Friday, March 18, 2011

.....אמאליגע טעלז


The picture/poster is untouched by me. I'm not sure what those globs are that we see on the heads of Reb Lozer Levy and Rav Mordechai Gifter. It may have been added by the Telshe people at the time.

59 comments:

shmilu said...

Was Rabbi Davis from London?

azi said...

great find.

Can I get away with referring to RMG as Professor Gifter from now on?

klainer said...

There was a need to show that a Yeshivah was a place of learning on the same level as a college or university.It was an attempt to raise koved hatorah.

Anonymous said...

Was Rabbi Davis originally from London?

schneur said...

Authentic amolike Telz was in Lithuani!

bobov chusid said...

this is not belz this is telz, belz waz was a amall village near the big town of lemberg (lvov) where the people were very premitive and therefore very poor, dirty, ect. look at pictures of the chassidim of bach then and look at the pictures of the belzer chassidim of today.

telz got way much better, while belz is going backwards.

Anonymous said...

It was probably for the pell grants

Anonymous said...

Yes, Rabbi Davis was from London.

Anonymous said...

Bobov Chosid

Did you go Rimplen Already, with the feather in the hat?

Rav Elmer said...

And Bobov was like Paris or London or like Vilna and Cracow ?

Rav Elmer said...

And Bobov was like Paris or London or like Vilna and Cracow ?

dovy from jersey said...

shmilu, rabbi davis is from germany. (btw, he is currently in the Lakewood Courtyard)

Yonasan said...

Hirshel,
Did your father keep any connection with his rebbeim from his Mesivtah days in Telz-Wickliffe?

Anonymous said...

Bobov chusid

What is this obsession of yours, that you have with belz.

You would not want an open debate about all the skeleton's of Bobov which lie deep in the closet, would you?

eli said...

"rabbi davis is from germany"

I think he grew up in London and was saved from the War because he was a British citizen.
Btw, what is the Lakewood Courtyard,assisted care?
How is he doing and does he accept visitors?

Anonymous said...

this bobov chusid has serious issues he sure must be on the other side of the real bobovers figure out yourself on which side i mean

grainom said...

You would not want an open debate about all the skeleton's of Bobov which lie deep in the closet, would you?

bobbov has a walk in closet for all the strokes, you gotta wear the color of the day, and its gotto match...

LikeWhatever said...

Yach hub gehert ish m'pi fish that in der gitte yuhrin, Rabbi Max Gifter would refer to himself as a theologian, i never believed it but that proffesorishe glob on top seems to speak for itself.

Whats with the chatzitza thing? Is it as severe a problem a sguf naki?

JustWondering

Anonymous said...

Like Whatever
I don"t believe it, since Rav Gifter wrote all his life chidushim in Shas and Poskim,even in his early years. He never touched a theological subject, You can trace him down in old Kovtzim as Haprdes, Talpios etc...
FYI, for a short time he was a Rav in a Nusach Hoari shul.

Anonymous said...

Another point which may strike as "odd" in present-day Telshe --

The Yeshiva "symbol" appears to be in the shape of the Magen Dovid, apparently b'mchuvan in those days..

schneur said...

Since we are discussing Telz, what is the situation of the Mother yeshiva in Cleveland today , with minimum lashon Hora, are there talmidim there ? Who is in charge ?
In reality Charedi Jews have no theology, we are Talmudists or legal or rabbinic scholars , but our Xstian frineds woudl not understand rabbis who are legal scholars or talmudists (what is that) so we call ourselves theologians.
Besides the Rav , I can not think of 1 rosh yeshiva or rebbe who was a genuine theologian.(Which does not mean that I have given it much thought) They were as I said Rabbinic or legal scholars, scholars of Homiletics, of Ethics the Chabad peopel are scholars of Mysticism , the Mussarnikim are scholars of ethics or psychology.Perhaps Rabbi Hutner was a theologian (I never read much of his works)
Mogen david -It seesm that rabbi E M. Bloch was quit taken by the creation of a Jewish state in 1948.
If you look at HaNeeman published in Lita by the Zeirei Agudas israel in the 1930's under the guidance of the Telzer yeshiva, you will see how modern they were.
But as I have written many times, in America the students, financial backers etc are all Hungarians , Yekkim,or chassidim so the yeshiva needs to reflect these attitudes.
Any comments on the reception that Chief rabbi Amar got in lakewood. I see that its Shabbes shel me there ,1 week its a Teitelbaum the next week the chief rabbi of the Zionist state , who knows if a wealthy Lubavitcher gave them some money they would invite rabbis Reitport or Friedman or Braun to give a shiur....

Anonymous said...

Schneur
Rav Malkiel visited Gutnik in his hey days. His grandfather RAK took money from the Maryatz of Lubavich for his yeshiva, He send him a nice thank you letter.

Anonymous said...

Schneur
So far the Gifter family are in charge on the Telz Yeshiva, with no Bucherim,and reb Boruch Sorotzkins son, Reb Yitzchok is a Rosh yeshiva in a big yeshiva in Lakewood with no affiliation to BMG, with beautiful seforim on multi subjects. He left Telz on a days notice, in order not to create havoc.

Anonymous said...

actually anon you are wrong,
ziggy gifter is not running anything, although he is still in a din torah by the hisachdud against the hanhallah. there are still many big talmidei chachamim there: rav sholom shapiro, rav a.d. goldberg, rav shlomo eisenberger, rav yankel cohen, rav a.d. dowek. etc... the roshei yeshiva rav chaim stein and rav aizik ausband are in need of refuah shleimahs. the high school is doing well but the post high school needs more bochurim.

Anonymous said...

actually anon you are wrong,
ziggy gifter is not running anything, although he is still in a din torah by the hisachdud against the hanhallah. there are still many big talmidei chachamim there: rav sholom shapiro, rav a.d. goldberg, rav shlomo eisenberger, rav yankel cohen, rav a.d. dowek. etc... the roshei yeshiva rav chaim stein and rav aizik ausband are in need of refuah shleimahs. the high school is doing well but the post high school needs more bochurim.

grainom said...

Any comments on the reception that Chief rabbi Amar got in lakewood. I see that its Shabbes shel me there ,1 week its a Teitelbaum the next week the chief rabbi of the Zionist state , who knows if a wealthy Lubavitcher gave them some money they would invite rabbis Reitport or Friedman or Braun to give a shiur....

noone knew he was here

grainom said...

His grandfather RAK took money from the Maryatz of Lubavich for his yeshiva, He send him a nice thank you letter.

would love to see that one

Not a Telzer said...

Schneur,
The situation at Telz is complicated. It's hard to describe the matzav without Loshon Horo.

R'Gifter left his son Zalman in charge as menahel. The Beis Medrash rebbeim can't stand him for whatever reason, so it was impossible to run the place. A Din Torah or two paskened that regardless of the Rebbeim's feelings, Zalman had the right to be Menahel, who should run the Yeshiva with the others' input. Things didn't work out. Roshei Yeshiva from all over whose sons stand to inherit their baalus wrote and gave speeches saying that Yeshivas should not be run by yerusha. Someone went to R Eliyashiv, who signed a letter saying that "Ein Achar Maaseh Beis Din Klum" doesn't apply when it's a Mossad that has to be run. So while they were in the process of finding a new Beis Din with all of the shenanigans involved, the Rebbeim staged a coup d'etat by resurrecting a clause in the State of Ohio Articles of Incorporation long ignored that entrusts a Board to run the Yeshiva. They arranged to become Board Members and overthrew Zalman, went to the bank and took over the accounts. When Zalman went to the Bank to make a withdrawal, the Bank said that others had claimed to take over the accounts. Zalman objected and the Bank froze the Accounts. Then everybody jumped on Zalman, accusing him of starving rebbeim and yungeleit. Things went to Court and the Court found in favor of the By-Laws.

So Zalman Gifter has no power. R Chaim Stein had a stroke a few months ago and is in a Nursing Home. So the Yeshiva is being run by the group of all 7 or 8 rebbeim who sign as "Hanhalas Hayeshiva" on the Banquet Journals and letters. The High School seems to be doing well. The Beis Medrash is practically empty, with a few yungeleit learning away. And Rabbi Brog's yeshiva for rich and sincere baalei teshuva helps fill the space at times.

yakov said...

"who knows if a wealthy Lubavitcher gave them some money they would invite rabbis Reitport"

Schneour,
Actually ,Rabbi Reitport has at least one son-in-law in Lakewood,by the name of Rotberg.
He may have more there.So yes,I"m sure Rabbi Reitport could be saying a shiur in Lakewood.He is a big talmid chochom and mechadesh,tora ugedulah bemokom echod

yakov said...

," He send him a nice thank you letter.

would love to see that one"

Grainom, it's apparently true.Isser Zalman Weisberg,son of R'Yankel Weissberg had plans of opening a Chabad yeshiva lemetzuyonim in Lakewood.He set up a website with some historical documents and photos of Rayatz visiting Lakewood, and the letter from R'Aharon thanking him for a donation (the letter may have been about a donation to the yeshiva in Kletzk,Poland,don't remember the details)

Anonymous said...

Grainom
I saw the letter the first time in Algemiener Journal

schneur said...

Who is Rabbi Brog and what is this yeshiva he heads ?

shauly said...

Hirshel
Off topic
Please, if you don't mind tell me what R'Yankaleh Galinsky is doing sitting near the choson at the Brod chasena? Yisroel Brod is the ceo of Kfar Chabad mag.It seems that R'Yankaleh is the zeideh??Could it be?
pics here http://www.col.org.il/%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%97%D7%91%D7%93_%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%9B%D7%9C_%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%A8_%D7%97%D7%91%D7%93_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%9F_%D7%91%D7%9F_%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%9C_%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%A5_%D7%94%D7%92%D7%99%D7%A2%D7%95_%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%92%D7%95%D7%92_%D7%92%D7%9C%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%94_60716.html

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I know that R Yankele has Galinsky Lubavitcher eyniklach, not sure if Brod is his eydem, though. He was also a shvogger with Reb Yitzchok Lipshitz, a Lubavitcher mashpia in Yerushalayim.

shauly said...

Thank you

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you're very welcome

Not a Telzer said...

R' Yisroel Brog is a grandson of R Avigdor Miller and a Sorotzkin son-in-law. He has a Kiruv operation / Yeshiva called Tiferes Avigdor or Ateres Avigdor in Wickliffe OH, and lives on the Telz Campus, where his Talmidim / Balebatim built a Beis Medrash Annex to his home. But it's an operation totally separate from the Telshe Rabbinical College.

The moral of that story, and those of R Yitzchak Sorotzkin who ran to Lakewood, and R Yankel Velvel Katz who started a Kollel in Cleveland, is that those who leave Telz are happier and more successful in their Avodas Hakodesh.

Shmuel said...

R'Hirshel,
Was R'Shlomo Davis ur fathers rebbi?
Anyone know about him?

Anonymous said...

not a telzer,
neither rav yitzchok nor yankel velvel are happy with what they are doing now (for some reason i doubt that you are not a telzer)

lozmirup said...

HT,
R Yankel Galinsky is brods uncle. He has a son that became a chossid but he's sitting oiben un as mishpacha.

Anonymous said...

telz, machlokis
ponovitz, machlokis
lakewood, (was?) machlokis
belz, machlokis
viznitz, machlokis
satmar, what? ..

Anonymous said...

oops forgot:
bobov, machlokis

Anonymous said...

I remember Telz Cleveland very well, right before R'Gifter started to decline health wise. The yeshiva was packed, with of course litvishe and even chassidishe bochurim. This was around '92 and the chevra could still smoke in the back (at night anyways). Friday night cholent and kumtziz, and late night, every night hasmoda. The bochurim then were from the finest in any yeshiva.

I remember the sheidim infested woods on the way to yeshiva lane and the farkakde cafeteria mit gor geshmake hot dogs.

Datz zich mir, rabbi shapiro (maybe hershfield?) was of a lubavitcher background - if i recall correctly he used to daven nusach ari.

I also remember getting semi-beat up by a russian lubavitcher bochur who was learning there at the time for immigration purposes, when i tried showing off my lubavitcher allegiance by singing didan notzach. oh well.

they say Rabbi Sorotzkin (binyomin?) in e"y (telz-stone) is the grester kop in the family (he is also a michber seforim).

Chaval al d'avdin!

Chuck Chuck etc. said...

Why do you allow such loshon horoh and zilzul and gedoley olam? (I am referring to the last two weeks bichlal; I have been on 'vacation')
It sickins my snaggy stomach. Viphel iz dei shiur? To bahredt the same person or krayzen again and again! You gain so little from it, that the chet is so big - it is not a real nisoyen, it's just hergel. It behooves me that a ben-aliyah and a chosid who works on himself, can allow this madness and not find a different outlet; there gotta be another one.

Anonymous said...

@Grainom, and Anon 9:08 -

IIRC, flowery letters of thanks and praise from RAK to Rayatz and back, were printed in either Heichal HaBesht or Ohr Yisroel around 5762-3.

Not sure if same or others..

Talmid said...

"telz, machlokis
ponovitz, machlokis
lakewood, (was?) machlokis
belz, machlokis
viznitz, machlokis
satmar, what? .."

ALL due to the fact that yorshim are claiming communal positions.

Anonymous said...

r yankele galinsky has lubavitch aineklach in LA who always try to be mekarev him...

yoni said...

Anonymous5:26pm
Telz in '92 WAS not even a shadow of it's glorious past in the 50's and 60's.It had world class magidei shiur but for some reason could not make it.
The fellow with Lubavitch backround you meant is R'Boruch Hershfeld an iluy who runs a kolel in Cleveland.He is Australian and came to Telz as a kid.I'm not sure what his connection to Chabad was, maybe attending a Chabad school in Australia.His kids are not Chabad at all and probably their only shaychus is that the grow beards as bochurim

gevezener ponovizher said...

reb yankele galinsky is shvoger to reb chatskl brod o"h. mrsgalinsky is r chatskls sister

Anonymous said...

Here's a cute Telz anecdote I heard firsthand from a younger, litvishe brother of R' Moti Berger (shliach to Ottawa. Now of Australia).

Berger's were a mishpocha who went to Telz, but would go - as many veltishe mishpochos - into Yechidus, not as chasidim, just to go in as a family tzu a tzadik.

Moti eventually became Lubavitch, and apparently his nei'e midos etc, were impressionable on another brother. In a subsequent yechidus, he asked the Rebbe to go to Tomchei Tmimim. The Rebbe answered, "du zohlst bleib'n in Telz.."

In other words, the Rebbe wasn't into, as commonly misinterpreted, another 212-RECRUIT mission organization. V'akatzer.

paneth said...

anon 11:04:00 AM,
What were all the underground tanya shiurim about?And how come a very large percentage of chabad, such as hirshel are gevoreners??
I think Chabad numbers more or less break down to a third Lubavitch born and bred a third baalei teshuva and a third frum from birth and their famuilies that became chabad.Let's try not avoid some uncomfortable truths

Anonymous said...

Paneth
"Let's try not avoid some uncomfortable truths"

I am very comfortable with the Tanya Shiurim, Yirbi Kemosom B' Yisroel

Anonymous said...

Talmid
we are all human, and thats why we have Choshen Mishpat on Hichas Nachla

Anonymous said...

the anon who said that binyomin sorotzkin is the biggest kop in the family: you obviously do not know binyomin or rav yitzchok or rav elya meir. of the three binyomin is definitely third in brains.

Talmid said...

"we are all human, and thats why we have Choshen Mishpat on Hichas Nachla"

Clearly it's not working. These dynasties are killing us. How about a meritocracy in communal istitutions?

Anonymous said...

What year is this from???

Anonymous said...

>>neither rav yitzchok nor yankel velvel are happy with what they are doing now

How do you know if R' Yitzchok is happy or not?
He confides in you?

Linda Karp said...

Although I am not fond of the new hanhollo, I feel sad that frum jews must engage in blogs, because a blog by nature is Loshon Hora and worse than eating chazir. Wouldn't life be more productive if we wrote something constructive and left ROSHEI Yeshiva who passed rest in peace? We'll see if you include this constructive comment to some of the aforestated abuse.
Linda Karp

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Thanks, Linda