Monday, May 3, 2010

Addendum - HaGaHaC"h R'Ezra B Schochet, שליט"א

We spoke about REBS and his connection to Baltimore and Lakewood and Brisk, but there were uncertainties. Years that he attended certain institutions of higher learning were unclear and disputed by the skeptics amongst you. There were claims that the relationship with RAK was untrue due to his young age, and that it ABSOLUTELY could not be that RAK knew him, held of him, and said certain things about him. It was all an after-the-fact revision by Lubavitch to try and show how they snatched away the good minds from Lakewood and others. So we did our homework and found several supporting statements to back up what we had said here a while ago; namely his time in Lakewood and Brisk, his relationship with RAK and the latter's feelings towards him and towards his future standing in the Torah World, as well as what other greats had to say about him BEFORE he was farchapped in the terrible web of lies and deceit that is and was Lubavitch, since time immemorial.





First we have the Rosh's bio. The years 1960 to 1963 were spent in Lakewood. That could be anywhere from 3 to 4 years, most of which were spent in the presence of RAK, who passed on in November of '62, IIRC. I imagine that RAK didn't come to yeshivah in his final days, since he was suffering from an illness that finally took his life, but there still was plenty of time. Which brings us to the next letter, "Exhibit C" if you will:



a letter written by RAK to REBS's father in Toronto, telling him how his son is excelling in Torah, and how he's destined to be one of the "true" Torah giants, באופן נעלה, thanks to his good kishronos and intense studying - בשקידה רבה. Come to think of it that really was a good catch by Lubavitch! After all, I don't think his intellectual capacity was diminished any later on, and if he was a Gadol in the making in 1960 then he only improved in the late 60s, and was close to a Gadol by the time he joined Lubavitch, no? Oh, but I guess he lost the Daas Torah that he almost had... Ok, no more sarcasm.



If you'd like I'll let you frown on the letter from
REYF and tell me that it's a generic, typed letter, that shows really nothing. He does mention how he visits with him frequently and is mechadesh fine chiddushum, but REYF clearly stipulates that the bright future that he predicts for REBS will only happen if he stays on the true path. If you want you can argue that he didn't - whatever makes you feel good. How's that?



Do as you wish with Rabbi Shemano's letter of recommendation; he was being nice, didn't wanna hurt another Yid's parnosoh, since he was "applying" for the Or Elchonon job, he had rachmanus on his father. Take your pick. Again, whatever makes you feel good.

63 comments:

Anonymous said...

Can't read Reb Ahron's handwriting. The other letters don't say anything

Anonymous said...

nebach, all that potential wasted. chabad ruined another precious neshama.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

right, I forgot. In Israel he would've been what? That would've been better,,,,,,,,,,,

Boropk said...

Interesting stuff..
Yishar Koiach

Anonymous said...

Anon,
What a Nebach
He would of end up like Markowitz of the Shach side in Ponovich beating up people, bombing cars, fighting with bouncers and Pitbulls on buildings in Ashdod, going to court etc.. all in the name of the Avi Ezri Jihadist brigades, In the meantime he is Nebach learning torah with yidishe kinder in LA and fundraising too, like his Rebbe RAK, I pray every day my boys shoul end up Nebachs like him.

The guy said...

The bottom line is that The Rosh did not study in Lubavitcher yeshivos.
So though the history here is interesting, for example entering Lakewood at the tender age of 17 and in R'Aharons time (!) shows he must've been a very precocious young buchur,it basically says that Lubavitcher yeshivos had nothing to offer a bright guy.
Unless you are trying to prove something else that is lost on me.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

Who is Rabbi Shemano? I never heard of him. And I am in lakewood a long time.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

THE GUY

the "bottom line" is that you're a knappe chochom.

you obviously know nothing about his background. Not that you need to.

The guy said...

Tzig,
Help me understand if you don't mind.
What did I miss about his background?
His father became influenced by Chabad and was the brother in law of Hodakov and sent the older brothers to Lubavitch, apparently he did not want to repeat the mistake with The Rosh and apparently The Rosh himself felt he had nothing to acquire learning wise at least in Lubavitch
What are you trying to prove?

dovy said...

Shemano? who's that?

Achdus said...

You don't know Shimano? Shameonyu!
He was R' Shneur"s Zt"l left hand.

Hey guys - stop with the narishkaiten.
Do something good for SMR.

You know... I want to see that latest on RSM, so I go to COL, and it's full of shtusim! I'm embarrassed!

Anonymous said...

people went to Lakewood before 17, even (or especially) in Reb Ahron's days.

His career definitely benefited from his switch to Chabad. Regardless, he is an ehrlicher yid, a Talmud Chochom, and oived and has common sense. Why he became Lubavitch is still a mystery... I think it was a moifes that was the clintcher.

Anyways, maybe he was mainly attracted to the Chabad ideology and the Rebbe happens to be the greatest in that field? Who knows.

For the mavinim: Where can we get ahold of Reb Elya Weintraoub's kuntrus/sefer about Chabad?

Anonymous said...

I second the waste of time in this stupid nitpicking while none of you (including HT) does a thing for SMR and have the ochrey yisroel of the treyfe blogs (from fm a lubab bt shechoar lesuroy to all others) badmouthing all frumme yiden and glow for the suffering of smr while all you have time for is stupid old fights that have no relevance today!

Anonymous said...

by the way what is the address of Rabbi shochet so that i can write him a shalah in lomdus
also does he have a brother in cananda a rov

A. SHOEL

Anonymous said...

Speaking about letters by the Chasidim and by the litwackes the rebbes and the roshei yeshiva when they wrote a letter to another yid who they knew they all ways used to write wrote the word yididi (My friend ) or ydideney (our friend) does anybody know if the rebbe the rm"m ever wrote a letter to someone with the word Ydidy or ydideny

The guy said...

I"m repeating my question you chose not to answer:"Tzig,
Help me understand if you don't mind.
What did I miss about his background?
His father became influenced by Chabad and was the brother in law of Hodakov and sent the older brothers to Lubavitch, apparently he did not want to repeat the mistake with The Rosh and apparently The Rosh himself felt he had nothing to acquire learning wise at least in Lubavitch
What are you trying to prove?"

Additionally you also called me an idiot.Wonder why you get so angry when other people call you an idiot

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I called you an idiot for the "apparent" things you stated, which are anything but that.

did his older brothers learn in Lubavitch? did you ask him why he decided not to learn there? was it him who decided not to?

get back to me soon, please

Mottel said...

-The Guy: AFAIK the Rebbe instructed the Rosh to remain in said Yeshivos. The Rosh once told R' Mendel that all mersiras nefesh he had in Siberia didn't compare to that in the Misngadishe Yeshivos. (I don't recall the particulars of that story - if anyone remembers it in greater detail, please tell us)

Anonymous said...

A.Shoel
did you try Reb Elye Ber Vachtfogel already?

Anonymous said...

carlbach
schechter
boteach
schochet

Anonymous said...

Given video evidence of how today's Litwaker treat their own gedolim, why would R. Shochet have been "better off" staying in that world? I'm sure he will consult anonymous internet men for major future decisions, though.

Anonymous said...

Anon
what is the list all about?
is Tropper? Matis Wienberg etc.. also a list
you ferd

Chaim said...

"The Rosh once told R' Mendel that all mersiras nefesh he had in Siberia didn't compare to that in the Misngadishe Yeshivos."

This is really an insult to the intelligence,Mottel.Unfortunately you belong to the the "im eyn daas, havdolo menayen" crowd.You are A)Making The Rosh out to be an idiot for even trying to compare the minor discomfort he could have had in non Lubab yeshivos to the real torture R'Mendel went through in Siberia B)To even think of comparing other frum Jews to the Communist reshoim shows a despicable nature.
Mottel CHABAD stood for Chochma ,Bino, Vo'daas, did they not tell you?

ConsumerVigilante said...

I believe the Shochet family went over to the dark side after an incident with the Rosh's sister, Rebbetzin Newman of Long Beach, when she was a child. If memory serves, and perhaps the newphew Rabbi B., can jump in, she was burnt as a child and the Rebbe played a role in her miraculous recovery.

Gary said...

It's so pathetic to see the "dark hints" of Tzig and his side kick in the typical paranoid kool-aid fashion.
His "dark hints" are that Shochat was sent to "Litvishe" yeshivos as a "shlichus of mesiras nefesh" by the rebbe himself!
Of course the worst Lubavitcher yeshiva has better lomdim and magidei shiur than the "idis shebe'idis" of the Lutvackes!
It has to be that Schochat was risking turning out a grubbeh am hooretz like all the rest of the Lutvackes, but he persevered in his shlichus, roped R'yOSEF hELLER tachas kanfei hachochma vodaas, and still made it out, sholem betorosoi, sholem begufoi, sholem with half of his beard still intact and most of all sholeim in Hiskashres!
The best ra'ayah that any Lubavitcher yeshiva is better than the best Lutvishe is (drum roll!!!!!)that Lubavitch (supposedly)turned down Rav Shach because he was not a big enough "lamden" !(according to the rosh of aihalei teyreh)and yet he went on to be the biggest ROS YESIVA by the Lutvackes!!!!
A "clear" siman that Lubavitcher yeshivas are superior!!!

I still remember the hissy fit the Goat had when Bechhoffer the non Lubavitch (yet...)nephew of Schochat said something about his late aunt that was not entirely in sync with the kool-aid the Goat had been fed

Mottel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mottel said...

Thank you all for trying to insult me.
ma'aseh sh'haya kach haya . . .
I may even be mistaken - as perhaps it was Reb Mendel that said it to the Rosh.

orthodoxjew said...

iv seen many such letters from rav aaron kotler it was standard in those days i also spoke to other talmidim of reb aaron they all tod m he was an average bochur

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

and I'm sure they said that they themselves were way above average...

Mottel said...

The story with Mrs. Newman can be found here - scroll down towards the middle.

Feivel said...

I believe, though I do not know with a clarity that Lakewood in the time of R'Aharon was a collection of the best boys in olom hayeshivos in America.Being that Shochat was there at the tender young age of 17 he must've have been a bright bochur.Whether he actually stood out is something that people who learnt there at the time would know better.
Bear in mind that he was young, probably one of the youngest and the young chevreh there were iluyish so the competition was tough.Take R'Aharon Yoffen z"l for example, slightly younger than Shochat but with a brilliant mind, Zuravin, who was just niftar,a little bit older than Shochat was also a brilliant bochur.I don't think that with this kind of competition Schochat could have stood out but it does not mean that he was not a very bright bochur who would grow to be a big talmid chochom.
It could also be that R'Yitzchok Soloveichik was there at the same time too and again I don't think that R'Shochat would stand out in such company.

Shmilu said...

Mottel,
You say outrageous things, actually claiming that learning in a Misnagdishe yeshiva is WORSE than being in Siberia and you quote this garbage in the name of Rabbi Schochat!! Then you use the lame excuse: "mayseh shehoyo", THAN you backtrack and are not even sure in your own warped and kool-aided mind if the mayseh happened!The next thing we have is a young Lubavitcher kid reading this garbage story and you keep re-feeding the hate.Your hate and kool-aid paranoia is so twisted that you don't even realize in what a twisted light you put R'Schochat!
What a waste of time arguing with feeble minded robots...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

here's a waste of time for you, Shmilu, my friend. arguing with the likes of Gary who see things that just aren't there. Here's what he said:
His "dark hints" are that Shochat was sent to "Litvishe" yeshivos as a "shlichus of mesiras nefesh" by the rebbe himself!


where did he see that in my words? where did I even get close to hinting that? why does your hatred (Gary's) to Chabad need to drive you insane?????!!!!!

and why does Shmilu not have a problem with such statements?

MOTTEL, if proven wrong will very graciously apologize. Guys like Gary won't.

...ויחי ההבדל הקטן

Shmilu said...

So.......
You are comfortable claiming that a respected Lubavitch rosh yeshiva, actually ACCUSED other frummeh yidden of being worse than the Communist reshoim???
What a drunk you are.
And
A TERRIBLE HATE MONGER.
Oh,
you must be working on your "ahavas yisroel"
Fooy,fooy!!!
N.B Just watched the video from the Parade with the yechi "incident"
No chance that you"ll show it here, off course, yet you are busy nitpicking everyone else and their Snag brother.
Pathetic.

Shmilu said...

"did his older brothers learn in Lubavitch? did you ask him why he decided not to learn there? was it him who decided not to?"

What did you mean here??

Shmilu said...

You and Mottel.
Larry and Moe.Where is Curly?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, I'm not comfortable with anything, you twerp.

I would imagine the comment was made in jest, but Mottel would've been better off not mentioning it here, since fools like yourself have no understanding of how to put comments like into context.

Let's make a deal:
I'll post the yechi incident at the Lag Baomer parade together with the police evicting the Grodno Yeshivah in Ashdod, together with the Simchas Torah in Rodney Ahavas Yisroel fest. OK?

Shmilu said...

In the thread with R'Boruch Bers' name you were called out for accusing people with zero proof.
Did you apologize??
No!
Hater...

Shmilu said...

Yup for the deal!!!!

Shmilu said...

"I would imagine the comment was made in jest, but Mottel would've been better off not mentioning it here, since fools like yourself have no understanding of how to put comments like into context."

Said by the most literal of dunces.
Funny

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

{why do I do this to myself?}

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yup for the deal? easy for you to say

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

some genius here decided that he didn't learn in Lubavitch because of his older brothers not doing well there. So I asked him if he knew that they learned there bichlal? Did they? even if they did - did he want to and decided not to because of his older brothers, or maybe it was his parents who decided that he not go learn there!
the point is that people who know very little about him and his family are making assumptions based on things they see as "apparent" which really are not?
Farshtantoo, Shmilu'ke

Shmilu said...

You are a hater.
You give us a transcript of all the yeshivas Rabbi Shoichet learned in.
They are the finest yeshivas in the Litvishe velt.Almost all of the leaders of the Frum Litvishe world and many of the Chasidishe velt came from there.Then you allow "your guy" to claim that they are worse and bigger reshoim than the Communists in Siberia.NOT you nor any of your sidekicks finds such a libel objectionable, till a Snag calls you on it, forces you to the wall then you claim it was just "said in jest"!!!???
Tell me are you really and truly a Stokholm victim?Stam a yold?Or a true bonafide sonei yisroel??

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

my guy? is that so?
what about all the personal attacks against me and the people dear to me that I allow?
go away.

Shmilu said...

"the point is that people who know very little about him and his family are making assumptions based on things they see as "apparent" which really are not?
Farshtantoo, Shmilu'ke"

Yet when his own nephew said things about him with the inside information that only a family member would know, things that don't fit your agenda, you actually risked a fight with an almost next door neighbor (who only gave you watermelon...)to call him names.
You are not interested in truth, you have your agenda.Any proof of Chabad totally losing it's marbles, self destructing and becoming a movement where maybe most or a least a significant part of the future generation is fed a "second coming" very krist like theology.
You have no problem sending your kids there and trying to encourage others to drink the kool-aid.
Negiehs, negiehs...

Shmilu said...

"the point is that people who know very little about him and his family are making assumptions based on things they see as "apparent" which really are not?
Farshtantoo, Shmilu'ke"

Yet when his own nephew said things about him with the inside information that only a family member would know, things that don't fit your agenda, you actually risked a fight with an almost next door neighbor (who only gave you watermelon...)to call him names.
You are not interested in truth, you have your agenda.Any proof of Chabad totally losing it's marbles, self destructing and becoming a movement where maybe most or a least a significant part of the future generation is fed a "second coming" very krist like theology.
You have no problem sending your kids there and trying to encourage others to drink the kool-aid.
Negiehs, negiehs...

Shmilu said...

"go away."

In other words, don't bother me with tough questions.
Nee, mir halten shoyn auf a veig

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no. In other words don't waste my time.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

My point was proven. Now I can delete it...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Shmilu

You DIDN'T see the comment where a famiily member made commments that weren't very flattering. Those comments I rejected, out of respect to RYGB. So please, stop lecturing to me about what I do and why I say things.

Anonymous said...

what was the yechi incident?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

at the end of the Parade a guy grabbed the mike and screamed Yechi. big deal.

Anonymous said...

all the trucks had big yechi signs on them too, as can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnKALo2nBgY looks pretty official to me, not just some guy screaming

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

and the point is? the point here was about the fight that ensued, not about the floats.

Can somebody remind me what this has to do with R Schochet???

Anonymous said...

a fight? you should be proud of someone finally standing up to that crap.

tunnel vision said...

"at the end of the Parade a guy grabbed the mike and screamed Yechi. big deal."

Guys, totally not true.This was a big deal.Big enough for someone to scream "away from the cameras"
I would post a link but don't believe the local Lubavitch p.r department (the tzig)would let it through.
Anyway, now he is trying to get people away from the nagging problems in the Lubab backyard, by starting a war with the Sakmoyrem, if that doesn't help, he"ll go back to the tried asnd true bubbeh mayselach from Shanghai or better still the man Lubab love to hate Avigdor of Pinsk.
Anything but focus on HIS guys

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

from a tunnel everything looks like a big deal. This is nothing new; Hendel and the Meshichisten always try and ruin something that they cannot take or control.

The whole thing - the whole clip - is some 90 seconds long. Including before and after.

As far as PR goes; I'd say you were alot more into PR for your side than I am. Which is why you need to switch the topic here away from the Shochet conversation. And which is why you need to say that all the stories are bubbe mayses. It doesn't suit your agenda. If I was such a "PR guy" I'd never let your comments through, and nobody would be the wiser, right?

tunnel vision said...

"If I was such a "PR guy" I'd never let your comments through, and nobody would be the wiser, right?"

If you wouldn't let my comments thru, all you would have is a bunch of kool-aided-yes-men who would just ask how high when asked to jump.
Nobody would read your crappy agenda driven blog if there was no "contra" to the kool-aid

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you must be all alone in that tunnel if you think that I need you reading my blog.

There are plenty of counter arguments here without your off-topic ramble here.

Anonymous said...

it is no secret that the Moshiach faction in CH is large and fighting them aggressive will not get you nowhere, did the Aroni side in Satmar abolish the Benai Yoel, Did Moshe Friedman abolish the Aroni Rebbe? Courts,Kol koreh from the Bedatz, fist fights and Issur Chitun dosen"t budge a inch. so everyone is here to stay, then why fight

Anonymous said...

it depends how much it bothers you, and apparently "normal" lubavitch is pretty complacent about the moshiach issue.

על דעת המקום ועל דעת הקהל בישיבה של מעלה ובישיבה של מטה אנו מתירין להתפלל עם העבריינים

Anonymous said...

what happened to the guy who tackled RabbI Hecht?