The one one the left is not the point of the picture... Remember that the Rebbe was all of 54 years old here. Yiddishe Tzores do that to the Nossi HaDor. I remember seeing Chaim Lieberman's picture in the Pashkevill they published in 1989, 55 years later (!) He didn't change a bit. Hardly aged. If not for the white hair you'd think he was still that young. It must be alot easier staying a bochur...
Oh, did any of you see the Tolner Wikileaks?
You wanna discuss it?
Shall I upload it here?
87 comments:
Please do as most of us have no Idea what your talking about?
so I'm asking those that do, since some of you may call me a N-zi after you read it...
The Belzer Rov shlit"a really gets it there...
absolutly upload it here, oib nisht, tzu vos taigs du?
nit gidavent nit gelerent, nor geblogged, un dem vuzhe taigstdu aif der velt....?
who takke is on the left next to rayatz?
rashag?
nor tziyonim kenmen riffen nazis
Grainom
you disappoint me
RaSHaG?
are you kidding me?
nehhhh
it's רח"ל
zait maichel and fill me in, once i open my mouth you realize i know less thren i gave the impression of knowing, in certain inyonim anyways...
see above
chaim leib. who?
very funny, anon 8:02
rayatz had no brothers, so whats your point?
אחיו are his brothers in Poland, the Jews of Poland
No one in Poland was jealous of him , he was the laughing stock of all The rebbes in Poland the tamula he made for an of himself was uncomprehending for those times and still questionable toady
אז מ'איז מקנא לאכט מען
pray tell, what did they laugh about?
so this is the fifth style of head wear that i see him wear the week days ,
vuss tit men nisht far tuzres yisroel
I guess that's what they laughed at, the Polaken, eh?
is that it? maybe at his coat and kapote too?
sight seeing with the maskil chaim leiberman
MASKIL?
I thought he was a Tzaddik? I thought you Lubavitch haters loved him?
Oh, btw!
we're waiting for Yehupitz, Lex Luther, Klainer et al, together with the rest of the Belzer defensive line, to stand up and condemn the comments here.
[ fingers drumming, fist on cheek...]
Do you really think that Ger or Alexander or Amshinov were jealous of the Rayatz?
Isaac Balbin
did I say it was those three?
chaim leiberman from jts was ONLY considered not trief in lubavitch...
probably because of this picture.
who else lived in poilan?
Boris
stop embarrassing yourself and showing your עמארצות
there were 3 Million Jews in Poland, my friend. Ger was big, but not that big.
in chabad rcl was the librarian, a staunch chosid of the rebbe rayats and not of shlita
a million ger
a million alexander
half a million amshinov
half a million radomsk
nu put up the wikileaks
wow!
and I thought there were 2 Million Bundisten!
my bad.
nit kayn stira (r"l)
oh, ok
if so then you're right
but what about the Vorker and The Bobover and the Modzitzer and the Belzer, and on and on and on; do they not count?
and how many of the million Gerrer were Bundisten, and how many were "Oopgehiten?"
What's there to condemn? Nobody has said anything. It's just the usual one-line pusteh "snag" drivel.
Totally andersh from the lengthy intellectual-sounding hit-jobs you allowed into your home.
And yet not a word about your experience of Yud Shvat at the Ohel...
the rebbe only appointed his shver nossi hador after yud shvat, until then that position hadnt been formed yet.
belz and bobov aint poilen, dont confuse poilin with galitzia! c"v
ask a romanian if he is from hungary
or a russian if he is from the ukrain
...
I know Belz and Bobov are Galicia, but the 3 Million number included them too
lets see the tolna stuff.
is this the same heroic tolna that you were praising for his performance in or elchananan?
the same Heroic Tolner...
it's close to 500 pages, I need to see how to do it quickly, without slowing down the whole site
whats a upgehitine bundist?
post a scribid
let the tolner files out!!!
let it slow it down, im sure it will be worth the read.
whats the bounty on the tolners head?
same as machnovka, do as you please to him just dont cut his beard?
In Poland they had hardly heard of Lubavitch.Warsaw the capital had a handful of Lubavitchers.Once the Rayatz came Chabad made some inroads, specially because they had a good yeshiva and a rosh yeshiva like R'Yehuda eBBER, in the Litvishe shnit, with shiurim, room and board.Poland till then had almost only learning in the local shtibel or Chachmei Lublin which was almost impossible to get into unless you were an iluy or very smart+$$$(Zlotys)the regular smart bochur looking for a place was what Chabad latched on to
R'Chaim LIeberman:
His two volume Ohel Rachel is a classic in Jewish bibliography and Yiddish linguistics,was the Rayatzs' right hand man.Was one of the very few together with Rayatz,son-in-law,wife,grandchild to be saved by a half Jewish German Officer, through Berlin, in the early stages of the War.
Quoted as saying he knows who forged the Chersoner Genizah, the story that cost Lubavitch a lot of credence because of their insistence that this clear forgery is actually true.
Reb Chaim never married.A tragic life, never married, a scholar and gentleman
The Tolna wikileaks as they pertain to Belz is only a very small part of the file. Just post that part.
If I'm not mistaken, there's a whole mayse/shtikel? with "v'yikanu bo echav", maybe a line our Rebbe used once..
Can't recall it now, fill us in.
Are you implying jealousy that cl stayed a bochur and u nebach have a rachayim al tzavaro?
At leats post a link so we can download the tolner stuff
Tumeler Rebbe
"No one in Poland was jealous of him , he was the laughing stock of all The rebbes in Poland"
To get to Poland from Russia, on new grounds, and creating Yeshivahs that had talmidim over 2000 bucherim, is no ground for laugter, in my small minded brain. Most of the talmidim were Benai Aliya you can see it on the few that survived. Outside of Ger nobody laughed, they could not take a outsider coming to Poland their claimed territory for close to a century,with no bitul what so ever of the Gerer Machine, He wrote his letters against Aguda with no fear, they were not used to that Chutzpa.
Anon 8;17
"so this is the fifth style of head wear that i see him wear the week days "
obviously he believed we did not get the Besht and Achiye Hashiloni, to create a wardrobe and special garb for every fiefdom with 20 Chasidim,
WHOA!!
That was a challenge! But I did succeed in downloading it.
No idea why you restricted download & Print.
Thanks a lot
It's interesting to note that at the Rebbe's chasuna in Poland almost every Rebbe of note was there in addition to other luminaries such as Reb Menachem Ziemba HY"D.I know so not through the highly prejudicial nefarious Lubavitch propaganda machine but heard it from my father A"H who was there at the time as well as my paternal grandparents HY"D.So much for the RAYAT"Z being a non entity in Poilen.
ויקנאו בו אחיו was indeed used by the Rebbe to describe the tekufa in Poland. The FR originally moved to Warsaw, but due to ailing health and redifus from certain kanoim in (iirc) Ger (Reportedly caused the closeness between R' Menachem Zemba and the FR ), he moved to Otwock.
Arthur,
I do not know who was there, but I do know that R Yosel Amshinover and his kids ran out of the hall when they saw white gloves...I heard it from the Amshinover Rebbe BP Zal.
Artur
Its a bit of a Freudian slip that you mention the Rebbes wedding in Warsaw, in the same post that is debating to download Tolner Wikileakes.
I have downloaded it Very intense stuff It reflects the humane side of Rebbes daily routine. There the Pnei Menechem ztl is being quoted that Reb Menchaem Zemba Hyd ran out of the hall when the couple arrived. So Tvig you better know what you are posting!!
nor RMZ, the Radziner Rebbe, and that's not true, since we all know that the RR read the kesubah at the Chasunah
Besides, because of white gloves you run away from a chasunah??? I could understand if it was mixed, but gloves??? are you kidding me? they never went to a modern chasunah by one of their chassidishe gevirim, or were never mesader kidushin by a modern couple?
Please.
פיילישע פאנטאזיעס
Who was it, the Amshonover or Reb Menachem Zembe? Considering the fact that the Pnei Menachem was born in 1926, I doubt he had any first hand memories of the chasuna.
Hershel,
Talking about fantasias... Rayatz's zichroines are not fantasias???
Read "Yemos Oilem" from Amshinov- ou will understand why they ran away.
ANY modernkeit they had a problem with- even carpets :)
Besides the fact Amshinover was there himself.
Each to his own and harbe druchim l'mukoim. You are forgetting this a lot, Hershel.
my friend
we all know what Poland was like in those days. They may have been anti-carpet, but you don't "run away" from a chosson with a beard wearing a modern suit. I guarantee you lots of mekurovim to the Amshinover looked like that and worse. Just like the Radomsker had the Bessers and Koshickis.
Did they "run away" from all their Chassidim's wives too?
הרבה דרכים, yes, but not this one
Amshinov BP
"but I do know that R Yosel Amshinover and his kids ran out of the hall when they saw white gloves."
was Reb Shimele Amshinover also at that wedding? since he was a great yedid for the Bies Horav.
Mottel
" Considering the fact that the Pnei Menachem was born in 1926, I doubt he had any first hand memories of the chasuna.'
You are 100% correct, even he was the Rebbes son, his info on that event was fed by Rechiles that circled in Ger
"Just like the Radomsker had the Bessers and Koshickis."
Afaik R'Chatkel Besser dressed chasidic asa bochur
I don't recall about Reb Chatzkel
I'm speaking about his father, Reb Naftoli
"the Radziner Rebbe"
all the peilishe daily yiddish newspaper of that era wrote that the Radziner was kesuba Lienen,
Interesting that in the minds of all Lunbavitchers everyone is a "yedid".Off course besides everyone who was not.
Lubavitch has proven to be many of the things serious rabbunim were afraid of
Yeruchem
"Quoted as saying he knows who forged the Chersoner Genizah, the story that cost Lubavitch a lot of credence because of their insistence that this clear forgery is actually true."
I know that the Chabad enemies are wearing this statement on their lapels, but it is still very hard to believe, it was discussed on this site many times so I will will not chew it again. But a point or two,why on earth did the Guraries invest money on manuscript of a famous forger? Were all their investments so bad?Why did Bigeleisen (grandfather of moshe and shlome)a Seforim Maven print many letters from a famous forger? why did reb Sruel Chortkover give a haskoma for manuscript of a famous forger? If you read the letters of the Maryatz, you will reliaze that before every purchase in Lubavich,he was his maven on all libraries and manuscripts, how come he did not take the obvious advice? It smells from a lie it walks like a lie, I know that the Publisher and writers of Yeshurun Anti Chabad Rag (sorry for name calling a prestigous periodical but from the last few Gilyonois, it comes across that all the torah is just like the Newspaper wrapping around a shtikel farshtinkener fish)invested alot of borscht on this story, but I still choose not to believe them.
Shimon
I tought that everybodies life goes like that, that you are my Yedid, unless you proven otherwise.
According to the Tolner Wikeleakes, The Radziner ran out, because the couple arrived together on a Buggy.
",why on earth did the Guraries invest money on manuscript of a famous forger"
MUCH bigger chachumim fell by Madoff!
Next?
Anon2:31
It's better nisht ibberkayen this mayseh again but nobody with any serious mevines took this seriously after checking it out.
Try not to bring silly raayes from people who fell.Ever heard of the fake Yerushalmy, with chusheveh haskumos?
Lehavdil,ever heard of Hitlers diaries???
And anyway, the tayna is not on making the mistake, the tayneh is ayn akshening once they were shown it...
Anonyous 2:31
Btw, you cracked me up when you, an anonymous poster, who probably is a oholei torah yingel with an iphone, accusing Yeshurun of being a "rag".
Lol
Yeruchem
"",why on earth did the Guraries invest money on manuscript of a famous forger"
MUCH bigger chachumim fell by Madoff!
Next?"
what a great answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Anon2:31
"It's better nisht ibberkayen this mayseh again but nobody with any serious mevines took this seriously after checking it out.
Try not to bring silly raayes from people who fell.Ever heard of the fake Yerushalmy, with chusheveh haskumos?"
the Marashams did not have a gabai that knew for sure that it is forged and it was not public knowledge yet , the people that visited Chaim Lieberman claim that the seller was a famous forger.
Yeruchem
"who probably is a oholei torah yingel with an iphone"
Not exactly, please don't give for a Oholie Torah kid so much credit, that he should know about the Gaas Ruach Gottesmans shenanigans.
But you can still laugh,
ויקנאו בו אחיו was indeed used by the Rebbe to describe the tekufa in Poland.
-----
So the jealousy drivel wasn't invented by Hirshel Tzig, but was the CR's own perspective? Ok then, it must be a divine view. Why didn't anyone tell us about this all along?
ווי א יון אין סוכה
Do the Lubavitchers who read this blog see the author say "nusey hador" and think 'he is one of us'
or do they chap that you are just trying to push buttons?
Nu, where are the Wikileaks ?
Speaking of Amschinow, why would you be surprised with any behaviour, especially an excercise and a statement in kitzoniyus, from an offshoot and a noisei keileihem of Kock/Wurke ? (although it probably would be the very last thing expected from R"Y Wurker zy"a, that was limited to himself and just as very personal and unpredictable)
hirshel,
Belzer defensive line is ready and able for the big game on sunday. can you tell me where the tolner-belzer play-book is among the 500 pages of poilishe play action and russishe red dogging ? Lex and Yehupitz are getting impatient...
this is not in Poland - it is in the USA,
The Frierdiker Rebbe arrived in the USA Adar 9 5700.
can you please upload it so jnet users can also have access
I guess all the Kinah qualifies one as Nosi HaDor.
Amshinover BP:
I gave my copy of Yemos Oilem to Rabbi Groner z"l after it came out. Do you know where I can get a copy now? I'm also interested in other Seforim if they exist!
Isaac Balbin
Klainer
Look at page 407. There is plenty more, but this shuld be enough to get the dice rolling.
Well, Looks like the Pnei Menachem Ztl did not fargin the Belzer. After all Ger has only 400 chasidiem and Belz has 100000...
anony 5:56pm
Thank you for the page reference.If you find other references please let us know.
Re:Wikileaks p.407
Guess who was the sandek at the bris of R.A.M. of Belz?
hint:his name is Reb Yisroel, his last name is Alter and he's known as the Beis Yisroel of Ger.It would appear that perhaps he had an opinion differing from that of his brother.Otherwise, he would have declined the kibud.
Klainer
the beis yisroel was sandek for alot of Kanape Tzadikim
The rayatz caused a problem for Poland and its rebbes and Chasidim here was a rebbe who fought communism in its home base with a mesiras nefesh bepoyel mamash in Russia set up yeshivos and chadorim in Russia the base of communism and succeeded a person himself without changing any thing that he was mekabel from his father
In Poland to fight the budisten the Zionism the communist mizrochi the polisher rebbes had to have the help of the german yekes and set up a library a girl schools a mesivtah with limudei chol all is the german way to fight reform how did reb pinchus cohen maspid leo deutchlander the founder of beis yakov brother leo you have brought the light from the west to the dark masses of the east
But the ryatz to fight communism in Russia did not have to use the ways of the west
Annon
where is this hesped printed?
but you have to agree that the Gerrer rebbe was succesfull in stopping the bleeding
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