Thursday, July 9, 2009

Looking beyond Greater Hungary (Part IV)



In our last discussion about the young Tzig's life we discussed how he became very disenfranchised with the new tone that he saw in Spinka. Times were changing and so were the people he was to share the Beis Medrish with. So he moved on to a more neutral yeshivah, where he thought he could settle in for years of serious learning. Also at that time; since he was growing older, the Tzig began to realize that the current approach to serving G-d, the one he was seeing amongst his peers, was not one that "spoke to him," and he began to explore other avenues. Please read Part III, linked to above, for a refresher.

This is not an attack on the personnel at Spinka, nor do I blame anybody in particular for the changes; that's just the way it happened there. Nobody owed me anything. There was no need for them to adapt to me. The clientele changed there just like in many other Yeshivos. Places like Munkacs, Vien, Ch'san Sofer, and even Yagdil Torah, where the Poylishe/Flatbush Gerrer was not as welcome anymore, underwent similar changes. The Chassidim moved in and the "Pareve" left in droves. The whole frum world shifted heavily to the right, and I felt very uncomfortable with some of the changes; it made me feel very much out of sorts. There often is that sense among children that the Yeshivos they attend are "MORE" than what they are. Among children and their parents, that is. Meaning, they feel as if the school is way too frum for them, or a bit too frum, but they attend the school so that the watered down version is still above what they would do on their own. Let me explain this in layman's terms, so that even the daftest among us can understand this:

Let's say you have a boy who goes to a Mesivta where he must wear white shirts. This bachur comes from a family where white shirts are not the norm. His father doesn't wear them during the week, he wears non-white shirts on Sundays and during the summer, and sometimes when he comes from school he'll go and change. That doesn't mean that he's not a good, frum bachur, it's just that he doesn't think that he needs to be in white shirt all the time. Now, let's say this bachur, who really does everything he needs to, was told by the Hanholoh that if they ever caught him not wearing a white shirt that they would throw him out of the Yeshivah, what do you think he would do? He may follow the rules to begin with, but ultimately he may begin to look for another Yeshivah. This was not the case with me, necessarily, but the point is the same. When the changes come to a school you attend, and you're just not comfortable with them, and you don't see yourself making all those changes, then you KNOW it's time to move on. If I'm repeating myself here, or if I made those points last time, I apologize.

So, where does a kid from Boro Park, Chasidish Geshtimt but with no true allegiance to any particular group, never wore a tie but no bekishe either, spoke Yiddish mostly, but could read and speak English with the best of them go? To another Yeshivah of a dying breed, of course! Yeshivah Ch'san Sofer in Boro Park, a jump, hop and a skip from home. There too the old Oberlandishe type was almost on his way out, but there were still enough there, and there were also guys who considered themselves full-fledged Yeshivish too. This was something I was really never exposed to; serious learners who spoke English, wore casual clothes in the summer and played sports mit a geshmak, basketball too! Here I was the Chassidishe one whereas before I was the less Chassidish one because I wore a short jacket, albeit one bought at a Chassidishe (like G&G Clothing) store. This was Mesivta; in the "Beis Medrish" most of the bachurim were far more Chassidish, since the old type of bachur had long since left YCS. That's where the decline of Chasam/Ch'san Sofer heritage was really felt. Yes, the Rov was still at the helm, but they had long since switched to Nusach Sefard, and a hard right turn had been made several years before. Not like Nitra, but hard right nevertheless.

More later, iy"H. ( I promise not to make you wait very long this time.)

18 comments:

circusfan said...

tzig im loving the quantity and the quality of the posts recently,keep it up! Just so you know your blog has lots of fans out here in the ihr hatorah,and you provide much fodder for mikvah and coffe room shmoozin thanx.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

glad to hear it, circusfan!

Thanks!

Disfunctionally said...

By the goyim, they look at themselves as overall good or overall bad. They ask themsleves if they did more bad than good. Similarly, amongst the kat, they think spending sometime performing deeds to others, would absolve them from learning and growing in avaydeh. This is part of the Rebbe's legacy and this is why they would rather move to yehupitz where a mitzvah a day paves the way, than live amongst frum Jews who are constantly growing and there is a push for excellence.

yom tov in der vochen said...

Tzig,
You used to wear a shtoffeneh hit or kneitsch?
Not important per se, just to understand the context

Anonymous said...

Big part of the Spinker problem his is oldest son that is influenced by the godul hador Lietner Zya,the extreme of the crop in yahadus, he had a Rebbe that felt closer to Arafat then to a jew like the Beis Yisroel, Imrie chaim, Aron Tietelbaum, smart guy but screwed up to the brim, baal teshuva mentality.His father the Rebbe is the opposite type he loves every yid even a nice baal batish yungerman that can have a shiur every day eventough he wears a polo shirt.By this crisis he is starting to feel the heat since these kind of yungerliet were isolated they are not willing to help and he his left with a empty bag.Unless hamas will arrange some funds as they did for Moshe Hirsch from the Yudenrat.

Anonymous said...

Tzig can you explain the chomer Issur of the 4 slice yarmulke vs. the 6 slice. This is usualy 1 of the first items to be enforced when a cheder weers right wing.

yehupitz said...

Keep it up. Not only this post, but the posting of the last few days too.

Blitos said...

http://matzav.com/the-novardhok-paradox/#more-11750

ich hob nit gavvost az si geven aza shtarker koch in novrardhok

anon3 said...

"By the goyim, they look at themselves as overall good or overall bad. They ask themsleves if they did more bad than good. Similarly, amongst the kat, they think spending sometime performing deeds to others, would absolve them from learning and growing in avaydeh. This is part of the Rebbe's legacy and this is why they would rather move to yehupitz where a mitzvah a day paves the way, than live amongst frum Jews who are constantly growing and there is a push for excellence."
What is the relevance of your "masterly" "intelligent" "in sightly" post to that which Tzig wrote?If you don't like the "kat", as you call it so "elegantly", then crawl back into your hole in the wall and relate to your fellow rodents.
You apparently have nothing better to do during the three weeks with your narrow minded, bigoted mind then writing hateful shmutz against other Yidden.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I heard and saw the cover the the CD that Shafran quotes. I need to get my hands on it.

Disfunctionally said...

anon3

Reminds me of a certain historian who wrote a book about mishechey sheker. He omitted an obvious one, yet someone spread slander about him and called him a maskil. He went to a great man in the city of Torah (Not Maran) who told him that he should remember the thief with his firey hat. Dihaynu, find out if the slanderer is a member of a certain subgroup in Judaism and erronsously thinks that he is being pointed out because he has a guilty conscience.
In the spirit of the three weeks, I am happy that you stick up for a non-Lubavitch group that you though I was attacking. I am impressed.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

It's questions like the one about the yarmulkes that make me proud to be an "mo ignoramus." I don't have to deal with that shtus anymore.

Of course since this blog is run by the Torah-true I'd expect more divrei torah and less decades old mikveh gossip.

kurkevan said...

Re: the Novardoker niggunim, see http://www.avakesh.com/2009/06/novhardoker-niggunim.html

anon3 said...

Disfunctionally
You said "This is part of the Rebbe's legacy and this is why they would rather move to yehupitz where a mitzvah a day paves the way, than live amongst frum Jews who are constantly growing and there is a push for excellence"
In view of the above do you actually assume that we will believe that your talking about a"non Lubavitcher group" when you speak about the so called "Kat"?
If you do then your truly "dysfunctional".Go pedal the Brooklyn bridge else ware.

Moish said...

Disfuncutionally

calling Bamberger an historian is funny. LOL funny.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yom tov in der vochen:

I wore a "krach/Aroyfgeboygene hit"

anon3 said...

"In the spirit of the three weeks, I am happy that you stick up for a non-Lubavitch group that you though I was attacking. I am impressed"
"This is part of the Rebbe's legacy and this is why they would rather move to yehupitz where a mitzvah a day paves the way, than live amongst frum Jews who are constantly growing and there is a push for excellence."
Am I to assume that the second paragraph is referring perhaps to Reb Yoilesh and his Chassidim and not The Lubavitcher Rebbe and his Chassidim? Did I miss something somewhere or are you attemting to sell me the Brooklyn bridge?

AK said...

Tzig - Keep these posts coming. They are the best part of the blog.

Can you help us out a little by giving an idea of what years we are talking about. Don't need an exact year, but for reference some sort of time period.

My guess is you are talking about the late 80's/early 90's for your mesivta years?