Saturday, May 30, 2009

When's the moment?

Over Yom Tov there was lots of discussion amongst the Yungeleit about Chabad not saying Akdomus or Megillas Rus. They wanna know why not? It seems like there's more of an awakening these days. They wanna know "Mah Nishtana?" us from them? I don't think it's a lack of pride or doubting their ways, just a bechina of da mah sheToshiv. Ok, OK, calm down, all of you. I wasn't calling you Apikorsim, it's only a figure of speech. Really. All this discussion gets one thinking: In my humble opinion there's a moment on Yom Tov when one could say that at that moment was his Kabbolas HaTorah. Vos heist? Well, you might say that Kabbolas HaTorah happens when one accepts upon himself Hachlotos Tovos in the realm of learning and being a better Jew. That moment most likely doesn't happen during Shavuos night - whether you learn BeHasmodoh Rabboh or say "Tikkun" like a boorish Chossid - at least that's how I see it. There isn't that one moment anytime during the night, it just doesn't lend itself to it, I'm sorry to say. You can't tell me that when you're arguing over the Pshat in a tosfos that you feel any different than on a poshuter Mitvoch. The same goes for the "Tikkun-sayers;" It doesn't happen between Mitzvas Asey 112 to 113.

After some thought I figured it out. If you've ever been to a Rebbe or a Gutter Yid where he does the honors you know what I mean. It's not the Aseres HaDibros that one feels the moment. After all, exactly which of the Dibros would cause that? I'll go out on a limb here and say that it happens during Akdomus. Pick and choose the posuk that most suits the need, but it happens. There's the fact that there was all this preparation with the cheder yinglech. The Rebbe/Gutter Yid is on a high, BeHislahavus Atzumah, and the Oylem reciprocates. At that time, when the Rebbe/GY is saying his two pesukim, then the oylem has a chance to contemplate the meaning of the YT, and what is expected of them. You might say it was like the hefsek between the sets of tekios, where the Baal Tokea either says a יה"ר or is מתודה בלחש, those seconds can be very precious if utilized properly. If you think these are the thoughts of a foolish Hungarian wannabe like myself, think again. Several people told me לפי תומם when I asked them about it that this was the closest thing to the truth. That despite their misgivings about frum society as a whole saying Akdomus at so-and-so's minyan KeVosikin you mamesh feel like you're elevated to the highest spheres. "Like you're at barg sinai," like one fellow told me.

I may have written here once about my zeide's trip to Kosoni for Shavuos, 1943, to the Rebbe di "Ohr Mooleh," HY"D. The Kosonyer bichlal was known to daven עד אפיסת הכחות ממש, and Shavuos was no exception. My zeide told us how מ'האט געשפירט ווי מ'שטייט ממש ביים בארג סיני. Take that for what it's worth, but I would think that a whole lotta of Tshuvah - especially in 1943 - was done at those moments. I'm not here to judge whether or not those undertakings during Shavuos morning are sincere or not; the fact remains that they're there. They exist. They happen. Whether or not we keep them is another discussion for another time.
So we've taken care of a large segment of the Charedi population: Most Chassidim and maybe some pockets of Hungarians like Erloi and Vien. I don't think Yeshivishe places koch zich in Akdomus, even if they do say it, so you might say that they share the problem with Lubavitchers. When is their moment and when is mine? We're a generation that needs our Chitzoniyus, we cannot do it like the previous ones did. When was I supposed to experience it? למה נגרע?! I see that the procession of VIPs to the Kotel is going on all week in Yerushalayim, there's Tashlumin Kol Shivah. Can I have that week to make up for the missed experience?!


Maybe A Litvak said...


Go to AY if you want to say an akadumus show par exallance

Anonymous said...

I believe Mondshine in his oitzar has the reason, don't be a putz and look it up

Anonymous said...

Every Chassidus has his spirutal hilight of Shvous, in Satmar it was the pulling down the talis to the navel and you cry on Ahava Rabo, in Belz its the Uvoi Chilom Tish etc,, the Akdomis was not the punchline in every chassidus.

avakesh said...

Personally, I think it happens by the coffee-pot -

schneur said...

Take a look at eh new issue of JQR for a very intersting academic article as to why Akdomus survived in Ashkenaz.

AK said...

Hirschel - Another great post, as usual.

As someone who learnt in Litveshe Yeshivos, but comes from a Hungarian background, I definitely agree that Akdamus is not "the moment" in the Litvishe velt. Now that I send my kids to Hungarian type yeshivas, and seeing them spend weeks learning Akdamus, I have a new appreciation. It has become "the moment" for me.

I'm sorry to hear that in Chabad "the moment" is missing. Given all the posters I saw all over BP about the (newly invented) "Chiyuv" to bring Nashim V'Taf to the Aseres HaDibros, I thought that "the moment" would exist then. Maybe all the crying babies ruin the atmosphere.

45th, corner 15th said...

And tell us, Mister Chuchem AK, Dan Vaab was at home preparing di Blintshes so you could experience YOUR ultimate moment??

And perhaps share with us your 'appreciation' for Akdamus that you've discovered.

Ya', Takeh A Derhoiberner Kabulos Hatoirah!

AK said...

Dear Mr. 45th,

"And tell us, Mister Chuchem AK, Dan Vaab was at home preparing di Blintshes so you could experience YOUR ultimate moment??"
- As a matter of fact she was. And they were delicious.

And I gladly shared by Kabolas HaTorah with her 50/50 like is says in Chazal.

"And perhaps share with us your 'appreciation' for Akdamus that you've discovered."
-very simple, take a Machzor HaMeforash, like I did, and learn the teitch.

Leroy said...

The Rebbe Shlita makes clear that the moment is reading the tikkun and at the Haftorah first day.
If its shvach then by u, what can I say if people are talking then....

45th said...

"take a Machzor HaMeforash, like I did, and learn the teitch"

I didn't ask how...tell us how your appreciation was enhanced. What facet of the Akdamus has penetrated your inner being that has changed the way you perceive SHavuos?

Skeptic said...

The Aruch HaShulchan also makes no mention of the custom to read Megillas Rus on Shavuous.

Leroy said...

"I'm sorry to hear that in Chabad "the moment" is missing."

tis the gavra not the chetzva...

I saws Moshe going up ..whole 9 yds. ;)

Isaac Balbin said...

It's not that clear cut to say "Chabad" doesn't say Akdamus. Is it Chabad? Lubavitch? Kapust?

Apparently the last Rebbe's father said it, and so the Rebbe said it quietly bein gavro le gavro. Someone showed me this in the footnote of a Sicha.

Why hasn't it been excised from the siddur?

Clearly, Geza used to say it. When did the hanhogo split and why? Did Reb Shmaryahu Noach say it?

What did the Baal HaTanya do? One presumes he didn't say it, but left it in the Siddur.

What about Reb Menachem Mendel Horadoker or the Magid himself?

Over the last few years, I (as a plain Nusach Sfard Cohen with a reasonable voice and my own teeth) have said it in Rabbi Groner's Shule in Chabad in Melbourne. It was always said there in deference to many baalei batim who said it. It would seem that some of the elterer chassidim even said it in Russia.

Ah, the good old days, when there used to be a respectful pregnant pause to allow some to say Veshomru, although the holier than thou or ignorant types have seemingly abandoned this (rather nice in my view) hanhogo.

מענדל said...

טאמער ס'פעלט דיר א דערהער אין שבועות דארפסטו לערנען א מאמר אדעתא דנפשי' און דערנאך דאווענען באריכות. אדער העלף אויס א שליח צו מאכן א מסיבה וכדו' וואו מען ליינט עשרת הדברות און צום אנכי וועט דיר אנכאפן א ציטער.

seen it all said...

The Rebbe wrote (I don't recall where but I saw it many moons ago) that he doesn't know the reason we don't say akdomus but azoi iz gebliben the minhag. Many people have tried to give reasons for it, no time due to long maamor (Rebbe Rashab era), we don't say anything extra, wasn't printed in old siddurim, but the Rebbe was doicheh all these and said he doesn't know the reason. I saw the Rebbe saying it during kriah (flipping the pages back and forth bain gavrah l'gavrah).

Ma-inyan l'inyan:
The yehi rotzon before kiddush hachodesh is not printed in the Chabad siddur. The reason is bakoshas tzerochov b'Shabbos. The Rebbe's mother had it taped into her siddur. His father was the rov of the kehilla and they said it in his shul. Yesh Omrim (unconfirmed) that the Rebbe said it while walked back to his place after haftorah on Shabbos mevorchim.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


thanks for your wonderful thoughts.

I believe one day soon there will be Chabad minyonim where Akdomus will be said.

As far as VeShomru goes; mumbling a quick VeShomru is no better than not saying it at all, IMHO. It has to be said out loud, in unison, with the whole crowd doing quasi-Chazzonus, if you know what I mean.

Emes said...

The moment is just like the moment on Yom Kippur...its the day after..
If you did not get up early the next day to learn a mamar, your masechta, your Torah with greater did not get it the day before.

"the whole crowd doing quasi-Chazzonus, if you know what I mean"

You have that in your shul?
In my shul, they talk the whole time no matter who is the chazzan and sing-alongs never occur except Haderes VHameuni

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ר' מענדל

כ'בין נישט קיין בחור אז איך קען ערגעץ פאהרען "אררויסהעלפן א שליח," און מאמרי חסידות איז גרינג צו לערנען אבער שווער ארייננעמען אין א פנימיות

און דאס וואס איר זאגט אז פון דעם וועט מיר "אנכאפען א ציטער" וועל איך אייך זאגען אז איר מוזט זיין פון א פרעהערדיגן דור אז איר רעדט נאך אפילו אזוי
די ווערטער געפינען זיך נישט מער אין די חב"ד לעקסיקאן כלל וכלל

Anonymous said...

To learn even a Shevous sicha of the Rebbe in Toras Menachem on a Toras Habesht that you see in every Poilishe sefer repeated with no Farshtand, stimulates your Brains Guf and Neshoma. You don't have to be a oved for that

מענדל said...

זיי מחליט אדער כ'בין א בחור אדער פון א פריערדיקער דור!
איך האב ניט געמיינט זאלסט פארן ערגעץ וואו, מאך א מסיבה לעבן דיר! איך שטעל זיך פאר אז אין מאנסי איז דאס שווערער ווי אין אנדערע פלעצער און לפום צערא אגרא. בנוגע לערנען מאמרים איז אין הכי נמי, ס'קומט ניט פון לערנען איין מאמר. לערן כסדר און טראכט אביסל חסידות פארן דאוונען און מיט דער צייט וועט עס האבן א פעולה.
לחיים, לחיים ולברכה!


Anonymous said...

I don't know what your learning is like but my moment was shvuos night at about a quarter after 12 learning Hilchos Kiddush Hachodesh. During Akdamus I was falling asleep because I missed several coffee breaks during the night. THough you are right. Usually, even in my litvish shul, the moment for me is "tzvi uyikar...umsar lan oraisa." You can tell it's the Rav's moment to, and he's an alte Mirrer.

--Der Moderne Shaygetz

Chaim Berlin Success Story said...

der moderne Shaygetz

Are you gonna drop a hint who your Rav is?

Der Moderne Shaygetz said...

No, I don't think he would like it. In any event, he's really my father's rav.

jewnonymous said...

הירשל איז גערעכט!
לערנען חסידות ביז עס חאפט דיר אן א ציטער איז אדער פון אן אלטן דור אדער די יונגע בחורים
פארוואס איז דאס אזוי ווייס איך ניט אבער אזוי האב איך באמערוקט

מענדל said...

וואס זאל איך דיר זאגן, ווייזט אויס אז אין די פערציקער איז מען נאך אלץ א בחור. זעסט וואס אהלי תורה קען אויפטאן?
דער ריינער אמת איז אז צום בר מצווה האב איך שוין געהאט דורך געליינט די זכרונות און א גרויסער טייל פון דעם פריערדיקער רבי'נס שיחות, אפשר איז דאס א רשימו דערפון.
דעם שבת איז ר' גבריאל נח האלצבערג הי"ד דרייסיג'סטן יום הולדת, אפשר כדאי דערמאנען ביים קידוש און והחי יתן את לבו.

Anonymous said...

So we heard by shala sheedos the authoritative ohpinion of the true convert to Chabad da Tzig's supervisor that the moment was indeed during Matan Torah da aliyah of aseres hadribos and durch birkas Kohanim mit the weining KInderlach

Ner Yisroel said...

Hirshel Tzig

You give the implication that there is a 'moment' and different groups have different moments.

In my experience, hisorerus is subjective and, for example, on Rosh Hashono, everybody has the 'moment'
at a different time and at a different juncture in the liturgy. others get very emotional during the Yehi Ratzon at the meals. Others by Nesaneh Tokef.

One of my favorite shatzes got teary eyed toward the end of chazaras hashatz at mussof

Some by Min Hameytzur and others are just loosening their belts then.

To me, it looks like a fallacy with Hasidism that the whole group should feel the same emotions at the same time. It is reminiscent of forced and illusion (dimyon) or 'eyen gereht zich' ness.


Confused said...


I just saw Ner Izzy's last comments and it looks like someone stole his identity.

The comments are not consistent with the good ol'e Izzy that we came to love.

Hirshel, what do you say?

Anonymous said...

Check out Toras Menachem 2nd Day Shavuos 5717 Ois 12. The Nekuda is that the Geshmak and Hisppalus of Akdomus could distract from Kabbolas Hatorah itself.