Friday, May 9, 2008

You're Never Far From Sin -----

----- At least according to out Skverrer brothers and sisters, G-d bless their pure little hearts! I wish I knew why they thought this was a burning issue that needed to be taken care of immediately. Why they think that a time of danger, when people are busy saving lives, that they think of aveiros. Does it stem from an increased sense of kedushah? I doubt it, really I do. Unless there was an actual incident that made them do this it's all a bunch of Chassidim Shoytim in my humble opinion. It reminds me of a recent obituary where they mentioned the Tznius of certain Rebbetzin who walked to the Hatzoloh ambulance after suffering an aneurysm because she didn't want the Hatzoloh men to carry her ON A STRETCHER. Are we supposed to learn a lesson from that kind of behavior? are our daughters and wives also supposed to act like that? The following are copies of a weekly פנימי publication that Skver prints, where all of the Rebbe's moves and conversations are published. Those of you in Chabad may remember the Beis Chayenu of yesteryear; this is very close to it.


The Skverrer Rebbe addresses the members of the newly-founded Hatzoloh of New Square, telling them what a great zechus they have, and how great the Mitzvah they have is. Hakoras HaTov etc.


Rochniyus, Gashmius, Me'or Eynaim. Nothing extraordinary here, UNTIL he begins to speak about the women they've accepted and trained in the Hatzoloh of Skver, and the great To'eles that'll come from women Hatzoloh members....


The Skverrer Rebbe says - and seemingly has no problem with it - that he knows of women that refrain from calling Hatzoloh because they know that males will respond to the call. We have all kinds of Syogim and "Mishmeres'en" that others don't have and don't understand, so our own Hatzoloh division is a great idea....

46 comments:

Hana Levi Julian said...

Actually, having women as Hatzoloh members is a very good thing. It is very uncomfortable for a Chassidische woman to be forced to deal with men when she is in the middle of labor, for example. If Skverrer has had the sense to add women to their Hatzoloh force, kudos to them! I wish the rest of the Chassidische velt would have as much sense...........

berl, crown heights said...

(I am not even going to comment on the obvious health risks involved in insisting that only women can take care of sick women.)

So let's see:
Women in Skver aren't allowed to drive. That means that these hatzolo women will be going on calls in the middle of the night with men-drivers, and that's "extra holy"... But men going on calls for sick women is somehow "less holy"...
Got it.

Another pearl of wisdom: "It is well intentioned, so it must be a good thing and an will be successful"... Yep, that's what history teaches us, if anything at all...

איך האף נאר אז אנדערע אידן וועלן דאס ניט נאכפאלגן

Shmeryl said...

How does the Skvere answer Sotah 21b?

Anonymous said...

Poor Hershel! He realized that Chaba'd is attacked and the world hasn't made a sound! (Some, like VIN even patted Mishpacha on the back.)
So he is searching for some action from other 'kreisen' to deflect attention from the beating that Chaba'd took

Anonymous said...

what does a talmid of a talemid of Berlin and Sorbonne understand about Gedorin and Seyogim?

Minkatcher Ainikle said...

Horrible, Horrible. So becuase some women won't call Hatzoloh because men will come, is reason to train women members?!?! Shows how messed up the chinuch is, wouldn't it be easier to set those warped women straight?
Is it Tsniyus to have Skverer Vabelech driving around lights and sirens around Skver? They don't drive, so the driver is either a Skverer Yungeman or a Shiksa? I'm confused how this "hecherkeit" would work exactly. I pray that no one "macht noch" or we shall be doomed.

Anonymous said...

will these women drive? (gasp!) a car? an ambulance?? is he liberating the women in new square?

AVF said...

One time the Rebbetzin (Chaya Musya) was in a conversation, in which she expressed an opinion on some subject. Then, it came up in a conversation that her husband was of a different opinion. She said, "This is my husband's opinion? Then it is also my opinion."

Is this story supposed to serve as an example for our wives and daughters? Perhaps, on some level it is a story of bitul, which does not need to be copied exactly. The same goes with the story about aneurism and tznius. And for a Chossid, a story of his Rebbe or Rebbetzin is important regardless of whether it makes sense.

chabakuk elisha said...

Hirshele,

All I can say is: WHO CARES? why does this bother you so?

1. I think it's nice to open up opportunities for women to be hatzolo members if they want to? I think it's very nice for there to be roles for women so inclined. So, whatever the reason, that opportunity for women is a nice thing.

2. And if some women may feel more comfortable if the haltzolo worker is a woman (assuming the are capable and qualifies) than it's a very sensative and nice thing to offer.

3. Since it may be a small community, people my feel more comfortable if their friend and enemies arent taking care of their wives. Is that nothing to be sensative to?

But really, why does this get you worked up?

Hirshel Tzig said...

CE

this is not some equal opportunity gesture, "giving women a chance" new age baloney. This is a warped "kedushah" issue, they supposedly are doing this Mita'amei Tznius. That's why it bothers me.

chabakuk elisha said...

First of all, let's not minimize the realities; you don’t necessarily know what prompted this.

Second, this may very well result in real life improvements from a health perspective:
People may feel more comfortable calling, whereas in the past they might have just gone to the ER
The expansion of hatzolo may include more and better EMTs.
There may very well be men that would rather not work on woman, and until now they call someone else to come.

And really H, although you man be pure as the wind driven snow, does not mean that everyone else is. I don’t see why you are troubled by this on any level…

Ushi said...

Well....
For starters, what has you all worked up????
Berl,
Sounds like you have never left CH:Square is all within walking distance ,no driving with 'men'.
Stam azoi you guys need a bissel edelkait, many women are uncomfortable with being taken care of by a man especially in a small shteytel.
Wonderful thing as far as I'm concerned.

arbiter said...

I have to agree, it's definitely a positive step having women in Hatzola, even if Halacha and common sense would allow for men to do the rescuing. Also, consider that not every emergency or Hatzola call is life-threatening and having a female respondent in those situations will feel less intrusive.

But that story with the Rebbetzin is still pretty stupid...

Anonymous said...

ushi? are you nisht mit alehmen???
its a 10 minute walk from end to end if not more. & when the woman has to be taken in to hospital who goes then? hah?

berl, crown heights said...

"Square is all within walking distance"
You mean ti say that they put a person on a stretcher and carry her to the nearest hospital? And they haul all the emergency equipment on their shoulders? Women do all that? Wow!

Besides, no one is 'worked up'. It's just that the frum world in general is getting crazier and crazier about new and heretofore unheard of chumreis and this is yet another manifestation of the same. Btw, I am sure the Skverer Rebbe's will get his wish and, alas, 'other communities do the same'. That is the only thing that upsets me, I simply do not wish to see this in my community. And, contrary to popular belief, and very unfortunately, Chabad is not immune to the goings on in the larger frum society - our local hardware store sells florescent light boxes for 'bug checking'! Makes me want to puke!

As to the women that feel uncomfortable around hatzoloh men, perhaps instead of validatin their misguided concerns, they should be educated on the relevant dinim that pertain to such circumstances.

Taka said...

Its wives of Hatzola members coming along when the woman being picked up reachs b'shaah tuva.

SatmarTC said...

IMHO, The Skverrer Rebbe knows a little better what r the needs of his community, specially being small, women could be not so confortable, but maybe an association with other chassidim's atzoloh could be another possible solution

arbiter said...

Anonymous above-

"(Some, like VIN even patted Mishpacha on the back.)"

You misunderstood the entire point of the VIN article which was pro-Lubavitch.

Anonymous said...

My question is:
If the oilem knew who the two-faced mamzer the Tzig is, would he still try and write garbage about the whole world besides Lubavitch??
I think not.
They brought the Dailyyid down for much smaller things I can't wait till they drag the Tzig into the sunlight.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

HT,

I agree with you again! That piece with the Skolya Rebbitzen shocked me. Is that behavior to followed or emulatd?! Maybe that is why she died, becuase of the strain.

Zecharya said...

I love the idea!
The Rebbe has proven again to be in touch with wordly issues.Hopefully this idea will take off in other communities.There are two issues here:One is that many women will feel more comfortable getting emergency help and secondly more women will know after training what to do in emergencies without having to wait for Hatzolo.

Rebbetzin said...

A female Hatzala member? cool! Even lubavitch hasn't thought of that yet. To me it seems that they're becoming more open minded, not less.

Either way, G-d bless Skver and Chabad, and all the Jews.

Btw, Berl, i don't think you have to worry about this happening in CH. We're too tznius to want to become hatzala members. (sarcasm intended)

gutte nacht y'all!

berl, crown heights said...

rebbetzin,
since you are so 'tznius', perhaps you should consider not conversing with men on blogs? (sarcasm intended)

Tzemach Atlas said...

and everything else this group done for the past 200 years is just great. Skver done nothing for Jews. All they are know for are Breslver redifos. This is the worst dynasty in the world.

CE, should know better than to defend Skver about anything.

Hirshel Tzig said...

TA
have you read The Family Mashber?

Anonymous said...

what happened to the skolya rebetzin? english please.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

Skolya Rebbitzen suffered an anurysem. She refused to be carried by Hatzolah, and insisted on walking down the stairs. Later that day she went into a coma and died. Who knows if the stress of walking had anything to do with it. I see that some chassidim are looking to be true 'chossid shota' of the gemara!!

BTW, Washington Higehts has lady hatzolah members for years.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Twisty
in Wash Hts they do it MiTaamei Tznius or equal opportunity?

I can understand women wanting a member of the same gender helping her during childbirth. If this is the case here - that women members are for labor and delivery like one comment here said - then fine. But if this will cause complications and if it's all because of "kedisheh," then we have a problem.

As far as the Rebbetzin goes; I don't know if once an aneurysm strikes that walking down the stairs makes a difference, but this is a terrible lesson! are we now teaching that even in a time of Pikuach Nefesh that we need to be worried about things like a man touching her stretcher???

schneur said...

I just read that the Skverer Rebbe started a besdin as a Mishmeres LeMishmeres for Dinei Mamonus and Choshen Mishpat maters.. It will operate exclusively for the benefit of the communal mosdos in New Skver.
It;s task will be to make cetain that all requests for government aid at all levels are betachlis "halegitimacy".

Anonymous said...

Skver done nothing for Jews?

Every Chassidus has its PR issues, but this is an unfair statement.

Sounds like Tzemach is just jealous of Skver's success and tremendous accomlishments which, I may say, is probably more than what Tzemach has accomplished.

The unBerl,ch said...

The Tzig spreading his hate.As usual.
Is that what attracted you to Lubavitch, their hate mongering??

Country Yossi said...

Which Jews have done for other Jews?
Not to many,unfortunately.Don't be fooled by Lubavitchs' 'doing'.It's not about Jews, but about a certain Jew named R'MM Schneerson and its about their own power and influence and the ability to provide for their uneducated masses.You send them out on 'shlichus' and they have a paying job.If they are good at it they become rich if they are not they at least support their brood and obtain more power and influence for the head honcho.

twistelton-twistelton said...

HT,
I assume Washington Heights dose it primarily for equal opportunity reasons. The other reason is because the men of WH are primarily professionals who work away from their homes. There is no huge carade of Rebbeim, storekeepers etc who are available to go on calls by day.

I have no idea if the Skolya Rebbitzen walking down to the ambulance has anything to do with her tragic death. But she sure got worse after she walked down the steps. More importantly, the gemara defines a “chosid Shota’ as one who places more importance on tznius than saving a life. Which is what happened here, wether it had an effect or not!

Chaim said...

When I was in a Lubavitch school as a kid we were fed many stories about the messirus nefesh of Lubavitchers in Russia.How they would not eat anything the whole pesach, how a certain chossid would not eat any treif in Stalingrad under the German siege and died from starvatation.Well, you surely don't need to give a life up for those things, right?
So what's the difference? Here this rebbe is trying to set it up ahead of time so there is no need for messirus nefesh..

Anonymous said...

I hear that CH is already training women for Hatzolo. Women to take care of the men and men taking care of the women. They'll get so many calls, that they'll need more members.

Anonymous said...

Schneur

Are you sarcastic?

Milhouse said...

Tzig, I think you're wrong on this one.

1. Chossid shoteh is when your chassidus comes af yenem's cheshbon. Actually, someone who deliberately transgresses lo sa'amod for the sake of tznius is not a chossid shoteh, he's a rosho; a chossid shoteh is one who doesn't know the difference between ikor and tofel, and honestly thinks tznius is more important than saving lives. But this is all when it's yenem's life; we have many examples from Chazal and from our own nesi'im and chassidim showing that dolce et decorum est pro yiddishkeit mori, so to speak, i.e. that one may and perhaps should be moser nefesh for a dikduk kal shel divrei sofrim or a chassidisher minhog, and surely for an inyan of tznius.

2. While pikuach nefesh, and even stam medical necessity, permits crossing the boundaries between the sexes, nobody claims that this is necessary. If a person of the same sex as the patient is available, all else being equal isn't it better to send them rather than someone of the opposite sex? If you had a choice between a male and female doctor, and there was no great reason to choose the female, wouldn't you automatically choose the man? And if you were a woman wouldn't you just as automatically choose the woman?

3. For taharos also, I'm sure that if no women are available to be mis'askek with a woman, men can do so, and vice versa. But lechatchila each chevra kadisha has both men and women members, so there will be no need to cross the boundaries, and each meis can be dealt with by members of the same sex. Now surely in such a case there is no cheshash at all of hirhurim! But nevertheless we keep to the boundaries where possible and practical, while remaining ready to cross them where it isn't. Haynt kol sheken when we're dealing with living patients, who have feelings and comfort zones of their own.

Milhouse said...

Berel, I don't see the avla of a light box to make bug-checking easier. It's not as if in Lubavitch we never worried about bugs, and never checked the vegetables. We always checked them, and didn't eat those things that were hard to check; the new technology just makes it easier. The Mezritcher Maggid's endorsement of the Chavos Yo'ir's chiddush isn't really relevant to visible bugs in vegetables; that's more to do with the copepods in the water.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"But this is all when it's yenem's life; we have many examples from Chazal and from our own nesi'im and chassidim showing that dolce et decorum est pro yiddishkeit mori, so to speak, i.e. that one may and perhaps should be moser nefesh for a dikduk kal shel divrei sofrim or a chassidisher minhog, and surely for an inyan of tznius."

Any source other than stories for this assertion?

Milhouse said...

Maaseh rav. From Rabbi Akiva's willingness to die of thirst for netilas yodayim through the Frierdiger Rebbe's hunger strike for talis and tefilin, we have many examples of literal mesirus nefesh even when the Torah gives one the option of doing what's necessary and pleading pikuach nefesh.

berl, crown heights said...

milhouse,
There is no 'avla' in the light box. There is also no 'avla' אז שבת זאל מען פישן אויף וואעט כדי ניט צו משמיע קול זיין – after all, we do believe that it is assur to be mashmia keil on Shabbos...

berl, crown heights said...

אויף וואטע

Milhouse said...

It's only assur to make sounds with a keli whose purpose is to make sounds. You can't use a door knocker, because its purpose is to make sounds, but nobody suggests that you can't knock on the door itself. But everyone agrees bugs are assur, and one has to check carefully for them, and azei hot men geton in di alte heim, so why not use modern technology to make the job easier?

BTW, what's וואטע ?

Milhouse said...

PS: מהיות טוב אל תקרא רע

Hirshel Tzig said...

וואטע is cotton

you should know that

Milhouse said...

Huh. I did not know that. I thought it was בוים-וואל in "proper" Yiddish, or just קאטען in Yiddish-as-she-is-spoke.