Hungarian Yiddish yingel in the late 30s... Probably in Marmures somewhere, maybe Munkacs. The photographer called these children "peasants."
An article that appeared in this week's Gilyon Hishkashrus published by Tzeirei Chabad in E Israel. The article discusses Reb Tzvi Meir Steinmetz, z"l, a Hungarian Yid who joined Lubavitch yet maintained a strong ongoing connection with many of the Hungarian Rabbonim. He would report back to the Rebbe for ,הוראות and would get all kinds of very interesting answers. Obviously this speaks to my heart and it piqued the interest of many of my Hungarian landsleit who also joined Lubavitch. I suggest that those of who can should read the whole, long megilleh, even if you'll be spitting blood. There will be times where some of you will say that it's "Fantazyes," as some have said already when shown the piece, simply because it doesn't fit your agenda. It allows for Koved to be bestowed upon those who you may disagree with... There may be times when you read this when you might laugh and say: "See how hard he tries to be accepted, the poor guy." Just read it. There's a lot to say but little time these days. Every anecdote can be dissected ten ways to Sunday, but time does not allow for it. And remember; Morgen nacht iz Tishe Bov...
See the PDF Here
97 comments:
Hirshel,
I like the most where the Sigeter said that he also had a problem with a attorney that arrived Yom Tov to his hakofes in his shul in BP.
I heard from my father that by the old Skwerer they used to give Aliyas to the torah for evryone that was in shul Simchas Torah even for the tourists that arrived with the tour buses in middle of Yom Tov,(that was still happening when I was a kid). Offical reason was based on a Meor Einiem that every Jew has a ois in the torah in any shape or form.I think the actor Hill became a Baal Teshuva from a shimchas torah in Skwer.
The Satmar Rebbe was a closet Lubavicher....he was just scared his beard would be torn out so he didn't tell anyone !
Strange how he says he knew the Satmer Rebbe (Sigeter) for 45 years but then stated incorrectly that he was a son of the KYT and a brother of the Atzei Chaim, when he was the son of the Atzei Chaim....
Hirshel . הרב צבי מאיר שטיינמץ is fictitious name in a fictitious correspondence to a Fictitious Fuhrer and laufer is an expert in creating such "Fantasizes,"
Fatyzes
Mr.Stienmetz was a person from Debrecen,son in law of Eisenberg big sanzer and shinever chasidim,A kluger yid a talmid chochom, he knew exactly the interlander chevra and he knew the Eitzei chaim,
can you get me 1 lie that Laufer wrote thru all his writing career
Glantz
If you cant read a little loshen hakodesh,go back to Reb Moshe Efroims cheider, there is no trife Ivrit in all of Stiemmetz's letters. He writes a Memala mokum of the Aitzei Chaim and grandson of Kedushas Yom Tov, then he writes that the Atzei chaim was a brother of Horav Misatmer(meaning the Veyoel Moshe)that was still alive in 76
Fantzyes
Maybe CH had a "Fictitious Fuhrer" But Willi had for sure the Real Fuhrer with real brown shirts, with a book close to the M... K...
Everything can be authentic, the same anything can be a fantasy or a forgery.
If we want to proof this authintic you should post the original letter. Does anyone have it? Does Lubavitch Archives have these letters?
If we cannot see the original than this isn't anythinbg better than Bloch's forgery of Letters against Zinonism (which happened to be financed by Satmar).
"but time does not allow for it. And remember; Morgen nacht iz Tishe Bov"
This has never stopped you.
Erev Tisho Beov I'm telling you that you are a menuvel and mushchas.
You want to say that you are an "onus"?That you write and promote sheker vechozov and a zilzul betalmidei chachomim because you just need to be accepted?
MAYBE actually probably.So?
Besides for everything, in my eyes, you have sullied Lubavitch so badly that I have to force myself to focus on the fact that there ARE good people in Lubavitch and not everybody is like you or your many Lubavitcher posters full of hate and kaltkait to anything non Lubavitch.
I'm not talking to you about teshuva,I don't think you are shayach to teshuva, you still think you are doing a mitzva.The only reason you mention Tisho Beov is because it means you are busy, nothing to do with causing sinas yisroel.
Its a typed letters from Mr. Stienmetz.It was not handwritten,anyway whoever has a vested interest not to believe will deny it anyway, by claiming that Steinmetz was a novelist so whats the point off providing the proof
Anon,
I see it as a act of clearing the air, that the Rabonim were not so militant as the masses.Its important to reduce as much sinas chinum possible.
I don't understand what's going on here. Rabbi Krinsky decided that every private letter somebody wrote to the Lubavitcher Rebbe can be published?! Maybe Rabbi Steinmetz didn't want these writing being made public?
This is great stuff.
It is a sod far ganz Brod that "behaltanerheit" all the Hunky Rabbonim didn't believe one word that Satmar was preaching. Here you have the evidence. Great post.
Anon,
These are copies of letters that he kept for himself, his family had it for years, please don't get Krinskys name involved here.
After taking over the Yeshiva world , the Hungarians by sheer numbers also wish to "capture" Lubavitch.
The rebbe said in a Farbrengung in connection with the events of Entebee and the CRC leadership Lo mehem and more importantly velo meyhomonom. The rebbe wanted nothing to do with the so called gedolim of that sector and even with their baalhabatim (sure when the Rebbe grew old and was giving out money they suddenly appeared to get a dollar and satisfy their primative need to kiss the hands of a true zaddik not to found in their own turf)., because of their vicious hatred of fellow Jews and Eretz israel and Medinas Israel (Don't bother to tell me that the Rebbe was not a Zionist, gadal meZionist Shmo).
And this behavior continues just look at the letter the crooked mayor of KJ sent to the PRESIDENT of the US about sanctions against Israeli settlements. Is this Messirah or what do you call it Das Torah or maybe a Reynem Daas Torah !Now I wonder what the MDA of KJ says about that letter ?Alas there is no Lubavitcher rebbe to put RAT and his cronies in their proper place.
I heard somehting fascinating from a prominent MO type (much frumer) leader he said that a Satmarer middle aged Bikur Cholim female volunteer told him while he was in the hospital "yes we(Satmar) do chessed but even so we have no Ahvath Israel . I think one needs to ponder this statemetn but if you think about it you will see that it expresses a certain truth about Satmar and its allies. Certainly thye have nothing to do with Beshtian Chassiduth as practiced by Chabad, Rozhin, Chernobel, Slonim,Karlin Breslov, and the Polsih schools.
The teilung may have saved Hungarian Orthodoxy , but as they say in ur lands "der billet is geven a tayerer".
Schneur
I am shocked that you as a historian should fall prey to the Hungarian claim that the Tielung was a win win for the Hungarian jewry, only if you claim that everyone that is not orthodox is a goi,eventough he was yesterday your chavrusa in Pressburgh or in Chust.(as the famous story of Bar Ilan In Pest) the orthodox was a mere 18 % of the total jewry and the rest was all assimilated eventualy. I am not saying they were not forced in doing it,but its not as glorious as they portray it.Where is the success when a city as Budapest was 95 % Frie? Are they not original children of fine jewish homes?
Tzig
Take care and do what you are supposed to do.
Shnier!your rebbe was a crony to shazar and the satmer rebbe was a crony of hashem who said in the torah that His punishment for sins is to be exiled without a government in EY, and he also told us through the Neviem that he will redeem us Via meshiach, your rebbe made fun of Gulles made a circus of meshiach but he glorified those who falsefied the Geula,
no wonder he needs such false correspondence to back up his pipe dream only such YOYOs like you and hershel believe such non sense what this so called Steinmetz writes
Snag Jr.
you're leaving?
A choshive satmer yungerman told me that the difference between satmer and lubavitch is that satmer does chessed because it's a mitzva and lubavitch does chesed because of ahavas yisroel.
Schneur,
Please dont put the Rebbe in the box of smallmindess hungarian, Polish, Russian ans Sephardic,in matter of fact he loved Hungarian Seforim as the Marshag, Shem Mishimon etc..
"I heard somehting fascinating from a prominent MO type (much frumer) leader he said that a Satmarer middle aged Bikur Cholim female volunteer told him while he was in the hospital "yes we(Satmar) do chessed but even so we have no Ahvath Israel"
Schneour I"m getting worried:You have decided that Satmar has no Ahavas Yisroel, based on what ONE lady said??
Let me mention my anecdote:R'Yakov Spivak someone you could a MO type but frummer said on his radio program that when he was in hospital it was the Satmar Bikur Cholim that helped him out a lot and therefore out of gratitude he will not speak against Satmar.
Satmar is a community full of Jews with wonderful ahavas yisroel.Satmar is also a kehilla with a radical approach against Zionism.Satmar is also the largest chasidic group by far, therefore you will find all kinds of individuals.
Have an easy fast.
Anon,
Ask your choshiver friend is Ahavas yisroel a man made mitzva, invented in the headquarters of 770? or a mitzvas Ese Deorasoi, more mefurash then the Gimel Sheevouis
"the difference between satmer and lubavitch is that satmer does chessed because it's a mitzva and lubavitch does chesed because of ahavas yisroel."
Don't know if what the rabbi said is true,but the Talmuds view of someone who performs a mitzva because the MUST as opposed to someone who Volunteers is that the person who does because he MUST is greater
Anon,
Who owed more for the zionists the Satmer Rebbe that was saved by the Zionists? or the Lubavitcher Rebbe that maybe used Shazar to get Lubavich Institutions in Eretz hakdoshe, to get the funds from the government, that they are paying taxes to.
So who is the Cronie exactly?
Anon 2;57
Do you agree with the idiotic letter of the Mayor Tipesh of KJ ?
is he a smaller mossur then Dweck? he is hurting 100 of thousands of jews their finance and their health? most of these jews are shomrie torah umitzvois as holy as the bnie yoel just with a different yarmulke with no rebini taam underwear.
if you agree with his letter then please dont sell me Satmar Ahavas Yisroel
I dont understand why the Satmars are so excited, you have to face it, the Sigeter Rov was no Kanoi period. Even his father that was a big Charif and knew big part of Shas baal peh, bor sid shein meabed tipah, was also not a kanoi. Wasnt liberal chas vesholem you will see his signature on all hungarian Kol Korah, but he had no fire in his belly.He was not obssesed on this anti stuff 24/7
to hate another Jew for for waiting for meshiach is not considered ahavas yisroel
to feed the sick even the are zionist is an act of kindness not ahavas yisroel
a crony is the one who takes money from those who don't wait for meshiach and uses some of the funds to
promote a TEILUNG (lo mehem Vlo Mehomunom)from those who wait for meshiach to take us out from Gulles
Rabbi Steinmetz the writer of these letters was a famous poet under the name Tzvi Yair.
See all about him here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvi_Yair
and here:
http://zviyair.com/
Heis surely not fictious.
Is was a son in law in Debrecen but grew up in Siget, so he the Sigeter family personally, as he also writes in these letters.
Rabbi TM Steinmetz I believe is the grandfather of Rabbi Berl Lazar, cheif rabbi of Russia.
yes, R Moshe Lazr is his eydem
Crony Definition
which Dictionary are you refering to? Webster? What year?
so he is also the grandfather of Rebbetzin Oberlander of Budapest.
So what is fictious here?!
I still believe that if we want to proof that these letters are not false let us see the originals!
These half-quotes in the article don't give a good impression. What did this Laufer guy omit? Did he say something bad about Chabad there?
We want originals!
Hershl, just call R. Lazar's office, he will send them.
I should call? before or after the Taynis?
So
What are we to believe that in fact everyone was a secret admirer of the Rebbe?
So what was the machlokes about?
Silly
Silly
Silly
If you are the follower of a Rov you don't need the whole world to be his chosid.
This need to twist the truth is immature and will only get you into Fools Paradise.
I remember reading Sorei Hameioh who had the Mizrachi/Zionist agenda and turned every rov into a Mizrachi supporter
After rereading these letters I cannot see how they can be falsified. How would a KfarChabad farmer know all the little details like the pain of the Berach Moshe after his father died?! Anybody that didn't grow up there and see it, never heard about it. I don't think that the big biography of the Berach Moshe will write anything about it either. I guess this Steinmetz guy really knew what he was talking about.
Lazar is a Hungarian born in Vienna
His sisters belong to Satmar.
Hungarians are taking over the world (unfortunately)
so Steinmetz the fiction writer write letters to The fictitious Fuhrer that every one agrees with Him, that even the other camp are closet admirer's
or was it Laufer who created more fiction to a fictitious character
it seems only the Hungarians have talent. I understand Schneur is getting dizzy but he has to face the music
Reading the websites that someone posted above it really seems like this Steinmetz was a very colorful guy. How does a Galanter talmid end up writing hebrew poetry, and then become a Chabad chsid... I guess this shows how certain neshomos were destained to end up in chabad...
If you take a real document and you write 10 ten times the word fictious does it stop being authentic?
What is fictious is these letters?
Think about it for a second, this was meant as a private letter, never intended to be published, why write anything but facts?
The letters are true, but it's Steinmetzs take.Get it.He visited his pre-war friends and reported back.
He heard what he wanted to hear and reported back the same.
Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with a guy "reporting back" personal conversations with friends?
Reminds me of the K.G.B
I know that Tzig is not bothered by this
I see Stienmetz reporting facts that you can see the hidden barrier that these rabonim had regarding Chabad, he isnt sugarcoating anything
Shneurs bringing here to this post the letter from the mayor of KJ to Obama proves that what Steinmetz writes about the Berach Moshe is not true,further more it shows that even his son the Current rebbe was not influenced by Lubavitcher Zionist propaganda
what these letters are meant to be is to brainwash the public that the Lubavitcher rebbe was not considered by the opposition a Zionist puppet
and the writer used public knowledge blended with outright lies to make it authentic, and now hershel is feeding us that he joined an authentic group
The Beirech Moshe was not made of Kanoish clay, I remember his first move into the real kind aggressive bashing of Belz, how picked up he got by the Willi masses, even Lietner started to admire him, his polls zoomed from zero to 90 in a few weeks,he threw some Red Meat and the Satmarer chassidim realized they have a Rebbe, he got Iber Neshoma from Reb Yoel,so he went on and on to other issues, to get the Kvitel Business rolling.
As we get closer to shkia on a day that mourns the destruction of both Botei Mikdosh, I see that we have a menuval and mushchas trying again to maamid Tseilem in the Hechol.
The Tseilem was placed by a Jew, a Nosi in fact Menashe melech on shiva osor beTammuz.
Now we have another story with a Getschkeh being placed in the heart of Judaism.
Tmeyeim, go.Go in alleh ruchos.Leave and be metamtem alleh goyim
Authentic,
if your brain is washed from your own pilpul then u can have it,
Authentic,
I see you don't get it.
This letter wasn't menat to be anythingat all.
It was menat to be a private letter, that the writer never dreamed of printing it.
So who was he trying to fool?!
BTW, there is no public knowledge here, what he shows is very private knowledge that I doubt you knew at all!
Anon440
Why is this guy "reporting back"
Why is he repeating private conversations?
James Bond? K.G.B? Stam a Hungarian.
Would you be bothered if an old friend would hit you up for conversation and relay that back to the big boss?
I see most readers where shocked about the Berach Moshe comments, I think that the Michas Yitzchak comments might be even more important. After all he was a real big Posek, and his opinion mattered more than - bimchila - the Berach Moshe's.
It seems like he never really got into the Lubavitch hating stuff.
Ok,Lubavitchers.We got it.Every one loved your rebbe and his shitos.Anybody who did not doesn't count.
Can you now go back to the regular "snag bashing" programming?
Thank you
I'm just reading some of the hiskashres and was really surprised at this ""גם הרב משה טייטלבוים [=כיום האדמו"ר מסאטמער] אמר לי באמת ואמונה, כי הוא מחסידי כ"ק אד"ש ומעריך את פעולותיו, וכי הפציר בדודו [=מו"ה יואל טיילבוים בעל 'ויואל משה'] לשיתוף פעולה בחיזוק עניני היהדות עם ליובאוויטש, וכי 'אנטבה' היה בה משום 'רווח והצלה' הגם שהיו על-ידי הציונים, הנה עכשיו...".
I don't know....
I was bothered by the beginning and ending of the letters ההכרח" יאלצני לבוא לפני כסא קדשו
and end
"עבדו המבקש סליחתו, אם אמרתי דבר שלא כרצונו ח"ו,
"KISEI kodshoi"?? "Avdoi"
Aren't these praises reserved for Hashem?
Anon,
Selling the Chabad shito and its Rebbe is not patented by Chabad. The Satmar movement between all the Tietelbaum brothers and sisters have 3 weekly newspapers propagating the Satmar Rebbe and his shito, how he was recognised by everyone universaly, I dont see why its not considered Brainwashing the masses? one newspaper only has a columm for 20 odd years, a weekly columm Dem Rebins Kimen Kien Amerika, and they claim to be indepedent. I dont think the little magazine Hiskashrus competes with these 3 mega PR machine.
"Ok,Lubavitchers.We got it.Every one loved your rebbe and his shitos.Anybody who did not doesn't count.
Can you now go back to the regular "snag bashing" programming?
Thank you"
How ironic and disingenuous. Your bashing Lubavitch in your post yet you accuse Lubavitch of "snag bashing".You guys are all the same.
Anon
Which anon are you talking to?
Yourself?
Anon,
Oi Vey, reb tzvi mier a oved avoida zora, call Dr berger that you found a nu idol worhiper, and he should call all the seminars they should ban the poetry books of Tvi Yair.
You idiot, signing Eved was common in all kind of letters written to gedolie yisroel even in Sanz and Siget that had the pure emunah not as the andere...
Eved lovdei Hashem was the loshon, not your slave
Tzig,
I hope you have an easy fast.You don't deserve kapures avoines on this world
anon 7:30
that was very nice of you.
Hey! I thought only Tzaddikim get Kaporas Avonos on this world. Are you saying that I'll get it in Yenner Velt?
A strange problem came up, this is like KGB tactic, sending a friend and "reporting back". Maybe even worse this is like sending Solomon Dwek to gather the information.
But what was the purpose here of "reporting back"? Did the Rebbe blackmail the Rabbonim with this info? All he did was that he read the letter and knew that not like the official Satmar or Litvish terror version, deep down all (or at least most) Gedolei Yisroel agree with his teachings.
I think this served a very noble purpose.
Oh Tzig, you can take the magyar out of the goulash but you can't take the goulash out of the magyar :-) You put a dash between the yud and heh whereas the article you linked to by Chabad didn't. You thing "hungarian" has some kedusha when it's written b'loshon kodesh :-?
Didnt the satmar rov (Reb Yoel)shmooze for hours everyday with his people regarding other Rebbes?,there are many tapes circulating that they are embarrased to publicize. Alot of the shmoozing was in the morning before Shachris with the Talis on one shoulder. It was probably Hoieche Inyonim.
I still don't understand: Why did Lubavitcher rebbe need "reporting back" to him, did Reb Aron or the Satmar Rav have back reporting to him? Something just doesn't make sense to me.
I dont know reb aron but definitly the Satmer Rov, he was a newshound.
"All he did was that he read the letter and knew that not like the official Satmar or Litvish terror version, deep down all (or at least most) Gedolei Yisroel agree with his teachings."
Lubavitcher never cease to amaze me!
So deep down all Gedolei Yisroel agreed with the Rebbes teachings??
Good stuff your are smokin'
you better not be checking your blog today
Isaac B
I saw your comment this morning, when it was already not TB for you in Oz, but I laughed so hard I was afraid if I responded you'd see that I had Simcha on TB. Then all the haters would go ballistic.
Can't you save this rhetoric for a different day. v'dal: vdas linuven nakel, veday limavin,
Just to get all u lovely snags more nervous.
At a wedding a number of years ago, a lubavitcher started a shmuz with R' Gifter Z"L. They got around to talking about various rebbes of that time. The lubab asked him about the kloizenberger:
"Er ken a possuk chumash mit rashi"
The Satmer (R' Yoilish)
"Er ken a pur medroshim"
The Bobover "Stam an am ho-oretz"
The Lubavitcher "Shas ofen oigen and if u quote me I'll deny it"
I heard this first-hand from someone who heard the exchange.
I saw lately that Reb Mordechai Gifter was a rov in a nussach hoari shul in his early years, did I dream it?
but for sure there is a answer for him in Igrois Kodesh vol page 390, regarding a questioned he asked the Rebbe,
. "Then all the haters would go ballistic."
So sayeth the big chosid of the big ohev yisroel on TB.
Nice.
"I heard this first-hand from someone who heard the exchange."
Of course I'm going to trust an anonymous poster on a rag-a-blog who is the epitomy of subjective.'Course I do!
"Just to get all u lovely snags more nervous."
Another Lubavitcher who was to busy schmoozing/sleeping to say kinnos
"It's not minhag Chabad"
What is Tisho Beov about??
Throwing beralach,gossiping and making fun of 'Snags.
Igrois Kodesh vol page 390
===vol. 12
anonymous
1) where's that "quote" from?
2) who says Kinos at 5 in the afternoon?
3) I see that 9Av taught you nothing, Kinos or not...
"3) I see that 9Av taught you nothing, Kinos or not..."
Ah
Big ohev yisroel
Chasida ,sheosoh chesed in chavroiseho.Still treif chazer.
Chasida, sheosoh chesed in chavroiseho. Still treif chazer.
In? עם הארץ
I love these 7th Grade Mussar Toirelech. They remind me, of 7th Grade!
I am not satmar but I completely agree with the KJ mayor's letter. those that bash every us government for not being as zionistic as jabatinski are causing a backlash of anti-semitism and are dangerous extremists. I remember when Bush became president. the zionist lobby was incensed that there were no jews on the cabinet. the one nechama was the heimishe yiddish speaking goy, colin powell. within a few months, he had been labeled an anti-semite for not being as hawkish as benny begin. eventually rice was also labeled anti-israel. now, clinton, obama, mitchell, emanual...no one will ever be pro-israel enough for you! I don't know if you noticed but the israeli press and politicians have supported an end to settlements and a two state solution for years, but the us government must remain hawkish zionist or be condemned as anti-semitic. get over your silly state already! can't you tell it's over!
also, i was quite surprised to see some nasty hungarian bashing and throwing around of old stereotypes by lubabitchers, who claim to love all jews equally. hmmm...
Anonymous said...
"Just to get all u lovely snags more nervous."
Hey I called u lovely. I do love everyone, except the extreme haters which are B"H very few. BTW, I got on the net after chatzos.
Tomorrow 9-10 is a non Loshon Harah hour. It will have a din, klapay blogging, like tisha b'av before Chatzos
Anyone who wants to know which Rebbes were the biggest talmidei chachamin - it was always the Gerrer Rebbes.
Reagarding ahavas yisrael....I used to learn in Lubavich but when I didn't turn out a Lubavicher, the menahel and rabbeim won't talk to me...they even called me a failure to my friends...
Is that ahavas yisrael ??
Don't tell me it is an isolated incident. I can quote hundred from various people.
The good message of AHAVAS YISRAEL = GOOD PR that is it....
Please tell me where people were so sure that the Bobover Rebbe was an Am Haaretz.
Do people know he was a rav and dayan for 5 years before the war, paskening in all chelkei shulchan aruch ?
Who farhert him ?
Did any Rebbes come out of a meeting saying he didn't know his stuff ???
Who started the lies about ECC writing his divrei torah (then why were they so similar in style and content before ECC came to Bobov)?
The ones spreading the lies were:
- Klausenburg, because he was most matzliach from all the tzanzer einiklach in rebuilding (are the Kalusenburgers of today so much more oisgearbet then the Bobovers?)
- Chabad who cursed him out as a means of self promotion and agrandisement when they were the only ones to stay in Crown Heights (if one must stay...why isn't chabad still based in Russia)
- Satmar like groups, because he refused to play along with their hate-filled anti-zionist power grabbing stunts (like the ones of the Eida Chareidis in Yerushalayim of today).
CAN ANYONE PROVE ANY OF THESE POINTS WRONG ????
Seen it all,
How do you define "hater"?
The Tzig claims as his reason for blogging "the Chabad bashing so prevalent in the blogosphere"
So are the "haters" many or few?
Is Lubavitch bashing prevalent or not?
Now another question:On Lubavitch websites, what is the general attitude,response by the bloggers and by the commenters to Non Lubavitch in general and SPECIFICALLY the Litvishe Olom Hayeshivos.
Bear in mind, when I say Lubavitch sites I do not refer to Chabad.org and the like, which is very careful about what they write for obvious reasons.
When Mayor of New York, Ed Koch used to come to Bobov for hakufes each year....
Why there ??? He had no family roots or connection and it wasn't the biggest voting block then ???
Reb Shlomo T'zl was known in New York to be the biggest ohev yisrael of all the Rebbes and devarim sheyotzim min halev nichnasim el halev.....
Everyone likes to bash Bobov because they know in their heart they are every bit as Balabatish as the claim the Bobovers to be....
anon
The onus is on you to prove that he knew anything. The pashtus is that he didn't know from any machlokesyin, even Ababye and Ruvuh....
Ask Reb Chaim Kanievsky, why his father the Steipler T'zl subscribed to Kerem Shloime as did other prominent rabbanim with no obvious Bobover link.
They liked to bash him because he had a koach and brought about a changed in people people from mechalel shabbess to emesdike chassidishe, a radical change that no other post war Rebbe achieved from the humble beginings of not having a minyan in 1950...
Tell me the Chabad Rebbe could have the following he did if he wore the chabad levush and demanded the chassidishe lifestyle of pre war chabad ?
Der said...
anon
The onus is on you to prove that he knew anything. The pashtus is that he didn't know from any machlokesyin, even Ababye and Ruvuh....
Friday, July 31, 2009 12:02:00
Guys, my post quoting R' Gifter was about his opinion about various leaders an b'ikar about the Rebbe. I did not have any intention of maligning the bobover or anyone else. I never farherred him, met him once and can say he was a true old-world gentleman. His relationship with chabad was very cold for various reasons, and it's no secret that they never liked lubavitch in bobov. Wolpe tried to whitewash it in his sefer shemen soson and failed miserably. I worked with a farbrente bobover and he told me flat out that bobov does not like lubavitch period.
Today, since they're so involved in their machlokes, which is BTW the most farbrente one in chareidi circles today, the sina to chabad is non-issue.
schneur; when did the rebbe say lomayhem and lo mayhamonom
Anyone who wants to know which Rebbes were the biggest talmidei chachamin - it was always the Gerrer Rebbes.AND GUESS WHO WAS PRO THE REBBE TO THE EXTENT WHERE I HEARD HE TOLD HARAV SHACH ZATZAL "DI ZORG VEGEN DANAH (MISNAGDIM) ICH VEL ZICH ZORGEN VEGEN MAINAH(CHASSIDIM)"
moshe zev said...
schneur; when did the rebbe say lomayhem and lo mayhamonom
It was regarding satmer and i think it was 5737. It may have been 5743 during the beard shavings period, but I think in was during the entebbe, mitzva tank stonings, etc. which would pu it in 5737.
Let the Rebbe and Hashem worry about what he said. What is done is done.
Adding to it doesn't help anything.
moshe zev,
the rebbe never said lo mehem velo mehemonom so just "scrub" the quote that schneur says her knows
Anon,
nobody in Chabad knows that Bobov exsist bichlal,
Here's a "Lo meihem V'Lo Meihemonom" source:
http://otzar770.com/library/display_page.asp?nPageNumber=1982&ilSC=40&nBookId=24&cPartLetter=B
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