Sunday, November 27, 2005

A whole lot of Neckties :)


כינוס השלוחים תשס"ו

45 comments:

n said...

dont know about ties, but hats and beards yes, soldiers and revolutionaries for sure!

Hirshel Tzig said...

Soldiers aren't usually the ones doing the revolutionizing, otherwise you're in trouble. They should just follow orders.

lonely blogger said...

Thousands of soldiers go to different locales worldwide under the auspices of one leader. Each soldier revolutionizes his locale and is therefore a special kind of revolutionary... These are not regular soldiers, ie. physical combatants, but rather spiritual warriors...The leader still is credited with conceiving and energizing the mission..... Also there is no micromanagement of the soldiers daily battle...the battle instruction is largely spiritual..so really one could argue that there are no orders to follow...

TzviBP28 said...

'The leader still is credited with conceiving and energizing the mission..... '
The leader takes the credit.Who takes the blame for the (many) meshichisten, boreinuniks and stam loonies?

Anonymous said...

The leader is beyond reproach.

n said...

tzvi,
perpective is everything...i sat in a room last night with 2,000 shluchim....some talented, some less so, but all certainly hard working with mesiras nefesh, even you would have been impacted by the reality of the Rebbe's Army...the loony count you ask? A lubavitch shliach 'loonie' can't keep it up in the outside world for too long in big numbers...so imagine being deliriously wanton in finding 'loonies': imagine there were 20 or 40 in the crowd, 1 or 2%? Not too bad, or rather the converse, very impressive..

the real"tzvibp28" said...

please do not use my screenname from other forums.

TzviBP28 said...

N,It's unfortunately no secret that Chabad is going through a major crisis since the Rebbe took ill and actually about two years before the stroke.
The 'meshichisten' are not 1 or 2 percent, in my guesstimate we would be speaking about 30% of adults and the most disturbing part:A majority of the youth.We are seeing some very disturbing theology emanating from the Lubavitch camp.The milder form is a blessing for the Rebbe to live 'forever and ever' besides being foolish, blessing a deceased person to 'live', it also raises the very real possibility that the people saying a human being should live forever and ever view him as a 'deity'.
The wilder form and group actually expresses that sentiment clearly. They chant 'long live OUR CREATOR' seen the Rebbe as the Creator.
So, while getting together an army of 2000 emmisaries is very impressive and creditworthy who is to blame for the start of a very dangerous movement, that we now see is only growing, opening it's own network of schools,websites etc.
Let's be candid now:Who is to blame for this? If Chabad was a corporation the CEO would have had to step down.
(please no dumb answers about the seeing of a precedent blessing for King David, yechi hamelech dovid leolom, look at the commentaries ad loc, it does not mean a physical life)

Hirshel Tzig said...

Tzvi
I know you are not Tzvi, change your name or I'll be forces to delete your comments!

n said...

How can you diagnose the 'crisis' without knowing the body of the purported afflicted one? the strength and vibrancy of Lubavitch despite not having a physical Rebbe is becoming apparent to the general category of those not appreciative of lubavitch. This category was upset/jealous about the Rebbe('s success), how much more so today that 'orfans' are carryin out their father's will with an even greater intensity and in more numbers than when he was alive... be honest..this must just eat you up...be a man, step into a lubav shul and say lechaim!

Anonymous said...

What exactly do I need to know?I visit 770 and can see for myself what is happening and it isn't pretty.
Btw, you write that 'Lubavitch is vibrant despite not having a physical Rebbe' I don't know about 'vibrant' but Lubavitch has managed despite the Rebbes passing.However that raises the question:Why no new rebbe?I'm posing this to you,N, not to the meshichistin that 'have' a rebbe.Every chasidic dynasty appoints a new rebbe,why are you different? (I suspect the answer is that there truly are very few talmidei chachomim in Lubavitch who could become rebbe)
Tzig is angry that I 'borrowed' his name, so I shall remain anonymous

Hirshel Tzig said...

anonymous

as much talmidei chachomim as the other new rebbes are I think we can manage...

Hirshel Tzig said...

may I know your name in hydepark?

is it Yohcee?

Anonymous said...

I don't post on Hyde Park, just read.

Anonymous said...

I just saw this on shmais.com.(in serious contention with The Jewish Press in being named the dumbest Jewish medium)
'Spreading the Lubavich faith, nation by nation'
An article about the kinnus from Metro.Notice it's about spreading the 'Lubavitch faith' NOT the Jewish faith, and that sums up our problem with Lubavitch.It has become a different faith

Anonymous said...

While browsing the Shmais I saw another 'chidush' of the Lubavitch 'faith', giving the noted professor and laywer Allan Dershowitz, one of the keynote addresses.Don't you Lubabs think that it's not appropriate to allow a person who grew up orthodox and became frei address a once a year chizuk kinnus?Will Chabad do anything to make themselves 'popular' in the eyes of the 'freyeh'?Does the 'haskomoh' of Allan Dershowitz, mean antyhing to a frum yid??
I guess your 'faith' allows for this as long as they praise the Rebbe as the greatest Jewish leader ever.Explains why you guys are so busy 'lecking' Eli Wiesel

Hirshel Tzig said...

so anonymous, you're saying that it's a Befeirushe newspaper that Lubavitch is a "different faith" ? If so then הייב איך הענט

avremel said...

Alan Dershowitz grew up Orthodox? just because he went to Eitz Chaim in Boro Park means he was Orthodox? The man can't say a Ches, and has much difficulty with Hebrew words, I find that hard to believe.

n said...

any said:
I visit 770 and can see for myself what is happening and it isn't pretty.

n says:
lubavitch can be assessed/
diagnosed more accurately by walking into the kinnus hashluchim at the hilton rather than 770 on any particular day...

any said:
Why no new rebbe?I'm posing this to you,N, not to the meshichistin that 'have' a rebbe.
n says:
the history of lubavitch in who is a succeddeing rebbe is a combination of the 'seed of the tzadik' and a grass roots natural selection of whom the chasidim want to follow. Today the 'seed of the tzadik' is history and although i and all lubavs including the wildest meshichisten are desirous of a living rebbe, one can't just go thru the rolodex of lubavitch and pick the best tzadik for the job....

any said:
Every chasidic dynasty appoints a new rebbe,why are you different?

n says:
What the lubavitcher rebbeim have been to lubavitcher chasidim is not a post that can be filled by appointments of the best talmid chochem. The magnitude of the persona of the rebbe was extraordinary; he was a tzadik who saved yiddishkeit one jew at a time, and accomplished paving the road toward moshiach during the most trying of eras. How would you write such a help wanted ad?

any said:
'Spreading the Lubavich faith, nation by nation'
n says:
why do you blame the victim of poor reporting of the Jewish Press? Grow up any.

any said:
Dirshowitz

n says:
who said he grew up so orthodox? the main point here is: he is a supporter of lubavitch who supporters of the shluchim (not all shomer shabbes yet)who come to the banquet may get excited about. Dirshowitz is a means to an end that doesn't compromise lubavitch or yiddishkeit....this was highlighted when the chairman of the kinnus followed up with dirshowitzs speech by thanking him and saying that we all look forward to the day when you gain a more complete understanding and follow everything the rebbe said....

Anonymous said...

'and follow everything the rebbe said....'
The last words caught my eye. In a Fruedian slip are you trying to prove my point that your 'faith' is about following what the Rebbe says and Judaism is about following what G-d says?

Hirshel Tzig said...

You've got to be kidding, right?

You've gotten down to this being your complaint?

I guess we debunked all your previous claims?

Anonymous said...

Another 'he'oro'
My point about Shmais (the semi official Lubavitch newsite) was that using the headline about the 'Lubavitch faith' was actually very apropo, but strange that they saw no problem in 'admitting' so.It brings to mind the famous comment that Lubavitch is the closest religion to Judaism.

Anonymous said...

n says:
What the lubavitcher rebbeim have been to lubavitcher chasidim is not a post that can be filled by appointments of the best talmid chochem. The magnitude of the persona of the rebbe was extraordinary; he was a tzadik who saved yiddishkeit one jew at a time, and accomplished paving the road toward moshiach during the most trying of eras. How would you write such a help wanted ad?

And Judaism teaches
''So, please explain to us mere mortals why There will not be another Lubavitcher Rebbe, why our tradition teaches us that 'Yiftach bedoro ke'Shmuel bedoro' Yiftach, who 'chazal' critique is still like Shmuel hanovi in his generation.Our generation is not Shmuels, the Rambams or the the Rasha'bs,THEREFORE A RABBI of our 'dor' will suffice, it's clear that Chabad needs a leader NOW! ''

n said...

its clear now that you need some professional counseling...since lubavitchers care about even antaganists (with mental problems) you are no exception...we'll chip in so that you have chance to get better. Where do we send the collection? Is it possible any of us know you personally?

Anonymous said...

"A whole lot of Neckties"

Shluchim are more likely to wear neckties than other Lubavitchers, esp. CH ones ?

Anonymous said...

'n said...
its clear now that you need some professional counseling...since lubavitchers care about even antaganists (with mental problems) you are no exception...we'll chip in so that you have chance to get better. Where do we send the collection? Is it possible any of us know you personally? '

You've run out of things to say so you turn to personal insults?
Typical ' blame the messenger'

Anonymous said...

איך האב געמיינט אז דו ביסט אויסגעוואקסען די שנאה און שטותים וואס מ'האט דיר געפיטערט אין חדר, זעהט אויס אז נישט...

The above is from a certain blogger who unfortunately does not practice what he preaches.This blogger repeats attacks he heard as a young, undeveloped child against the likes of The Alter from slabodka, 'father' of many yeshivos and many other respected Rabbis.He even goes as far as mocking the nice Jewish name of a respected english rabbi, who has currently a senior position in the largest rabbinical college in America.
Everybody is a 'hater' according to him, but when he spews venom it's love.....go figure.

Anonymous said...

''So, let’s say I land from the moon in Hilton. I see 3,000 Rabbis who consider their task is to return Jews to the observant life listening with open mouths to a Jew who is not longer openly observant. Yes, read up in his Chutzpa book about his Shomer Shabbos days in Yale. What is going on there?
But of course Lubavitch today is the engine running on the fundraising fuel, moved by the Jewish nostalgia. There is no better person to lubricate this engine than a high profile celebrity like the Professor.

He is calling himself a Misnaged and he forgets his Williamsburg grandfather who was a chosid of the Malach (see comments here to the Reb Shneor Zalman Hakohen Blesovsky, OHS post). But on to the prescribed by the professor kiruv approach that he learned from the Rabeinu Hirschy Zarchi: “don't ask Harvard students to do anything inconsistent with their own secular philosophy, don't conduct any Chabad programs for example that require men and women to sit separately, therefore don't have Shabbat services necessarily, don't have Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur services”.

Hirschy is a Chabad celebrity chef of Harvard. He runs a kosher soup kitchen for students. The Harvard students are not there to get lectured; they have plenty of that in the school. There are there to chill with the cholnt. I guess davening together on Yom Kippur is not that important in the scheme of things. Professor Dershowitz says it is the way to go.''

From the 'other' site.
I see that others have also realized how inappropriate to give guest speaker status in a 'kiruv kennes' to somebody who WAS ORTHODOX!!??? and 'fried out'
Than various smart alecks will start saying 'he only went to Etz Chaim, but he wasen't frum' yeah, right!His mom still lives (or lived I'm not sure of her current status)in Boro Park.I personally know of cousins who live in Kiryas Yoel and Boro Park.
You have to understand though:Lubavitch machine cares little about what the average heimishe Jew thinks, there cheshbon is how much money and kovod they can milk out of it.Their donors are not heimishe yidden, generally.So we have the ultimate absurd here:A guy from an Orthodox backround becomes mechalel shabbos, than gets 'awarded' as guest speaker!!Only in Lubavitch, folks.....

Friendly Anonymous said...

So shluchim should all go on welfare, azoi vi di ale andere heimisher yidden?

n said...

any, lets figure this out together...Dirsh is a guy who was shomer shabbes as a child say 50-60 years ago when frum wasn't so frum,who went on to university life, became a noted academic, and left some measure of jewish observance. today he is proudly jewish, connects with lubavitch even though he is not a chosid. I imagine also that some levels of observance have been strengthened in the last few years. He is not an evil person, but rather a person who is growing and reconnecting...He wasn't introduced as HaRav Ha Tzadik , but rather as a university professor..no lubavitcher is looking to emulate him, and a yid who is reconnecting by association with chassidim isn't treif. His assessment/perception about laxity of halacha for the sake of unity at the chabad house on campus at harvard is mistaken. So? a guy makes a mistake! big deal. DId two thousand shluchim sign a petition endorsing every dirsh word?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I find it hard to believe that the poster anonymous really is that childish. A simple canvass of the dinners and Melava Malkas of many fine Charedi institutions will see speakers and honorees that are far from Judaism, as well as non-Jews. He knows that, yet chooses to ignore it, very typical.

Every child and adult in the room knows who he is and takes his words with pounds of salt, just as when the Mayor or Governor would come to the Satmar Rov before an election and speak proudly in his presence of his strong commitment to Israel. The SR would sit and listen and would not contradict him! Do we say that he endorses what he says, no!

Dershowitz is a Mekurev of Chabad who sees things his way, and translates the intentions of Rabbi Zarchi as he sees fit. His speaking there was like having a Russian child who was niskarev speaking of his experiences, just more of a marquee name.

avremel said...

Imagine if he would be a descendant of Lubavitchers what scorn would be heaped on Lubavitch. Since he's from the Williamsburg quasi-Chabad sect it's OK.

Hirshel Tzig said...

anonymous

stop with the hydepark cross-posting, or referencing.

Anonymous said...

Alan Dershowitz went to Etz Chaim and then to BTA - so he went to a religious all boys H.S. as well. He is not descended from one of the malochim group - that was his uncle or great uncle - not an ancestor of his.

Hirshel Tzig said...

" and he forgets his Williamsburg grandfather who was a chosid of the Malach "

Did you just not say that?

So why say that's his uncle?

Anonymous said...

HT - that was not me - that was a different 'anonymous'. Sorry for the confusion (I thought maybe you could see that, via technical means, but perhaps not).

anon1 said...

Tzig,
Why are you angry that I picked a couple of your posts from 'Chadoshos Anash'?A)Answer why, you are 'allowed' to attack a even a guys name (remember your mat-tit-ya-hoo remark?)besides many rabonnim and you are not 'gefittered' with 'sinoh' while they are?
B)Are you ashamed how you basically 'beg' for acceptance there, going so far as to 'thank' somebody for saying something good about Lubavitch?
C)Because there you claim to be a newcomer to Lubavitch and here you have claimed to be there for generations?

anon1 said...

To answer Tzigs questions why I'm bothered by Dershowitz addressing the kinnus:
*If the Satmar Rebbe privately accepted a non religous jew, you compare it to guest speaker status in front of 2000 people????(that childish?)
*Notice that I steered away from mentioning the fact that a non religous jew addressed the banquet BUT focused on the fact that this person grew up Orthodox! Do you seriously not realize this?The fact that some institutions(but rarely yeshivas)will have a non frum GUEST SPEAKER is a problem, but the 'tinok shnishbah' status makes it more lenient.Here a kiruv organization is using a mechalel shabbos to darshen!!!Unbelievable.
*Dershowitz has not come closer to halachik yiddishkait what has happened is that Chabad has lowered it's already lax standards!
So let's not go there.

What has really happened in my opinion is this:Due to Lubavitchs' status as 'closest religion to Judaism' (though that status seems to be in danger due to some scary turns)They are not bound by Judaic concepts, for them realizing the greatness of the Rebbe is paramount(Hanosi hoo hakol)observing most halachik requirments is of secondary inportance.Dershowitz fits the bill.
*Just think what is going through the professors head now.'I get to eat the cake and keep it whole'Leave Orthodoxy but get to speak in front of the most power hungry Orthodox group as guest speaker!Cool!!''

Hirshel Tzig said...

false piety is the kind, you get to preach it in front of others, yet don't need to practice it. I should try it one day.

Hirshel Tzig said...

"false piety is the kind,"

should read "the BEST kind"

avremel said...

can someone tell this bozo that the point of having Dershowitz speak is to have him and others tell of their experiences with Chabad, and not to teach "Hashkofoh"?

BOZO said...

Yeah, we heard of Dershowitz's experiences with Chabad:Dumbing down yiddishkait.Egalitarian gatherings.Kugel.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Bozo

go to aish, see what they sell, then come back and talk. OK?

looking for a good fight said...

ht, you're sparing has improved! (thats boxing lingo)

Hirshel Tzig said...

SPARRING has 2 r's

look it up.