Tuesday, February 22, 2011

The Story behind the picture


The picture.





The story. (courtesy of "Tiferes Yisroel Ruzhin")

Are all the facts listed here correct? Anybody? I did not know that the Horenstein to whom's levaya the Rebbe went to the East Side was Mendel's brother. I also think that the Rebbe was so concerned about whether or not the Boyaner Rebbe - or Chassidim, rather - allowed for their Rebbe to be touched, shows his concern and respect for the minhogim of other kreizen, as well as the privacy of another human being - if I may so myself.

52 comments:

Shmuly said...

What a beautiful story, on so many different levels!

Anonymous said...

A few inaccuracies & more:

1) In fact, R' Shlomo Horenstein was a COUSIN (not brother) to the Rebbe's shvoger, R. Mendel HY"D.

2) The letter connotes that R. Shlomo was the "Yisroel" the Rebbe gave mishloach manos to. Factually, however, the Rebbe gave to 3 of his chassidim in such a fashion, and R. Hodakov was the "Yisroel" [AND to those who got from the FR as well],
AND *additionally*, gave, through shluchim, Rabbonim and Admorim in the NY area, amongst whom was R. Shlomo.

Amongst the others (I don't have a complete list): The Amshinover, Boyaner, and Kopischnetz Rebbes (when the latter was niftar, the Rebbe gave his son). And R. Moshe Twersky-Schneersohn, Tomshopol-Kvidonov Rebbe.

The Rebbe would send a bottle of mashke and 2 fruits, and they would send back similar.

3) For more details on this bikur, R. Leibel Alevsky (shliach in Cleveland) would know, as he was the Rebbe's driver then, as he related to me.

[Agav, RLA once visited the previous Skverre Rebbe, who told him (amongst other points?) that the Rebbe sends him every new sefer that comes out from Kehos].

Anonymous said...

too short a article for such a picture
what it this picture???

PLEASE REWRITE

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 2:41pm

do you read Hebrew?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 2:39

so was Reb Shlomo not MiBeis HoRav?

if he wasn't Reb Mendel's brother then he wasn't a GS of the Rebbe MaHaRaSH.

Anonymous said...

"Agav, RLA once visited the previous Skverre Rebbe, who told him (amongst other points?) that the Rebbe sends him every..."

In the early 60's Rebbitzen Chana was in the hospital. The Rebbe visited her and used the opportunity to do a bikkur cholim visit to the previous Skverrer who was in the same hospital. This is AFAIK the only time they met.

52 street said...

We need more research on this.
When did this take place?
I highly doubt this was a brother of R'M Horenstein.
But it must be one of the few pics of the rebbe at a non lubavitch ceremony after he became rebbe

Anonymous said...

To Hirshel 3:14 -
I hear, but that's what the books say. Maybe it was to accord a "mechutan" the honors, esp as R. Mendel etc weren't around to do it..?

To anon 3:34
Ok, but read what I wrote. They may not have met otherwise, but had inyonim SENT to each other, and other correspondence etc IIRC.

Do you know what they spoke of then? Is it recorded anywhere? (Well it really depends if chassidim went with, or if there were Skver chasidim present..)

russian chusid said...

R.Shlomo's Hornst. wife was a lubavither einikel-how i do not know. And , yes, he was a first cousin to LR shvoger, not a brother(IN RUSSIAN, AGAV, COSIN IS CALLED A BROTHER :))-their fathers were brothers-Shmuel (Mendel's father )and Yoel.(Shlomos brother)

This was on Sunday,13 ELUL 1967.
He did not leave any kids (his only osgebetener son died in his life time,unmarried).

What a end of a great choshiver chasidisher mishpoche!!!

52 street said...

Russian Chusid,
Did you know him?

Hirshel,
I believe that this pic qualifies for a "pirsum rishon" award

russian chusid said...

this young ... who wrote this article, is a typical haintege no- nothings-UNBELIEVABLE!!!

It is like today's Rosh chabiros in boyan are sayiing:

GROICE CHASIDIM USE TO COME TO DEM RIZHINER FROM 12 ELUL UNTIL 3 CHESHVAN CHA CHA CHA(I hope everybody caught the joke:))

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

52
this pic has been around for along time and has a watermark already. So no PR award this time

52 street said...

"this pic has been around for along time"

Maybe,
I don't think Lubavitcher places have published it, maybe because the rebbe is seen playing second fiddle here.
Anyway for me it was a chidush

nomy said...

I checked on Google Earth at 247 East Broadway,10002, where the Boyaner shtiebel is until this very day. It does not look like the picture, nor does the adjoing building.

russian chusid said...

No, but i do know a lot about Hornstein family and their bitter end - do not forget, they were one of the shenster mishpuches in Russia.

The only ehrlicher einlach they have are (non Hornsteins-that's finished)are Lubavitch and chasidei yerusholaim chevra.

russian chusid said...

NOMY

It was there,BRO.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"The Rebbe visited her and used the opportunity to do a bikkur cholim visit to the previous Skverer who was in the same hospital."
this is a very big scoop, does Shaye Unger or the current Skverer Rebbe know about it, he knows every move of his father.
Btw, the Rachmistrivker of BP told a friend of mine, that his FIL had a positive view of the Rebbe in his later years.

Anonymous said...

Nomy
they had a westside shtibel too?

grainom said...

hey this was the 2nd time he left kan tziva besides going to the ohel!
once he went to camp and this levaya!

russian chusid said...

grainim

...and he was sitting in a car by t he Boyaner Rebbes levya too. I heard it from eidei ria.

Freidrick said...

When did the Lubavitchers decide that the Rebbe is literally 'untouchable'? When the Rebbe went, in the yuds, to the first Gan Chabad in the catskills (and spoke about how Moshiach is gonna come from such camps) did anyone shake his hand?

[A keen observer, would note that in that infamous youtube video, Rav Kahanah actually touches the Rebbe; a clear no-no, at that time]

Anonymous said...

52 street:
If שמן ששון מחבריך from S.B. Wolpo counts as a Lubavitcher publication then this picture was printed by Lubavitch.
Do your research before you write stupid things

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Fred

the Rebbe gave sholom to hundreds of people who were not Lubavitch, so R' Kahane's touch would not be "no-no"

In Chabad there was no minhag of giving sholom, so the kids would not give sholom then.

Anonymous said...

Grainom:
and to the hospital to visit his mother.

Anonymous 770 said...

Shlomo Horenstein husband of Devorah Leah, the daughter of Shayne Broche Dolitzky, who was the daughter of R.YY shneerson of Avratz which makes Shayne Brocha the sister of Shterna Soroh, wife of the Rashab which makes Shlomo and the Rebbe first cousins once removed by marriage.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

THANK YOU ANONYMOUS770!

Fredreck said...

So when did he become untouchable by the chassidim?

Anonymous 770 said...

The Rebbe next to the Boyaner is the Mezhibuzher Rebbe of the Bronx,Admor Reb Yitzhok Meir Heschel, BIL of the Kapishnitzer. The Admor,a leader of Mizrachi in America, was nifter in Israel.

russian chusid said...

770
Not BIL, BUT A FIRST COUSIN.
THEIR FATHERS WERE BROTHERS.

Anonymous said...

Friedrik
"When did the Lubavitchers decide that the Rebbe is literally 'untouchable"
it is a Rambam in Hilchas Talmud Torah that you don't shake your Rebbes hand,

52 street said...

Where is this Rambam?
Do you have a mareh mokom?

Anonymous said...

Pictures of the Horenstien family. Doesn't look too chasidish to me...

http://soc.qc.cuny.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/horensztajn_family.jpg

http://soc.qc.cuny.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Horensztejn-family-Otwock.jpg

http://soc.qc.cuny.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/6_Horenstein-Mendel_Pictu-Warsaw-Unithumb.jpg

-- ZIY

Anonymous said...

it has always been the minhag in lubavitch that a chossid doesn't shake the rebbe's hand (i am referring to all the lubavitcher rebbeim)

other chassidim who would come to the rebbe would shake his hand, sefardim and some poilishers would kiss his hand, all according to their custom. i recally seeing a sefardi kissing the rebbe's beard by 'dollars'. the rebbe never objected to any of this.

interestingly, in the first tekufah of the rebbe's nesius, chassidim would show that they have accepted him as rebbe also by not shaking his hand. at times he would accept displeasure to that (before he formally accepted the nesius).

why don't you ask before making moronic comments on 'untouchable'...

Anonymous said...

Being the picture was of teh Boyaner Rebbe

Does anyone know what 'training' the current Rebbe received when taken from his parents at age 10/11 until he became the next Rebbe ?

What did they teach him ?
What was his schedule ?
Was he allowed to mix with other children ?


How did he dress at his bar-mitzvah ?

Anonymous said...

1) Re shaking hands --
The Rebbe told the Belzer Ruv (in 5741 yechidus), when the latter put out his hand, "bei unz git mehn nit sholom.."

Besides the audiotape that's out there, rumors are that there's a video of that Yechidus too (maybe given out as a teshura or the like?). If anyone can provide info, many thanks!

2) If someone has "Toras Menachem Menachem Tzion" (2 vols) on them, maybe there's something the Rebbe said here, or with the Boyaner otherwise - to share with the oilam?

russian chusid said...

Does anyone know what 'training' the current Rebbe received when taken from his parents at age 10/11 until he became the next Rebbe ?

HE was taken away at 16, not 10-11 after "leaving'' Chasan Sofer. He learned with the high-end members of Yerusholaim boyaner mafia whole week (nigle only) and 1/2 hour a week (!!!!) chasidus with Reb Nute Tseinvert zal. tO THE REAL CHASIDISHER YIDDEN HE HAD ALMOST NO SHAICHUS.



What was his schedule ?

same as a yeshiva bucher.

Was he allowed to mix with other children ?

NO-HE LEARNED IN OITSER HASFURIM, NOT IN MAIN HALL.


How did he dress at his bar-mitzvah ?

SAME AS HIS BROTHER.

russian chusid said...

ANON 3.57

Shmuel was a chasidisher yid, but his kids were not. Yoel had MUCH better kids-some of them were considered real gdoilim bchasidus (Avrumche from Kiev, Yosel from TA, Yakov fom Moscow(his only daughter is lubavitch -Michlin)).

Shmuel is dressed like a Russian Yidisher gvir, which he was.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

“In Chabad there was no minhag of giving sholom, so the kids would not give sholom then.”

When the Belzer Rebbe came to visit in 82, his entourage gave the Rebbe Shalom, which the Rebbe graciously returned. Word spread in CH that there was a once in a lifetime chance to give the Rebbe Shalom, and the place was packed with Lubavitchers chopping arien.

Anonymous said...

I posted earlier that the Rebbe didn't shake hands with the BR.

I must admit, he did "l'chvod dem gast.." (See end of page) -

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4627&st=&pgnum=841

It must be noted, however, that R, Laufer of Ashdod put out a more accurate reshima of the Yechidus, acc to the tape etc, and sold it in EY as a kuntres of its own. (Same he did with the Yechidus with the heintege Gerrer Rebbe in the 5730s).

As always, with his extensive footnotes..

bpunbound said...

I had heard that the Rebbe also attended the levaye of R' Shimale Amshinover in BP (and that there was a photo attesting to that?!). Can anyone confirm that?

glove said...

the rebbi wore white gloves (in addition to his brown suit) at his wedding to avoid giving his hand as costom in poland, the rebbi married in warsaw.

spinka said...

in hungary chassidim kissed and kissed the reir rabbi`s hand, in kerestier even the woman kiised the great tzadiks garments, and somtimes even his hand, the holy reb shyeile was like father, even though this was not the costom in liska.

fan of Twistelton said...

"I posted earlier that the Rebbe didn't shake hands with the BR.

I must admit, he did "l'chvod dem gast.." (See end of page) "

Don't argue with Twistelton. He is always right!!

lozmirup said...

Twistelton-Twistelton said...
When the Belzer Rebbe came to visit in 82, his entourage gave the Rebbe Shalom, which the Rebbe graciously returned. Word spread in CH that there was a once in a lifetime chance to give the Rebbe Shalom, and the place was packed with Lubavitchers chopping arien"

Were you there? I recall it a little different. First it think it was '81 (5741). He came early afternoon, around 1:30 PM. He was there about an hour. The Rebbe shook hands with the people who accompanied him inside the room. After the Rebbe walked him out, there were several belzer chassidim there who stuck out their hands (nemen shoolem in their lingo). The Rebbe said "hagam es iz nisht unzer minhag, uber lichvoid di orchim..."
(wording not exact). He then shook each one who was there (about 30 guys) and that was it. There wasn't a mad rush of chassidim "chapping arein" and it lasted for under 2 minutes.

BTW, when the yechidus started, the Rebbe asked him to take off his coat. The story goes that he was wearing a bulletproof vest courtesy of mayor koch and didn't want to show it. so he said "ich ben gekimen doo unvarmen". About 45 minutes into the yechidus, he tried to get the Rebbe to say something negative about satmar. And the Rebbe responded, "vos darf men reden b'genuson shel yisroel". After this he realized he failed at his main mission and wrapped up and left.

Anonymous said...

this whole hand shaking is nonsense, by dollars you can see 100's of people shaking hands, and sefardim kiss his hands, you are making hay of noting.

Anonymous said...

"hey this was the 2nd time he left kan tziva besides going to the ohel!
once he went to camp and this levaya!"

The Rebbe also went to Satmar to be Menachem Avel, and he once paid a return visit to the Rachmastrivker (not sure R' Yochanan or his son) to an address in Willy (details by Mendel Baumgarten who drove him there).

michael said...

the picture was taken by Rabbi Tzvi (harry ) Bronstein my grandfather i have the original negative that it was printed from

russian chusid said...

MICHAEL,

PLEASE CONTACT ME ABOUT THIS PICTURE
IGOR@THEJNET.COM

Anonymous said...

this picture was posted a few years ago on ivelt, It was then identified by Badatz who wrote the following:

ב''ה
דער בילד איז גענומען געווארען בייא דיא לוי' פין ר' שלמה הכהן הארנשטיין בא''ב פין סמיכת חכמים פין
דיא שטאט ראדימושעל באוקריינא . וואס אלע צדיקים האבען זעך משדך גווען מיט דיא משפחה .
זיין ווייב איז געווען א ערשטע קאזינע מיט ריי''צ מליובאוויטש .זיא איז געווען איין אווריטשער אייניקעל .
זייא האבען געהאט א בן יחיד וואס האט געהייסען יוסף יצחק .
דיא לוי' איז געווען אלול תשכ''ו .אין פראנט פין באיאנער קלויז אין דער איסט סייד 247 איסט בראדוועי .

''REAL'' Ruzhiner chusid said...

1. Since when is there a boyaner mafia?
2.He did have contact with everybody. He wanted to be locked in to the oitzer.
3. He had shaichis with all boyaner chasidim, even with buchirim.

''REAL'' Ruzhiner chusid said...

The Mezhibuzher Rebbe was a Brother in Law of the Boyaner Rebbe and Sadigere- Pshemishel Rebbe as they were both son in law's of his father R' Yisroel Sholom Yosef of Mezhibuzh.

''REAL'' Ruzhiner chusid said...

The Mezhibuzher Rebbe was a Brother in Law of the Boyaner Rebbe and Sadigere- Pshemishel Rebbe as they were both son in law's of his father R' Yisroel Sholom Yosef of Mezhibuzh.
He was not a BIL of the kapichnitzer Rebbe as stated.