Credit:SanzUSA
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Many of you may know about the Klausenburger Rebbe's recent trip to Eretz Yisroel to speak at the Siyum of the Shas Oz VeHodor. That event needs a post of its own, how the whole world of Rabbonim was coerced into showing up at nothing more than a business venture, but that's for another time. Once there he made the rounds and visited any Rov, Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva that he could - besides for his own brother, of course, who was in America at the time, fanning the flames of the great split between the two here in America according to some. There was one visit that he made that bothered me in particular, the visit to Rav Elyashiv ZG"Z. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him visiting, it's just what went on there that really bothered me. Never have I seen a Chassidishe Rebbe who's so at home when others come to visit him lose himself when in the presence of a Litvisher Godol. It's as if he totally forgot that he's a Rebbe of hundreds of Chassidim, he was almost like a 9th grade Rebbe of a local Mesivta visiting.
We often speak here about the general state of Chassidim today, and how many have lost their pride and their sense of accomplishment. They're not sure why they're any better than those who have not what they have, and practice not what they practice. They think that all they have over the Litvishe is a different code of dress and a more stringent level of women's Tznius. They forget about the Mesirus Nefesh that the Baal Shem Tov and Talmidov Acharov had to found, build and spread Chassidus, and they think that it's all about dress codes and customs. In America and Europe they feel proud and special, since in comparison to the Litvishe and more modern they seem more frum and committed to Yiddishkeit. Once they get to Eretz Yisroel Bichlal and Yerushalayim Bifrat they lose their pride. They see their brethren of non-Chassidic persuasion be just as - if not more - committed to Yiddishkeit, and doing it on a shoestring budget, without the luxuries they're used to in the US. One look at Rav Elyashiv's house (evem all nice and painted) shows you all you need to see. No mounds of out of season fruit in huge silver dishes. No huge silver decanters with matching little LeChaim cups. No flashy "Rebbishe " clothing. Just plain old Torah and Pashtus. When the Klausenburger saw that Hut er Zich Ingantzen Farloren....
75 comments:
I'm gonna be nice here, Tzig--or at least I promise to try--but what you are describing, in my opinion, is the greatness of the Klausenberger Rebbe. He SHOULD be completely taken by such a lifestyle.
But I sense something more here, something which I found disturbing. Why SHOULD a chussid--even in America--FEEL more frum than a Litvisher Yid? Why should he fee more furm than a modern orthodox Yid? I have never encountered a litvisher yid--the real dealwho could be described--in pnimius terms--as less frum than an ADMOR. I would suggest that you develop more ahavas Yisroel and a more positive look on other Jews.
Mayshe
I speak of a sense of pride as to who you are and what you subscribe to. It's not a silly haughtiness. I'm not telling them to feel good about themselves and not change, I'm saying be proud of who you are!!!
remember the buisness venture how shazar placed his hands on the rebbes shoulder and the rebbes kissed him on the cheek he embarresed plenty of chasidim but chasidim in kfar chabad cashed in heavy on this embrace
>>"In America and Europe they feel proud and special, since in comparison to the Litvishe and more modern they seem more frum and committed to Yiddishkeit."
I think the above sentence premises pride by comaprison--that's not an observation rooted in pnimius. One can feel appreciation for the mesirus nefesh of chassidim, I suppose, but, believe me, all Jews were moser nefesh. I don't think the paragaph you wrote advocate pride for being who you are.
What cooked your goose?
What a loser you are.
Now you think that Oiz Vehodor is just a business venture.Oh, and what is Lubavitch incorporated, not a business?Tell that to the people hit on by your prfessional fundraisers aka schnorrers.Tell that to your buddy Berel the schnorrer
The Tzig is very 'proud' of his tziganeh backround
the tzig remarks that the Klauseburger visited everyone besides his bro.Your Rebbe visited nobody!
I guess if you are the self proclaimed Nosi hadeyr ess iz andersh!
Daloy lies Daloy chbsker pravda
Now you think that Oiz Vehodor is just a business venture
Rav A J Soloveitchik thinks so too.
"Rav A J Soloveitchik thinks so too."
And who died and made him expert in book publishing? That he doesn't see any maaloh in Oz Vehodor over the others (his words) just goes to show he has no clue in this area. Let me tell you - Oz Vehodor is by far superior to anything else produced heretofore. Is is also a business? Perhaps. And therefore what? This Shas is worthy of being celebrated, what a pleasure it is to use it!
One guy thinks oiz vehodor is a business venture.Wonderful.
While you are at it ask him vohs ehr halt vegen Lubavitch.......
Rabbi Elyashev looked positively annoyed. And who wouldn't be? This Rebbe intruded on him with a stupid photo op, fawned all over him with stupid compliments, and, his obsequious demeanor notwithstanding, had nothing to say...
And you people think it is important fro Chabad to have a new Rebbe at all costs? Really now?
great post tzig- i guess that being exposed to the truth of r elyashivs torah is a bit much for anyone- the rebbe is like a shy teenager with a crush,
anybody normal has hachno'o for the godol hador.
this is more than hachna'a, its rambling and begging for recognition and acceptance while the godols eyes kep wandering back to his gemara
At around the 5:00 mark Rav Elyashiv crosses his fingers.... just noticing.
Chnyock
who made him the godal hador? is he the biggest Boki? Amkun?
Thank you tzig for bringing our attention to this video clip especially. It truly gives a crystal clear picture of Rav Elyashiv in a "real life" situation. Yasher koach and tizke lemitzvas.
The points you make in this post are valid, but it seems you expect too much from today's crop of young Rebbes (and Rosh Yeshivas)who are still wet behind the ears and relative yinglach and will need a lot of time to grow into the shoes of their fathers and grandfathers.
Don't forget that in the case of Klausenburg, the old Rebbe lost his entire first family in the Holocaust. The youngsters who took over after he died were very young and from his marriage from after the war. They will need time to grow up.
Some Rebbes will fall by the wayside and others will flourish. Such is the way of "natural selection" in life and it applies to Rebbes as much as to anyone. As it says in the ונתנה תקף :
מי ינוח ומי ינוע ... מי ישפל ומי ירום
Even the Ba'al Shem Tov was not "produced" overnight! He was a melamed tinokes, a shammes of a shull and a ba'al hagolah at various points in his early life before he became known to a select few s the BESHT!
Remember that Yaakov Ovinu, Moishe Rabbeinu and Dovid Hamelech enjoyed the company of sheep, try to imagine all the smell and hassles, before they were were able to mature and assume the mantles of leaershipo of the Klal.
Manhigim don't become Gedoilim like "Bar Mitzvah" boys!
don't forget,besides being the posek hador,harav eliashev,is litera;y twice the rebbes age
chaim
this shows the greatness of the KLaus Rebbe
He went to recognize R Eliashiv's Greatness
i love the way r elyashiv is trying so hard to be nice
By extension, one would expect that Rav Elyashiv shouldn't have been Botul and reverential to Rav Kook (his Mesader Kiddushin if I am not mistaken). He was. Do you think the Baal HaTanya only went to the Gaon because he was 'afraid' of the Malshinim or because he thought Moshiach would come? True Torah personalities are able to effuse kovod to someone who is a Gadol BaTorah. True, the Lubavitcher Rebbe didn't seem to go to anyone else, although I am advised that he did visit a summer camp early on. I don't see anything which would dilute the Chassidic message in the Klausenberger's visit. Did the Lubavitcher Rebbe show too much Kovod to the Rav when he came? The Rebbe saw great eschatological significance in the meeting signalling a meeting of Dor Hashevii on both sides. Why not?
The Lub Rebbe was the gadol in the generation and he tried to hid this all the time
had the Lub Rebbe have time, he would have go to visit everyone and give kovod to everyone
Thousand of shailos and letters came to the Lub Rebbe all the time, How do u guys think about having time to visit other Rebbeim?
anon 8:46
yes he sure is the biggest boki and amkin.
we have a new poster child for retarded, the last anonymous...
Calling people names because of their positions. . .that's really refreshing and intelligent.
Chnuyock
Is there a particular Teshuva of his, that brought you to that conclusion? Please pinpoint me at least one.
I browsed thru the Kovetz Teshuvas and I wasnt zoche to see the light.I can see the greatness of his SIL Reb Chaim he has massive bekius in torah.
Hirshel,
Why permit such nonsense as the last anonymous commenter pass the sensor , it brings down the entire "rama" of discussion. Perhaps you should institute a policy that one needs to add to the conversation in at least a semi-intellectual manner (and that applies to those that disagree with you as well as those that you agree with) in order to comment. Please continue to keep us interested and entertained. Good Shabbos
as much as i sympathise with retarded people but anonymous' ramblings deminish the darga of this post. i dont think anyone repects him on tis post no matter what their opinion may be.
The real mistake of the Klauzenberg Rebbe is that he was goires another frum yid which wasn't mekabel from derech Habal-Shem and to you believing in eilu v'eilu divrie elokim chaim, in respect to this issue is losing your pride. I don't know what they talked all I know is from your blog. and you make it sound like that. Also, R' Eliashiv listens to chazors hashatz and doesn't say tehillim,Rambam and 'Chitas' in the middle like all you guys do.
I happen to think Anaonomous makes very good points, notwithstanding the ramblings of the haters on this blog. He livens debate, encourage more thinking, and strikes me as the most educated and knowledgable talmid chochom on this post. Kudos to Tzig for being brave enough to allow contrairans on this thread, it adds to his presitge.
Yeruchim,
Kindly quote what it is that anonymous said that indicates him being a Talmud Chochom or even semi-educated?! And what part of his rambling actually encouraged you to think?!
N
he crosses his fingers many times. He once said that since it's only an Inyen al pi Kabboloh he doesn't care not to do it.
Tzigelle,
The Klausengerger was bottel for R. Elyashev because R. Elyashiv is the posek hador and can be his rebbe. All this gobbledygook about mesiras nefesh, ahavas yisroel and shelichus, etc. can't disguise the fact that a persons worth is measured by how much torah he knows and R. Elyashiv at 96 עמו"ש is head and shoulders above all, and has been for decades (except for RS"Z Aurbach).
Ailimisher
Altz Gut Un Fein, but the Belzer and Gerrer Rebbes would have a bit more pride. And it's not meant to take away from his (RYSE) Gadlus.
You still wanna know the Reb Aron and the mob story????
>>Kindly quote what it is that anonymous said that indicates him being a Talmud Chochom or even semi-educated?! And what part of his rambling actually encouraged you to think?!
That's difficult to do now seeing as his erudite post was erased.
Rav Eliyashiv is not trying to intimidate but the Admor is clearly intimidated.
Prediction: His Israeli brother will win the power struggle decisively.
Hirshel
What is R'Elyashevs view on his grandfather the Leshem who is considered one of the biggest Misnagdic Balai Kabbala ?
His family name he changed from Aronov to Elyashev
"The Klausengerger was bottel for R. Elyashev because R. Elyashiv is the posek hador and can be his rebbe. All this gobbledygook about mesiras nefesh, ahavas yisroel and shelichus, etc. can't disguise the fact that a persons worth is measured by how much torah he knows and R. Elyashiv at 96 עמו"ש is head and shoulders above all, and has been for decades."
This bit of unadulterated b.s really takes the cake. WHERE does Torah state this false measure-of-a-man that you parrot ? R'Elyashiv is a tremendous talmid-chochom, and one of the leading poskim of the last 20 years, but that's it. Do you really believe that he could repeatedly speak on all levels in Torah for (cumulatively) thousands of hours, without a single sefer open in front of him ?! How could anybody semi-realistic even dream of comparing his knowledge to that of the lubavitcher rebbe ? Watch a few videos of the LR's siyummei-mesechtos (or listen to the tapes) and tell me when, in the last 500 years, was such mastery ever seen ?
I think such mastery is seen regularly in any beis medrash. Its not quantity, but quality. And the Rebbe's shiurim are not known for their quality. In fact, I am pretty sure I can do better than the rebbe in pretty much any sugya in nighleh.
I love how someone with a goyishe name critices ehrliche yiddin for respecting Rav Elyashuv--calls it "parroting"--and then does the exact same thing when writing about his rebbe. Does no one else see how Steve offers nothing of significance with his ramblings--that he is, in fact, doing a disservice by going way over the logical truthful end?
the fact that someone uses a "goyishe" name on a blog means very little.
If a Yid chooses a Goyishe name, it means a lot. We all know the what Chazal say about the Yiddin in Mitzrayim.
>>How could anybody semi-realistic even dream of comparing his knowledge to that of the lubavitcher rebbe ? Watch a few videos of the LR's siyummei-mesechtos (or listen to the tapes) and tell me when, in the last 500 years, was such mastery ever seen ?
I can. I have little doubt in my mind that I cannot produce the same quality Torah the Rebbe produced in Nighleh. And I don't mean this out of disrespect. Second, I was told that the Rebbe's editors had to correct the Rebbe's misquotes. I know this is controversial, but several people told me this. Finally, "Steve" (r"l!), go by quantity, not quality.
Tzig, any reason my important comment was not posted?
it probably wasn't important after all...
Shmeel
Your jealousy and sinah to the Lub Rebbe is blinding you and making u a fool
Only looking at your posts, anyone can see that they come from an am haa'retz,and MSR (I WAS TOLD...)
I have no reason to be jealous of the Lub Rebbe. All I was saying was that I can produce Torah of the same stature as the Rebbe did. I wrote this not out of disrespect but as a matter of fact.
I wrote this in response to an individual who uses a goyish name, r"l, who employed enormous hyperbole about one individuals as he downgraded the stature of a gadol b'yisroel. Naturally, you did not cry foul then, either. I would say that the only reason you decided to write the motzi shem rah you wrote about me is because you are obviously jealous of me. After all, I did not write nasty things about the Rebbe; you wrote nasty things about me. Second, I was told this by many people, it is documented in print and in the blogosphere.
Regardless of the smart alec handle you are using, it is clear you are a sad man who must accuse others of blinding hatred when they are writing facts. There is nothing objectively foolish about what I wrote. But your heated response and in ability to write with regards does say a lot about your intellectual abilities and your decency as a human being.
Feel free to respond, but, please, act like a mentsch.
Satmar,
I fail to see hatred and jealousy in Shmeel's remarks. He may be confident, and that confidency may be justified, but sinah? Jealousy? I don't see it. I do sinah in your posts, though. You should look into that.
shmeel
thisis your quote
"Second, I was told that the Rebbe's editors had to correct the Rebbe's misquotes. I know this is controversial, but several people told me this"
it is easy for u to follow these ppl who told u this about a Rebbe
There were, are, many ppl jealous about the accomplishments of the Lub Rebbe, who brought more ppl to the Torah than anyone else
This is a result of jealousy and sinah (to make these comments agianst a Gadol whithout knowing 100% and u consider them as a fact)
this shows your low level , who needs to say something like this in a public forum just to knock down a TC.
is this is not MSR, this itself shows your amaartzus
May H Have rachamanus on u
Dovid
r u shmeel 2?
>>it is easy for u to follow these ppl who told u this about a Rebbe
No it is not. I do it with great pain. I wrote that I was told the Rebbe misquoted. This is also documented in books which I have seen. I don't blindly follow what they say, I qualify it--as you impliedly noted. According to your own statements, then, it is clear that I have no sinah or (even more ridiculous) jealously of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. You clearly know nothing about the halochos of MSR concerning a talmid chochom as you are calling me an am hooaretz!
Second, if you want to know about a case of MSR, look up the sicha which is quoted by Tzig where the rebbe said MSR about the Chazon Ish after the latter was niftar (that he did not learn the pnimius of Torah).
For the record, I do not know of a single person who is "jealous" of the Rebbe. Not one. I certainly have nothing to be jealous of. This aveirah of jealousy is commontly attributed to those who don't regard the Rebbe as the greatest man in the past 500 years--like the fellow with the goyish name wrote. Unfortunately, it is a completely baseless remark and, in fact, once again, is motzi shem rah. The concept of sinah against the rebbe also has no FACTUAL basis. Seeing as I qualified my statement, I don't see how this can be construed as sinah. Its merely pointing out a flaw in a statement made by someone with a goyishe name. Once again, you failed to bring up the fact that he dismissed a gadol b'yisroel offhand. Clearly, you would not attribute that to sinah or jealousy. And that is because there is no sinah of jealousy here.
I also don't know what you mean by your statement that the Rebbe brought more people to Torah than anyone else. I think such comparisons are ridiculous. And, again, I go by quality, not quantity. I do not believe the rebbe--as far as quality is concerned--was as successful as you make him out to be. Not in his lifetime.
>>this shows your low level , who needs to say something like this in a public forum just to knock down a TC.
Again, this is just an incredibly mean comment. I don't think it makes sense in light of the fact that you only go beserk over one tc as opposed to any other. Clearly, from the way you write to me, you don't really care about right or wrong.
>>is this is not MSR, this itself shows your amaartzus
May H Have rachamanus on u
The only MSR here is yours and the rebbe's about the CI. Not me. I did nothing wrong. I am sorry, but you need to brush up on facts and halacha before you thrown such incredibly disgusting comments out like that toward me.
"the Rebbe's editors"
The Rebbe didn't have editors, the Rebbe himself was the editor. He had transcript writers. So much for your impeccable sources.
My sources are out there--whether you wish to acknowledge them or not. And I apologize, I met his transcript writers. Happy now?
Look I am just stating what I read in response to a post written by someone with a goyish name. It was not intended to actually demean the Rebbe. I am fully aware that the position of those who have written these books is disputed.
מען האט מיר איבערגעזעצט דאס אויבן געשריבענע ( אמאל וויל זיך זען אז ס'איז פאראן א פארבעסערונג אין דעם צושטאנד פון אהבת ישראל אויף אייער זייטל. ) אמאל רעד איך זיך איין אז פאראן יא א שיפור און אמאל ווייס איך ניט צי זאל איך לאכן צי וויינען. אלץ א למוד זכות אויף "סטיוו" - מסתמא ער האט ניט געוואלט דערנידעריקן חלילה דעם כבוד פון דעם גרויסן גאון הרב אלישיב שליט"א, נאר צו זאגן אז דעם רבס תורה איז ניט געדרוקט געווארן אין א גרויסן פארנעם. זיינע תשובות זיינען מערסטנס נאר מותר אדער אסור און ער אליין באטאנט אז אויף קובץ התשובות .
נעמט ער ניט קיין פאראנטווארטלעכקייט.
איך האב געהאט עטלעכע גליקלעכע געלעגנהייטן צו באזוכן דעם רב ביי אים אין שטוב און דורכריידן הלכישע ענינים העומדים על הפרק. מען זעט א אידן וואס האט גאנץ לעבן לאנג געזעסן טאג און נאכט על התורה. ער האט געהאט שימוש אין מראות, גיטין און דאס גלייכן ביי דעם גאון ר' הירש פסח פראנק זצ"ל און איז געווארן אן אדרעס צו וועלכן מערערע ווענדן צו באקומען א פסק הלכה.
אבער אזוי ווי עס וואלט קיינעם איז ניט אין געדאנק אריין צו פארצווייפלן דאס למדות פון דעם גאון הרב אלישיב, וואלט קיין נארמאלער מענטש ניט געשריבן מיט אזעלכענע נארישקייטן מכוח דעם גאון און צדיק דעם ליובאוויטשער רבין זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה. מען האט שוין עטלעכע מאל אויף דעם בלאג דערמאנט די ריי גדולי ישראל וועלכע זיינען אין גרויסער התפעלות פון דעם חב"ד רבינס גאונות און האבן אים פאררעכנט אלץ שר התורה. צי ר' שמואל אדער נאך אימיצער מיינט אז ער פארשטייט אין קוואליטעט פון לערנען בעסער ווי הרב יאלעס ( זיין התפעלות האב איך געהערט פערזענלעך פון אים און ניט איין מאל) אעדר פון הרב פינחס מנחם פון גער אדער הרב הירשפרונג? הרב הירשפרונג האט מיר דעדרציילט פון זיין ערשטן באזוך צום רבין. וועגן דעם ערשטן פארברענגן און דער ערשטער יחדות. ער האט מיר געזאגט אז ביז היינט האט ער ניט געזען אן אמתן בקי אין אלע חדרי התורה. ( און דאס קומט פון א מענטשן וואס איז פאררעכנט אין אלע קרייזן ווי א וועלטס בקי) מייו טאטע פלעגט קומען ספעציעל קיין ניו יארק צו זיין ביי א פארברענגעניש און ער פלעגט זיצן הינטן נעבן הרב יאלעס און הרב הירשפרונג און הרב פיקארסקי און אין מיטן א טיפער "בבלי-ירושלמי לשיטתם" שיחה פלעגן זיי אלע שיער ניט איינהאלטן פון התפעלות.און דא רעד זיך וועגן פיר אידן וואס אלע זיינען ניט ליובאוויטשער חסידים און אלע געווארן געשווארענע אנהענגערס פון דעם ליובאוויטשער רבין נאר צוליב זיין גרויסקייט אין תורה, צדקות און חכמה.
איך האב תמיד געהאט א שייכות מיט די חברה וואס האבן צוגעגרייט צום דרוק די שיחות. איינער וואס וויס כאטש א קליין ביסל פון דעם מציאות( און דערמיט בארעכט איך ר' שמואל ווייל ער פשוט ניט באקאנט ) וואלט קיינמאל ניט פארגעשלאגן אזא הבא אמינא אז די חברה פלעגןפ ארריכטן דעם רבין. דער רבי פלעגט אין די ערשטע יארן מדריך זיין די חברה מניחים וויזוי צו איבערמאכן א גערעדטן סטיל אויף א געשריבענעם ( ווייל עולם הדיבור און עולם הכתב זיינען צוויי באזונדערע וועלטן)
בכל אופן - מ'קען און מ'דארף דערהייבן דעם כבוד פון הרב אלישיב אבער אז אינגעלעך ריידן מיט זילזול וועגן דעם קוואליטעט פון לערנען פון ת"ח ווען אנדערע גדולים זיינען פול מיט התפעלות, מאכן זיי חוזק פון זיך אליין
מיט בעסטע וואונטשן
יוסף דוב.
Shmeel
u r a little brainwashed amaharetz
,and this a big complimet , lechaf zechus
you say " I am fully aware that the position of those who have written these books is disputed"
but u don't care about the truth
you just judge with 0 basis (your sources are blogs,lol,amybe Tzemach's blos and the Sorbonne,lol)against a Gadol
your comments against a Gadol r disgustings and again your daas is less than 0 and please, don't even mention the Lub Rebbe again
Go to learn ,blogs r not good for u
rachamanus on u
Can someone find me a source for Rav Hirschprung's comment about the Rebbe? Outside of Chabad? Thank you.
With all due respect to R' Yosef Dov, and I am assuming you are well intended--Rav Hirschprung and the Pnei Menachem held very highly of certain other talmdei chachomim who have been vilified not only by Chabad but, in one case, by the Rebbe, too. According to your statement, did Chabad make put themselves down? Did the Rebbe? I also want to point out that you are melamed zechus someone with a goyish name but not me--a reprehensible act. You are inconsistent and demand respect where you and your group have consistently denied to give to others. That's hypocritical.
Unfortunately, Satmar seems to suffers from this kind of intellectual sloth and narrowmindedness.
Satmar,
You obviously don't even know what lekav zechua. I have never seen someone encapsulate himself so perfectly, though: a little brainwashed am hooretz. That is EXACTLY what you are. Now go learn to read and write you little creep.
Satmar,
Look at yourself for a change. You are full of hate, you are full of jealously, and you are full of insults. All you have is nastiness. You are a disgusting menuval.
Satmar,
My sources include books, too. Please learn how to READ.
הרוצה בעילום שמו האט געבעטן א מקור פאר דעם גאון ר' פנחס הירשפרונג אויסערגעוויינטלעכן כבוד פאר דעם רבינס לומדות - פאראן צענדליקע ווידעא קאסעטעס וואו מ'זעט ווי א איד א טיפער זקן שלעפט זיך קיין ניו יארק און זיטזט שעהן נאכאנאנד מיט גרויס ביטול און טרינקט מיט דורשט יעדעס ווארט פון רבין. מען האט אויכעט בכתב וואס ער האט געשריבן מכוח דעם רבין וואו ער רופט דעם רבין שר התורה פון אונזער דור. ווען איך האב דאס וויסן ווי אזוי עס אריבערצושיקן וואלט איך עס געטאן..
anonymouus=shmeel
u r an another shmeel 2,shmeel 3
shmeel4?
go to learn
Satmar C:
I am not Shmeel, and I think everyone here demosntrated that (1) you are just a troll; (2) you have nothing positive to add and (3) if anyone ought you go learn it is you. While Shmeel was learning, you were still typing you worthless hypocrite.
R' Yosef Dov,
I am not sure if he referred to the rebbe as THE sar Hatorah of the Dor. certainly, he held others in great esteem as did the Pnei Menachem. I doubt either regarded the rebbe as preeminent. If you have evidence to document the contrary, kindly provide the same. Otherwise, I think there is little logical reason to get as hyperbolic as Steve about the rebbe's greatness. There were other great bokiim in the earlier generations, and based on my observations and familiarity with seforim from gedolim of the earlier generation, I would not assume the rebbe's preeminence as granted--unless I am a chussid of his, which, for reasons I think obvious, I am not.
anonynous
everyone knows that ur shmeel
just look the beginings of your postings and shmeel's post
both says
Satmar,
"with the comma,
lol lol
lol
please, tzig, delete this anti Rebbe from here
Satmar,
Wow. What logic. And I'd rather be called an anti-Rebbe than what you are--a sonei Yisroel and a sonei Hashem.
shmeel
I love u
u r a tinok shenishbo
it is not your fault
u r just another korban
H should help u
דעם גוטן פריינד דעם "אנאנימוס
איך שפיר אן אמתן אינטערעס אין דיין פרעגן און דערפאר ענטפער איך אויף דיין פראגע.
איינער פון צענדליקע ביישפילן:
דאס חשובע ספר הדרת פנים זקן - גילוח הזקן לאור ההלכה דורך הרב משה ניסן ווינער האט זוכה געוועזן צו באקומען
הסכומות פון א ריי גדולי ישראל. דא זיינן א טייל אין דעם אריגענעלעם סדר:
הגאונים הגדולים בעל מנחת יצחק הר' גדלי' שאר, הרב פינחס מנחם אלטר, הרב שניאור קאטלער, הרב אמ"מ שאך, הרב חיים קנייבסקי, בעל שבט הלוי, הרב משה שטערן, הרב מנשה הקטן, הרב גדלי' פעלדער, הרב בנימין זילבער און מער. ער האט אויכעט געבעטן אן הסכמה פון הרב הירשפרונג און האט אים באוויזן אלע הסכמות און אויך א בריוו פון דעם ליובאוויטער רבין. דאס איז א ציטאטע פון דער הסכמה פון הרב הירשפרונג.
יסלח לי כבודו שלא השבתיו על אתר כי עתותי אינם בידי וגם זה כתבתי רק בקיצור. ואינני יודע מה צריך להסכמתי הלא יש בידו הסכמת כ"ק אדמו"ר הגה"ק רבן של ישראל מליובאוויטש שליט"א ומי יבוא אחרי המלך ...באע"ח יום א' פרשת עקב תשל"ז לפ"ק
איך מיין אז עס פאדער זיך ניט קיינע קאמענטארן
אייער י.ד. ,
באמת האף איך אז זאל שוין קומען א סוף צו א דיסקוסיע איבער א זאך וואס איז קלאר פאר דעם וואס זוכט אמת. איך דאן, אויב עס איז נייטיק צו שיקן די געדרוקטע אויסערגעווינטלעכע אויסדריקן אויף דעם ליובאוויטער רבין פון הרב ר' משה פיינשטיין זצ"ל , הרב ר' שלמה זלמן אויערבאך זצ"ל דעם מנחת יצחק זצ"ל. זאל איינער אפשר געפינען אין דרוק ענלעכע ווערטער מיט וועלכע די דאזיקע ריזן האבן אויסגעדריקט וועגן נאך אימיצן. ( דערמיט וואס אין עטלעכע פאלן האבן זיי געפסקנט אנדערש - זו דרכה של תורה )
B"H
Why does someone whose students ability to learn Torah is bought with money for letting Eretz Yisroel to be devided deserve any honor no matter how much Torah he presumably knows?
PS.
See:
http://www.truepeace.org/thecry/contents.htm
Satmar C,
Your comments are laced with so much hatred and sinas Hashem, it frightens me. Please look into and do teshuva.
Shmeel,
I am in awe of your middos. You handled a rasha with the patience of Hillel.
R' Yosef Dov,
I will look into that haskama, but Rav Hirshprung may have used those terms on someone whom he thought to be truly great, though not neccessarily preeminent. How did he write about others? I am not familar with his haskamos. As far as Rav Shlomo Zalman and R' Moshe are concerns, we all know how he wrote and talked about certain talmidei chachomim who are vilified by Chabad entire--even, in one instance, by the Rebbe himself. I am not so sure that enthusiastic comments can be taken seriously by one Rav Hirschprung--regardless of his greatness--to prove a point.
Wow, Shmeel, you are a true tzadik. I would never have tolerated SatmarC's antics with the nobility and humility you demonstrated. I am in awe.
I would like to make some points about your comments
I perfectly understand why the Klausebuger Rebbe would be in awe in the presence of the Totah giants in Eretz Yisroel.
While living in Boro Park he is a ROSH LESHIOLIM, not having much contact with real Gedoleh Torah.
I also agree with you that Oiz V'Dodor is just a business venture
In addition if his brothers visit was fanning the flames of hatred, then his visit to Eretz Yisroel was also one of fanning the flames of hatred.
None of the Chassidim from the brother of Eretz Yisroel were punished for going to visit the brother of New York. Conversely, in New York, 14 people were ejected in Boro Park, Williamsburgh, and Monsey for visiting the Brother from Eretz Yisroel. Many of these people in their 40s and 50s, and some of them major Askonim for the Klausenburger organizations.
Ariel,
Please write your comment again, in English please. It makes no sense.
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