The periodical Or Hatzafon, published by Belz in Yerushalayim, that recently incurred the wrath of the Satmar Chassidim for daring to say that the previous Belzer Rov was correct in changing his approach to Zionism and the State of Israel, , even when it seemed different pre-ww2, at least as far as looking out for the welfare of our fellow Yidden. Read on, you'll see what I mean.
Or Hatzafon Kislev 5771- אור הצפון כסלו תשע"א Belz on State of Israel
109 comments:
Where are all the vilde critics of the Belzer Rov now? Or Hatzofun is published under the authority and approval of the current Belzer Rov.Will the great "Gevezener Belzer" admit that the current Rebbe's shite concerning a yiddishe medineh is correct and the kanoim and their satmerer handlers are advocating a policy that would mean a total catastrophe for millions of Jews in Eretz Yisroel Ch'V.Let's see an eloquent discourse now on the visciousness of these hate-filled kanoim and their siluf of the shite of Rav Aharon of Belz ZT"L.Perhaps you can be "machabed" the "gevezener" with another guest posting?
Klainer
The current Belzer has yet to decide on which politcal platform he stands for. One day he is a hawk the other day he is a dove. According to the OH the Belzer Rov Zua was against the policy of returning the occupied territories, the Belzer however was the first Rebbe to openly support the peace process. Lately in his State-of-union he was pondering over the fact that the peace process has come to a dead end. So is he right, is he left? or is he bi-partisan?
the belzer ruv isnt part of the hisachdes hurabunim and owes them nothing , to him rodney and hooper are all the same ,school district or no school district,belz's problems has nothing to do with shleimes hu
'oretz , or the koisel which the aaroinim erected amidst the beis hachaim,the biggest daageh in belz is if A.M is as capable as his father time will tell
Klainer
I realize that you really lowered the bar for todays Tzadikim, That we have to give them kudos for not lying.It is a fact that Belzer Ruv was the Ohev Yisroel and was against returning, any land that was gained by the wars. It is documented in the Dvar Yeshua, So you would like that we should credit him for that
After years of running this blog you don't get that nobody gives a flying fig about this cruddy subject?
Man, STOP BEING SO DENSE!
Joe
you need to get out more
please stop referring to it as returning land. its is mesiras shtochim not hachzoras shtochim.
it is yiddens land as is stated in the torah.
obviously this is undisputed but it shouldnt become a habit of referring to it as returning land (this implies it isnt ares). its giving away land.
the belz rav of yerushalyim keeps od changing his mind, look at his siddur he prints, there are no two prints alike, versions upon versions.
i guess a big hagpeida in belz is to change you mind the more the better.
when i say belz it means a small village next to the big town of lemberg, where a number of jews lived, and a fraction of those survived and their grandchildren give their money to rabbi yisucha dov rokeach whose grandfather also lived in the mentioned village, and served their as the town cheif rabbi until his ptirah.
Bobov chusid:what are you talking about in plain Terkish? Lemberg ,Belz-what's the story?
Mamash kinno and sineh. Belz changes his mind at leats he unlike most rebbe"s has a mind !
Belz , Telz, Beltz, Meltz, Brisk Trisk . Lvow Bobov, lemberh, hamburg, anyone know where I can get a Glatt kosher franfurter betaam hungari ?
Its funny how the Satmer is always on the hunt to hijack any Gadol by proclaiming and rewriting history that this one and that one also "gasserd de bechieers". Why are they lacking so much confidence? To be honest the Satmar ruv zl, other than the Belzer ruv zua and the Tchibener ruv Zl, in my humble opinion the rest of the elections endorsers did not reach the magnitude of the Satmar Ruv Zl. He was from a different league altogether. His caliber was unmatcable. I personally go to the elections, however I can not forget the radiant face of this holy Rebbe. So why are they so unconfident in his policy??
It reminds me of Rabbi wolpe campaign that all the Gedoilem were massive fans of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Zl. (Sorry, for the disillusioned Wopler it should be Shlita). A genuine Lubavitcher (if it still exists such a thing) could not care less if Baba Sali was a fan or not.
Why criticize the great Lakewooder Rosh Yeshiveh for giving koved to the publisher-editor-admor in chief of the newspaper of record called the Yid d'haynne Grand Rabbin Z.L. TT"L of Rodney St. when it's so much more fun to charge the Belzer Rov with being "unable to make up his mind." Unlike Sakmer the radios in Belz are tuned to kol israel not al-jazeera...Check "Rebbe Clips" for the historic meeting between the two preeminent world leaders.
Belzer today is to RA what Sarkozy is to Louis XIV
Belz today is to RA what the 2011 Yankees are to the '56 Yanks
Belz today is to RA what Adam HaSandler is to Groucho Marx
אוי וויי
היינטיגע בעלזער ווייסן צו זאכן פון די זאכען???
Anon
"in my humble opinion the rest of the elections endorsers did not reach the magnitude of "
who were they can we get a list? who was the rosh in Mir then? or in Ponovizh?
Wheres my Belz Blog??? said...
Open your own blog die fohler galitzianer.
Who wasn't in the league? Chazon Ish? Reb Moshe Feinshtein? (Both incomprehensible Geonim, who were giants that towered over the Stamerer). I also guarantee you that had Reb Avraham Mordche Gerer (I won't say this about the Beis Yisroel) been alive his opinion would have been pro Bechiros etc, and he also was head and shoulders above the Satmerer (RAM was from the unparalleled giants who strode the earth in the 20th century).
The reasons the Satamerer Chasidim have to find who agreed with them is quite simple, since they present him not only as an holy man, but the absolute leader of Klall Yisroel, but the stubborn fact is that he was only the leader of a tiny radical Hungarian wing, so they desperately try to alter the facts)
Ich bin takeh fohl. Der Rebbe in Cheider hat mir ge'rif'en "A fohle Shtrik".
Seriously, I offered to help you, explained that you need to start off w decent content, but I'm more interested in Belz fin a mool.
You mean R Yoelish wasnt Nosi HaDor?
"The reasons the Satamerer Chasidim have to find who agreed with them is quite simple, since they present him not only as an holy man, but the absolute leader of Klall Yisroel, but the stubborn fact is that he was only the leader of a tiny radical Hungarian wing, so they desperately try to alter the facts)"
You are obviously viewing this through your distorted Chabatzker lenses.
The reason why Satmar is convinced that most of the Gedoley Yisroel agreed (at least theoretically) with Rabayney Yoel, was because they think that his view was the incontrovertable truth. Henc, it would be incomprehensible for Gedoley Olam to disagree with it.
This is the exact opposit of you (fech) people who think there was only one superman, and was the "noseeey" by default (not by election). Aderaba, you (in a certain manner) like it when the the-Rebbe stood alone on issues, because that somehow - in your distorted Chabatzker lenses - indicates that only the the-Rebbe existed.
Anon
"You are obviously viewing this through your distorted Chabatzker lenses"
I dont think that anon Writer is a Lubavicher,
Anon
"The reason why Satmar is convinced that most of the Gedoley Yisroel agreed (at least theoretically) with Rabayney Yoel, was because they think that his view was the incontrovertable truth. Henc, it would be incomprehensible for Gedoley Olam to disagree with it."
was reb yoelish not superman in Willi (FOOOOO)?
Can we get some modicum of correct grammar and just plain English here?Maybe some sort interpreter should be hired to explain the explosion of incomprehensible posts.
I don't understand. The Alter Belzer Ruv says explicitly here not to give back shtochim SO LONG AS IT IS NOT B'GEDER EVEN SOFEK SAKONAS NEFOSHES & PIKUCH NEFESH. But if it is, I suppose he would agree that you SHOULD give it back.
The whole debate between the Gedolim & Rebbes then & now is if giving back shtochim constitutes preventing the loss of Jewish life or not. One side is of the view not to be misgareh b'umos & to always give back everything; in that way we save Jewish life (Satmer etc.). Another side holds not to give back even one inch, because any concession will lead to loss of Jewish life (Labavitch etc.). & then there are those in the middle who see it as a case-by-case issue (Belz, Rav Shach etc.). Keyn nireh LFA"D haklushah.
-- ZIY
Hi there Klainer, nice of you to think of me though I'm not sure how the hantiger Belzer comes into this. It is thanks to the Machnivker's (one Belz only to me)Or Linsivosi that we have the OH. The archiyon has been collecting for decades but the chief curator has been guarding it jealously. History is nisht far cheider yinglech.
Though like the Rov I'm more into architecture than history, in my humble opinion R'A was far more mizrachi than anyone is prepared to admit. His comments often come close to those of R' Aryeh Levin. There have been even even better stories in OH of him taking a different stance to his father R'YD.
See the comment above from 'Wheres my Belz Blog???'. di zeist viazoi der rov's vinkel zet ois? Architects, historians, movie buffs, sports fans. mir hobn zich nisht mit vos tsi shemn akegn tzi gein moshiachn.
"Twins! Boy and Girl!
Schneur and Tzippy (nee Gourarie) Schneerson (Newbury Park, CA)
1 Mazal Tov Wish!" -crownheights info
(tzig: optimize your search options for posts/comments. i can't find the thread and this always happens.)
Assorted Belzer Batlonim and Chnoykes: It's obvious that the ratings for Belz are second only to postings dealing with The Bais Harav in Lubavitch.So stop complaining and get your act together.
Anon 8.39
I do not recall Reb Moshe zl endorsing the elections. In general they only recruited the Gedolim from Israel. The Cazon Ish's stance on the elections is one of controversy. Some say he backed it some say he was against it, some say he had a passive stance for the issue. One thing is definite, he did not sigh any pamphlet calling to participate in the elections and he himself did not vote. (BTW The Belzer Rov Zua also did not vote.)
Gevezner
The Belzer Rov Zua was no were near Mizrachi. Yes, he was far from the Neturei Karta and he supported the elections. However the fundamental view regarding Zionism did not change. He was very against Ivrit and there are plenty of stories how he would not come out to the Tish if there were some Mizrachi leaders. (One of them was the late Dr Burg)
I don't have a Chabad lens, since I am not Chabad. And indeed perhaps Chabad suffers from similar ailment, I am not so familiar with that.
The idea that Satmar thinks that Reb Yoel was the only one and the ultimate leader who brooks no dissent, was quite evidenced by their terror regime they ruled over in the past fifty years when they desecrated and vandalized every Aguda Shul in Brooklyn in the nights of leil shisi, when the students if Talmudical Academy were set free, for their cardinal sin that they dared not to follow the Holy Shito.
Its clear by they way they behaved in their successful campaigns to snuff out any powerful figure who was threatening the reign of RASHKBAG REb Yoel (as the Kluasenborger etc) that they were sure that Reb Yoel is the Manhig hador (their term was Zadik hador)and whoever doesn't accept this reality will be harassed and bludgeoned into absolute submission. (Reb Moshe, they also harassed to no end since his opinions weren't in agreement with the Rebbe). Reb Yoels utter disdain for anyone and anything that didn't accept his dictates and worldview, are quite known.
The Belzer in his (in?)famous S.T., 1981 when he was under the clutches of the terror machine, already made the observation about their totalitarian world view and impulses. He spelled it out quite clearly.
(Brisk, for example, also is sure that they are one hundred percent right in their narrow views, but they don't harass others and aren't into forcing others to accept that view).
I don't no either, if Reb Moshe of Chazon Ish, endorsed explicitly elections, but their lack of Machoe regarding elections, which the Satmerer held is heresy, idolatry and the ultimate act of revolt against Torah, makes it clear to me that they weren't in agreement with him, if any of those held a view remotely similar to Satmer, they wold be able to prevent thousands from participating in the elections.
Even Brisker Rav (whom the Satmarer mentions approvingly as the Only Gadol besides the Tchebiner, when he spoke to the RA of Belz) wasn't of the opinion that the elections were acts of blasphemy and desecration. He famously quipped that Bechiros is not such a Mitzva (as the Aguda claims) and not such sin (as the Satmerer avers. The calm ambivalence from some one who ran the uncompromising campaign against Heichal Shlomo, is quite telling regarding a act that the SR wrote his magnum opus about.
As for the Chazon Ish and Bechiros
There is no controversy, look in Pe'er Hador and you will see him sitting with Chaverei Hakeneset.
I have a personal story attesting to to the Chazon Ish's view.
The famous Reb Dovid Leib Schwaartz known as the 'feter' [of almonos and yesomim] who was also a well known viznitzer chosid.
Told me, yes to me!
That when the first bechiros came around he was at the time learning in the Valozhin Kollel in Benei Brak and the kollel yungeliet had an ongoing hot debate if they should participate.
"איך האב מיך אויף געהויבען און אריבער געגאנגען צום חזון איש און איך האב אים פארציילט וואס עס גייט פאר אין דעם כולל וואלאזשין אין א מחלוקת וכו' צו מ'זאל גיין צו בחירות צו נישט האט ער געגעבען א קוק אויף מיר, אין געזהייסן
"איר זאלט גייען קלייבען!" זי"ע והרוצה לשקר ירחיק עדותו
Yosef 718
The argument about the Belzer Rebbe, that since his father was so opposed to Zionism and since he was so mekusher to his father ...blah blah... is so crazy.
If Reb Sucher Ber was so opposed even to Mizrachi Rabbunim how did Rav Unterman end up being the Belzer's Mesader Kedushin in Tel Aviv?
Why did the Belzer refuse the Edah Hacharedis Shochet that was sent to him while he stayed in Haifa and preffered the local Rabanut shochet?
The list is so long.
הנ"ל
As for the Chazon Ish and Bechiros
There is no controversy, look in Pe'er Hador and you will see him sitting with Chaverei Hakeneset.
I have a personal story attesting to to the Chazon Ish's view.
The famous Reb Dovid Leib Schwaartz known as the 'feter' [of almonos and yesomim] who was also a well known viznitzer chosid.
Told me, yes to me!
That when the first bechiros came around he was at the time learning in the Valozhin Kollel in Benei Brak and the kollel yungeliet had an ongoing hot debate if they should participate.
"איך האב מיך אויף געהויבען און אריבער געגאנגען צום חזון איש און איך האב אים פארציילט וואס עס גייט פאר אין דעם כולל וואלאזשין אין א מחלוקת וכו' צו מ'זאל גיין צו בחירות צו נישט האט ער געגעבען א קוק אויף מיר, אין געזהייסן
"איר זאלט גייען קלייבען!" זי"ע והרוצה לשקר ירחיק עדותו
Yosef 718
The argument about the Belzer Rebbe, that since his father was so opposed to Zionism and since he was so mekusher to his father ...blah blah... is so crazy.
If Reb Sucher Ber was so opposed even to Mizrachi Rabbunim how did Rav Unterman end up being the Belzer's Mesader Kedushin in Tel Aviv?
Why did the Belzer refuse the Edah Hacharedis Shochet that was sent to him while he stayed in Haifa and preffered the local Rabanut shochet?
The list is so long.
הנ"ל
this article in the yid has nothing to do with belz,the zaloinim are pushing ahron to the left ,as der yid knows the blatt is trying to be this multi ethnic paper for all ,thats why the blatt covers chabad ,belz , without any hint that those camps are beniggud to their shitah ,the yid portends itself as the emmesdiga kannuim which in reality they are not ,because they want
to include the bnei yoel in their camp ,so the zaloinim get two birds with one stone intimidate belz be the big kannui and aaron is a linker iz er nisht memale mukem dem rebben z.y.u
Besides the Eda rabbonim who had negios , no serious world class gadol opposed the bechiros. Certainly all chassiidc rebebs were not in agreement with the Sakamarer rebbe.The Gerer, belzer, Vishnitzer, Kluizenberger, Tchebiner rav kapishnitzer, Novominsker, Sadigerer, Lubavitcher, Bhusher, Boyaner, Bluzhover, all supported voting (some even for a line other than Gimmel). I will ad dperhaps Rav Velvele was not for bechiors I do not know but all the roshe yeshivas (Mir, R, Isser zalman, Chevron Roshim, Rav Shach, and the other ramim in Ponoviesz, and Rav Frank supported the bechiros. The Satmarer rebbe was a daas yachid. As he himslef said Yachid verabbim halacha kerabbim if the Yachid (Hashem is with them the rabbim then the rabbim are correct ) otherwise its with the yachid meaning the rebbe who had Hashem's support. in this case I think we can agre that the gedolim had the Yachid with them.
Anony.12:14 You're probably right as to the internal politics surrounding the Belz article. Nevertheless there are plenty of naive naronim in the Satmer camp and outside who will take this at face value and as the party line. My big worry is that there are plenty of narishe yeshive guys in Lakewood and elsewhere who will buy into this propaganda. Don't underestimate the power of Satmer. They sent hundreds of their people to Washington over their kevorim issue and what does a goy know about how crazy satmer is? The goy sees an authentic looking Jew. At the least they plant confusion among goyishe politicians whether or not Orthodox Jews care about the security of Israel.Satmer makes no bones about their position : Israel has to disappear C"V. The nice Satmers say it will happen peacefully-the radicals say the Zionists will "be taught a lesson".As they grow stronger in numbers and boldness, they will have to be dealt with in a meaningful way especially in the field of kashruth.So far the haredi world is loathe to give up those delicious CRC kokush goodies.
Antitzemach, what's you opnion regarding this debate?
http://finkorswim.com/2011/02/23/glenn-beck-radicalized-islam-and-reform-rabbis/
Dunno about the other Eida Rabbonim. But Rav Bengis ztl was a Gaon Adir, and he was anti the elctions. He was the last person who could be told what to say and write.
the people of the small three street derfil (village) of belz were very primitive.
these "klein shtetl" back dated group of undocumented citizens of poland had nothing except a shul.
the shul had doors inside and ouside.
yet satmer was a big city.
belz of today wnat to change it.
You can all bash Satmar as you wish. But if you are in a time of need you dont go to Ger,Belz or Klauznbug. For Chesed you will all go to Satmar. Thats all part of the doctrine of the the old Rebbe ztl. Yes even Slonim, which are considerd a bit "tziyonish", a cuple of months ago they needed money to bail them out,they all came running to Satmar.
Bobov Chosid.
Pre war Belz was the most respected Chasidduth in Europe. Bobov I'm afraid, was the place for young teenagers looking for some cosy action (not that's wrong).
wondering 6:07
please email me and explain to me what you mean and what this birth of the Schneerson twins has to do with anything...
I didnt mean to compare RA to Sarkozy, Groucho or Casey Stengel C"V.
I just meant in terms of historical continuity and legitimacy, hayntige RYD has very little claim
Anonymous
For chesed you go to Sakmar.
For excellent inn service you go to Lubavitch and that's not chessed ? Who do the great knacker from sakmar go to in China, India, Thailand (what the hell are sakmarer doing there ?) and yes even washington DC when di beichele tut vay un men darf epes araynemen in moil ? I think it was your Rebbe Rabbi Joel who said that a traveller is like a chetzi anus.
Some one wrote a few months ago that one can be a baal chesed but have no middos the 2 issues are distinct. How true ! Just for the record Reb Ferenec I support the Satmar Bikkur Cholim with donations and their other relief eforts too. Can you say that about supporting non Satmar chessed programs ?
Except for a few Hungarian rabbonim no one supported his position on Israel. May I note that the Zaddik of Skver was just in israel and visited the Kossel (Kotel ?) The old Skverer was angry at Rabbi JT for saying that the Besht's derech was over. Did Rav Akiva Sofer support the Satmar position ?
Rav Bengis was an old man in 1948 and if he supported elections how could he remain the Rosh beth Din of the Eda its like saying that the halachic authority of the Ou also owned another kashruth agency.
You know what the second part of the bio of rav Dushinsky remains unwritten now for years. My good friend rav Offman of Melbourne is unsure how to treat Rav Dushinsky's own complex attitude towards the Aguda and the new Medianah.After all his grandson is now a rebbe and in full orbit about satmar and their check books.
Finally yes Satamr helps people with chessed, but just who rescued the rebbe himself , that was not chessed ? And stop with all your excuses obfuscations and bobba maases (kepeshuto with chalomos - fascinating your rebbe did not hold of such maases yet he and his cohort created a maase chalom to negate the zionist rescue of himself) If your activities are chessed then the Zionists saving Rabi JT and family is chessed shebechessed to paraphrase R. Hillel Particher.
Anon 5.07
The Skevere Rebbe Ztl and the Satmar Rebbe Ztl had a bit of a character clash. The Skevere had issues with learning Ketos or Bieur Hgra and last but not least learning Breslov. The Satmar Reebe, contrary to public belief was an extremely open minded person he could not bear shallowness.
Even when it came to his Shita about the state of Israel, in the public he was screaming against Chiunch Atzmoai and the same afternoon he would privately donate money to them.
In Hungary in Satmar he would give his Shabbos Hagdol Dreasha in his own shul and would express his dismay at people wearing Shaitles, and in the afternoon when speaking in the Shtatishe Shul he would beg the women to wear them. That is genuine Gadluus. According to him, voting in Israel was an Isuur Gamur, however that did not stop him from saying on Reb Ahron Kotler Ztl who was the biggest advocate for the elections, "Shlo Shina". I would of course add that to the average Hungarian Kop this was all a bit confusing.
Anon 5:53,
You are indeed correct. The Satmar Rov's public rhetoric regarding shittos were different than his interpersonal reactions. That is because, pursuant to true gadlos, he opposed views and ideologies, not people. Hence, he was on very warm on cordial terms with many of the lomdim, even the Ponevizher Rov (who Tzig likes - for some inexplicable reason). He also had a warm relationship of mutual respect with Reb Reuven Grozozsky, Reb Ahron Kotler, Reb Yitzchok Hutner (who Tzig doesn't like), Reb Leib Malin, Reb Shmuel Charkover, etc. Also, he met the Chazon Ish (a rather famous conversation ensued) and he met the Brisker Rov in Shveitz in the home of Ehrelengers in which Reb Velvel said that he sees eye to eye with him on 97%.
Obviously, his interaction with the 'lomdim' was different than other Hasidic leaders, - wink, wink - because there was mutual respect and tolerance.
attn bobov chusid .... looks like you want some belz - bobov action on lubavitcher territory . if you would be a real bobover you would honor the previous bobover z.t.l you would'nt be a mecharchir riv ,obviously you must be from ungers faction who dont care about the previous bobover ,if so ,why pick on belz ,take on you're old enemy lubavitch who you fought in the 70's
This is Satmar style chesed
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/12/10/20081210mr-angels1210.html
150 Hells Angels bikes deliver toys to needy kids
Nathan Gonzalez - Dec. 10, 2008 10:26 AM
The Arizona Republic
The sound of a couple of roaring motorcycles through the lobby of Mesa's Family Resource Center brought a smile to Pamela Godfrey and other staff members eagerly awaiting a Christmas donation from the notorious biker gang Hells Angels.
"They're here," said Godfrey, community relations manager for the Child Crisis Center, which oversees the resource center. Waiting outside were Chuck "Taz" Morgan and two other members of the Hells Angels hoping to brighten the holiday for the city's less fortunate children.
During its 11th annual one-day toy run Sunday, the Hells Angels Mesa Charter collected 512 toys and $800 for the center. The run began at Tempe's Tri-City Eagles and ended at Arizona Joe's in
Apache Junction.
Another example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
Hamas is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare wing providing social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospital construction. Hamas devotes up to 90% of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network, running many relief and education programs, and funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. Such services aren't generally provided by the Palestinian government.[49]
In particular, Hamas funded health services where people could receive free or inexpensive medical treatment. Hamas greatly contributed to the health sector, and facilitated hospital and physician services in the Palestinian territory. On the other hand, Hamas’s use of hospitals is sometimes criticised as purportedly serving the promotion of violence against Israel.[50] The party is also known to support families of those who have been killed (including suicide bombers), wounded or imprisoned by Israel, including providing a monthly allowance of $100. Families of militants not affiliated with Hamas receive slightly less.[51]
Did someone seriously suggest that the old Skvere was of a caliber to agree or disagree with the Satmarer Rov?
Please tell me I read it wrong.
Of course, the Satmar Rov was a daas yochid and I found a letter somewhere on the internet from R' Binyomin Mendelssohn zt"l explaining why the Hungarian shita of hisbadlus would suggest that one should go to bechiros. However, most of the names mentioned were not his beney plugta. I would suggest that ony the Belzer Rov, R' Moshe Feinstein, the Chazon Ish and R' Aaron Kotler were of any caliber that their opinions should be taken into account on the same level. If the Gerrer Rebbes, Tchebiner Rov, Rav Shach, R' Yaakov Kamenetzky etc. say differently to him we would listen to what they have to say and judge accordingly, but that would not carry the same weight.
Real Bobov...
I just love how you talk about not having machloikes...then one line later you show true 48 colors.
48 is just scared about how badly they will do and that they will have to sell a few buildings to pay out the real Bobov......or just give us back the Beis Medresh....all your tefilles there were geneiva
The Aybishter should have rachmunes on all you beheimos....and hope Beigel and Leizer don't get upset with R' Benzion and arrange for the female shevartze police to kick him out too....with help from police liason Dembitzer...
Who is 'Mecharchev Riv' ?
You Ferd !!!
Real Bobov
I agree with the above....
Without taynes of 'that is what his father wanted' for which not one kosher eid or written document has been provided, Ben Zion has used force and rich friends to steal and destroy Bobov forever...
So far Beis Din said that there is no basis for R' Ben Zion to be Rebbe. He was never appointed by his father in any capacity and in his lifetime was given no position or even official kavod other than that which he took for himself....
R' Naftuli left it to his sons in law.....
Whatever respect Bobov had in the chasidishe velt (o.k. not that much anyway) Benzion managed to destroy... He took shallow balabatishkeit in Bobov to a whole new level....
The only basis R Benzion has is that the other side left rather than stay and fight.
I would have proposed both Rebbes start their own beis medresh and after two years, whoever had more followers be given the keys to 48 street..
since this discussion morphed into a 48th vs. 45th, I'll throw in my outsider opinion. The bais din messed up big time. They should have locked the shul and said no one uses it until the din torah ends. both sides would have rushed to get it over with, instead we have a 7 yr din torah with no end in sight.
"My good friend rav Offman of Melbourne is unsure how to treat Rav Dushinsky's own complex attitude towards the Aguda and the new Medianah."
Raznozchick,
Funny that you are such "good friends" with Horav Shimon OPMAN from Melbourne yet you don't even know his correct name?? (yeah, you must've have read his name in lushen koidesh and thought it's pronounced "offman".)
Did I read right?The tchebiner rob and Garage Shach were not ballei plugta with the Satmer rebbe, what are you smoking? If anything the shailah is farkert? Is the Satmer rav a bar plugtah with them? Please explain neon what aspect was he bigger then them,in Torah definitely not! In followers not more then R Shach! As a manhig again not more then R Shach!Oh and btw in age he was younger then the tchebiner and the same age as R Shach so it's not age either!
Memo to anyone concerned with the future of millions of Jews in Israel:
Don't underestimate the danger of hizbollah,hamas, left wing academic intellectuals,mideast correspondents for the BBC and NPR,and hordes of satmer hassidim coming to your congressman and senator with the news that orthodox Jews are unalterably opposed to the State of Israel and that "Zionist aggression" must be stopped.We ignore this at our own peril.
Here I am B'GiLifin that the Bechiros of the early '50s are alive and well (there is not another place in the Lower Realm where this issue is going strong) , when my eyes and intelligence were assaulted by Bobov 45-48 Narishkeiten.
Don't sully your blog with such ......
Yankel: Wrong-get your P.I. license recertified.
Yankel: Wrong-get your P.I. license recertified.
The following I write on the assumption that Satmer Rav was indeed that Godel that certain people on this site deem him to be. His Vayol Moshe is a laughable tract, simply feverish Hungarian zealotry, woven together by a melange of weak sources and an extremely convoluted and twisted way of reasoning, I don't know how many of you went through that polemical tome, but almost every sentence is refutable and very questionable being on the verge of sophistry, with sloppy shoddy reasoning (If even you can call the whole meandering hermeneutics in there, reason by any logical standard).
Satmar lives by the unshakable faith that no one ever refuted the SEFER,claiming its a masterpiece. the truth is that it was totally beneath the real giants as R" Moshe or Chebiner Rav etc Even Haozol, . to write a refutation against it; a few words as ein mashvin al hadrush, can blow away the whole elaborate edifice constructed out of cards and on quicksand. They didn't even deem the whole tract as a Sefer but rather a polemical pamphlet with hard cover as the Sefer from his ancestors, Michtov Golui - Milchems Mitzva about the infighting of Siget Viznitz.
Usually books of this genre are such that after one read they sent to the gniza heap,and are only found afterward in obscure libraries and specialty collectors treasures; that this became one of the supposedly masterworks of our times, is itself one of the seven wonders of our era. The Sefer remains respectable only by the dint of terror and force (However, it seems to me that Arons faction wants indeed to move away ever so subtle and indirect from the centrality of Vayol Moshe and therefore subtly started calling him the Bal Divrei Yoel instead of the ball Vayol Moshe, but the Zalman faction steadfastly clings to the VM as his name).
And I won't talk about where a was while Europe was burning, and the Manhig Hador was awol (I am already talking post war in the DP camps when a was hiding in Switzerland hours drive of those camps). etc.
But the most disturbing thing here is that someone can write here a sentence that the Tchebiner Rav is not on the caliber of the Satmerr! Techiboner Rav! (his name calls out awe) who the Great Chazon Ish was in complete awe of him, the holy Steipler writes to him with such reverence as calling him Sar Hatorah etc. And even the discerning Brisker Rav was intimidated by him (and, no. not because he had terror brigades). Even the Satmerer admitted such when he was by the Belzer, he said their are 2 Gedolim the Techbiner and the Brisker. Its akin someone saying that the Rogotchover wasn't on the caliber of R" Chono Kolishitzer! don't get me wrong, R' Chono was a great man..but the tsushtel is not even a joke.
Truth is, that it's even strange that someone has to attest that the sun is indeed bright and hot.Its only possible with a night owl who never saw the sun and thinks that that's the brightest body in the sky is the moon. The guy who claims the Chebiner is not in the same caliber, is begeder lo roh oros meyomov
these responses are too hot for me i think these kids should go back to hyde park ,
Anony. 11:43 Congratulations for setting the record straight. As you correctly stated the entire edifice of Satmer is based on terror and intimidation.I'd just like to know what Rabbi Kotler was doing with the puppet leader of Satmer R.Z.L. Teitelbaum this week in Lakewood.It's OK to sit next to a person who espouses the "disappearance" of the Jewish State?Then why not invite Nasrallah to Lakewood? Er geit eich mit a bord un zhupitze un iz shtark endlech af der zeide Yishmoel.
kudos anonymous. 11:43 one of the great comments ever
Anon
"Did someone seriously suggest that the old Skvere was of a caliber to agree or disagree with the Satmarer Rov?"
how exactly do you judge these things, how would like to have your Measuring tape.
Is it torah? Kedusha? Chochma?
Anon
"If the Gerrer Rebbes, Tchebiner Rov, Rav Shach, R' Yaakov Kamenetzky etc. say differently to him we would listen to what they have to say and judge accordingly, but that would not carry the same weight.'
do you know bichlal who Chebiner Ruv was? the Chazon Ish and the Stiepler looked upon him as the Godal,The Stiepler calls him Rabieni, and so did the Brisker Ruv, He once said on a chidush of Brisker Ruv , it is a Rashi in Eirechi, for a week he was in Hispalus and couldnt learn.How fartamt can a person be and still write.
Did you ever see 1 teshuva of him, the Sakmer Ruv is against him the Udvurar Ruv.
Anon
"They didn't even deem the whole tract as a Sefer but rather a polemical pamphlet with hard cover as the Sefer from his ancestors, Michtov Golui - Milchems Mitzva about the infighting of Siget Viznitz."
The list of this Sigeter/Satmar manuverings torah/ politics books is long. Just look at the seforim that was printed at the Satmar Rabunas machloke and the spinker Krulla Machloka.Nobody in klal yisroel was ever as good as these kind of People. All the above wars had no reltionship to Zionisim Aguda etc... they were just busy fighting turf wars on a daily basis.After he arrived to the USA he started building his empire, I would not say yiddishkiet, since the Tzelemer Ruv had alraedy established by then a real Kosher Ungarisher style network as Cholev Yisroel, Mikva, Shechita, Yiddish speaking cheder (the Peyoth of the kids were not as long as today, not every boy looked like, he his Rebbe reb Mielechs einikel as the kids today) So he started bickering on the Zionisim, that every Ruv his a hidden zionist(Mcarthy style) and putting on palm socks.
This style of war has to be tought in universities.
Hirshel
since we are at this subject, I think you should start putting on Hirtz Frankels Satmar pieces in AMI, he tries to give him a facelift, it is 50% lies.
Cecil'
That is because, pursuant to true gadlos, he opposed views and ideologies, not people."
wait and see till the wikileaks will hit satmar, we will hear how ugly he talks on "People"
it is on tapes already, it just has to be typed up
it is a well known fact that the Chazon Ish's rebetzin went to all the bechiros,and of course we know that the Steipler z'l who was his brother in law,and who did not make a move without asking the Chazon Ish,he signed on the KOL KOREH'S that it is a CHOV KODOSH to go to vote
chaim
and the Stiepler wrote against the Satmar Ruvs stand on that subject. It is printed in his Kriena Deigrese
its all marketing satmar understood their business and as expert salespeople,, let everyone know if you're not with my shita you are keklipas hashim ,and they convinced the world . the main reason they pushed it through was as follows most immigrants who arrived after the war were so devastated they just wanted to live in peace " you don't bother me and i don't bother you" the one rebbe who who had the courage as if there was no war was the satmar rebbe .it really is irrelevant if the the veyoel moshe is aggada ,drish , or hallacha , its the man behind it ,"ein meshivin es ari le'acher ptirusoi "
their is no question that Belzer Rav changed his views after the war, eventough he was the great ohev Yisroel since he was born, but in Eretz yisroel. he started looking beyond labels, I guess the Liech Kenois es kol Hayehudim from hitler, that every jew no matter from the Holy to the Mishlingen, was a horoah min hashomaim, that it is time to change course. on his run from the Bochnie Ghetto he stoppen in Romania by his cousin,the old Faltichaner Rebbe, The belzer Ruv made a tish and Reb Meshulem Roth (a Mizrachi member) came to the tish. The Belzer ruv only wanted that Reb Meshulem should leave, with embarrasement, he was adamant about it.But the Faltichaner had great respect for the Sar Hatorah that he was.He did not embarrass him and did not send him away and even gave him benching. This is not a Menashe Fulop story, alot of people heard this story from the old Faltichaner Rebbe. But when he arrived to Eretz Hakodesh, he looked upon the Rabbinate as the offical rabonim,
He befriended Rav Herzog, took Rav Unterman for Mesader Kidushin. The question is, what changed, unless he saw some sin on Reb Meshulems Roth's face
Yankel,
Did the Sakmarer rav know how to tranliterate his name from Hebrew to latin osiyos?
For your information, I have met rabbi Offman several times, I have purchased rare seforim from him. I have been in the home of his children in Williamsburg and exchanged correspondence and spoken to him on the phone from Australia on more than a few occasions. Are you happy now ?
But pray tell me why the second part of rav Yosef Zvi Dushinsky's biography can not be written , then I will be happy too.
Unbelievable. Is this heimeshe yidden writing or is this some reform Jews mocking the Rabbis. For a moment it seems that we are debating Obama versus Sarah Pailin, for Gods sake we are speaking of the Satmar Rebbe Ztl. Someone who from the very young age was held in the greatest aura by Giants such as Reb Y D of Belz and Reb Shaul Brach. Does anyone honestly doubt that he meant it leshm shamyim? No he was not the Gaon like The Techbiner Ruv and The Belzer Ruv was clearly regarded as the Tzadik hador. However The Satmar Ruv was a Gaon in his own right, showed rays of brilliance in leadership, a massive Baal Chesed for the prince of pauper, an extremely witty mind with a healthy sense of humour, had mega Charisma, and last but not least was an extremely holy individual. Basically he was the complete package.
I personally heared from an Einkel of The Shotzer Rov after the 1955-meeting-with-the belzer ruv- fiasco and the Shotzer ruv being a fiery chosid of the Belzer Ruv was naturally extremely upset over the incident, and the Shotzer told him; what shall I tell you "ahr is fort a moierdege Shomer Habris", and the Shotzer was famos for being an Ish Emes and saying such a description on the Satmar Ruv should give us some insight. He had people like The Falticaner Zl which was semi adopted by Ryd of Belz and Reb Itzkel of Persvosk which was still a chosid of the Shinve Ruv, Bekitzur people who have seen the Giants of pre war Europe, and they all were fanatic chasidim of him. And to have here people which still enjoy a slice of Pizza and a shot of Scotch and come here and try to portray the SR as if he was a Qaddafi style leader sending out his henchmen to intimidate the masses is mind boggling.
anon.3:41Where do you get the chutzpah to imply that no one in the world compared to the SR in kedushas habris? How do you know? Because other gedolim didn't talk about it at Kol Nidrei means they were less nizher in this? Since practically no one outside his orbit agreed with him you've got to create the new argument about kedushah and tziyonus.By the way all the Rabbonim who wanted to take extreme action against him were from the alter dor. Apparently they found his shite and demonstrations extremely displeasing despite his personal piety.
Poster
"Did the Sakmarer rav know how to tranliterate his name from Hebrew to latin osiyos?"
the Sakmer Ruv spoke Hungarian language, but not a perfect one, There are 2 interviews that he gave for Hungarian newspapers.
Reb Aron Tietelbaum claims that the Aitzei Chaim took a private tutor to lean his kids the "Shprach"
The Sakmar Ruv claims that he only has a problem with Hebrew but not with Hungarian
Anon
"Someone who from the very young age was held in the greatest aura by Giants such as Reb Y D of Belz and Reb Shaul Brach"
how do you know all this "Aura" business? from Maisos, the Sakmar Ruv taught that it is not to be trusted.Unless you have letters etc...
Anon
"an extremely witty mind with a healthy sense of humour, had mega Charisma'
what does that have to do with being a Manhig Yisroel?
did Reb Chaim Oizer, chofetz chaim, Gerer Rebbe etc.. have 1 of these qualities?
Anon
"The Falticaner Zl which was semi adopted by Ryd of Belz"
the Faltichaner Rebbe was no Sakmarer chosid, let the Stien family say different till the next Shemita, he was no sakmarer chosid
Anon
"Reb Itzkel of Persvosk which was still a chosid of the Shinve Ruv,"
Reb Itzikel and Reb Yankele were all Belzer and Skverer and Satmarer too. and he was very mad when Satmar pulled him to sign against Belzer Ruv, as he wrote in his letter.
Klainer
this was always the Satmar Mantra, that Ein Oid Milvadoi.
Was the Bies Yisroel and Reb Chaim Meiere'l not the same kedoshim?
Some proposed topics for BelzerFinAMool, focused on everythig Belz, except Belz of today
1. as much biographical material as possible about each and every descendant of the Sar Shulem, including women,sons and daughters in law.
2. Raiberie/Friction with:
a. RYD
b. R Aharon - Eidah, Satmar
c. Munkatch
d. Sanzer kinder
e. local Galatzianer
3.Pictures, as Tzig has shown, these are Moishech LeVuvos
4. Vertlach
5. Aileh Masei - WWI, WWII years
6. TA years, Achad Ha'Am Gass
7. Andere Rebbes and Chasidim vus hoben ya Ge'Halten (opposite of Raberie)
8. Nid'chef B'Shtei Yodayim (those Eigener who Belz threw out)
9. Personalities, differences between Sar Shulem, R' Shi'ele, RYD, and RAR
10. Minhuggim Shoinos
11. Yoshvim, did they have individuality, any stories about yechidim?
One of my main considerations is "SHe'Loi Tish'ta'Kach"
any other suggested topics? Please note that any submission less than PHD thesis length will not be considered. Just kidding
Whenver I hear about "Acht Doires Shoimer HaBris", I always think about the poor guy who was Nine Doires Tzi'Rik, what are they trying to say about him?
if we are on this subject already, I have heard from a very trustworthy source that R Chaim Kaneivski told him that he once asked Harav Shach why he was not into accepting sandekaus something his father the Steipler was very into being that it's a big segulah for Hirhurim.And R Shach answered him what can I tell you I never had the problem!!
Poster, 2:50pm,
No I"m not happy at all.As I've told you his name is R'Shimon OPman, not OFFMAN(a mistake you made because you read his name in lushen koidesh ,but never met him).He is not your good friend if you don't even know his name
Yankel In my OFFINION you need to "take it easy."
To the Chasedei 45 why do you have to curse saying this saying that on 48 and their rebbe
why are you people not happy you have a rebbe a big talmid chocom even the litvisher velt know he is a true talmid chcom
be positive what do you care if 48 have the shul and the buildings you have a rebbe a big talmid chchom
"I personally heared from an Einkel of The Shotzer Rov after the 1955-meeting-with-the belzer ruv- fiasco and the Shotzer ruv being a fiery chosid of the Belzer Ruv was naturally extremely upset over the incident, and the Shotzer told him; what shall I tell you "ahr is fort a moierdege Shomer Habris","
der poipst is oich a shoimer habris.
This is a sick story.
How does anyone know that someone is a shoimer habris because he talks about it? is the shotzer implying that he wasn't?
Just replace gandhi with SR and change non-violence to violence.
"Gandhi was a great political figure of the twentieth century. With his fasts and scripture reading, his dedication to non-violence, simplicity and celibacy, he captured the imagination of millions in India. Myths began to develop during his life time and when he died a martyrs' death there were those who compared him to Christ. His human weaknesses have been obscured by mythologizers fearful of debasing and sensationalizing their martyred hero."
All great men have weaknesses. Gandhi[SR] had his. He was no doubt a Mahatma[Rabbi] whose greatness must not be minimized. He created a political[religious] awakening among the masses of India[Hungarian refugees] and led them through the doors of freedom[Toirah]. He became one with the poor by living a simple and austere life. He practiced what he preached. He sacrificed the career of his children[chasidim] to his concept of moral education by denying them an academic[secular] education, which in his view 'perpetuated slavery[apikorsus/zionism]
Albert Einstein[groise rabbunim of the CRC] once said of him, 'Generations to come, it may be, will scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth.'
Yankel,
Shall I forward to you copies of my Long Distance phone bill ? How about e mails ? How about receipts for purchases of books and their titles from the rabbi ? Shall I add a list of friends, good friends, acquaintances, customers, in general etc etc. Shall I tell you exactly which day wnd where I met rabbi O ?Perhaps you ought to serve me with legal papers demanding that I testify to "friendship" under oath. What Jew (or person for that matter) is this who doesn't believe another of a matter of ma becach. I can see you getting all upset over money , but this give me a break.
I don't get it are you upset that I know the rabbi ? Why ? This is a new high of hisbadlus and Austritt, people of he Adas in Melbourne should have nothing to do with anyone but gor shtark frume(of course in business altz iz kosher) ... I guess I do not rate .
My point is not the rabbi , but why part 2 of Chief rabbi (of the Eda )Duschinsky's(oy vey did I spell his name correctly in Engelis is there an s there or not, I'll ask his grandson the admor if he knows his grandfather he would know how to spell the name in English, No ?)) biography was never published. can you help me there ?
Zayt gezunt !
declaration of war?
This is a secret code that is difficult to decipher
http://twitter.com/SatmarPress
NY: Askonim w/ Vad Chinuch Htuhor EY Planning a compine against Belz if they wil't stop LIBA Limidm. will send Kinteras Hasbura on mail.
anon 3.41 you are 100% right , you don't need proof for the gadlus of the satmar rov the way he set up yiddishkeit chasidishe yeshivos,tzedukeh organizations , lvish yehudy,simcha shel mitzvah,is practiced till today,belz with all the complaints from satmar are much closer to the satmar shita than satmar itself for according to the bnei yoel the village of kj and the school district is just like tziyoines , nu belz has no school district
The action is on twitter
Fall out from TolnaLeaks
http://www.kikarhashabat.co.il/%D7%94%D7%90%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%9E%D7%98%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%90.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://twitter.com/BelzNies
האדמו"ר מטאלנא מכחיש: הפרסומים -
שקרים וכזבים
כ"ק האדמו"ר מטאלנא מצטרף למחאתם של בני בעל "הפני מנחם" זצ"ל, ומכחיש את הנכתב ביומן שנושא את שמו. "לא היה ולא נברא", הוא כותב במכתב שפרסם ● הסערה החלה בעקבות יומן שפורסם בשמו, ובו ציטוטים המיוחסים לאדמו"ר ה"פני מנחם" התוקפים, כביכול, את גדולי ישראל (חסידים)
Sorry to veer off the exciting topics for a minute,
but whoever can be moisif to the demand of letters needed of Rayatz [5690-5710], and of the Rebbe ZYA [5685-5735], of which sifrei miluim to their respective Igros Kodesh are going to print in the very near future.
In the link below (and the email and PDF link therein) - they're asking for teshuros which aren't on their consistently updated list. But K'MUVAN, it can ALSO be haatakos and other variants of letters/maynos which the oilam may have on their person, or seen in various publications which would probably not be seen by the compilers vechulu (it can also be kit'ei igros which those parts aren't included in previous volumes etc).
If you, or others you know of, can contribute towards this quite worthy endeavor, tavoi aleichem brocha, as to make the much-deserved seforim as mushlam as they can possibly be! Adei nizkeh l'Geula krova, when we'll hear from the great kedoshei elyon themselves, asher m'pihem anu chayim --
http://shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=48459
Can you please put out abisele frishe milch? After ninety hits the old milch iz a bisel zoier gevorn...Tzaar Baalei Chayim...
The Tchbiner Rov was undoubtedly the greatest Gaon in the post war era. Just a look at one teshuva and your mind gets dizzy. Rav Gustman zl said that the only one who reminds him of Reb Chaim Ozer Ztl is the Tcebiner rov. He belonged to the exclusive Ivy League club of the Marsham and the Avnei Nezer. However having said that, one just cant wipe of ths Sefer Vyoel Moshe just like that. I agree that the majority of the sefer is based on Dreush, however there are some points which are raised which deserve to be addressed. Issues such as going in to a Beis Minus which is a Halcha or the oath which the MK need to swear to be loyal to the state and its laws. These issues have got serious halchaic repercussions and are legitimate concerns. Political sharks such as Arye Deri have also long argued that having own parties in the Knesset brings more damage than good and it would have been much more beneficial to have the secular parties chasing after the charedi vote.
It is also worth noting that according to N ortner's book Peer Moshe, the son of R Moshe Ortner who was the De facto chief of staff in the Belzer Rov's household (beside being the in house accountant) the Satmar Rebbzin was extremely upset about the 1955 rift and asked Moshe Feldman FIL of Paul Reichman from Toronto to intervene to try to sort out something and the Belzer Rov wrote a greetings card to the Satmar Rov and titled him "hamforsam begdushso".
Poster,
Why can't you just admit that you in fact do not know R'Shimon OPman very well?
I"m bothered by your attempt to make yourself a big buddy of his when you don't even know his name.
Just own up already
the difference between satmar and belz is as follow's in satmar hot der rebbe gefiyert dus gesheft, and in belz the ga'bu'im called the shots
שעשפעלע טייערער
ס'קומט באלד פרישע מילך
Hirshele-Di Ketzelech danken dir.Efsher kenste onvaremmen di milch-in droisen iz gut kalt.
Anon
"Political sharks such as Arye Deri have also long argued that having own parties in the Knesset brings more damage than good and it would have been much more beneficial to have the secular parties chasing after the charedi vote."
when did he say it, when he was the chairman of the party? or on his way to his cell?
Anon
"issues such as going in to a Beis Minus which is a Halcha or the oath which the MK"
They are using the same heter, as reb Shimon Sofer used when he served as a senator in the polish Siem,
He had to swear, he was part of all the legislating laws, there were gentiles and maskilim representation there. If it was a Christian country then he had a problem to swear to uphold their laws that are based on Avoda Zora. According to the Shulchan Orech OC 156, it is only permitted for a gentile that Avoda Zora Beshitef is permited for him. But if it was liberal government, then he was sitting sitting with all kind of apikorsim.I did not see in his teshuva sefer Michtav Sofer a teshuva regarding that issue. Obviously the son of the Heiliger Chasm Sofer and the Shalich of the Kanoi Reb Yehushoa of Belz(the father of the Satnar certified Kanoi RYD)did not see it even as a problem as the great "Goan" Rebinie Hakodesh of KJ.Unless the Gaboim did it as in later years Belz
Anon
"and in belz the ga'bu'im called the shots"
for argumens sake, did you have first hand knowledge,of Reb Shulem Fogel? you think he was farchapt in Zionisim, he was influenced from Herzel, reb Shmuel Mohiliver, Rav Kook,
this whole satmar talk is ludicrous as the whole shita.
Only declaration of faithfulness in knesset.No halahic problem. Zionist Rabbis very careful in matter.Most big Rabbis say no minim and apikorsim bizman hazeh,therefore no beis minim possible.sorry to disappoint big kanoim. Long live di Tzionistishe Medineh...!
Urgent
".Most big Rabbis"
who else besides the Chazon Ish?
Anonymous4:09pm
"According to the Shulchan Orech OC 156, it is only permitted for a gentile that Avoda Zora Beshitef is permited for him."
Can you look up the shittos before you "pasken" what "avodeh zuro beshitef" means?
There are different shitos in the Rishoinim and a famous Sha"ch on this
Yom Tov...
I don"t pasken I just spoke about the halasha,
for lomdus we will meet at a corner and discuss.
It seems to me after '50' years v'yoel m'moshe that the topic is hot and relevant as the day it was printed, amazing ! if u ever read that sefer you will see he recognizes the super grip tziyones has on mankind yiden and goyim which cant be destroyed until moshiach comes, all he wants to accomplish (he writes so) that people should know that there is another way the true daas torah way! Even for what any reason you don’t agree with but at least know it!.. From all the comments verbally and written on him in 50 years! I would say MISSION ACCOPLISHED!
I would say it was mission accomplished when the Skverer Rebbe two weeks ago went to the Kosel and Hevron in direct violation of the SR's rulings.Mission Accomplished!
There was rumors in 1967 at the end of the six day war when they captured the kosel that the skeverer rebbe said 'the shcina was liberated’ the skverer z"l send a personal message to SR z"l that 'he never said it' so the logical conclusion is that 'it was not liberated' Indeed it is news that the current rebbe went there sightseeing just like when he went to visit Hillary.. in the whitehouse! I’m sure his father is proud of him in gan eden.
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