Shame on Yitz
This has absolutely nothing to do with the organization that he works for. It has everything to do with him wiping himself clean of the whole story. Nobody cares for his opinion, and nobody should be pointing fingers, Jew or Gentile, religious or not.
81 comments:
What do you expect from Aish? They see an opportunity to kick another mosdos when it's down, they literally cannot pass it up. After all, the less money that goes to the competition, the more there is to go to Aish.
Enough of these frum crime stories already. Let all the defendants plead guilty and spare the Jewish community the "obligation" of providing pidyon shevuim funds for their legal defense. Each one of them is going to require hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to get them off of what is anyways only a maximum of five years. Not supporting them will show that we, the Jewish community, do not approve of financial crimes. A greater chillul hashem than their crimes is the fact that the frum community actually supports these people through their trials and people like Tzig discourage open discussion about whether we shouldn't be committing financial crimes at all. Haven't we had enough embarrassment already? Why do we allow these crimes to repeat themselves over and over? If only crime would be condemned and not supported, dozens of yungerleit would be out of jail today supporting their families with honest jobs.
On second thought, maybe we should condemn them because our rabbonim themselves are complicit in the financial schemes.
Nemo
There are usually no Pidyin Shvu'im campaigns for cases such as these. Those are reserved for special cases, such as Japan and that nut Helbrantz. I agree with you that the frum world will soon get very tired of these crimes, but that doesn't mean we need to point fingers and say that "my hands are clean." Especially when there are some very innocent people mixed into this whole hunt.
Hirshel, how are you so sure that they are innocent? Because they have long white beards?
no, not because of old facial hair, it's because I know them to be not the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to business...
Sharpest tool?
How would you know.Are you the sharpest tool?
oh, now we offended some poor guy...
Don't use this scandal to bash your enemies, Aish.
Thought u had lots & lots to say....
Link to vosinznais= lots & lots to say?
U r a pretty blunt tool
Also, I don't think there's an attitude of clean hands over here. Unfortunately, very few of us can actually say that they never cut legal corners. Us insiders know all sorts of scams that happen daily in frum communities like tax evasion and insurance fraud. You especially, in the finance industry, must realize that there's no way for all these frum businesses, mosdos and families to be living the way they do or remaining in business for too long if their MO is actually in compliance with the law. It's a miracle of miracles that these arrests don't happen more often.
I'll be surprised if there aren't a few more arrests in the coming weeks once the shuls' books get a look over.
Do you think these guys laundered money only once? You think they're not that smart that they fell into a government trap? You don't need tremendous business acumen to launder money ... it's a pretty simple transaction once you have your non-profit open. Furthermore, the government wire recordings have many of these admitting to having laundered money before. In some instances, they even state clearly that they know what they're doing is against the law.
Most of these cases are going to be open and shut. I doubt that even a good legal defense team could get some of these guys off ...
You're missing the point here. The guy who trafficked organs gets very little sympathy even in the frum community. The others, especially when they did it for no monetary gain of their own, that's a different story altogether...
There's lots to say, but I don't think this is the place for it.
I'm not bashing my "enemies," the guy decided to wipe his hands clean and point fingers. He's the outcast here.
"After speaking about the Merkos Shlichus summer visitation program to Jewish communities, they declined to speak about the FBI round up with the broadcaster noting that "rabbis arrested were non-Chabad."
Chabad covering their own behinds??
no, you dimwit, it's responding to accusatory questions from piranhas in the press. Quite different than pointing fingers when nobody asked for your two-bit opinion.
You hear me, Yitz?!
"The others, especially when they did it for no monetary gain of their own, that's a different story altogether..."
Who r these others?
U know, with tipshim like u around it's dangerous.Just shut up.Why do u think that there is a reason for u to blog about it? You have added nothing besides an attack against Aish, a dubious claim that the people accused are fools .-
-----------------------
"I'm not bashing my "enemies," the guy decided to wipe his hands clean and point fingers. He's the outcast here."
Outcast?
Cuz your boich sevorah says so?
If I was you I would not talk about "outcasts"
The door is that way, my friend. You don't like what you see here? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You don't need to take the other side EVERY time, sometimes we can agree. I see you can't help yourself.
"no, you dimwit, it's responding to accusatory questions from piranhas in the press. Quite different than pointing fingers when nobody asked for your two-bit opinion."
----------------
Ramble on.......
Yes, we got it you don't like Aish, do you?Nothing to do with you happening to be Lubavitch? You are totally objective.As if
7:14, I am neither Aish nor Chabad. I can tell you from personal experience as a BT the difference between the two groups is simple. Aish views outreach as a means of fundraising in the wealthier secular communities. Chabad sees it as just one of many ways they try to help all Jews.
Here is what confuses me:
"Chillul Hashem L'Shaim Shomayim:
HELP?
JD
Anon 7:07 where is that quote about Merkos from?
I think Aish likes to perpetuate the impression and spread the message to the anti-frim that charedim are evil and we are not like them.
By putting others down, the inadequate etc, Aish builds its empire. Lets face it, Aish feeds on vulnerable and emotionally fragile people. Has it produced one serious talmid chochom who did not need to go elsewhere once properly frim ?
The shtark intellectuals go to Or Someach and the more spiritual types gravitate towards chassidis.
I have to say: I don't understand your opposition to Yitz. Someone in the frum world has to state that view. It would be a bigger chilul hashem if everybody remained silent. I didn't speak about that angle at all, since I think the story is far more complicated. But it's good for the Jews that some Orthodox organization did.
On a simple level, if a person cannot mkabel the psak of his school/shul's Rov on something just over a pruta, how can one go and judge others?
Like I said last week, the moral of the story is; avoid wire taps, conduct all bussiness in the Shvitz/Mikveh.
BTW, the organ mans defense will be somthing along these lines. Since there were Yiddin who needed organs, his scheme falls under the rule of Pikuach Nefesh, which is Doche' kol HaTorah including Dina Di'Malchusa.
Nemo,
"dozens of yungerleit..."
really?
care to back that up with ANY facts?
does anyone remember when the Rebbe threateded to daven with only 10 if the "neshomos" business, "ashe yatzar"etc summer youth fraud did not immediatly stop.and what was his attitude to medicaid nr=ursing home fraud, remember...
"Quite different than pointing fingers when nobody asked for your two-bit opinion."
You are the KING of offering unsolicited two-bit opinions. Who the hey told you to have a blog at all?
and at least he signs his name to it.
I am bothered by the way the Feds lumped everyone into the same basket. Can you really compare the Lakewood housing inspector who takes a couple hundred dollars to look the other way to Levi Yitzchok the organ trafficer?
-Michoel: I never realized one needed to ask permission to start a blog. . . Should we ask you?
Lubavitch inc. will not allow any statement about this story besides making it clear that it did not involve Lubavitchers.On the other hand when some Lubavitcher dufuses in Iowa decided to break every law on a wholesale basis they tried and were succesful in many cases of rounding up support from many Frum quarters.
Again,Lubavitch at it's "finest".
Had this involved any employee of Lubavitch inc they would have been petitioning the whole world.
Mottel,
You do not need permission to start a blog. But one who does so (especially a blog of this nature) is hardly in a position to criticize others for pontificating.
I think the litmus test for how pure the intentions of this Lubavitcher blogger are is to ask a simple what-if question:What if a Lubavitcher had written a similar piece to R'Greenman of Aish?
If you have followed this blog for even a short amount of time you''ll know the answer.
ראשית, כמו חב"ד, הוא היה איש-אמת לחלוטין, תמיד היה מודה על האמת בכל הלב. כששאלו אותו שאלה בשיעור, לא אחת הודה שטעה בדבריו, גם אם זה היה קשור לרעיון המרכזי של השיעור. לא היה שייך אצלו שינסה לחפות על עצמו ולהסתיר טעויות שלו. זכור לי שפעם הוא אמר את ה'שיעור כללי' השבועי, שהתקיים תמיד ביום שלישי, מהשעה שש עד רבע לשבע בערב. מישהו הקשה על דבריו מרשב"א בבבא-קמא, ולאחר שעיין בדבר אמר לבחורים: "סליחה, טעיתי. אין לי מה לומר יותר". הוא הפסיק מיד באמצע השיעור והלך להתפלל מעריב.
Anonymous 9:53: you want me to back up the fact that there are dozens of yungerleit in Federal prison or that dozens of yungerleit could hold down a legitimate job?
Otisville was designed primarily with the Orthodox Jewish community in mind, although it is not officially designated as a Jewish facility. It was built in response to the fact that Orthodox Jews often tried to get out of doing time by making the legal argument that the Bureau of Prisons violated their First Amendment rights because it could not accommodate their religious lifestyle.
Location: Otisville, N.Y.
Opened: 1980
Capacity: 100
Population: 119
Amenities: One dorm with two-man cubicles. Playing cards, board games and walking. No athletics.
No vocational training.
Prisoner perks: Kosher kitchen, weekly Shabbat observances. Every year during Passover, Jewish convicts are flown into Otisville temporarily to participate in a seder.
Source: http://www.forbes.com/2002/09/12/bestprisonslide_5.html
Fake and fraud
On the one hand you mock the "pidyon shevuyim" of the The boys in Japan, but still accuse Gil Student of having questionable Jewish status, when he addresses this issue.
nemo,
great deflection. now answer the question. you said there are DOZENS OF YUNGERLEIT in jail who otherwise could support their families by holding down a job, not that they are learning and not holding down a job.
so bring some proof of DOZENS of yungerleit in jail before your credibility is entirely shot.
that being said, I guess you must think of yourself as a funny guy...
Anonymous said...
Lubavitch inc. will not allow any statement about this story besides making it clear that it did not involve Lubavitchers.....
You guys don't get it. Lubavitch sends out hundreds of bochurim to far-out communities every summer. These guys are mostly right out of yeshiva and don't have the nuances of talking to mass media down pat. Since this story went public, the NY office sent a message to these bochurim to avoid discussing the subject since you'll end up tripping on your words and being quoted out of context k'rogil with reporters. I saw the email and it does not mention lubavitchers vs. non-lubavitchers Ch"V. It says stick to your shlichus and avoid commenting.
No, Lubavitchers don't hate the whole world. Sorry for ruining your pre-Tisha B'av anti-semitism. Instead, you can go to the Chofetz Chaim Foundation and hear dovid orlofsky talk about "slander gossip and verbal abuse", a very fitting person who is on video talking the most disgusting things about the Rebbe.
Anon
Hirshel is blessed with loonies that will always find the chabad connection in every news bit, but over here its a little too much even for crredmor, I dont see the Lubavich Iowa connection.
One simple question about yidden involved in 'shvartze gesheften' from whichever kreiz....
If torah is the 'tavlin' to beat the yetzer hora...how could this have happened ?
Would a regular shiur in Tanya have prevented these guys from doing what they did ?
How much chasidus must one learn to achieve 'Moach Shalit Al Halev'.
I once asked an older mashpia when talking about 'Moach Shalit Al Halev'why he still smokes, if you are in control, why not just stop. He still has not come back with an answer.
Yidden...Ellul is coming - Oy layom hadin, oy latochecho.....
"dovid orlofsky talk about "slander gossip and verbal abuse", a very fitting person who is on video talking the most disgusting things about the Rebbe."
Where is video from R. Orlofsky?
I think someone needs to teach our brothers in Brooklyn that you are meant to deal in Kosher gelt, not in kashering gelt....
First "he" gets angry when his rag-a-blog is called a loshon hora blog.
Then...
He allows this:"Instead, you can go to the Chofetz Chaim Foundation and hear dovid orlofsky talk about "slander gossip and verbal abuse", a very fitting person who is on video talking the most disgusting things about the Rebbe."
Hizoharu min hatzvuim!
A fitting hachoneh for Tisho b'ov (for Amolek, that is..)
I don't know where the video is, but the audio is one of the ugliest things I had heard in a long time, which was a surprise coming from someone I had always considered good-humored and broad-minded.
http://www.col.org.il/pics/inbox/115E%2D02%5F9757916%2Emp3
He gives a class to summarize what Satmar and Lubavitch are all about. A summary of his words: Satmar is a gevaldik group that does tons of Bikur Cholim and Chesed to all Jews, regardless of affiliation. And Lubavitch is a wacky sect that deifies its Rebbe. That's his Koiach of Distillation!
y didn't u post my response to nemo? u just gonna let him get away with an absurd claim that dozens of yungerleit are in jail b/c he posted a disgusting putdown of kollelim?
Yehupitz
David orlofsky? who his that? a litvish magid as the clean shaven litvish maggid?
I don't understand your question. He does have a beard, if that was your question.
The last I heard, he teaches at Ohr Someyach. Used to be at Ohr Dovid, a post-HS yeshiva in Yerushalayim. I think his popularity among yeshivaleit started when a tape of his talk about "Platonic Relationships" went "viral", as they say. He acquired a deserved reputation of being very funny. I also happen to like his toichen. I've heard him both in person and on tape another few times besides that.
Besides the Chabad talk I linked, his other more recent claim to fame was his blasting of Natan Slifkin and defence of the Machrimim a couple of years ago.
"kosher gelt not kashering gelt" LOL.
I grew up in a house where we reported income for our taxes that we didn't have to. Anything else was gezel harabim.
Every time I hear about something like this I wonder how it could happen.
Yehupitz
Like you I"m Chabad Friend.I listened to the audio and you are right he has a healthy sense of humor and is an interesting speaker.
When he comes to Lubavitch he is more animated compared to when he addresses Satmar, probably because he has had much more personal interaction,Lubavitch rebbi in school etc.
He makes some factual mistakes like when he says that Lubavitch don't wear shtreimels because the Rebbe did not get the Frierdige Rebbes shtreimel but does not realize that in Lubavitch chasidim never wore shtreimels only the rebbes did and it wasen't even a shtreimel actually.
Unfortunately the gist of the talk is quite accurate with some wiggle room but basically most of the black hat yeshiva world would agree.That is also the reason I am merely Chabad Friend but cannot get closer than that.There are many things I like about Lubavitch, but.....
Chabad Friend
"only the rebbes did and it wasen't even a shtreimel actually"
the last 3 Rebbes of chabad didn't wear Shtrimels outside of the town of Lubavich, I think that the Marash didn't want that his son the Reshab should wear a shtriemel at his wedding. the brides family wanted a shtrimel since they had already some Chernobil influence. I guess in Chabad they didnt find the shtriemel to be a pillar of chasidus as the other ones believed.
Yehupitz
Kol Hamaitzr Leyisroel Nauseh Roish
he blasted Slifkin,he badmouths Chabad he becomes legit.
There is chasidic saying, Kaidash how can you become Heilig when Urchatz men Baviesht a tzveiten
I hope u understand yiddish
Amongst some of the "shortcomings" of Lubvitch he makes mention of is Lubavitch opening a day school where one already existed.Well what he forgets to mention is that the exact thing happened in Huston except the reverse occurred.Lubavitch has a long established Day school there which was very well accepted by the Jewish community and also happens to be an excellent school.Along came a group of Aish Hatoriniks and decided to open their own day school even though the city can support only one.
There are many other intentional or unintentional (I tend believe the former rather then the latter) inaccuracies to lengthly to go into at this point.
The majority of thse people were duped by dwek drek. He never knew most of these people before. He just went on a crusade to save some of his skin.
Lets have some juicy gossip lechvoid tishah beov
In the summer of 1982, DeLorean received a phone call from James Hoffman, a former drug smuggler turned FBI informant. DeLorean met with Hoffman on July 11, 1982, to discuss an investment opportunity to help save his company. Over the course of the next three months, Hoffman slowly explained his intricate plan involving cocaine smugglers, a bank for laundering money, and the specifics of how much money DeLorean would be required to front to procure the deal. DeLorean went along with these discussions, planning to trade DMC stock for the seed money for any deal that would benefit the company, but leaving the drug-smuggler investors with stock in a company completely controlled by the British government. On October 19, before going to meet the investors to consummate the deal, DeLorean wrote a letter to his attorney and sealed it, with instructions to open it only if he did not return. The letter explained the situation he was in and his fear for his family's safety if he tried to back out of the deal. On October 19, 1982, DeLorean was charged with trafficking in cocaine by the US Government.
Before the trial began, the FBI's videotape of the sting was leaked to the media by Hustler Magazine publisher Larry Flynt. In the videos, when arresting DeLorean, an FBI agent is shown asking him whether he would rather defend himself or have "his daughter's head smashed in."[13] This prompted the judge to postpone the trial until the following year because of undue bias from the leaked tape.
DeLorean successfully defended himself with a procedural defense, arguing that the police had asked him to supply the money to buy the cocaine. His attorney stated in Time (March 19, 1984), "This [was] a fictitious crime. Without the government, there would be no crime." The DeLorean defense team did not call any witnesses. DeLorean was found not guilty due to entrapment on August 16, 1984.
YITZ
SYOg l'chochma shtika
Chabad Friend,
When he speaks about Lubavitch, he is not only more animated. He is thoroughly negative. That talk is part of a curriculum that intends to give over what different groups in Klal Yisroel are all about. Azoch'n vei (sp?) that this is what Ohr Lagola students now think of both Satmar and Lubavitch.
His gist is not accurate at all. Yes, Lubavitch has a far greater dose of Leader-Reverence than any other group in kosher Klal Yisroel ever had. On far more than one occasion, I have found it disturbing, along with everyone else. That too is why I maintain a certain distance despite my admiration for the rest of the package. (I also see that this model of Rebbe-centric community was done b'davka to get the results it did. Hopefully time will reduce the negative consequences and only the good will remain.)
But that's not the gist.
But he couldn't see any of the rest, or relate it to his impressionable class of idealistic students who would believe every word he uttered?!
First it is an audio not video and thanks for the correction.
Second, I listened to the audio again. He's a blatant hater who uses half-assed gossip to build a story about the Rebbe. If he would have bothered to do basic research, he wouldn't mix up a fax machine at the ohel with the igros idea. I found plenty of factual errors that a little of checking would have made him sound OK> Of course that goes against his whole premise in the speech. The CC foundation could have found a better speaker for a tisha b'av speach about "slander gossip and verbal abuse".
If u think it is only Chabad, check this link as well about 1/3 of the way in is his take on the Baal Shem Tov. http://www.col.org.il/pics/inbox/9324304%5F8495709%2Emp3
Hirshel
I really don't understand whats going on but you haven't posted my last two posts which were quite innocent in content.Have I committed some crime that has made me persona non Grata?Do you really want me to come on hands and knees?
Chabad Friend - there is something seriously wrong with his attitude. While disagreements between the Satmar Rav and others were a "difference of opinion between the Sages", acts of terrorism in Satmar are done a by a "fringe minority" that all groups (besides Lubavitch, as we are soon to see) are entitled to, and all the negative in Satmar is far outweighed by the Chesed they do . . . He chooses to attack Lubavitch based on individual encounters and hearsay - besides the healthy dose of lies and distortion. If were to draw a negative conclusion about the dozens of "Litvaks" I'd come in contact with, I'd be derided for my prejudice and assumptions.
The fact that he refers to the Rebbe by his name - with out so much a Rabbi, Rav or Reb in front is insulting . . . the fact that he tries to dissuade his talmidim from having so much as an iota of respect of what would seem to be the agent that brought them closer to Yiddishkiet in the first
To clarify my earlier post:
I don't care about him and he can take his sina and shove it with himself somewhere far and deep.
My problem is with CC foundation using him as a grand lecturer on Tisha B'av and the topic is "slander gossip and verbal abuse". And this is a foundation devoted to spreading shmiras haloshon.
Ronin Hood aheen, Robin Hood aher....If so kosher...let the Rebbes promote it at tishen.....If so kosher...why done hush hush ?
If not kosher...how can we take these Rebbes and Rabbanim seriously knowing that they prefer treif gelt than 'suffering' a small beis medresh and not having their picture in all the yiddish papers ? Are these people so hell bent on corrupting the younger generation ???
They are the ones causing the 'Dwek syndrome'. People like Dwek are respected and given limitless koved by the money hungry rabbanim.
Are our leaders in denial to such an extent ???? Do they think putting pressure on the common man to fund it all is lshem shumayim ?
Try getting a shidduch with a good boy / girl but no money ...a convicted crook with money on the other hand will have no problems....
I bet Rosenbaum will have no problems doing shiduchim for his kids.....
The goyim wonder where yidden get all that silver, fancy cars and clothes etc.... NOW THEY KNOW !!!
In general he seems to belittle Chassidim b'chlal . . .
We got to get wise.....with computers everything is traceable and you can't get away with stuff like the olden days......
Maybe we should promote hard work....
Promoting anything but work has made people soft and most kollel people are so scared of a hard days work they will turn to any alternative, so I guess the morality we teach our kids is that no matter what you learn about being yoshor.....if it means working hard and not having money for everything you want.....
MAYBE THAT IS THE REAL DERECH HATORAH......
The tragedy of Yitz Greenman the BT brainwashed by Aish to be a killer fund-raiser (he should have just worked in Wall Street where he belongs) and his not uncommon holier-than-thou high profile "press release" defenses is that he is so deeply brainwashed by the Aish money-making credo that he he has built his career on not only demolishing the images of his/Aish's perceived "enemies" but it is very well-known that he has demolished the careers of many of his fellow Aish rabbis whenever anyone one of them has shown any inclination to outshine him. Plenty of former and present Aishniks hate his guts, it's no secret!
Just listen to him opine as if he were speaking for the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah (that smartly says NOTHING) which he nominally follows, because he openly and cynically tells people in America that since he spent a half a year in the Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin bais medrash, his "rosh yeshiva" is Rav Aaron Schechter (RAS) (the two of them when they get together gloat about how Rav Noach Weinberg (founder of Aish) was a CBer), when he (RNW) long ago left CB and created his own breed of attack dogs like "Yitz" here and kudos to all those here who can easily see thru Yitz's the attack dog's cynicism, opportunism and his to hell with the frum world attitude, as long as he can use yet another tragedy in Klal Yisroel (that is when he is not creating or participating in a tragedy like a hungry androgynous-like vampire with a smile) as long as he will be able to smooth talk his "secular relatives" by which he only means all those gullible secular Jews who donate money to Aish all of which gets threatened when bad news about the frumme oilem hits the headlines. He should keep his mouth shut, but then again he has a multi-million fundraising operation to protect so who can blame him, right? Wrong!
What we are all failing to do is take a message for ourselves of how we let non torah values permeate our lives...
from how we earn our money...to our appreciation of government (unlike those of our parents who were always thankful for what the US did by taking them in post war), to the way we dress.
Why do all ladies in Boro Park dress the way out of towners do on Shabbos, with full make up and suits costing hundreds of dollars....
The answer to all the above is unfortunately we are no where as frum as we think we are or make ourselves out to be.
Our leaders are keenly aware of this and see that any real criticism sends people running so they focus on the 'easier' inyanim like listening to yiddish musci etc... because at least on those things there is a chance they will be listened to....
It is a siman of yeridas hadoers....and I hope we can reverse the trend or true yiddishket (other than people full time in beis medresh - who have no chance of being financially self sufficient) is lost forever.....
Please someone prove me wrong....
My G-d, Seen It All - the second MP3 is worse then the other! Orlofsky spreads such disgusting slander - it makes one sick! The only drunken orgy going on is what's going on in this mans head . . .
. . . and a gevaldike Am Ha'aretz to boot!
Yitz reminds of the Loshen Horambam on Poiresh min Hatzibur, Veloi Nichnas Betzoroson..Alo Holech Bedarko Keched Migoyai Horetz Ikeuli Ainoi Mehen.. has no chelek in olum habo.
In a time when the whole of klal yisroel including sefardim ashkenazim are in a dilema , you dont jump on a blog in front of kol hagoyim denouncing a big part of Klal Yisroel. Did u ask some Rabbi if you are not helping the Goyai Horetz to get these entraped jews deeper in to their paws. You are paskening dinei nefoshos on tens of families with your stupidity.
Assuming the media paint the Chareidim with a broader brush than they do other distinctive groups, do not the Chareidim do the same? According to Pinchus Lipschutz et cie, all Israeli police engage in brutality, all prison guards were cruel to the “Munchausen mother,” all government social workers lied in wait to ambush her, the entirety of Hadassah Ein Kerem participated in a cabal to destroy this woman and harm Chareidiut. Not only that, but the CW in chareidi circles is that all secular Israelis have a pathological hatred for chareidim. Has the Chareidi press ever once showcased a prominent secular Jew and expressed pride in his accomplishments? Would Chareidim ever acknolwedge people like Jonas Salk, Albert Einstein, Leonard Bernstein, Marc Chagall, Franz Rosenzweig, David Sarnoff (notice I’m not including religious or political leaders in this list) etc. as honored members of the Jewish people? Has the Chareidi press ever presented non-chareidiut in nuanced way at all? I’ve never seen it. Yet Chareidim demand precisely the acknoledgment and respect from non-Chareidim that they are unpreprepared/unwilling/hostile to giving in return.
Anon 3
You are right with your point, but charidem dont claim to be equal, democratized, it all circles around Torah and Yidishkiet, it all depends how Frum was Einstien? Did he know Chochmas hatorah or not, If not then any Bochur that knows 2 mishnas is more choshev then him, this is our view love it or leave it, you have a bechira, But the secular claim to be evenhanded even Eichman or a Arab that just blew up a bus suppose to have a fair trial with no falsyfing paperwork or witnesses
http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c52_a16410/Editorial__Opinion/Gary_Rosenblatt.html
Hirshel
My above post was posted on a different blog site. Apparently someone,unknown to me, cut and pasted it here.Not that I mind, even though it's off issue.
Arthur,
So you are also a "Chareidi basher"?
Whose side are you on?
"Arthur,
So you are also a "Chareidi basher"?
Whose side are you on?"
It depends what your definition of "Chareidi" is.If your talking about those that are self centered,self righteous, egotistical ones who presume that they are the only Jews on this planet and everyone owes them some something at the exclusion of all others, then yes I am a "Chareidi basher".
Arthur,
As you yourself mentioned,
"self centered,self righteous, egotistical ones" I was thinking that it reminded me a lot of Lubavitch:They are very self centered, think they are right and are busy with things they feel are right, no give and take with the rest of the community.
Am I to think that you may even have some constructive critiscm about Lubavitch??
"They are very self centered, think they are right and are busy with things they feel are right, no give and take with the rest of the community"
How did I know that some jerk would come along and take my words out of context, change the wording slightly so that their meaning has changed and tell me that "Lubavitcher are very self centered, think they are right and are busy with things they feel are right"?
So does everyone else.
"no give and take with the rest of the community""
Who's the "community"? The one tenth of one percent (probably even less then that) of the total Jewish population of the world?
There isn't any other group of Jews in the world who give of themselves and care for the other 99.99 percent of Jews in the world as Lubavitch does ,so don't tell me about "give and take".
Arthur
I was getting my hopes up, but I see that not always does wisdom come with age.
You are a Chareidi basher AND proud Lubavitcher.Interesting.
Lubavitcher have been mchutz lemachaneh yirei Hashem for way to long
"Lubavitcher have been mchutz lemachaneh yirei Hashem for way to long"
May I presume that you consider yourself as one who would go under the salutation of "yirai Hashem"?How long have you been one of these "yirai Hashem"?How presumptuous and self aggrandizing.
Oh I forgot to mention that we all can't measure up to the type and level of "wisdom" that you claim to posses.After all not everyone has the "wisdom" and insight to determine who is a "yirai Hashem" as you assume to have.But of course your not a "Chabad basher".
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