Wednesday, December 24, 2008

Lakewood Rumbling


LINK TO BLOG DELETED DUE TO RARE הרהור תשובה

I did not know there was so much animosity to the leadership in Lakewood. I promised the guy I'd help him by getting the word out, although I don't wish to be a clearing house for Loshon HoRah. The picture of Reb Malkiel looks nice, an emese hadras ponim. What can I say, it's sad to see all the fighting in every kreiz.

By the way, the letters from Rav Hutner to the Rebbe from 5728 will be up shortly, iy"h.

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am a lot more interested in those letters than the presentation of misinformation that give a false impression about Lakewood.

BTW, is the story about Rav Hutner in The Making of A Gadol true? If so, it would mean that Rav Hutner later changed his mind. . .

shmuel grainom said...

you are NOTHING but a clearinghouse for loshon hora!

Hirshel Tzig said...

1) change your name here, don't embarrass Reb Graynem.

2) good thing I don't care what you say

Anonymous said...

would your father have helped Barry G.in his 1950 blog?
so you did become a lubab to be a clearing house for lushen hora
what a medriga

reb shmuel grainom said...

its probably not in a sich but the gemora sais
המבזה תלמיד חכם נקרא אפיקורס

Dov said...

Tzig is a good man, although some of his commenters have written things which are clearly unacceptable.

Hirshel Tzig said...

so am I the Apikores here or the Baal HaBlog?

Anonymous said...

Tzig did not say ANYTHINg about a talmid chochom.

Albert, however, did. But he does not care. He is a professional hater.

Anonymous said...

which Talmid Chochem is he being Mevazeh here, Aron?

Hirshel Tzig said...

why thank you, Dov!

shmuel grainom said...

you are both apikorsim
אגב, להוי ידוע שראשי הישיבה שליט"א מלייקוואוד אינם חסידים אבל שותים בצמא את דברי רבוה"ק תלמידי אור שבעת הימים ותלמידיו וממשיכי דרכו

Hirshel Tzig said...

סתם, מצד סקרנות, תודיע לנו מאיזה רבותינו הם שותים בצמא? מאיזה חדר
תודה

shmuel grainom said...

paylishe

din said...

Why would anyone want to help someone elses "machloikes"?
Only a mushchas.

Hirshel Tzig said...

well, let's see now:

a certain Rosh Yeshiva in Bnei Beraq started a "Velt's Machlokes" and thousands, including many Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivah, came to help him....

Hirshel Tzig said...

.... But if you'd like I can stop this here, now.

Everybody ignore this post.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Mr. "Circus Tent" change your profile name and I'll let you post here. Otherwise...

Shmuel Grainom said...

changed it, sorry it was a mistake...lol

Shmuel Grainom said...

who are you comparing yourself tyo? roshei yeshiva?!

din said...

Lubavitchers are such mushchosim.
This mushchos Tzig, to find favor in Lubavitchers eyes jumped on the bandwagon of an old fight in Chaim Berlin, posting one sided nonsense.
Other times he jumped onto the bandwagon of a one sided machloikes with a rov who published a biography.
Now this.
Tzei tomei!
We are lucky that this low life left and joined Lubavitch.Now it's their problem

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Come on. Why get involved with this narishkeit? A couple fakewooders don't like the rosh yeshiva and are putting up a clearinghouse of info for people who aren't in the loop. I don't like the place either, so I don't learn there they have no right to complain. Poshit.

Hirshel Tzig said...

ok, complaints accepted. No more of this here.

Shmuel Grainom said...

why not?

Hirshel Tzig said...

because I feel bad. RMK never hurt me or my family, so why should I?

LkwdGuy said...

I did not know there was so much animosity to the leadership there.

What does this mean? You thought there was not even one person in Lakewood that disliked the RY?

Because as you well know all it takes is one person with even very limited intelligence to start a blog.

Shmuel Grainom said...

wow a hirhur teshuva! grab it while its hot, remove the post and the link.

Hirshel Tzig said...

LkwdGuy:

OUCH!!!!

Shmuel Grainom said...

נו, עזות דקדושה. take it down, the batlonim who post here are coming home now from fist seder...

snag bashers said...

leave it up!

kotler must be stopped!

kudos to the tzig for being at the forfront of our pressing issues!

have an easy taanis, and a frelichen shavuos.

Arthur said...

"Tzig did not say ANYTHINg about a talmid chochom.

"Albert, however, did. But he does not care. He is a professional hater."
The vance iz veiter arois gekruchen fun bet gevant" upper case letters and all.
One thing,amongst many others,about Rav Ferd shlita that I don't understand.Maila I who am an "am hooretz" and a "professional hater" understandably spend so much time posting on the blogs.But Ferd,you're a "ben Torah" and a "Talmid chochum" to the point that you're smarter in lomdus Hainiglah vehanister baTorah and the history of Chabad, then all the posters on this blog site, as you claim.When do you get a chance Rav FERD (see I know how to use upper case too) to acquire all this great knowledge of yours? Certainly not while posting your profound and geoinshe missives on this blog site or any other?

Shmuel Grainom said...

איי די האסט נישט קיין גבורת אנשים..... דער רבי שעפט זיכער נישט קיין נאכעס

Dovid k said...

Shmuel Grainom
I'm impressed that as a Lakewood guy you know about R'Grainom.
Interesting to note that there is a rov in Flatbush who's name is Grainom, Rabbi Grainom Lazevnik shlit'a.Not a Lubavitcher, but taught in the Lubavitcher yeshiva.
Tzig.
Why are you getting into machlokes?
We've got out own peckel, so let's not go there.

Hirshel Tzig said...

וואס הייסט? דיר געפעלט נישט די תשובה וואס איך האב געטוהן
?

Pesacya weichbrat said...

You are a wimp. let the people speak their minds!
EVery shtus in the world is allowed here, but no. THIS you take down.

See? You are another jerk intimidated by the Kotler clan.

http://lakewoodscoop.blogspot.com/

Be a man, and allow my comment through. I'll take the heat for it.

My name os Pesacya weichbrat, and I can be reached on my cell phone at 732-600-1278

I have nothing to hide.

DO IT LMAN HAKLAL

Shmuel Grainom said...

תשובה געטוהן?? די "מאמר" שטייט נאך.
נעם אס אראפ

Shmuel Grainom said...

חצי שיעור הייסט נישט געגעסין יום כיפור

Hirshel Tzig said...

וואס שטייט סך הכל אין די "מאמר?" קיין לשון הרה שטייט נישט

Shmuel Grainom said...

למען הטיפש פסחיה מעק עס אויס
מדארפ אמאל ראטעווין א מענטש פון זיך

snag said...

I missed the post, but I enjoyed seeing the words "LINK TO BLOG DELETED DUE TO RARE הרהור תשובה".

Geshmak! Yasher keyach Hirshel.

Now what are you posting for nuttel nacht (attention Snags, you can learn anyway)?

yc said...

Hirshel
You are getting involved into a machloikes that is not yours.
When you did it with CB you took a lot of heat.This will be a hundred times hotter.
צו וואס פעלט עס דיר אויס. אריין מישען אין א ריב לא לו
?

Hirshel Tzig said...

ניטל not Nuttel

I guess I'll read ספורי צדיקים and play chess, כמנהג רבינו וחסידי חב"ד שיחיו

Hirshel Tzig said...

ווער איז דער פתחי' כאראקטער?

uncle sam said...

GREAT STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS BLOG ROCKS!

Anonymous said...

Tzig when someone pointed out that you have lots of Lashon Horah here your reply was: "good thing I don't care what you say".
I was just wondering, do you care that its an Aveira? Or is that just for the greese balls?

Hirshel Tzig said...

what I meant was that I don't care what he says, it's simply NOT TRUE. My blog is not filled with LH. Aveiros are for greaseballs, mitzvos are for yidden.

Monsey Man said...

Hirshel,

You hav time for this but no time to post of the tremendous Kiddush Hashem in Monsey this past Sunday evening???

Hirshel Tzig said...

remind me, please.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

You thought there was not even one person in Lakewood that disliked the RY?
Reb yid. You're a lakewood guy, maybe you can answer this: I know many people who are or were in lakewood who hate the Roshei yeshiva and/or the place itself. What allowed it to gain the hold it has on the frum community? WHy can't people opt out for a yeshiva they like better or *gasp* go to college? I realize I sound like a new bt but I grew up frum.

Monsey Man said...

Nu, what, I should post the link to COL?

PS - what's wrong with the nittel post, it had a dirty word or something?

Anonymous said...

>>One thing,amongst many others,about Rav Ferd shlita that I don't understand.Maila I who am an "am hooretz" and a "professional hater" understandably spend so much time posting on the blogs.But Ferd,you're a "ben Torah" and a "Talmid chochum" to the point that you're smarter in lomdus Hainiglah vehanister baTorah and the history of Chabad, then all the posters on this blog site, as you claim.When do you get a chance Rav FERD (see I know how to use upper case too) to acquire all this great knowledge of yours? Certainly not while posting your profound and geoinshe missives on this blog site or any other?

Nebach, the professional hater has nothing to say for himself!

schneur said...

What is the nature of Rav Kotler's leadership. Is he regarded as the final Hoge daoth there ? is he regarded as the biggest lamdan there ? Is he the exceutive authority there / I am certiaan he ihis not the Halachic authority.
So what is the nature of the problem. I suppose the yeshiva is his through baalus and yerusha ?

Anonymous said...

He's more like the nosi hador.

LkwdGuy said...

schneur, there is no question whatsoever about bailus of the yeshiva. Any disagreements that may exist would be regarding the role that the yeshiva plays viz a viz the lives of those that are, in the shprach of Rav Shneur ZT"L, choneh soviv l'mishkan. As far as RMK being the final da'as, any statement that is sent out by the yeshiva is signed by all four RY as well as the mashgiach, with RMK's name usually front and center followed by the remaining four below and across on one line, the mashgiach's name is last on that line.

lubab=newChristians said...

This "nittel" nonsense brings out Lubavitchs craziness into full bloom.
Why would one not be allowed to learn on "nittel"?
The Chasam Sofer points out that historically it was a dangerous time for Jews, therefore they did not congregate and go to yeshivas so as not to become targets.
Lubavitchs' reason? Yoshkeh takes the sparks of Torah to his side.
What a nonsensical untorahdik notion!
We are taught that Torah saves, yet they preach that somehow Satan and his minnions can latch on to our Torah.And when, on the 25 of Dec?So suddenly we follow the non jewish calendar? Besides for the fact thast the gentiles themselves have a couple of dates for the "birth" the whole thing is historically not true.Nobody knows when he was born, it's b.s.
But a fitting custom for Lubavitch, which unfortunately has become a one way bridge between Judaism and Christianity.
Need I point out that as the Christians,Lubavitchers also believe in a "second coming", they also believe in a kind of "trinity" where the Rebbe is The Creator "clothed in a body"!!???
Can you believe that a group that purports to being Jewish actually believes in such garbage???
Where is the next stop on this loony train?
Shabbos on monday????
Who knows
Already their self made festival ya't kislev supersedes Jewish holydays, their Tanya is on equal standing with the holy Bible and their "eternal" leader is much greater than Moses!
Where have we been allowing this to happen???

Dvo BEr said...

>>Yoshkeh takes the sparks of Torah to his side.

This is NOT an idea which belongs exclusively to Chabad. MANY Chassidim feel that way. The only difference between all other Chassidim and Chabad is that everyone else believes that putting tefillin on a goy also gives kochos to the sitra achar.

And I would not make such broad statements about all Lubavitchers. Most believe the rebbe was the greatest of their nation (so?) and MOST of those do not look at the Rebbe as their creator or as God. You really have to know the facts here.

People like Tzig are perfeclty fine Jews with some strong feelings about Chassidus and their rebbe because that is what they were taught. You have to analyze their views a lot more carefully before you call them Christians!

schneur said...

Among Chassidim Nittel was a widespread custom and had the bechina of Minhog Israel. Marc Shapiro wrote a fine article about Nittel several years ago in the Journal of Jewish Philosphy etc. Also Mr. Israel Mesinger a Satmarer chasid authored a wonderful book called Meoros Nittel about 10 years ago. After selling many copies it was pulled.

Arthur said...

If memory serves me correctly it was said that a Litveshe Godol used to tear bathroom tissue for the Shabosim of the entire year on nittel nacht.I cannot vouch for the veracity of this story and the name of the godol that supposedly did this escapes me.

lubab=newChristians said...

dov ber
How do you understand Rabbi Cunins words that "now we''ll show them that the Rebbe runs the world"

Does that sound Jewish?
There are many more from the same place that this came.

Just curious why you think the Tzig is a "fine Jew"
Any proof, cuz he does not come across as very fine over here

SatmartTC said...

lub=newc hey!

do you want to change the subject of discussion?
this thread is about your role models gedolim

Anonymous said...

Tzig can you please expain us why this is not Lashon Horah?

Hirshel Tzig said...

it's now been 5 hours and not a word of protest has been heard from all those who were sooooo incensed at Arthur for what he said. "Lubab=New Christians" laughed at a minhag yisroel for many generations, laughed at Gedolei Yisroel for whom even Rabbonim he considers to be his luminaries had the greatest of respect for, and condemned thousands of yidden as well.

Yet, for some reason, they're quite content eating their latkes and apple sauce, and see nothing wrong with what he wrote.

Can you say hypocrisy?

HELLLLOOOOOOOO???????

Anonymous said...

satmertc was moche!

Hirshel Tzig said...

DovBer's comments were nice, I grant him that, but still. I expected more.

Anonymous said...

Hysterical said: ""nittel" nonsense ... craziness into full bloom ... What a nonsensical untorahdik notion! ... it's b.s. ... a fitting custom for ... which unfortunately has become a one way bridge between Judaism and Christianity"

Okay. Well, R. Hersh Meilech of Dinov writes that we don't learn on Nittel Nacht so as not to add sustenance to Sitra Achara. Now go to his Kever and beg מחילה ע"פ דין שו"ע. You are also ע"פ דין בנידוי.

We could tell you've been learning on Nittel Nacht, but why display your wide-ranging עם-הארצות?! Why embarrass yourself? You could have politely suggested that you are a וויסטער עם-הארץ and that therefore you have a few questions which (might) need answers. Instead of living your life ע"פ הסט"א.

Now to your questions:

>Why would one not be allowed to learn on "nittel"?

For the same reason that we don't learn on תשעה באב. The same reason that when an אבל learns, he enters the גדר of ולרשע אמר אלקים מה לך לספר חוקי.

>The Chasam Sofer points out that historically it was a dangerous time for Jews, therefore they did not congregate and go to yeshivas so as not to become targets.

Most Minhagim reach us without a reason. The Minhag is to play with a top and with cards on Chanuka. We don't know why. Then Acharonim come along and offer suggestions as to why it may have started. It wasn't till a hundred years ago that someone suggested that the top and cards were played by the Jews during the מעשה חנוכה. Acharonim before him suggested that it's על דרך מה שמחלקים אגוזים ברגל. Who is right? We don't know. Pick the one you like. Similarly, the Chasam Sofer merely presented an idea as to how the Minhag started.

>Lubavitchs' reason? Yoshkeh takes the sparks of Torah to his side.

It's in fact the traditional reason. It is the reason advanced by the מהרש"א, R. Yonoson Eibechutz, and R. Hersh Meilech of Dinov. The Chasam Sofer merely offered another explanation.

>What a nonsensical untorahdik notion!

Watch your mouth.

>We are taught that Torah saves, yet they preach that somehow Satan and his minnions can latch on to our Torah.

The Gemara already offers the possibility of נעשה לו סם המות. Where do you think Acher's Torah came from/went to? Never mind that the Zohar repeats the idea that your deeds/study could derive/go to the Sitra Achara every ten pages. All of the Mekubalim used to be מזהיר to learn Torah בטהרה, or else... There's nothing new here if you'd just do a bit of studying.

>And when, on the 25 of Dec?So suddenly we follow the non jewish calendar? Besides for the fact thast the gentiles themselves have a couple of dates for the "birth" the whole thing is historically not true.Nobody knows when he was born, it's b.s.

The original source the Rokeach (מגדולי הראשונים) refers to the ליל התקופה. The Tekufa follows the solar and not the Jewish, lunar calendar. Jewish sources state that Oso Ha'ish was born b'lel haTekufa. It is explained that there isn't a problem with lel hatekufa because it's the birthday of Oso Ha'Ish. Rather, it's the opposite, Oso Ha'Ish could only be born at such an hour which is intrinsically a time when the Kelipos are strong. It is forbidden to drink the water of the moment of the Tekufa. There are many times when Kabbala warns that the Kelipos are strong. Any day on which a bad thing occured, indicates that it has a problem.

>But a fitting custom for Lubavitch, which unfortunately has become a one way bridge between Judaism and Christianity.

That's a very silly Sevara. If anything those who learn share a connection with the Kelipa of Christianity. But all Chassidim are unified with Chabad on this.

>Need I point out that as the Christians, Lubavitchers also believe in a "second coming"

So did R. Nochum of Shtefenesht. So do most Jews.

>they also believe in a kind of "trinity" where the Rebbe is The Creator "clothed in a body"!!???

No one thinks the Rebbe is the creator. Also, the Baal HaTanya thought that G-d is clothed in Torah. So do all Chassidim. And many other Jews. Oh, and then some think the Mekubalim have some kind of Trinity where G-d is clothed in Sefiros...

>Can you believe that a group that purports to being Jewish actually believes in such garbage???

Rachaman Litzlan.

>Where is the next stop on this loony train?
Shabbos on monday????
Who knows

Probably those who learn on Nittel Nacht first.

>Already their self made festival ya't kislev supersedes Jewish holydays,

sure, and the Rambam made his own holidays, and every community had its own day of celebration for its salvation from whatever threatened it...

>their Tanya is on equal standing with the holy Bible

So what? You guys think the Ramchal could write his own Tehilim and Zohar etc.

>and their "eternal" leader is much greater than Moses!

So did the Ramchal... Moshiach is supposed to be greater than Moshe in most respects.

>Where have we been allowing this to happen???

I'll remind you. You were busy learning on Nittel Nacht!

Hirshel Tzig said...

BRAVO!!!!

Anonymous said...

Nitel nacht is a old Ashkenazic minhag, who gave the right for the new yeshiva world to change a minhag,Al Titosh Toras Imecho? I tought the reason for Hisnagdus againdst chassidus was for changing minhogei Yisroel

shiurei shabbos said...

"For the same reason that we don't learn on תשעה באב. The same reason that when an אבל learns, he enters the גדר of ולרשע אמר אלקים מה לך לספר חוקי."

'scuse me??
An ovel may not learn Torah because it is "mesameach" same thing for tisho b'ov.What kool aid are you drinking?
And why weren't the tanoim and amoroim 'mesaken' this choshuveh takono??
I'd love to see the Maharsh'o you "quoted" btw.I have a good hunch it does not exist.

Dov Ber said...

Tzig,

If lubavi+christians said the things Arthur said, I would have said a lot more.

Anonymous said...

what is the story with r' hutner in making of a gadol

bpunbound said...

lub=chr. is obviously the same unlearned, uncoouth A"H that posted in a previous thread....why do we have to waste time responding.

However, for those that may still not get the concept of nittel, I give you the words of R' Moshe Wolfson:

Azoi Vi Mir Lernt in Di Baadrum!

lubab =nc said...

"However, for those that may still not get the concept of nittel, I give you the words of R' Moshe Wolfson:

Azoi Vi Mir Lernt in Di Baadrum!"

Bpunbound!
Wow,
Now I really think this minhag has a basis! *sarcasm*
Can't you guys grow up?
I'm telling you right now that R'Moshe Wolfson is a very fine, ehrlicher yid.
But if you need this quote to "prove" nittel, than you are totally lost.
When I challenged "nittel" it was on the nonsensical notion that somehow learning on the the day that (we don't even know when)Yoshkeh was born, strengthens him.If so we can't learn on the day Hitler was born, Amolek was born, Snags were born.It's nonsensical.
The true reason for nittel was the danger that is no longer applicable.
But go ahead and right "sho chamishis".Do you think for a second that I thought I'd convince Lubab.I did not.

Hirshel Tzig said...

I guess a snag shnook knows better than everybody else....

lubab=nc said...

Tziggy
Did I stop you writing "sh'o chamishis"
Did I stop you putting a pic of the Rebbe underneath your sons pillow by the bris (noch a minhag muvhak,eh)
Did I stop you "asking" the Rebbe in the igros?
These are just the "mild" meshugassen.
Than gd you are not a shoichet .I don't know if your shechitta would not be neveila

Hirshel Tzig said...

and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for allowing us these practices. I know we owe you a great debt of gratitude for this great kindness, O' great snag knocker!

lubab=nc said...

If you actually do practice the above, you are a bigger idiot than I gave you credit for.
Actually the only one that is stupid is the "sh'o chamishis" nonsense.
The pic and the igrois would passel shechitta.It's nogea to a'z

Hirshel Tzig said...

and you have semicha from whom?

Nogea to A"Z"? that sounds like Yeshivishe shprach for "I'm-an-Am HoOretz-but-would like-to-sound-like-a- lamdan..."

I don't "do" Igros, but do tell me how the Kletzker Rosh Yeshivah was allowed to do it during WW2?!

bpunbound said...

(regret before i start that i'm starting)

"But if you need this quote to "prove" nittel, than you are totally lost."

Bozo,

I prefaced that I needn't prove the minhag, the minhag was nispahet, in many Kreizen, hundreds of years ago and for that matter did not need the imprimature of the chasam sofer, as holy as he is( and he is). that you can't get past him, is your problem.

Furthermore, as I clealry stated, I brought R' Wolfson to try to present the concept in a manner that even one with a pea brain such as yourself can relate to.

You convinced me, I apparently overestimated even your mental capabilities!

PS - I suppose you would also defame the minhag to expectorate when saying "she'heim Mishtachavim..."?

Anonymous said...

"I don't "do" Igros, but do tell me how the Kletzker Rosh Yeshivah was allowed to do it during WW2?!"

So you're comparing goirol chumush to the rebbe igres?

Hirshel Tzig said...

again you miss the point

The problem here according to you is what, asking in the Rebbe's sefer or asking a sefer bichlal?

lubab=nc said...

Tzigalleh,
The more you "post" the more you show that im ein daas havdoloh menayen.
Lol, you compare every zalmy,mendy and levik opening up an igreis, instead of asking a living rov to a question that nobody knew the answer to , involving a chumash???
But thanks for bringing up the holocaust!
Vodka spiked kool-aid-for-brains.
BP
Let me stop the discussion with you now.If the feiner yid you brought before is a measuring stick to what I'm going to have to deal with.I don't debated cheder yinglach or their zeides who never developed over "citteh ches"
Peace.

lubab=nc said...

The cheider yingel I'm referring to is BP not R'Moshe Wolfson, a yid I respect but disagree with

Anonymous said...

I dont inderstand why you sidestep the question of why this post is not Lason Horah?

bpunbound said...

'Let me stop the discussion with you now'

I thank you for permission to stop wasting my time.

So let's sum up, you already displayed your briliance by being totally unaware that Nittel was a widespread minhag, observed long before R' Chaim published his sefer, which seems to be the extent of your horizon (not to imply that you could struggle thru one page, only for illustrative purposes).

Then, you continue, a manhig and mechanich of hundreds of yidden who took the time to illustrate a point in very simple, down to earth terms, while you, of course, possesor of a towering intellect (the amount of time you spend on the internet as proof positive), can't be bothered with such mere mortals.

Tell us, pal, I'm stuck here having to kill time on the job on such a fine Dec. 25, but what's your excuse from being away from der blatt gemorah...did they remove all the artscrolls from BMG!

Oh sorry, even the coffe room in BMG is a step up for a clueless nitwit like yourself.

Now goway boy, you bother me!!

Anonymous said...

I wrote (among other things): "For the same reason that we don't learn on תשעה באב. The same reason that when an אבל learns, he enters the גדר of ולרשע אמר אלקים מה לך לספר חוקי."

Hysterical wrote: "'scuse me?? An ovel may not learn Torah because it is "mesameach" same thing for tisho b'ov.What kool aid are you drinking?"

I bet you're only responding to that cuz that's as far as you got. Now I really understand the vort ישב וידום כי "נטל" עליו. If it's already Nittel Nacht and you're learning in honor of Oso Ha'Ish, you should at least have shut up.

But actually, astoundingly, you happened, in you וויסטער עם-הארצות to have stumbled upon something.

Guess why we don't learn on Tish'a B'Av? משום אבילות. Guess why we don't learn on Nittel Nacht? The קרבן נתנאל (ever heard of him?) wites: אמת הוא כי לילה זו כמו יום שחרב ביהמ"ק ומטעם זה אסור ללמוד כמו בת"ב. You claim that the Chasam Sofer maintained that the reason was because of dangerous streets? You're wrong. He writes the following in numerous places (קובץ מכתבים four): ע"ד אשר נשאלתי מאת מעה"ר בענין לאסור ת"ת בליל חגם ... שמעתי מאמ"ו מוה"ר נתן אדלער כהן צדק ז"ל הוא אמר הטעם משום אבילות ולכן אסור ללמוד כך שמעתי מאמ"ו הגאון החסיד ז"ל.

>And why weren't the tanoim and amoroim 'mesaken' this choshuveh takono??

Now that takes genius to a whole new level. First of all you've revealed that you've never opened a Sefer Halacha, and you're clueless as to how this religion works. Secondly, the Tana'im lived before Oso Ha'Ish, and the Amoraim didn't live in Christian countries. It's generally assumed that the Kelipa of Christianity isn't powerful in countries where it hasn't spread, and so the inhabitants aren't threatened by that. Whereas, the Rokeach, an inhabitant of Germany, one of the first Rishonim, already mentions the Minhag.

>I'd love to see the Maharsh'o you "quoted" btw.I have a good hunch it does not exist.

The Otzar Yad Hachaim brings that the Maharsha didn't learn on Nittel. Now, according to your theory, why shouldn't he learn? Meila the Yeshiva is closed, but why should that stop him from learning himself, to himself. Obviously, the reason was due to Oso Ha'Ish.

Oh and for historical proof, Marcus Lehmen writes a story about R. Tevle Sheiar (the Rebbe of the Chasam Sofer), whose Yeshivaleit would stay in the Beis Midrash and play cards. Someone massered that they weren't studying to disgrace Oso Ha'Ish, and the police came to investigate. But when they arrived, a shaala had punkt been asked and the Yeshivaleit had abandoned the cards and were discussing the issue. So there.

Don't bother making a fool out of yourself again. We're convinced.

lubab=nc said...

BP
Go and bow down to the FULL size pic in OHOLEI TORAH'S zal, will you?
All I challenged was the notion that learning torah strengthens Satan.
Since you think that one writes "sho'o chamishis" on wedding invitations, one can actually "ask" by writing gibberish into a book, and that the Rebbe is still somehow Nosi Hador, you have shown yourself to have the i.q of an undeveloped young boy.

Anonymous said...

"Now that takes genius to a whole new level. First of all you've revealed that you've never opened a Sefer Halacha, and you're clueless as to how this religion works. Secondly, the Tana'im lived before Oso Ha'Ish, and the Amoraim didn't live in Christian countries. It's generally assumed that the Kelipa of Christianity isn't powerful in countries where it hasn't spread, and so the inhabitants aren't threatened by that. Whereas, the Rokeach, an inhabitant of Germany, one of the first Rishonim, already mentions the Minhag."

Really? Wow.

If you checked out the post, it was not about Nittel, but about Lubavitchs INSISTENCE that the Torah goes to Samoel.Thank for proving from your various sources Karban Nesanel,that nobody thought to say that reason.
Yishar koich

Arthur said...

I think that lubab=nc is another pseudonym for Burech,Dovber and other various names he uses.The nusach of the "lomdeshe" posts seem to be the same.

bpunbound said...

I was confident you would eventually 'show' yourself for who you really are and what you're up to. Thank you.

as for "All I challenged was the notion that learning torah strengthens Satan", learning torah in certain situations can be moisof Koach, this has already been established. If you would broaden your 'horizons' you wouldn't embaress yourself by being mystyfied with concepts discussed in many sefarim, Lav Davka Chabad!

Now run along!!

Dov Ber said...

Albert,

Grow up .

Arthur said...

"Albert,

Grow up"
Nu need I say more?The same nusach.

Anonymous said...

Albert,

Once again, grow up.

Anonymous said...

>>learning torah in certain situations can be moisof Koach, this has already been established

So does putting tefillin on goyim and people who have no connection with Torah, according to R' Yoel.

Arthur said...

"Once again, grow up."
Once again, your a ferd and should add this name ,"Ferd" to the roster of names that you use to post your ferdishe statements.

beindel said...

Arthur
For a guy of your seniority, aren't you being very childish?
C'mon
Have a good shabbos

Chnyock said...

you hirshel are the final machzik b'maclokes. the blog you graciasly informed us of is gone. yet this post remains!

Anonymous said...

>>Once again, your a ferd and should add this name ,"Ferd" to the roster of names that you use to post your ferdishe statements.

I repeat: Grow up.