Is there any chashash that the testimonies might be true and he might have committed horrible crimes? Or is it all alilas dam?
very little chashash
"very little chashash"Based on what??You tried this dumb defense.Ess hot geholfen azo vi bankes far a toiten.The Goverment is overreaching because of idiots like yourself who claim it's lies, anti-semitic blah blah.Yidden in golus always knew that mehn darg beigen dem kop and shtillerhait make a deal with the "puretz".
right. I forgot.Natrina only likes Obama and Palestinians.
No we don't.We know what Chazal taught us.You guys have stopped any real learning and borrowed from the "goyim".A small shpatzir in C.Heights will show that your language and dress has much in common with your friendly neighbors.כאסידי כאבאדNice joke from חסידות.You guys raise so much $$$ for your bs, yet when we have a guy in terrible circumstances your big knackers can't raise $$$$ and need everybody else.For shame
Chazal taught us to negotiate with the Poretz? can you tell me where that is? does Sholom Mordche look like a man influenced by the goyim to you? can you stick to one subject here, you absolute fool?
yes SMR looks christen by carrying a picture from his avode zura to court
after the parade i saw the children in CH playing with the goiyish neighbors the would have not played with snags ( if they were any )
just when you thought there was hope...
As long as you think YOU have all the truth, there is no hope.Lubavitch have a long history of doing dumb things and than blaming everyone else for the machloikes.Years ago you guys were begged not to come to Williamsburg on your annual tahalichehs because there were hotheads.You wouldn't listen.You claimed you "can't change the route that the Frierdige started".Well, the next year you stopped!and you caused a terrible machloikes.Same nonsense with your undergroung guys trying to missionarize our youth.Leave us alone!!!Did you expect us to be quite when you introduce your deyois koizvois to our youth?!!I don't want to side track the issue while a yid who needs rachamim rabim, but we need to learn once and for all to stop this yiddishe shtolz in the wrong place and time
Josh/NatrinaIf I am reading well, the argument goes that he looked the 14 year old mexican in the eye when he saw them on the plant floor. To me all Mexicans youngsters,look like 12 years old.Who said he looked?How many times do you look at someone and your mind wanders on your other problem.This kid is bribed by the government to talk since he got some citizen status.
Natrina what the heck does that issue pertain to the case in Iowa.You are good in pilpul that you can combine both in to 1 issue
Natrina"Did you expect us to be quite when you introduce your deyois koizvois to our youth?!!"Dios Koizvois? who decided?
NatrinaI don't know about you, but he looks like the typical Golus Yid to me here.
Natrina"and you caused a terrible machloikes."I like that line, its as honest as all your weekly rags Blatt,Yid Zietung combined
Please don't patronize Natrina here and make this into another Vechter argument.
Natrina"We know what Chazal taught us"big talmud chochem where exactly did chazal teach us, I saw in the Chader Rov (Tennenbaum bnie yoel)sefer in the name of the Ari Zal that Yakov Avinu needed a tikun for having too much bitul for Esau, so Mordechai Lo Yichra velo Yishtachve was a tikkun for that.
Anon"saw the children in CH playing with the goiyish neighbors "I work their every day and I never saw it happening, I guess chazals fact "Horotza Letama Metamin Oiso " worked on you
HirshelI am happy that you are getting to your senses, It would be your job to sanction this maniacs
"Please don't patronize Natrina here and make this into another Vechter argument"What have you guys got to hide up your missionary workers korf and wechter?
we have nothing to hide. But if you'll notice you'll see that this was not the topic of discussion here, so we won't discuss it HERE.If you'd like you can use the search function on the blog and look for other places where we discussed it at great length.?פארשטאנען
"after the parade i saw the children in CH playing with the goiyish neighbors the would have not played with snags ( if they were any )"This guy probably thought that the white kids with no peyos, baseball caps, goyishe clothes were goyim.They were your average Lubab family in C.H.
What exactly is the "discussion" here?Where you there? Where we there?What can we add to this?Do we know if it is true or not?You are such a crock.A Lubab kool-aider.The guy needs help, not two Lubavitchers idiots claiming that he is innocent.....or not.Set up a fundraiser in your Monsey shul.That would help him quite a bit more than your foolish rants here
RIGHT. so me saying that he's innocent is "Lubab kool-aid." I should say that he's guilty and have them throw the (lifetime sentence) book at him to show how objective I am, right?and why should I make fundraisers for a guilty Lubab anyway?
Yold,Listen up!!!Don't say anything!!You don't know if he broke the gezetz or not."Saying" is like saying "yechi" it does not mean anything.Min hastam vaystee az yesh devurem begoi veda'l.Our avoideh is to raise $$$ for the proffesionals and to keep idiots like you and shea off the air and in the mikva discussing how "imshildig" he is.?פארשטאנען
notice how that (innocence or guilt) was never the topic here! I posted a picture and a link and asked G-d Almighty to have mercy on him. But I guess that too was too much, right? we should beg the Poritz to have mercy, right? maybe shmier abissel? get him drunk and hope he forgets, right?
"maybe shmier abissel"Nice idea veda'l
Calling this case anti semitism, isn't some lubavitch "kool aid" term. I spoke to sombedy, who spoke to alan dershowits ( a liberal frei'e jew) who called the rubashkin case "blatant anti semitisim I think its pretty clear that alan has no agenda and nevertheless he cals it blatant anti semitisim. So stop making like its just a bunch of closed minded lubavitchers saying this
Hershel, as someone who is a religous reader of your blog ,and as someone who is almost always on the oppisite side of almost every issue,I must confess that i have never felt such achdus with chabad as i do pertaining to SMR.I dont know what it is but this case and the continued coverage of it and of SMR's great personal character has affected me deeply. And there's 1 more thing I'd like to put out there, as a proud misnaged who has lived in lkwd for over 20 yrs i want you to know that lkwd is totally behind SMR and the sentiment in BMG and in the street is that he's totally innocent, so i dont know what any of these demented commenters here are talking abt, but they dfiniteky dont spk for our community.
Thanks, lakewooderjudging from the language I can see that it's not people from your community.Yasher Kochachem
I had thought this may not be seen in an earlier post, so it's here. And then again - being as Natruna etc is discussed here, it's indeed b'mkomo hanachon.Check the link for a new release reviewing the NK. Scroll down for some nostalgic "pashkvillen" fun amohligeh yohren..http://www.bhol.co.il/news_read.asp?id=16867&cat_id=1
The sentiment on no street is that SMR is totally innocent.We frum yidden are not idiots, for the most part,besides The Chochma Bina Vodaas guys who only have those attributes in their groups name.The issue is not innocence, the issue is helping a yid in the time of need against a very zealous prosecution.Crying innocent and claiming anti semitism will and has backfired.Anybody with an iota of sechel in their fiber knows this is not true, nor is it helpful.The "chachumim" from Skver tried this shtick about 15 years ago and ate the proverbial farshinkeneh fish and paid 10 million.I don't expect guys like Hirshel to get this, he and his Chochma guys have still not got over a "fact" that happened 16 years ago.Cults play games with peoples heads.
wow, anonymous 11:25talk about straight from the horse's mouth!
What a comeback.Hey who is "nosi hador"?See, you still have not gotten over 16 years ago (not that this title ever made any sense.)yet you are still talking your nonsense about "innocence" blah, blah.With such advocates who needs a zealous prosecutor?
the very relevant comments you make here deserve such good comebacks.So tell me, Mr. Arnold, how is it that someone who's privvy to all this top-secret info would waste his time on this blog?
Top secret??Cretin, nothing I wrote is top secret for people who have an average intelligence and not being snickered in by the Chochma fan club.A long time ago while the story was brewing with PETA, people who had a lit'l Bina, who understand the consequences of actions and know the machinations and thought processes of the frum oilem especially of the kool-aid club, knew that this story would spiral out of control unless immediate action was taken.But than idiots like Shea and others became eitza gebbers.Now we are post bankruptcy,post conviction and still the petz are misleading the fools.
cretin, kool-aid, idiots, petz, cultssomehow I find it difficult to believe that a man (?) who finds it difficult to make a point without using adjectives as these can say anything truthful.asking for a life sentence is "overzealous?" is that the best you can do?allowing illegals in here and then charging the man who hires them is only "overzealous?"would you take this if your neighbor would block your driveway? or would you puncture his tires?see what I mean, Mr. mah Yofis'nik?
What a strange response!Firstly, you make liberal use of pejoratives yet do not like when they are used against you.Whatever.Secondly, you are showing real ignorance about the justice system and sentencing. You"ll see that the Goverment has put people away for decades for many offenses you"d consider minor.The Skver fiasco has many correlations to this case, the false accusations of anti semitism, the sever consequences once convicted etc devurim shehashtikeh yufo luhen...You third "point" about tires is so stupid and pointless that it will remain unanswered.All these points were made a few years ago already.We should have learned from Skver,we should have listened to the Minkatcher.To late for that now.Now we need to let proffesionals try and minimize the damage and much cash is needed.
liberal use? hardlytry and listen to the testimony and not the Mikve talk about Minkatcher and others. Then tell me if others were put away for lesser crimes and maybe come up with a name or too.besides, he may have meant well, but the Munkatcher was throwing it up there and hoping it would stick, if you know what I mean, which I doubt.a 10 million dollar raid and they would let him go with a slap on the wrist? suuuure....
Anon,its very cool to be a Monday morning quarterback, nobody(outside of you the non Putz chochem hador)knew after the Peta that the whole world would fall apart on SMR,
soon lakewood will be on the madreiga of crown heights!
"a 10 million dollar raid and they would let him go with a slap on the wrist? suuuure.."Slap on the wrist as opposed to a demand for a life sentence??Do these two things sound the same at all???Hey,You are a CPA,did they not teach you about "red flags" when filing??We have a guy who employed 75% or more of nisht erloytbteh in their place.Anybody with a trop seichel knows that being in the news because of PETA will draw unwanted scrutiny.The first mistake was not handling PETA to keep them off the radar...vechulu.The Minkatcher is Chakimeh Deyuhudoi'i a yochid bedoiro in his havuneh and brilliant mind.Anyway they had the same exact story as Skver.Very few people heard about it.It was taken care of without noise without nonsensical accusations.
I"m surprised that as a Spinka talmid, far'n mabel fin Chochma, you don't see how being contrite and keeping publicity to a minimum is the best eitza.The Rebbes sentence is very very minimal.He could have gotten the book thrown at him
Anon,"we should have listened to the Minkatcher."I am not underestimating the Munkatcher Rebbes work by listening to so many broken hearths in their hardest time, but too many cases that he was consulting didn"t work out his way. Take the Jaobowitz case as an example, they are in the slammer for good.I guess he is not the Ziede Reb Moshe Lieb that had a vort in higher spheres.
75% of nisht erloybteh is quite good in those fields from what I understand! It could've been closer to 100%...again: we can rehash the illegals issue, but we all know that we allow them to come here and we want them here to take jobs nobody wants, or to quote Vincente Fox "jobs that even Blacks won't do."I'm not sure how you "handle" PETA when their agenda is to have the world stop using and eating animal products... would a check to them just make them go away?and comparing him to the Spinker REBBE is totally unfair. The Skverrer managed to keep their Rebbe out of the slammer altogether, so they did SOMETHING right, no?The truth is if SMR would be awaiting a short - say 3-4 year sentence - I'm sorry to say most of the sympathy you see today would not be there. Which is we see an outcry now, because of the excessive steps taken bythe prosecution, which you say is backlash, and you seem to think you know what you're talking about.What even happened to the "blind lady" of justice????
"The truth is if SMR would be awaiting a short - say 3-4 year sentence - I'm sorry to say most of the sympathy you see today would not be there"This statement is in my opinion correct.I"m not entirely sure what you mean by "I"m sorry to say".I guess you can't help making statements which are not thought through.After all, whatever, you probably know what I meant to say...There is a yid sitting in tefiseh for many years, from Monroe KJ, if I"m not mistaken Zaitschrift had an interview with him in the Pesach edition.Ehr haist S.....He did not kill anybody , stole a couple of million and got 27 years.Nobody made a big deal about it at the time, because everybody understood az ess iz nisht kan hefker velt. (lately a campaign has started to do something about the very lengthy sentence..)He has a very large family etc.Your club said nothing, did nothing.Hey, you asked for an example,right?
I'm sorry to say it because we could still be sympathetic to his plight - and it is a plight - even if he'll only be there for 3-4 yearsStole a couple of million? I don't think that's correct, and you know it. I think in Samet's case ( I can say his name, right? it was in the צייטשריפט after all) they threw the book at him, yes, but he didn't just default on a loan or hire illegals.... he was before his time, if you know what I mean. 10 years ago it was still embarrassing to commit a crime. Nu, so where were all the very clever "askunim" to help him?
Stole a couple of mill was about S.smr caused much more damage
"Nu, so where were all the very clever "askunim" to help him?"Actually there is a campaign going on. Now.I guess the oylem felt he got what he deserved, also a bunch of bucherim were schlept into it, which did not get him to much sympathy
"I'm sorry to say it because we could still be sympathetic to his plight - and it is a plight - even if he'll only be there for 3-4 years"I"m totally not a ma yofisnik but do you have the same feelings for all the chevreh in Otisville or is it because he belongs to your club?
absolutely I do! we're all one club here, my friend.
Talking about good magazines Zaitschrift is by Heimische standards at least, a very good periodical.If I"m not mistaken they had a good article about the clubhouse in C.Heights and the movement and it was very good .
The one amazing twist in this SMR story is the achdus is has produced.This is surely a zchus for SMRI"m sorry but I"m going to be brutally honest here:Your club got so stuck in playing the "everyone hates us" role that you could not get through to them to stop the vicious cycle of hate.Since the club had this built in defense mechanism that any critiscm is because of "jealousy and hate" they allowed themselves to really lose their marbles.Look at the crazy Yechi movement for a small example (I"m being charitable and not bringing up history from 20 years ago)See where this type of false pride and victim role has taken them.It was alaways impossible to convince the club that,actually we don't hate you, but, maybe you should try not send in undercover guys to infiltrate yeshivas to win over young impressionable boys?Parents want to have a say in their kids chinuch after all etc.This case has somehow managed to crack the victim syndrome.Yes, we don't hate you, but yes, we feel that many of your practices are cult like.
Anon,"There is a yid sitting in tefiseh for many years, from Monroe KJ, if I"m not mistaken Zaitschrift had an interview with him in the Pesach edition.Ehr haist S.....He did not kill anybody , stole a couple"their is a reason that people were mum on Samets case, too many Monroe yeshiva kids were used in his multifaceted criminal operations , its not that simple, lets stop bickering and spill the beans, In my eyes he is still a Tayere Yid and we have to do the outmost to help his family they should have kol tov vetov, and he needs help too.
Anon,I don"t know in which world you live, but the hatred to chabad rebiem and its chasidim is deeper then deep, just screen the comments on this site,
I have to say that I am very skeptical of the Frum media. I thin the whole Grossman episode did not reflect well on the frum world. So I was kind of skeptical about the whole SMR campaign. I just read the Des Moines Iowa blog of the trial (Like provided by HT). Beginning to think it is a travesty. The best the DA can come with is witnesses who claim “he looked at me in the face”. Wow, he sure must of known she was under aged. That’s proof. And how terrible could it have been if the families wanted the kinds working there?
"I have to say that I am very skeptical of the Frum media. I thin the whole Grossman episode did not reflect well on the frum world."Why?There were many extenuating reasons for him not to executed.All the frum world,I mean the compassionate rachmonim bnei rachmonim wanted was that the excution be stayed.
Maovai Techakani, The African American rights or the gay rights movements are fighting much better for their brethren then us orthodox Jewry, we are too media shy, we have to learn from them to be more in the face. The goal is to fight for a Jew in any shape or form,OJ Simpson was won because of the heavy invested civil rights rebel rouser involved.If we feel the Judge or Sherrif are biased, it should be fought with every channel possible to remove her from the bench.Their will be some people crying Chilul Hashem, but I beg to differ with them, the Torah way is to save a Yid with a family of 10 with every angle possible.
Anon."thought that the white kids with no peyos, baseball caps, goyishe clothes were goyim.They were your average Lubab family in C.H."did they stop wearing yarmulkes in CH? I thought they need the Yarmulkes to put the Yechi Lettering
Please comment on the following: I was informed by a Chabad rebbetzin that Mr. Rubashkin was offered a 6 year deal by the Feds to plead guilty. he went to the Munkatcher for advice, the Rebbe told him to accept the deal. Rubashkin decided to go for broke.Is this a true story ?
"I have to say that I am very skeptical of the Frum media. I thin the whole Grossman episode did not reflect well on the frum world."Why?There were many extenuating reasons for him not to executed.All the frum world,I mean the compassionate rachmonim bnei rachmonim wanted was that the excution be stayed.True. I also think that he shouldnt have been executed.I was referring to a great number of lies and half truths in the frum media in order to whip the Oylam up into a frenzy. Such as (short list): Grossman was a BT (he ate Treif for his last meal), was under drugs and/or retarded (mentioned NOT ONCE in all court papers until a year ago), expressed remorse (he couldn’t because he was angling for a new trial, so all he said was “I am sorry for whatever occurred”), didn’t intend to kill her (he shot her calmly AFTER she was beaten unconscious) etc etc. My brother read 11,000 pages of court filings. The difference between them and the frum media was incredible. By contrast, in the SMR case, you read the Des Moine Tribune blog covering the case, and are shocked that they are putting this case on trial.
natrina: ah git yuntiff
Anonymous wrote: "I guess he is not the Ziede Reb Moshe Lieb that had a vort in higher spheres"Anonymous, do you really think that every yid that the Rebbe Moshe Leib of Sassov was mispallel for and shtadeled for was released from jail or had the yeshuah and outcome that he would have wanted or understood? Don't be a fool!
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