?ר' איד, וואס לאכט איר אזוי? אויף וועמענ'ס חשבון
?ר' עמרם? איר זענט אויך דא
איך בין דאך דארט אויפגעוואקסן, און איך ווייס ווי איר האלט .....
? איך גלייב נישט. וואס זוכט דער בורשטינער צדיק דארט? ער פלעגט דאווענען אלץ קינד ביי אים אין שול?
.....וולפא, דאס איז דער מכה בפטיש
הרב שוויי זיצט כשושנה בין החוכים
.....דער גרויסער פאטער , היינט שעפט ער שוין נחת פונעם זונ'דל
DALOY HUNGARIANS IN LUBAVITCH!!!!
I'm not sure what brought this on now. Maybe it was the passing of Reb Moshe Morozov, who was once very actively involved in the whole process, before old age prevented him from continuing. Or maybe it was the fact that people ask me all kinds of questions and I figure that if they get their info elsewhere it might not be as good as if they get here. But I want it all here on the table, going back to ששת ימי בראשית. Why, after years of using Rav Osdoba for their agenda, they decided that he isn't good for them anymore, and especially why the Russians decided now that a young Hungarian is good for them and their agenda? I'd like your input, please. I know the answers, more or less, I just wanna hear ALL the details here. Years ago they needed Rav Marlow for their power struggle and they got him and used him, but what good is Braun for them now?
I started this thread on Thursday, when we weren't sure if there would be a Hachtoroh or not, but now that there was one last light, and they brought out anybody that RYYB had a shaychus with as a child until he joined Lubavitch, I'm even more intrigued. I look around at those in attendance and all I see is rabblerousers, troublemakers and those looking to destroy Lubavitch for personal reasons. And, of course, locals looking for a bite to eat and a way to pass the time. And some bachurim. And they too were sent to the coronation by the leadership of OT, which also is part of the troublemaking crowd, as was the MC, one of the first to make himself big by destroying what others built with their sweat and tears, and using the "Moshiach" issue to the appeal to the ass - , I mean masses. I don't usually discuss internal Lubavitch politics, but I'll do it, and may G-d forgive me, for I know not what I'm doing here.
235 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 235 of 235Tzig, the Rabbi Braun issue is directly linked to the current Va'ad haKohol issue, where Zaki Tamir is letting Sam (Mule) Chanin take over as Executive Director of the VH for 6 months. This is supposedly so that Sam can make the VH more financially sound (assuming that he is 100% kosher v'yosher in finances himself...).
Sam has a long time vendetta against Rabbi Osdoba (something having to do with his father Zalmen Chanin), & Sam paid the expenses etc. for R' Braun to move back to NY.
& yes, Zalmen Chanin is a mishichist...
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=31696
-- ZIY
any boots on the ground in CH? whats the mood in the street? it was reported here that braun is having kabolas kahal, anyone went? whats going on?
who forced zaki to shut his blog?
lets get to 200 comments!
Fed up in Peoria and others have a valid complaint about this being inside baseball, so I'll try to give a brief history of how CH got to this mess. This is the truth without my personal opinions mixed in.
Part 1.
R Shmuel Levitin was rov of CH. In 5730 R' ZS Dvorkin moved to CH from Pitts since RSL was getting on in the years and they needed a rov. He was considered the community rov and the head of VRL (vaad rabbonei lubavitch). In 5745 he passed away after a long illness. He was a pikach, but a real russian who wouldn't let anyone else in. So after him, there was not clear succession to the rabbonus. Dovid Fisher, who had RZSD ear regarding community development tried to do and end-run and appoint his own rov. On Purim Koton 5746, he tried to make a secret meeting supposedly of reps of every shtibel in CH and they are going to appoint a new rov. Someone blew his cover, and a tumult broke it.
After this, a group of people led by the sofer R' Laizer Zirkind decided that an election is the only way to do this. The Rebbe agreed, but said it can only be for toishvei hashchuna and not for VRL. In summer 5746 R Marlow, Osdoba and Heller were elected as the bais din. Immediately, they got caught up in the fisher mess of properties and they never really recovered their equilibrium. In the meantime, the HQ people got nervous since they saw a new power center developing that can hurt them so krinsky, shemtov and that crowd did everything to undermine the BD. So they had the fisher war, the war with HQ, and the usual Jewish community business to deal with and they were barely getting their feet wet. In 5751? rebbitzen Heller was niftar, and he was already fed up with the machlokes, plus he had a house of yesomim and he slowly withdrew from the rabbonus.
Hemshech yovoi!
R'ZSD woudnt let anyone else in??!! U gotta be kidding!
Anonymous said...
Pitputim is the new name for Issac Balbin?
Well yes, it's my blog name, and for the record it's no secret :-)
PS. It's Isaac not Issac and Hirshel's (and many) blogs allows identification through a blog owner and hence pitputim, but I will also sign with my name in the future.
Isaac Balbin
I second Fed Up in Peoria's request. Come on guys, be mentshn. Tell those of us many miles away what the hell is going on? Someone PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZ
I personally know Braun for many years on his way to Chabad high and I think in life sometimes you fight for something then it backfires..
Mark my words in 6 months to a year he be spit out by the yechi guys for not fighting the establishment enough and the will of the people will have served..
I can see there faces the ones who jumped for joy will fight him and they are nasty SOB's///
Braun is a talmid CHochim and has a good head ( Semicha aside ) he is strong on his shitas and will try hard to institute them usuing rabbi Osdaba and Rabbi Schwei...
I am waiting for the smile on Osdabas face when he jumps ship.
Remember Rabbi Schwei brought Segal intot he bais din for his side and he jumped to Osdabas anti Yechi side quick...
Rebainu SHlita rules!!!
"if i would have known when i was a bochur that if i joined habad i'd be able to daven at 915 officially, i may have converted."
When you were a bochur were you in the Zal at 7 AM every morning?
Shkeyach, reb ad mosai.
Need stats on Fisher,Heller,Marlow,Osdoba.
Details and context needed for this historic post, 205 comments and counting.
Peoria 566 miles from Pittsburgh.
What does this have to do with Belz?
Rabbi Schwei's brother was Mulle Chanin's uncle. Do you think that anything to do with it?
Anonymous said...
R'ZSD woudnt let anyone else in??!! U gotta be kidding!"
then u explain why he was over 80, yene machla, and didn't groom someone. BTW, he couldn't stand osdoba.
Part 2.
When the BD was established in 5746 the Rebbe spoke about them and their power etc. From the sichos of that time, it seems that the Rebbe had high hopes for them that they will make a seder in CH. IMHO it seems like he was very disappointed after 1-2 years and basically ignored them after that.
In 5751 HQ made their move. They made a new group called Vaad Rabbonei Hakloli (VRH). Their taa'noh was that this was a successor to VRL & the BD of CH was unrelated. Jimmy Gurary was running it. He wound up turning against them in 5754 when the fight over the wills broke out, but that's a separate parsha. This laid the groundwork for the post-stroke mess. In adar 5752 the Rebbe had a stroke. HQ crowd led by krinsky wanted to squash the messianic fervor, but couldn't stop the masses who used the CH BD for their position. This led to the signs in the shul, etc. When in tishrei 5753 the Rebbe began appearing on the porch and didn't stop the yechi singing, HQ lost control of the shul totally and never got it back. After 3 tammuz, HQ made a major strategic error of abandoning the shul, and every year since the nutjobs come up with a new mishugas. So we had the CH BD (RYKM & RAO) aligned with yechi, and the VRH with most of the shluchim and normal crowd.
In 5760? RYKM passed away. Now there's only RAO active on the BD. He was never a real meshichist, but he knew which side buttered his bread. So he reluctantly played along with them for a while He put his kids in the kashrus side and it became a private business. People wanted new rabbonim added, considering the community size and one rov can't do it all (this week's parsha). RAO refused to do anything. Finally they forced him to hold an election. There was one name on the ballot (communist russia?) and it was shvei. the rule was he needed 50% votes yeah and he's in. The messianics made a major push and he won the vote. Now they had their puppet inside. Osdoba countered by demanding a full BD. So they added zirkind, seigal, and raitport. shvei's camp claimed they aren't really in, it's a setup etc. So we have this big stalemate over everything.
[personal opinion: zirkind and seigal should be the rabbonim of CH, they got the learning, 5th cheilek, and they're not hung up on themselves)
R MM Glukowsky from rechovot worked tirelessly to bring this to a din Torah. After much back and forth they put rosenberg in as the shlish. The first psak was RAO has no right to control the kashrus with nepotism, the additional rabbonim are out, and we need a new election, first for a vaad hakohol and 2nd for a rov. Zaki Tamir wins the vaad election and now they did the rov election. HQ came up with a brilliant idea of running RMG for rov. If he gets in, he teams up with RAO and they get control of the BD and probably the shul. The yechi crowd went crazy looking for a suitable candidate. they pressured mendel lipsker from sherman oaks and he said no. They got braun who IMHO was looking for a new gig and tired of the sydney deal. This brought us to where we are now.
The biggest issue now is that according to the original psak, if RAO or RYS can't get along with the new rov, they have to quit the BD. So we'll see how this goes.
This is a very b'kitzur of how we got to this mess. I left out many protim that would explain all the players and why they support this side or the other. I'm sure alot of people have comments and corrections, and please go ahead, I'd love to see them.
Anonymous Fed up in Peoria said...
Shkeyach, reb ad mosai.
Need stats on Fisher,Heller,Marlow,Osdoba"
I'll fill u in on the fisher story since it is central to understanding the situation.
In 5725-5730 CH was in major trouble. White flight was turning the neighborhood into a black slum and the frummies were runnng to BP, flatbush, etc. The Rebbe made a major stand to keep the community going. A group of guys got together and made a company called shebro who were going to buy properties in disrepair, fix them up and rent them. It was going to be a win-win. They save the properties from becoming slums, make money on the rents, and save the community. They got yungeleit to invest their money and people gave since the Rebbe was "koching" in saving CH. They hired DF to run it. He claims that the whole thing went under and he had to take loans to save it. After a few years, he latched onto the section 8 program and got millions of low-interest loans to rehab apt buildings in CH. CH got more sec 8 loans than any other place in the USA. This started the din Torah, with the orginal investors claiming he ripped them off. RZSD was basically backing fisher, who by this time was poshut the emperor of CH. If u didn't own a house, u lived in one of his buildings.
When RZSD was niftar, DF who is no fool saw he had a problem. So he tried to set up a new BD that he can control. It backfired and they ended up in an election. This was followed by a vaad hakohol election and the winners started immediately with din Torah's and then court cases against him. The BD of CH put him in cherem, and he ended up going to EY. He lost some buildings in court, but the vaad never got much from him, and it was a total mess. He got back at the BD over the years by backing various factions that were fighting them, esp when the fight over the Rebbe's medical care started. He's also convinced that RLG was his enemy, so he used YK to try to bury RLG.
Today he lives in EY and 90% of the CH crowd either don't know who he is or don't care, even while they are living in his properties.
Hirshel, there is so much that is both wrong and offensive (if you're at the hachtoro you must either be bored/hungry or a "rabblerouser" (itself an undefined term—every activist is a "rabblerouser" to the other side)) about this post. Shame.
It's unbelievable how you can have a din torah through a zabla, a ruling, a chassidishe rov (the din torah and common sense refute all claims to the opposite (remember when they were claiming he ate on tisha b'av as well??)), an hachtoro, Rabbi Osdoba switching his opinion on a daily basis depending on who spoke with him that day, a united vaad hakohol (2/3 members of which were the "change" candidates!) and a large community turn out. And yet you, and unfortunately many like you, turn to racial (Hungarian) prejudices and character assassination. I was at the Hachtoro of the THREE rabbonim Segel, Zirkind and Raitport, and the crowd consisted of about 200 people in the zal upstairs. 150 of them were bachurim who came to watch the show, 2 of them were on the VH's paycheck and the remaining 30 were clearly "rabblerousers."
A gutten shabbos!
u explain why he was over 80, yene machla, and didn't groom someone
Mind you, the rebbe did the same
Mottel, Hirshel, etc: You guys speak as if there wasn't an election. As if there's a fringe imposing its will. Mottel, you say "last night was truly sad." Why was it sad?? There was an election for rov al pi hazablo and there was an hachtoro! People like you cause pirrud. You say they did it l'shem ahacas yisroel, but never mind that! There was a democratic election! The side that refusesthe results, that before a rov even opened his mouth had accused him of eating on tisha b'av (remember that?) and forging his smicha, people like you...claim to be acting for ahavas yisroel? Give it up! Shame on you, shame on Hirshel and shame on all of us for being merachek Moshiach and for displaying, once again, that a din torah (zabla, no less!) counts only if you win.
anyone from ch care to report, were the asrs dimar praved shabbos, got shishi etc
when r arele belzer was niftar, many chasidim didnt want todays belzer to be their rebbe, being that he was so young etc. the satmer rebbe told them that chasidim you want to be chasidim fun heint but a rebbe you want like the baal shem! go make him your rebbe
vda"l
Hirshel
Just wondering if after this latest charade you still think Lubavitch is "emes"?
Jus' askin'
Grainom : The new Rov davened downstairs in 770 and got The Aseres Hadibrois in The Rebbes Minyan.
Dovid, the due process here has not been completed. There are many questions raised about the 'pesak din' and these will have to be answered. Rabbi Rozenberg will not, at the end, be able to get away with ignoring these questions or answering them in a flippant way (as he did in his last 'pesak'). He will have to give a full 'meheichan dantuni' accounting.
The above pertains only to the election of Rabbi Braun and Rabbi Osdobo's obligation to listen to the pesak din (he did sign up for this, so its his problem). When it comes to private individuals in the community – it is really their choice whether they accept the Beis Din or not, we didn't sign anything and are not obligated by Rabbi Osdoba's obligations. Furthermore, it is entirely unclear to me how (al pi din) anyone can be forced to recognize a beis din made up of people whom they consider vile perverters of our faith (aka 'meshichisten').
No matter the final outcome of this, I, for one, will never go do a Din Torah with a meshichist Rov, I will never accept upon myself their perverted authority and everything they say is for me like nefichas hasus...
Lemaase this means that if a separate Beis Din is created, I might want to recognize its authority (depending on who is on it). If not, I can just continue ignoring these clowns, just as I and many others have done for many-many years.
btw, as someone else mentioned here, Rabbi Osdoba didn't protest Rabbi Marlow's support of the meshichisten early on. He could have joined Rabbi Heller and they could have put a stop to this disease in CH (or at least deny them 'rabbini legitimacy). He didn't, so let him 'eat' the results now. Not too much sympathy here...
so that's why they hate satmar!
how do you define "emes"
media blackout regarding braun? whats going on?
One of the most ludicrous episodes in this whole sorry and tragic mess
is the unilateral appointment ,by one of the members of the CH
community council, of M Chanin as executive directer of the community
council.
The man doesn't live in CH, was not elected to this post, is of
questionable religious observance and is a shady wheeler dealer - and to top it off he is a meshichist ben meshichist, crazy as it sounds. The fact that he has shown some business acumen does not make him a proper
candidate for executive director. Berny Madoff was also
"talented",maybe even more so, in this respect. Lets make him ED.What a mess.Just like Israel we're our own worst enemies.
Uh,oh.....
Anon3,even Anon3 waking up???!
The mess in CH has nothing to do with Muleh......
And all to do with Chabad being leaderless.
Arthur, I think your ros' yeshiveh, from Givat Hayeshivah was on to something, years ago...
Chabad is really getting messed up.
I thought it would pass but it's getting worse.Much worse.To top it all there is a terrible brain drain in Crown Heights with the normal,best and brightest getting out of Dodge to become shluchim, go off the derech or just think that Flatbush,Monsey and if you have $$$, the Five Towns are much better places to live in.
The problem is that we still preach how choshuv CH is and the kids get resent to the nutty yeshivas here to become reinfected with garbage.Vicious cycle!
I"m probably going to move outa here soon.I don't want my kids in Chabad institutions anymore.I don't need the worry of our "wonderful" neighbors misbehavior either.
I think we need a thread of nice affordable Jewish neighborhoods to move to.I still plan on be affilated somewhat with a Chabad shul, so a normal Chabad minyan would be a plus.
Anyone up for the challenge?
Amrom is getting flack for attending!
Lol, if the Meshichist paraphernalia did not bother him, Osdobas kpeidah does??
Amrom, stop tantzing on tzvei chasunahs and tell dad to stop it too
shneur says
you guys are hopeless
By reformulating Coke's classic style for the first time in a hundred years, Coca-Cola created a firestorm so it
will likely never ever live down.
Or in addition to this, why hasn't anyone created a sugar milk spoon that would melt
within my coffee when I twirl it around?
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