Not that it was ever necessary - to apologize, that is. There was nothing wrong done there. Lubavitch does it too. Lubavitch has been delegitimatized. The Satmar Rov. zt"l, allowed leitzonus at the tish on Purim-Shushan Purim. It was the Zalis, not us. Get over it. You guys are waaaay too sensitive. You took the books out of Warsaw. You go to China just like Burger King does. The Holy Skverrer said Lubavitch was treyf. And the list goes on, and on, and on. But despite all that we never allowed it. It happened in our shul, with our leader giggling the whole time at the play, but we never allowed it. But we should've, cuz you guys are not legitimate anyway. But we didn't.
On with life. Pesach's almost here.
54 comments:
Hirshel, finally you are getting it, summed it up right
Hirshel
I think you don't chap,
what they are saying is that our kids (that are on a hate brainwash marathon) will start thinking that Lubavicher are not Zionists at all, since they believe fanatically in Moshiach,
is that not the sin of the Zionists?
thats why it is Ein Ruach Chachomim Noicha.
This letter does not qualify as an apology. This is lemafreiya distancing from the maaseh that happened with their implicit haskamah. Basically it says "We're sorry we got caught."
Hilarious! First of all, I never borrowed any money from you. Second of all, it wasn't $100, it was $50. Third of all, I already paid you back three weeks ago. Besides, if I remember correctly, you borrowed from me $100!
This stupidy was already discussed in:ס'נאך נישט "משיח'ס צייטן
with over a 100+ comments why bring it up again ?
just to show that they apologized. I can't just be one-sided, can I?
Chaveirim Kol Yisroel Venomar Omein!
The last time lubavitch got mad on satmar a boycut was declared.. on 'satamar' meats and Rubashkin meats was created by CH newly created vaad hakashrus oy vey enough!..
well the refuah (apology) is worst than the maka! (which was only satire!)
Keep it up tzig. Your fighting for the legitimacy of chassidus
Just for the record the satmer rebbe wrote "that the DERECH HaBal Shem Is Forgotten" (see VaYoel Moshe ) Meaning to say that anyone who is claiming today that he is walking the path of the Baal Shem Tov Z"YO is lying or dreaming and for proof he used the existing TORAHS HaBal Shem Tov
The Lubavitchr rebbe was the One who falsified the satmere rebbes written Quote saying Million times that HE said that Torahs habsht is forgotten to make his attack easier,
This is an aside MY claim that lubavither rebebe was also A MASHKEEACH Torahs HaBaShT
It Happened Again, last night by the weekly malva malke where hundreds gather to here the stories that r yosef hersh weinstock tells about the tzadikim that theit yoortzeit fals out in the upcominf week he tild storeies about the reshab that led to talking about the rebbe and the whole crowd was laughing
iam trying to get the tape but he quoted what he witnessed the previous squerer rebbe speaking derogatorily about the rebbe to the satmerer, he also quoted what reb avrohom mayor drizin told some thing derogatorily about the rebbe that had everyone laughing i heard they are selling his tapes i will try to get one before they censor it
"existing TORAHS HaBal Shem Tov"
there was no toras habsh't he never wrote anything therefore it couldn’t be falsified
only the ‘derech’ which was always given to interpretations even in the time of the ‘tanya’ there was arguments by many of his contemporaries and talmedi hamgagid what constitutes the ‘derech’ habalsh’t this is well documented, and latter even some lubavitcher disciples like the ‘kapuster’ writes that the ‘derech’ habsh't is already forgotten!
Typical Satmar! They act like people completely undeserving of the titles "Rebbe" or "Chassid" so therefore derech HaBesht has been forgotten. No wonder ZLT allows his people to act like this since truly it isnt the way of the Baal Shem Tov to make fun of other Jews, let alone Talmidei Chachomim, b'rabim. Well done Satmar!
"existing TORAHS HaBal Shem Tov"
there was no toras habsh't he never wrote anything therefore it couldn’t be falsified
only the ‘derech’ which was always given to interpretations even in the time of the ‘tanya’ there was arguments by many of his contemporaries and talmedi hamgagid what constitutes the ‘derech’ habalsh’t this is well documented, and latter even some lubavitcher disciples like the ‘kapuster’ writes that the ‘derech’ habsh't is already forgotten!
"make fun of other Jews, let alone Talmidei Chachomim"
which ones like rav shach maybe ?
It Happened Again, last night by the weekly malva malke where hundreds gather to here the stories that r, yosef hersh weinstock tells about the tzadikim that their yoortzeit falls out in the upcoming, week he told stories about the Reshab that led to talking about the Rebbe and the whole crowd was laughing
i am trying to get the tape he quoted publicly what he witnessed the previous squarer rebbe speaking derogatorily about the rebbe to the satmerer, he also quoted what reb avrohom mayor drizin told him some thing derogatorily about the rebbe that had everyone laughing, I heard they are selling his tapes i will try to get one before they censor it
“It Happened Again, last night” what goes around comes around!
I have seen once (but I heard that happened on many occasions) a CD somewhere (maybe on this site) of a farbreng where the LR talks rather angrily more overtly than implicitly on the SR if I remember correctly on: why he (SR) screams (missurs) on yidden doesn’t he know that the nuve y’eshaye got punished when he talked on yidden !… well I was thinking than it wasn’t a correct analogy because the nuve said what he said to G-D (am tuma…) he should of find a zecus on them.. but not to the ‘yidden’ which was a mitzvah to missur as he did just like yermaya ha’nuve did … However it didn’t botter a bid any satmar cusid (if they even knew of it) why be so sensitive when a couple of jokers on purim do some satire (they didn’t talk on the rebbe at all!) Get over it!
Hirshel
something happened today in willi?
they all arrived at once.
I know Yossel Wienstock well,
In different discussions he was cursing me out the Alte Skverer for being against Breslov...
Please tell him to stop his lies.
I don"t know much about Reb Avrum Mayorer, but 1 think I know for sure , he was a kluger yid, and he knew exactly kelipas satmar , he would never talk to a satmarer boy, against Kaviyochel the Rebbe.
Anon
"However it didn’t botter a bid any satmar cusid (if they even knew of it"
please dont play that false game, of they didnt know, they didnt care,
they took out all their pitbulls, for weeks their hate machine was working on all gears,
Borech Yide Klien barked in Yiddish and ML Deutsch barked in Hebrew(Tzionishe Shprach)in the rag Der Yid.
Anon
" well I was thinking than it wasn’t a correct analogy because the nuve said what he said to G-D'
did you learn Nach? I tought that ungarishe chasidim dont learn Nach,
I am amazed in your confidence, that you understand Nach better then the Rebbe of Lubavich.
Plus writing in a sefer for people that were just back from the concentraion camps that all 6 million were killed for some Midrash ib shir Hashurim is reckless and ludicrous.It is much worse then what the prophet said.
"Alte Skverer for being against Breslov."
Skver was against breslov from the first skverer in the 1800s. nothing new. the tolner also. maybe it was a twersky thing, they were trying to take over Ukraine and here were these breslovers who not only wouldnt switch over to them, but they wouldnt switch over because of an already dead rebbe.
uman and tolna were very close to each other.
Assaf has a good article about the Twersky Breslov wars
David Asaf in his book Nacaz Basvach (a mastepeice,except the chapter on the Choize of Lublin, which is full of BS and was totally unnecessary) brings a fascinating letter which the Skvere Chasidim reply to the Gaon Reb S Kluger, as to why they persecute Breslov, they answer that the Breslover Chasidiem do not accept the authority of other Rebbe's. That's it. It was a purely power struggle and nothing else. And you cant really blame the Breslever, after all with a Rebbe like Reb Nachman, who needs something else. The Skevere Rebbe Ztl was a holy person, however he took this dispute at face value and innocently assumed that Breslov is part of the devil. (shame Assaf did not show him the letter) The Falticaner zl was also a Skvere Einekel, but was more open-minded and could not careless about some old village folk rumours against Breslov, and in fact was constantly learning Breslov, and when asked about the fact that his ancestor's were against them, he replied, I know one thing, when I look in Likutei Mhoran I get a hirhur teshuva.
This week Tolna is closing and Breslev is still going strong
Anon: Sunday, April 03, 2011 6:02:00 PM “he knew exactly kelipas satmar”
kelipas what? I learned tanya and tora ohr likita torah but havn't came across that kelipa, can you explain further ...
Anon
thanks for your info on the Faltichaner, its very interesting eventough he was more Belzer then Chernobil, he was a Talmid muvhak of his uncle Reb Yisocher Dov who loved him for his diligence. I think it is etched on his Maitzieva,
But Belz was also allergic to Breslov, maybe RYD introduced it to Belz from his years that he was in Chernobil by his wifes family. Other Galicianer rebbes had no agenda with Breslov.
BTW, where did you hear this Faltichaner respect for Breslov?
Gimel Kelipas Hatemaye
"Gimel Kelipas Hatemaye"
please write in complete sentences
My time is limited
There's a recent Breslov book, it's entitled "Shvicho shel Tzadik - Leket sichos", (available on recent versions of Otzar HaChochma), compiling from all across the spectrum of admorim and Gedolei Yisroel, who spoke about R"N and/or his seforim.
Maybe there's something there on RYD or Faltchiner?
Machnonke Rebbe ZAL who was a reak Skvere Kind, said that in comunist Russia all taines were taken off Breslov, BECAUSE OF THEIR MESIRUS NEFESH.
To all of the above:
Taines on Breslov mtsad Chernobiler Rebbes were because they said that his derech is tzi hoich. THATS ALL.Chasidim used this as an excuse for power struggle.However to Asaf that does not matter- he will mix any old time Rebbe with dirt any day.
Russian Chosid
I was on a tour bus in Ukraine/Poland. The bus stopped by Reb Nachmen in Uman. A few Rachmistrivker Chasidim did not go off the bus. When asked for the reason they answered sheepishly It is Avoda Zora Beshituf, Rachmona Litzlan. this Kids have no idea what it is all about, but really wired with that nonsense. I saw the Skverer saying that by Him (Breslov) the person was in question, not his ideas.
Anon
"Shvicho shel Tzadik - Leket sichos"
there are too many lies in there, they killed the honest stuff, for instance they create Sakmer ruv in to a full fledge Breslover,
He maybe glanced in to the sefer, but noting else
I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT I WILL SAY NOW, SO I RATHER WILL NOT SAY.:)
@#$&^&(*&^&*(K
Yous should of just ask them a pshat in Meor Einaim or Toldos. They know only how to put 3 shins in tfilin and go with shtibelakh (oifen kop oich)
I am sorry Russian Chosid
it is not their fault. this is what Russian Chassidus is all about,preached to them by the Russian Rebbes I am sorry but they are told to say Meor Einiem as tehilim shabos morning. with no understanding what so ever,.
I guess i am from a different Russia :)To my knowledge, Skvere Rebbe knew a difference between Ukrainisher Poiren and american yeshiva bucher. Who ever wanted to understand and work on chasidus-did.Whoever wanted to stay a poier-stayed.
One of the iker things that reb Nakhman wrote, was that you not suppose to have emine bli taam in a tsadik-so, i guess that's answers a lot. By the way, Rizhiner Rebbes were MUCH more open minded then their cousins (all of them had lekitei mohoran at home, even though they did not let their chasidim learn it for the reasons brought above)
The Falticaner's liking of Breslov, is a well known fact. I have heared it from a number of reliable sources. It is also stated in his Sefer Peukdas Eliezer in the Toldos. It is also a fact that Reb Moteler Tcnornbler Ztl granddaughter married Reb Nachman's grandson. I once asked a respected Skevere gentleman about this, and the idiot replied that "he completely cut off from the Derech of Breslov". I suppose wearing booths in the summer was more appealing than learning Leuketey Moharan.
The present Skevere visited once the Falticaner and on the table was the Lekutey Moharan. The Skvere was still in his young spirit and asked the host (who could have been his granfather) "Az by inz hot men nisht gehaleten fin deim". The Falticaner replied that the Sefer has Hascomos from the Kozniter Magid and The Rebbe of Lublin, and the Skvere responded, yea but the Hascomos are all forged. (Meziuef).. When he left the Falticaner was furious and told his ppeople. How dare a yungerman to say that its meziuef??? What about him himself "ahr iz yea emmes???
As far as Belz is concerned. Belz had no problem with Breslov per se. For Belz it was Kotsk, Chabad, Izbitza, Breslov , that were all banned together.
It is ironic how the Chabatzkers react when they get a taste of their own medicine. They are the worst in this regard, as they can't have a "farbrengen" without the leader (not just a badchan on purim) making derogatory remarks about other Jews. Many Chabatzkers, especially the tzugikumeners, associate "learning" Chasidus, with the bashing of all other yidden
Anon
"For Belz it was Kotsk, Chabad, Izbitza, Breslov , that were all banned together."
which part of Chabad was banned in Belz?
I saw this week that someone Non Chabadnik asked Bezler ruv Z"L if he should learn with bucherim a shiur tanya,
He answered as following,
in Belz was a Kepieda not to learn Kabola, Tanya is not Kabola.
Also all his Ungarische Chasidim learned tanya with no problem.
Gelk
Were you ever by reb yoels farbrengen,or by reb Sruel Friedman?
how many deragotory statements did you hear from him?
Anon
"yea but the Hascomos are all forged. (Meziuef).. When he left the Falticaner was furious and told his ppeople. How dare a yungerman to say that its meziuef??? What about him himself "ahr iz yea emmes???"
The rumor that it is forged, is not a Skverer invention, I heard it years ago from a Galicaner Rebbishe Einikel with no affiliation to skver and no enemy of Breslov.
I guess since the Faltichaner had no Chasidim from Belz or Chernobil, so he carried no family grudges.
I Heard from 2 of the yungeliet(today they are all great grandfathers) that he loved Likutie Sichos for the clarity, his vort on the Lubavicher Rebbe was always, Oifene Moach.
I guess the Stiens did not print it in their biography, They are molding him exactly to their whims.
"Were you ever by reb yoels farbrengen?"
Yup. He taimed down in his older years.
Chabad is the only krayz where their Rebbe preached kiruv in other religious groups. Yet, they would never allow anyone to bring "outside" influences to them. It was only natural for Yoel to give lectures near Mir yeshiva, years ago, imagine the inverse?
Gelk,
You and your ilk are such liars!!!. Naar hoyisi vegam Zokanti, and I never heard by any Lubavitcher Farbrengen any lambasting or lampooning of any other figure! Whoever says otherwise never attended Farbrengens! And of course talking about Reb Yoel, and claiming a brazen lie that only in his olden years he tamed, is insolence of the highest order! Lies pure lies. I attended hundreds of his Farbrengen and others, and usually besides generic and theoretical descriptions of the "other" there is no denigrating anyone in particular. Of course it is always possible that there is someone an idiot usually who did it, but it is never common fare.
And likewise, the comparison between the Rebbe criticizing without naming names a particular behavior or statement from anyone to open Letzones and personal insults and spoofing of a man passed on almost 2 decades while a so called Rebbe sits there and smiled, is so morally obtuse and demented that only this site can tolerate it.
is so morally obtuse and demented that only this site can tolerate it.
מה לך כי תלינו עלי???
and yes, in chabad farbregens (including those by r. yisorel fridman) deriding of respected individuals in the norm and it's done in front of youngsters and that is how they educate "unzere zibooris iz besser vie zeyere eedis"!
@Anon 6:34 --
Just to add, re the Kabolo idea:
In the recently published "Gishmei Brocha" (Printed in back of Seh l'Boyis; Tzig brought it here a bit ago), p704, the compiler R' Shimon Hirshler of London recalls:
סיפר לי הג"ר יוסף ליברמן, (רב דחסידי סאדיגורא בירושלים וראש כוללי "שומרי החומות", בעהמח"ס "משנת יוסף"), שהי' גיסו של הרה"ק מהר"א מבעלזא זי"ע. שפעם שאל אותו גיסו את סדר לימודיו, והגיד שלומד לפני התפלה טור וב"י הל' מקוואות, וגם ס' התניא. ושיבח מאד את ענין לימוד "מקוואות" קודם התפלה, ואמר שהוא דבר נכון והגון. ועל ס' התניא אמר לו שילמוד בו, אבל ידלג על עניני הקבלה שמובאים שם.
So even in Tanya, the non-Kabolo aspects only.
To be honest, Chabad definately has a superiority complex (and anyone who denies this never learnt in Tomchei Tmimim). From the way the Rebbeim are viewed to the way the chassidus and minhagim are addrssed, Chabad has always viewed their way as superior.
But...so what? They have been blessed with great leaders, great Torah and a derech that is now responsible for keeping Judaism alive across the world. As Jews we feel superior because of our yerusha - should Chabad not feel the same?? (Yes, some idiots here derisively called it a 'Kretchme', which is cute in a childish way. However, any of these idiots who would visit Kansas City, or Valdivistock or Santiago and wants a Kosher meal and a minyan will tell you that Chabad is your best bet.)
So yes, there is a superiority complex, but only an insecure person would take the wrong way. I can understand, however, how someone without such a glorious past could feel upset about this. But ultimately its harmless and wouldnt affect an outsider much unless it got in his head.
However, per a recent post, not once did the Rebbe ever make fun of someone, let alone let a clown get up on a table before him and do so (forget the immature giggling). Did he raise objections he had with other Jewish leaders in public? Yes. But so what? If the Satmar Rebbe wanted to stop giggling like a school girl and articulate what hes opposed to from Lubavitch, fine. However, considering he is barely qualified to be called a 'Rebbe' and can't come to his uncle or the Rebbe in Torah, I would expect nothing less than letting a laytzon publicly embarass one of the greatest Gedolei Yisroel of the previous century.
The fact that people can justify this because of something Chabad or the Rebbe may, or may not, have done is illogical. Since when is one entitled to make fun of another Jew publicly?? Add in the fact the Jew is deceased and Gadol B'Yisroel and you start realizing it will be very difficult to do T'shuvah here. I guess you can go to the Ohel and asking forgiveness b'rabim - but something tells me ZLT wont be making the trek to the Ohel any time soon.
The more I see and hear from Zalman Leib, the more impressed I am by his brother, who seems to carry at the least the dignified outside appearance of a Rebbe.
It was not only Belz. In Galitzya overall, the average Chosid did not dwell in the theological part of Chasiddus. In Belz the main emphsis was on learning Torah Bekdusa, The same was in the Sanzer School.(I must admit I have no idea what Bobov Chasiddius is all about. Maybe Mr Small town near Lemberg could enlighten us) The Ropshitzer school and it's offshoot's were the only place for a sprinkle of the deep stuff and some Kaballah.
"superiority complex" and the justification thereof and then complaining how others deride chabad.
In yuor mind you have a glorious past (adn you actually do). In the eyes of others, they claim to have a glorious past (which you would not understand since you weer raised to deride anything that is not in sync with your cultic upbringing). Deriding and undervaluing other jews is part of lubavitch. They cannot expect others not to emulate them in this regard.
Anon
who in sanz was by the tish, when he said the deep of the deepest torah of the divrie chaim al hatorah, he quotes very liberally the Moreh, Iqrim etc..
I know that the Klausenburger liked to scream that Sanz was torah and only torah, It was also long tishen every 2nd day...probably more Tishen then any Rebbe in the chasidic world. It was not black and white only torah. It does not contradict that he was a 1 of the biggest Lamdonim in his era.
You are correct that every group may it be Duscinsky or Krechnif are proud with their Heritage. But their are no public events of ridicule and hate in the above or in Chabad. Their is no reason to debate with you if you dont see the difference.
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