised his torah he saw the generations to come and had them in mind too when he wrote the Tanya and said the mamorim. Saying he didn't mean us is a COP-OUT. nothing less.
Tzig- I am guilty of being able to daven properly and not doing it. so is eveyone else who does't. The AR wants people to do the most they can, and ein HKBH ba bitrunya im briyosav. The question is, are those who you describe as chagasniks, (admittedly your labeling is unecessarily prejudicial, but the point is sufficiently clear) maximizing their aveydah in a pure manner. Can they? everyone can. Anyone who doesn't is not an eved Hashem and their back is worth one zuz instead of 2 :)
Boro Park has a Heichal Menachem. Maybe it's time for Crown Heights to have a Peilisher equivalent
I think that in this inyan the Lubavitcher derech as described here (which is not necessarily the same as what goes on 'out there') is like, if not exactly the same as, the Litvishe non-Hassidic or misnagdic derech. I think there is some similarity too to the derech of Ruzhin. They are also against "intense swaying or loud clapping and chanting" (uviKEREV kidayshim toskadosh is a vort of their's). There are a number of similarities between the derech of Ruzhin and the Litvishe derech (which includes Lubavitch in some cases). Another possible case - I saw recently somewhere that the Ruzhiner minhag is not to sing licho daydi (just to say it I guess) - I think I saw it in the Yoseid of all places. I think that is the old Litvishe minhag as well (still kept in some places). What is minhag Lubavitch with regard to that ?
the alter rebbe was not all or nothing as far as ahavah and yirah go ...a little trying has value as well..see perek 41...the mittler rebbe and ahron strasseler may be a different issue :)
....Furthermore, even in the case of of an individual who even in his mind and thought feels no fear or shame…. nevertheless, since he is intent in his service to serve the King, this is unequivocally a complete service…....Furthermore, as a matter of fact, he not only fulfills the obligation of service, he also fulfills the commandment of fearing [G d] by introducing the fear into his thought — by thinking about it and seeking to arouse it….
For though it may not be in his heart in perfect and complete truth, so that he should long for it with all his heart, for in order to truly do so one must have attained a totally selfless love for G d, nevertheless, to some small extent, his heart genuinely desires it, because of the inborn love in every Jewish heart to do whatever is the Supernal Will of G d…..And this union — the union of the source of all Jewish souls with the infinite Ein Sof-light — is His true desire….
hershel- LCHAIM! don't be nispoel by those who say to dilute the message! zey zol zein R' nissan
"Some people are so anxious to perform a certain mitzvah in a grand manner that they end up not doing it at all."
(Reb Noson of Breslov)
coming from 24 Teves..poyel yeshuois...
Mentioning the name of the Alter Rebbe (sifsoisov..) brings a sort of trembling and fear, tinckering with such Holiness.
The greatest value of a Yid is his Nefesh Elokis, and its' greatest strength is Chochmo. Ki am chochom.. and this is accessed through Torah Hashem and at its deepest levels through pnimius Hatorah.
When a person develops through hisboinenus (and everyone has HIS level that he reaches) an appreciation for Veyodato es Hashem,,da es Elokai Ovicho...and its on an intellectual level,i.e. its deep inside, chitzonius becomes cheap, inconsequential.
Chitzonius has its place, the Alter Rebbe himself spoke of fake Chassidim who work from the outside and it finally makes an impression on the inside,
As a royey Isroel of the Chabad (Chochmo Bina..) type, The Alter Rebbe leads his sheep and knows the phenomenol strength of the Nefesh Elokis at its deepest and strongest levels, and encourages and prods us, that when drawn from the in out, it is meshaneh Tevah Haregilus.
That is the goal, the destination,
I'm still very far but at least I have a goal up in the stars
Tzemach, thanks for the well wishes.
Minhag Chabad is not to sing Lecho Dodi, although in 770 they do as well as in many other shuls, for the last 30-odd years. The same goes for Minhag Chernobyl, so maybe it's a Russian thing.
In many ways Chabad and Litvish do have similarities. They stress learning as the Ikker, where in Chabad the whole inyan of Tishen, Shrayim etc. was not accepted. The shayleh is what to learn in addition to Limud HaNigleh. (In the Rakoshiker (Lita) yizkor book there are articles there about the fact that Chabadniks in the Lita sent to Telz because they both stress learning.)
Stopping by: when you say grand manner do you mean spiritually grand, or with great fervor?
takeh-emes
I think what the AR meant by "fake chitzoniyus" having an affect on the Pnimiyus he didn't mean to show the world that he's a Tzaddik, he probably meant actual aveydeh, hisbonenus, aveydas hatfiloh etc. i.e. "acting" as if you're shayech to these inyonim even if you're not. He most definitly did not mean to "chapp Malochim" as if you're a Tzaddik.
Hirshel Tzig
"He most definitly did not mean to "chapp Malochim" as if you're a Tzaddik."
I'm not sure what you mean.
If the person truly wants emes and presently halt nisht ingantzen at that level and he is trying through gestures to help himself, even though that's certainly not an emphasis in Chabad , what's wrong with that?
If the person is an outright fake, to show off and come acroos as totally what his not, total sheker.. better that a person fake being a serious davener when he's not, than being an emeser not shul go-er.
That's what the AR once remarked at some fake people. quoting from the Mishna a person who fakes being poor to get Tzedokoh loi yomus until. and merubo midoh toivo.. a person who fakes being a Tzadik ..at least he's faking good things.
There is certainly a quality in being emes in all circumstances, echod bepeh ve-echod baleiv even when being not so good.
in this scenario I believe that was the AR remark meant to address.
This should not detract from the goal which is to reach deep inside, which is korov lechol Odom and draw from the deep resevoir within.
if i may just ad a line to takeh emes
mitooich sheloi lishmoh bo lishmoh
and that is the truth zitzen un davenen Shaos lang weather du hust epes ufgetun tzu nisht you deffinitly did not go home fress the tcholent and chap a shluf isnt that a good thing
as Rabbi Piejarski once said you see the guys sitting in 770 shuckeling davening and when they finish they look up at the clock to see if the timing is satisfactory...
but not neccesarily is that a bad thing because one day he will take fardaven zich BECAUSE he has to fill in the time!!!
What about the famous story (in Likkutei Dibburim?) of the Alter Rebbe's chaveirim wanting to ostracize those with yir'as shamayim tiv'is and the AR being th eonly one who stood up for them? He suffered for this, too.
explain "ostracize" please.
I'm baffled about the pontification about this or that derech in davening when it comes from Luvavitchers who don't even maintain or approach the minimal standard of halachic fulfillemnt of davening....I see it in my shul and it is quite distressing...I for one don't care about what poeple think, but this is embarrasing to our rebeim....how can we talk about the davening 'stategies and finances' of others when we are truly bankrupt on both an indvidual, shul, and very likely communal level (majority of folks)?
n, clarification: 'i dont care about whta people think'....only maeans that its silly to be concerned about the opinions of others when you are doing what is correct...i.,e, not sucuming to peer pressure...
N
way to badmouth your shul there. They must be real proud of ya.....
HT,
All of us read, tell, and revel in our Chabad heritage of aveida. Have you seen it in practice much? Recently? Where?
N-
I see your pont but your not looking at the whole picture. Walk into 770 on average day and it might seem a bit chaotic. But, in many corners and pockets in 770 you will find truly chassidiher jews wrapped in their tallis, davening vi es darf tzu zein. I personally see such people frequently. One thing about chabad is that many who are truly passionate are not concerned about being recognized. Its not the same as anivus in many other circles; these people truly do not feel important and they, for the most part go unnoticed. So next time you're in a shul with true chassidim, look around and the people you've never noticed, and i think you will be surprised to see that there are still people that daven, or try to daven, according to chabad standards.
N's TL:
all of us read? of really? if there would be more reading going on we'd have less of a problem.
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