Friday, December 5, 2008
For Bnei Torah by a Ben Torah
Some of you here questioned Rabbi Pinchus Lipschutz's credentials and his general relationship - or lack thereof - with the Babylonian Talmud. You said he was a "BalleBus" and that he doesn't represent when he writes. We recently received an authentic copy of two approbations received by a then-unmarried Lipschutz to a sefer he wrote - um, compiled- in honor of his deceased mother, a"h. They include Harav Moshe Feinsten, zt"l, and Harav Yaakov Yisroel Kanievski, zt"l. Not bad for a young American lad. See them as you wish. We thank the reader who sent it in.
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80 comments:
sefer he wrote?
It seems he was publihing his grandfathers sefer or something along those lines.
You may not be aware of this, but Rav Moshe would give haskamos to anyone who came to him with two exceptions: books that were outright kfira, and people who worked actively against the chareidi communities here and in eretz yisrael. It is possible for PL to have gotten a haskama from Rav Moshe without being a ben Torah.
BTW I wish you would define that very loaded term for purposes of this discussion.
Come on, have you read the "haskomos"? First of all, he didn't "write" this sefer; as the haskomos make clear, he just arranged and published some old ksovim that his zeide had in his possession. R Moshe and the Steipler thought this was a good idea, and wrote haskomos for the project; neither haskomo says anything of PL's personal qualifications for it, let alone of his lomdus. As far as the haskomos are concerned he is just a bochur hazetzer.
In general R Moshe's "haskomos" were rarely about the seforim themselves, which he rarely read. All they generally say is that so-and-so came to me and told me that he's writing about such-and-such a subject,and it's a good idea that something should be written about that subject, and he seems knowledgeable, so good on him.
Tzig, Did you actualy read what it says? All this piece of paper says is that he wanted to publish someone elses torah.
Any high school kid if you give him some money can do that. Yes there have been many grubber "ballebatim" that have done this many a time.
This is a message to Pinny: You could try spreading this letter around fun heint biz morgen. At the end of the day we all see what is REALY there, and that is..... nezem zav bi'af chazir.
Ht, read the leeter before you post, you are imbarassing youreself here.
BTW, can you read hebrew?
leeter? what's a leeter? see you made a mistake too.
I realize that he compiled Teshuvos and such, but that, too, takes some knowledge. There's also nice praise on the man himself.
Just be careful all of you, because then lots of seforim, mechaberim, and ideas may be negated too.
"leeter? what's a leeter? see you made a mistake too."
Sorry for the mistake, here let me fix it: Letter.
Now fix your mistake.
You realise that you admited to posting a bubba maisa by mistake. Show some honesty and correct the falshkite.
I know it was nice of PL to send you the letters that he wants evertone to see. And I know that you will forever feel that you have to lick up to him because of it. But please try and show some repect to the fact that we can all read hebrew.
I fixed it before you could reprimand me. Now go and have yourself a nice Shabbos.
Yeh, and Zundal Berman wrote-um, compiled the Rashaba and the mishna brurah.
good Shabbos
wee bit different, ZB and PL in this case..
Good Shabbos
I won't be back here till tomorrow, so you get the final word
:-)
I know PL well. The man has seriosu chavrusos in the Olympia shul each day and even a passing look at his writings shows that he is well versed in Tanach, and Chaza'l.
He wrote shticklech Torah in a sefer l'iluy nishmas his mother as well. She passed away before he was even married.
is rabbi cunin meant to be taken literally?
http://hamercaz.com/hamercaz/site/mfile.php?id=3815
Pinny Lipshutz and eyneekel of R'Leizer Levin.Interesting.That makes him a nephew of rosh yeshiva Telz Chicago, R'Avrohom Chaim Levin and R'Berel Wein bezivug rishon, no?
Tzig, you should know more about Telz than me, can you verify this?
R'Leizer was Av Beid Din Detroit, talmid of the Chofetz Chaim iirc
Tzig
I just watched the Cunin video!
Man, I'm not feeling very happy with this.....
Cunin speaking in some shul before the dreadful news that Rabbi Holtzberg and the rest had been murdered says that now that the kid was saved everybody else would be saved and..... "We''ll show them all that its the Rebbe who runs the world"
Be honest, are you not troubled by this kind of shprach?
I see now that some of the "slip of tongues" and strange (to my ears at least)language used by the maspidim, is common fare in Lubavitch.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
I read this blog with a certain amount of astonishment. Alas PL has shown he courage to see the Mesiras Nefesh of a Talmid Chacham who moves to India to learn Torah with Jews and open a place of Haknasas Orchim.
Instead of intelligent debate about the value of his piece the hostility drops down the level seen by two kids fighting in the playground. Assaults on PL integrity as a Ben Torah, challenging his commitment to his publication, besmirching his name.
If this is the level of the debate that represents the Litvashe world "oy vey" for Lakewood and company. Lipshultz had the courage to look beyond the politics as see a common destiny with a Jew in far away land who dedicated his live to others. Those who sit comfortable in warm houses in New Jersey throw eggs filled with malice and character assassinations. If that is the breath of ideas in the arsenal of the Litvashe world then we have arrived at a time of intellectual pigmys.
Get real you may have real disagreements with Lubavitch over many issues, and they have with you. Transcend your personal malice to find at least some common ground when Jews who dedicated their lives to Klal Yisroel rest in fresh graves. If you feel that PL has somehow failed his mandate ot championing the Yeshivash community than argue the points for what they are. Stop insulting his integrity as a Talmid Chacham and a Jew who heart is able to rise above his personal ideology to encompass someone that he has strong disagreements.
Boruch Dov:
what you say is correct, he's an eynikel of Rav Levin of Detroit.
anonymous 10:09 gets an award for that beautiful post.
Can anyone comment on Cunins words?
Is this common in Lubavitch?
I'm no rov, but to say that "The Rebbe runs the world" souns like.....well you know what I mean without me saying it clearly.
common? not really.
but the point is that it's meaningless Lubavitch chatter, nothing that you think it is.
Hirshel
What does it mean."The Rebbe runs the world".Especially after his histalkus .
These words, if they were said about someone else on Sunday in a house of worship would be considerd bonafide a"z.Why is this just "meaningless chatter"?
(if i'm not mistaken cunin is not even an official "meshichist" he is aligned with the main Lubavitch institutions, no?
וואס מיינסט דו אז אונז זענען יאלדען אפ צו קויפען פון דוך דער ברוקלינער ברידז . קונען האט עס געמיינט מיטן פולען ערענסטקייט. ס' איז נישט קיין סוד אז רוב די נייע "כאבאדסקערס" גלובען אזוי
ס' איז אינטערעסאנט צו באמערקען אז ווען עס קומט צו די "סאקמוירים" ביסטע מדייק אייעדסווארט און נאך דער צו לייגסט אריין זאלץ און פעפער אבי עס זאל רויס קומען אזוי ווי דו וויסט ,כאטש עס שטייט נישט אפילו . דא ווען דער כאבאדסקער "ראביי" שרייט ארויס אפענע כפירה זאגטס דו אז סתם "נאריש גערעדט" "עס איז נישט וואס דו מיינסט "אהא!!!
nisht alle, nor di. Biz di dresist zich nisht in di Lubavitcher kultur far a meshech zman bisti aza bar deah vi ich bin of Greek Philosophy.
Why didn't you post my other post?
Who told you I did not drey zech in Chabad.
Heard of Zinner??
I was in Chabad before you.
Although you never passed through all the places you criticize you still feel a baal deiah, eh?
Only others are not allowed.
Ich farshtei.
That's what happens vehn meh trinkt tsi feel lechaim's
pinkt vi di veist genau voos der choochem Shlomo Cunin tracht ba zich in hartzen, vais ich voos der Oycher Yisroel Fulop hut ba zich.
aza editorial darf nisht kan sach diyuk, es shrayt oys fin di shmutzige bletel.
Ich plan "mertzeshem" shpeyter ibbertatshen vort ba vort fin di editorial, in di vest mich oopshloogen, oh kay?
cunin said it out.Aloud.Beroiv om.
The editorial, even if it meant what you want it to mean, is nasty.No more.
Cunin talks a"z and you are not bothered by it.
You claim that is lubavitch shprach and that's what scares me.Callous comparisons between the Bashafer and a yelood isha, ad kedai fardreying the yoitsros according to you is very common.
'nuff said
Ba Unz in Briske zogt men: Machst a Hanochoh un fregst a Kashe.
Prove to me that it's AZ and then get back to me.
'nuff said.
Oh, and before you "prove" it, find out what he actually means when he says it.
Hirshel
I'm not going to shlog you op.You are probably right that it was not meant as a compliment.Big deal.They give others much ,much worse treatment including eygeneh mishpucheh.
Here they were "nice" enough to just hint.
My problem is your cavalier attitude towards serious shituf & worse.
Btw, just watched a snippet from col where Gronner is menachem the wifes father "the rebbe will take care".So even the mashbakim have gotten mixed up between Bashafer and yellod isho?
May I ask you a personal question? are you affiliated with any chassidic group at all?
Dear Hirshel,
When you say "We''ll show them that the Rebbe runs the world" it's kefirah.Now, maybe you've heard that the din is you are not toen, melamed zechus on a "meisis".
I don't have to know what he meant, what he thinks.
yes and no.Learned mostly by chasidim and today I'm always on the prowl for emmeseh yidden like the Kosover you posted a video about
I see you're judge and jury without ever speaking to the man or accepting an explanation. Good thing I don't have to stand before you...
"Meisis" my foot. Stop showing us all what kind of kanoishe fool you are.
so go and ask the Kossover Rebbe Shlit"a what HE thinks of such a statement.
Btw
I think Cunin needs a rov to go and tell him in no uncertain terms real yiddishe hashkofo.It has to be a Lubavitcher because L's won't be mekabel from anyone else.
Legufoi shel inyon Cunin is arguably the shliach who has single handedly accomplished the most of any other shliach.He is an unbelievable bulldozer ad keday mesirus nefesh.He has many merits.
He also needs a good talking to so all the good he has done does not go down the drain.
Ech miz arous gayen fin shtib yetst
C u later
Me a kanoi??lol.Quit seeing everone who has a different opinion as a zealot or hater.Please ich bayt dech
To the spitz-chachomim who accuse Cunin of ..., he is merely saying fundamental Chassidic teachings (though not in too elegant fashion) of the very foudners of Chassidus, i.e., the Maggid of Mezeritsh who is the memale mokom of the Baal Shem Tov and the rebbe of all rebbes and their dynasties. Since לאו כל מוחא סביל דא
I cite in original from the Maggid's seforim published by Toldos Aaron:
לקוטי אמרים סי' ט: הצדיקים רוצים להנהיג את העולם וברא הקב"ה את העולמות כדי שיתעמגו בהנהיגם כו' וזהו רצון יראיו יעשה וכו
שם סי' רנב: שהתנה הקב"ה עם מע"ב שיעשו רצון הצדיקים אף שאינם בטבעם
ןעיין שם בלקוטים חדשים ערך צדיק ובפרט אות ה ואות ז ועוד.
ובהופות לספר לקוטים יקרים (מספר אור תורה מהרב המגיד*)ערך צדיקים:
שהשגחה שלו מסורה ביד הצדיקים ועל ידיהם הוא משגיח על העולמות
Quite clearly then he is not off the mark, and in the future check your sources before commenting.
Than you so much anon 4:"20 pm!
(hey how about signing a name to your drivel,eh?)
So it's ok to say the Rebbe runs the world,huh?
So what's next davening to him?
The guy who criticised Cunins remark specifically mentioned that after gimmel tammuz to say the Rebbe runs the world is apikorsus
To Anon at 4:20
This is all only while the צדיק is alive, you can't compare it to the current דרישה אל מתים
zebra
so now the Mezritsher Maggid is "drivel?!"
Oy LeAyna'im SheKach Ro'os!
anonymous 4:45
and you know this how?
have you ever gone to put a kvittel at a tzaddik's kever? is that too "doresh el HaMeysim?!"
it is common knowledge that R Cunin is Anti Moshichist
it is common knowledge that R Cunin is Anti Moshichist
for political purposes only....
The burden is on you to show otherwise, where do you ever see this is by dead tzadikim too? By the way it's nothing new and not from the maggid, it's from chazal,
אמר ליה חזי מאן גברא רבה קמסהיד עליה מאי בהמתן של צדיקים דרבי פנחס בן יאיר הוה קאזיל לפדיון שבויין פגע ביה בגינאי נהרא אמר ליה גינאי חלוק לי מימך ואעבור בך אמר ליה אתה הולך לעשות רצון קונך ואני הולך לעשות רצון קוני אתה ספק עושה ספק אי אתה עושה אני ודאי עושה אמר ליה אם אי אתה חולק גוזרני עליך שלא יעברו בך מים לעולם חלק ליה
and the more famous mi sheomar lishemen sheyadlik...
Me personally when I daven at a kever of a tzadik it's because the shechina is there.
To Anonymous 4:38: Didn't I tell you (and your bandwagon) to check the sources before you comment? I can understand that you don't know what the Zohar (3:71a-b)) says, but do you have to embarras yourself by publicising your ignorance of a simple ma'amar chazal that "gedolim tzadikim bemisosom yoiser mibechayehem"?
As for the "lomdim" who cite the principle of "doresh el hameissim", obviously they never learned the Gemara, Rambam and Shulchan Aruch which define what that means (never mind the aforementioned Zohar), thus - Rachmono litzlon - are megaleh ponim baTorah shelo kehalochoh. (with all that implies)
"I daven at a kever of a tzadik it's because the shechina is there"
Anon 5.08
Interesting. Do you have to go to kivrei tzadikim for that when "melo kol ho'oretz kevodo" and "es hashomayim ve'es ho'oretz Ani molei" - even in the lowly "thornbush - she'ein mokom ponui belo Shechinoh afilu hasneh."
Incidentally, the Gemara you cited re R. Pichas ben Yoir, is cited there by the Maggid (in LA 252), but not as the source - but as being understood by the principle I mentioned in my post. But kudos to you for seeing the relationship.
Zohar is talking about dead tzadikim davening before hashem, as the gemara says that mordechai went to the kivrie avos to daven before hashem. You don't need to be fancy and quote a zohar.
Tzadik gozer vihakadosh baruch hu mekayim, is something a lot bigger than tzadikim davening to hashem,
אמר רבי אבהו הכי קאמר אמר אלקי ישראל לי דבר צור ישראל אני מושל באדם מי מושל בי צדיק שאני גוזר גזרה ומבטלה
That is what the magid is referring to, if you don't see the difference, I can't help you.
And I was using doresh el hamesim as an expression. I know doresh el hamesim is specifically when you try to find out what will happen in the future as is clear from the pasuk "sho'el oiv vidoresh el hamesim"
But once you decided to put your foot in your mouth, here is what the חיי אדם says:
איסור דורש אל המתים זה שמרעיב עצמו ולן בבית הקברות כדי שתשרה עליו רוח הטומאה ואותן נשים וכן עמי הארצות שהולכין על קברי מתים וכאילו מדברים עם המתים ואומרים להם צרותיהם קרוב הדבר שהם בכלל זה ונמצא שיש מן הגאונים היו רוצים לאסור להשתטח על קברי מתים אלא ההולכים שם יתפללו לה' שימלא שאלותם בזכות אבותיו ובזכות הצדיקים
anonymous 4:45
I'm not sure since when the CA is THE Mekor, but what really bothers me is how you've managed to drag this discussion from Shlomo Cunin to Doresh El Hameysim. This is old rehashed garbage. These are the old so-called "taynes" against the Rebbe, that he spent too much time at the Ohel.
I can't believe you still recycle that trash.
"I daven at a kever of a tzadik it's because the shechina is there"
Anon 5.08
Interesting. Do you have to go to kivrei tzadikim for that when "melo kol ho'oretz kevodo" and "es hashomayim ve'es ho'oretz Ani molei" - even in the lowly "thornbush - she'ein mokom ponui belo Shechinoh afilu hasneh."
So you don't thing there is any difference between the kosel that is says lo zaza shechina misham, and your local steibel?
And sorry it says in seforim that the reason we daven by kevarim is because the shechina is only by kivrie tzadikim, I didn't make it up.
Yeruchem at 7:54, You missed this part of by post
"
And I was using doresh el hamesim as an expression. I know doresh el hamesim is specifically when you try to find out what will happen in the future as is clear from the pasuk "sho'el oiv vidoresh el hamesim"
But once you decided to put your foot in your mouth, here is what the חיי אדם says:"
OK, BUT STILL. the conversation started with Pinny Lipschutz and now this???
A litlle back on topic.
PL, by sending this letter to a Lubavitcher blog you really arent doing much in terms of boosting and repairing your reputation within the yeshivish community. What you really need to do is have someone hang it up in the BMG coffee room. Although I'll admit, it will probably get more than a few laughs.
Hersh. Lets be realistic, you cant really say "for bnei torah by a ben torah" if a majority of what people refer to as "bnei torah", hardly agree with that statemant whan it comes to PL.
The bnei torah I know in Lakewood and elsewhere, dont consider him to be a ben torah or anything close to it, and usualy take offense when you put him the same category as them, (regardless of this letter from Reb Moshe and the Steiper about a sefer that PL DIDNT write).
Anon 4.45, your citation of Chaye Odom (and see also Chochmas Odom 89:7) is strange, as he is a daas yochid and yotze dofen in this matter [and bimechilas kvoidoi typical Litvak approach], going counter to many explicit rishonim and acharonim - see Shut Rashbo 4:103, Bach on YD 217, Shut Maharam Shik O.C 393, Minchas Elozor 1:68 etc. (Note also the arichus in SdeiChemed, Rosh Hashonoh sect. 1). Thus lehalocho ulema'seh absolutely nothing wrong.
the conversation started with Pinny Lipschutz and now this???
You're right, except that the problem is that the same undercurent and "stam makshonim" relates to all the points mentioned here.
Here is the Bach, see it for yourself
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14272&pgnum=263
Looks almost exactly like the חכמת אדם
I can't find the Maharam Shik.
pinny is anti torah reb shmuel deutch tried to shut him down a couple of years ago but was stopped at the last minute by reb elya svei bec. he felt bad for his nephew. its time we expose pinny for who he is anti torah pro lubavitch and anything that boosts his credentials in the world he cares for nothing. Just look at his paper how he has malcom honelin in there every week reb shach is rolling over in his grave. Pinny its time for u to go back to kings terrace days or stay in olympia and leave the yated
SINCE WHEN DID REB SHMUEL DEUTSCH - A HUNGARIAN - BECOME THE FINAL WORD IN THE LITVISHE OLAM HATORAH??
Isn't he on the side of the Markowitzes in the Ponovizh Machlokes? doesn't that make him persona non-grata in the Litvishe world today?
Alevay, Ballebatim and any of these "Anons" had 20% of RPL's knowledge
>>Thus lehalocho ulema'seh absolutely nothing wrong.
The Mishna Berurah does not agree with you and your citations are incorrect. At least look them up before you cite them.
Look, nothing is going to change the way Cunin thinks. If he believes the Rebbe runs the world, this particular way of thinking is not in accord with basic Jewish fundamentals and is, thus, unacceptable. But no one here cares. They will make up citations and resort to circular reasoning but logic and honesty is not something you should expect to find. They are defensive for obvious reasons. They will always be defensive about these issues.
So just leave them alone!
Here is the Bach, see it for yourself
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14272&pgnum=263
Looks almost exactly like the חכמת
אדם
Looks that you did not read or did not understand. His quotation of R. Chaim Paltiel looks like the Chochmas Odom, but then see what and how the Bach concludes! Add to that Sotah 34b (noting the precise wording there), and Bobo Metzio 85b the story of R. Chavivo (again noting the precise wording there) - which are exactly what hishtatchus al kivrei tzadikim, like the Ohel, is all about.
I'll reiterate an earlier post...all the clods that have trouble with the certain 'terms' employed by chasidei chabad, have no clue what those terms imply and have PROBABLY never opened a serious sefer on Chasiddus to bother finding out.
Vu is Der:
No need to insult people. The problem is about language. Saying one thing yet meaning another because you are "too deep" to understand is not much of an excuse. Thank about that.
"SINCE WHEN DID REB SHMUEL DEUTSCH - A HUNGARIAN - BECOME THE FINAL WORD IN THE LITVISHE OLAM HATORAH??"
Reb SD, a talmid nuvahak of Rav Shach, Reb Smnuel , and Reb Berel, is not daas torah. but PL who is a talmid muvhak of Chaim zev L and the Yankees...hes got it down pat. (See what a letter and a little attention by a baalabus to a lubavitcher blogger can do).
"Isn't he on the side of the Markowitzes in the Ponovizh Machlokes? doesn't that make him persona non-grata in the Litvishe world today?"
You might wanna get a little education on yeshivishe politics before you open your mouth and show your ignorance. RS Markowitz and his side is VERY popular in the litvish world.
80 yrs and then what happened at the end... Indeed he should take a lesson from a gemara even if its not in a sicha.
Reb SD, a talmid muvhak of Rav Shach, Reb Smnuel , and Reb Berel, is not daas torah. but PL who is a talmid muvhak of Chaim zev L and the Yankees...hes got it down pat. (See what a letter and a little attention by a baalabus to a lubavitcher blogger can do).
so what? that's why he can come to the US and shut down a paper?! was he doing it BeShlichus of his Rebbe or on his own?
"You might wanna get a little education on yeshivishe politics before you open your mouth and show your ignorance. RS Markowitz and his side is VERY popular in the litvish world."
very popular? the ONLY Gadol they claim to have on their side besides for Reb Shmuel and his brother is Rav Elyashiv. Granted, that's not a bad ONE to have, but all the others, including Reb Chaim K, Rav Steinman, Rav MY Lefkowitz and Rav Nisim K, are all on the Kahaneman side!
Fred shoots his mouth off! yay for Freddy Boy!
"very popular? the ONLY Gadol they claim to have on their side besides for Reb Shmuel and his brother is Rav Elyashiv. Granted, that's not a bad ONE to have, but all the others, including Reb Chaim K, Rav Steinman, Rav MY Lefkowitz and Rav Nisim K, are all on the Kahaneman side!"
Fact is he is VERY popular. ask around. you'll see.
fact is you didn't address my point.
I said he is very popular. you said: hes very popular? But RCK & RS & etc... are on Kahanamens side.
And ill say it again RSM is still very popular.
Its not so hard to understand, hershel. 1st graders in bnei brak understand this. If you try you will too.
so Da'as Torah is not popular anymore in BB????
They're at it again-
The BIG ban of the LITTLE event.
http://hamercaz.com/hamercaz/site/news_item.php?id=2575
Hershel, did you hear about the massive strike in the biggest school in Lakewood. There are thousands of kids out of school, and theres major politics between BMG and some other guys. Reb shmuel kaminetzky came into town emergency. it looks like its gonna start to get bloody.
I think Matzav.com had an article about the sitch.
I saw something. Is it all about lack of pay? How behind are they in paying the teachers there?
Here's the Lakewood School story with more details:
http://hamercaz.com/hamercaz/site/news_item.php?id=2555
Did you people see the long article of Reb Mordechai Gross how Rav Shach is similar to Rahsbi, Every Lubavither Chossid believes that th Rebbe has Nishmas Rashbi without the pilpul because when its obvious you don't need a pilpul, all the words that are being used in chabad by Kunin .. are being used on Rashbi in Miron
pay was the excuse for a strike. the real story is heavy politics. (Its a known secret)
why not tell readers from outside Lakewood about the school in general and what the politics is all about?
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