Saturday, February 18, 2012

דער כח פון א חסידיש'ען ניגון

Click here to be inspired. כ'ווייס נישט ווער דער בעל דרשן איז, אבער זאגען זאגט ער גאר גוט A timely short lecture especially now that the destruction of Chassidishe Neginah has become universal. They might have good intentions, but the destruction remains nevertheless. Not that I have a problem with the tremendous Simcha shel Mitzvah in Toldos Aron that you see below! It's wonderful! I love it and I wish I was there, it's just that it's not the nigun was intended to be sung.

34 comments:

ענדע צדיק said...

As someone who'se carried away by this tune, perhaps you want to put up a recording viazoi men darf es yo zingn.

Anonymous said...

כיצד מרקדין לפני הכלה:
ר' איציקל זצ"ל כותב: מי שראה דודי הק' משינאווא זי"ע בריקוד לפני הכלה היה רואה שראשו נשא את רגליו ולא רגליו את ראשו,
ושהה"ק מבייטש, ציוה שהכלה תזיז ג"כ

מצוה טאנץ הוא ע"פּ קבלה
להמשיך חיות להכלה עילאה, שמורה נגד המלכות, נגד הה"א תתאה

But to make video/pictures on the internet That's a cutzpah!

Shmuel said...

The Baal Darshan sounds like Reb Yom Tov Erlich ZT"L.

Could be him. Tough call though.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

RYTE would be highly offended, I think, when he found out who you think he sounds like...

And its not Reb Leibel וויינשטאק either, as one person tweeted me.

Shmuel said...

RYTE would never take offense. He would probably just smile, and laugh it off.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

he sure took offense to his shtiebel in Willi being sold! and that was his REBBE selling it!!

Shmuel said...

Back to work I guess. Cant win today.

Anonymous said...

"But to make video/pictures on the internet That's a cutzpah!"
said who?

Anonymous said...

anon 1:29, "said who?"

לא תעשה לך פסל וכל תמונה
עיין דרכי תשובה על יורה דעה, שו"ת דברי מלכיאל,ועוד

That the איסור is on any kind of photagraphy, Chasidim הקדמונים special where מדקדק on this! But חסידי ר' אהרעל'ע by a מצוה טאנץ now that's a חוצפה יתירה !

Anonymous said...

Anon
"anon 1:29, "said who?"

לא תעשה לך פסל וכל תמונה
עיין דרכי תשובה על יורה דעה, שו"ת דברי מלכיאל,ועוד"
Internet is not a dovur hamiskayem, its like passing a mirror,its not related to that Issur, which anyway according to most posskim is not prohibited at all, the first time it was brought up, was in a mussar speech of reb Yonasan Eibshutz in Yarois Devash,but that ois only derush.
Think about it, how did the only son of the Darkie Teshuvah the holy Munkacher, the biggest kanoi of them all, appear on TV, he knew its getting transmitted to the USA

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Chasidim הקדמונים special where מדקדק on this"
I saw personaly and read about many holy tzadikim hat were not makpid on it at all, starting by the Maharid of Belz, Imrie emes, The Satmar Ruv by protests....

Anonymous said...

anon 2:51, "he knew its getting transmitted to the USA" "Satmar Ruv by protests"

בכגון דא נאמר, עת לעשות לד' הפרו תורתך

Anonymous said...

Anon
"בכגון דא נאמר, עת לעשות לד' הפרו תורתך"
then the Zionist can say the same...

Anon3 said...

When I try to access this clip the message I get is "missing plug-in" the same happens on the post about Litzman.This happens when I use Google Chrome as my browser.When I use Opera I have no problem.What gives?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon3
which clip, the one I link to or the one I posted with the player?

If it's the latter then you need to D/L Quicktime.

Fargin said...

Fargin you could not post this video clip without attaching this audio clip in the same post
is the first time that you realized that a nigun can be from the bad side?
Fargin

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I fargin you, but I have no idea what you said...

Anonymous said...

So Hirshel,, who is this darshan

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I dunno yet who this darshan is. But do you like what he says? how he sings? What he's singing?

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
I hear in the middle a Rachmistrivker nigun, heard it on the new Rachmistrivk Yershaliem CD

anon3 said...

The one with the player.I downloaded Quicktime but am still getting zilch.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon3
I feel your pain and would like to help.

Maybe try restarting the computer?

berl, crown heights said...

the audio clip is beautiful – thanks!

Anonymous said...

anon 4:44 "then the Zionist can say the same..."

And they do but on, בכגון דא נאמר למיימינים סמא דחייא למשמאילים סמא דמותא

וכבר אמרו, כשהוא טב לית טב מיניה וכשהוא ביש לית ביש מיניהו

Anonymous said...

please put your Loshen kodesh quotes with the Mossek Midvash for the strong aramic and soncino/artscroll for english translation, not all circus tents participants are as astute in this lingo..

Anonymous said...

anon 1:25, "not all circus tents participants are as astute in this lingo.." כשהוא טב לית טב מיניה וכשהוא ביש לית ביש מיניהו

This a לשון דר' יעקב עמדין ז"ל בעניני זיווג
I adopted it thinking is relevent to the discussion.

אברבנאל said...

דער בעל-מספר איז נח נאַכבוש
און דער שטיקל קומט פֿון באַנד חסידיש "דער גילגול פֿון א ניגון"פֿון יצחק-לייבוש פּרץן

Anonymous said...

As 'Ende' started off the commentary on this post, I too await a link to, or at least some info about the 'proper' version of this niggun, or the niggun you think they’re supposed to be singing.

That being said... I understand, somewhat, a Lubavitcher decrying a variation or deviation in a niggun; they pride themselves on the precision of how they sing nigunnim with exactitude. Of some nigunnim they even have 3 or 4 nuschaos. This is someway understandable, as they put a great emphasis on correct dikuk, especially with 'krias hatorah'.

However, most chassiddim(s.c. peilishe),based on clear teachings of the heilge BSh"T and his heilge talmidim quoting midrashim on the verse, "v'dilugo alay ahava", subjugated correct dikduk to the dictates and expression caused by fervor of spirit and soul. This even in mandated t’philos and taamei hamikra which are halacha l’moshe m’sinai, how much more so by a niggun k’muvan…

Anonymous said...

Anon
I guess u were never by a real Viznitzer tish, I remember years ago seeing 2 elderly 70 year old Vinitzer Chasidim fighting over a Tenua of a nigun, it was almost a fist fight. I heard the Imrie chaim went berserk when he heard a false tune on the other end of shul

Anonymous said...

I've seen as much in Squelene and other chasidic music scenes. I'ts most likely a relatively recent development, which aniyus daaty tels me is just another sign of chasidim losing their edge and becoming evermore an orthodoxy to rival even pre-BSh"T missnagedim.

Aderabbe! Please explain it otherwise? Of course you can pshetle it away; but, c'mon?!

Anonymous said...

And of course I understand while singing with a group, naturaly some one sticks to certain limitations lest the song become disharmonious or a cacaphony. However, when singing solo, or as the case of this post, a group adopting a niggun ofanother group and adpting it to their own taste, what can possibly be wrong?

Zvi Hersh said...

I am regular reader and some time commenter here. I have had the pleasure to speak with Reb Hirshel through email on occasion.
Usually I have posted under Anonymous. Time for me to change that.

This comment is concerning the Toldos Aron nigun video, which is a nigun meyuchos ltalmidei Hatzemech Tzedek. Some say to the Tzemech Tzedek himself.

In the year when 'Yeilchu mechayil el choyil' was sung for the Rebbe, this niggun was one of the versions with those words.

Interestingly enough, the only other niggun of Chassidei Hatzemech Tzedek , was the topic of discussion here a few weeks ago, with Reb Caleb singing/butchering of that niggun.

Here is the niggun:

http://216.53.71.16:8080/ramgen/770live/nigunim/dovid_hurwitz/042.rm

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

תתחדש, ר' צבי הירש on the new name, and thanks for the link

תפוח said...

Hirshel Tzig: תתחדש, ר' צבי הירש on the new name

רמ"א: נוהגין לאכול תפוח מתוק בדבש ואומרים תתחדש