Tuesday, January 31, 2012

נעאלאגישע מנהגים אין סיגעט


















נתקבל ב"אי-מייל" היום

ציטוט מתוך מבוא לספר 'קדושת יו"ט' שנדפס מחדש (מהדורת שפיץ) בה חושף שחופת מרן הדברי יואל מסאטמאר זצוק"ל התקיימה בבית אביו הקדוי"ט שלא תחת כיפת השמים אחרי שאביו היה אז חולה. כידוע שאצל בני אונגארן זה דבר שמסרו נפשם עליהם אחרי שנפרדו מהנעאלאגן בה'טיילונג' המפורסם, והם בין שאר מנהגי התחדשות ביטלו המנהג של חופה בחוץ תחת הרקיע. בקשר לזה שמעתי סיפור מאיש מהימן, שבשנות הבראשית על אדמת אמעריקא הוזמן רבינו לחתונה בווסט-סייד וכובד בסידו"ק, היה אז גשם שוטף, ור' חיימ'ל האלברשטאם מטשחויב-ניו יארק שאף הוא השתתף שם הציע שיערכו את החופה בפנים. הרבי מסאטמאר התלהב כדרכו שחלילה לעשות כדבר הזה בדבר שרבותינו מסרו נפשיהם עליו. ר' חיימ'ל, שידע אודות חופת מרן זצ"ל, הגיב בתמיהה הרי גם חופת כבודו נערכה בבית ולא בחוץ! רבינו ביטלו במחי יד כמי שאומר שאין זה אמת. בשעת הסעודה קרא הרבי מסאטמר לר' חיימ'ל ואמר לו, ס'טאקע אמת, אבער פאר די אונגארישע חסידים ברויך מען נישט אלעס דערציילן.....

........על כל פנים כנראה שהאחים שפיץ אינם יודעים מזה הסוד שלאונגארישע חסידים דערציילט מען נישט אלעס

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2012/02/super-sunday-creates-turnovers-for.html

Tchenger Dayen said...

I don't believe this story (re Reb Chaim).

The Satmer Ruv was an ISH EMESS, and would not have spoken thus.

Anonymous said...

אין למידין מן מעשיות שני אחים

Anonymous said...

Tzig: "נתקבל ב"איעמייל" היום
ציטוט מתוך מבוא לספר 'קדושת יו"ט' שנדפס מחדש מהדורת שפיץ"

שפיץ'ס are big time zalonim, and your email was send as bait from the aronim! and you שה תמימה bit the bait! and fell into the trap of aronim-zalonim ha ha ..

Anonymous said...

Hirshel Tzig: "ציטוט מתוך מבוא לספר 'קדושת יו"ט' שנדפס מחדש"

The first print of the sefer קדושת יו"ט had a מבוא from the שתי אחים קדושים The SR and his brother, Now we have the 2 achim spitz ?

Anonymous said...

רמ"א כתב שעושים חופה תחת כיפת השמים לסימן טוב, שיהיה זרעם ככוכבי השמים לרוב

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

why is it a trap?

Anonymous said...

tzig: "why is it a trap?"

כל מחלוקת שהיא לשם שמים, סופה להתקיים. ושאינה לשם שמים, אין סופה להתקיים The two brothers naturally will make peace one day!, and their subjects (who took parts) will stay enemies rebels without a cause!

Anonymous said...

YOU BETTER STOP THIS STUPID BASHING OF A TZATIK

Anonymous said...

anon 11:56, "YOU BETTER STOP THIS STUPID BASHING OF A TZATIK'

No one is bashing no one, Tzig is stating the obvious! which is true and he is asking the natural question: ילמדנו רבינו?

Anonymous said...

Tchenger Dayen said... "I don't believe this story (re Reb Chaim)."

Dear Dayen, even reb chaim didn't ask, the qustion is still relevent and someone had to ask it no? although I'm sure it has sufficent answers ואין להרהר אחריהם

tzvi said...

Well wasn't the rayatz against limudai chol?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

thanks, Tzvi, for dragging Lubavitch into the discussion.

nonsense said...

nonsense,
the rebbes chipa was outside of the house while the kedishes yom was in bed at the door step,
there were thousands of people who witnessed the chipa ,

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I thought of that. That maybe it was possible to still be outside.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

even if the father was in bed.

tzvi said...

the point is that the Rebbe went to study chochmas chitsonios and was against it afterwards, so why cant the satmar rav be against indoor chupahs even if his was indoors.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

he could be. But this was an exception. It was really bad weather. As was his own. His father was on his death bed.

Anonymous said...

nonsense 12:17: "the rebbes chipa was outside of the house"

So now it's nonsense vs. stitz, with a הארבן ר' חיים in the mix ?! מי יפרק הויות ומי יתרץ שברים

Anonymous said...

tzvi: "so why cant the satmar rav be against indoor chupahs even if his was indoors."

Because it wasn't.

Nelogeus Who said...

Ziggy, stop complaining about dragging Lubavitch in to the discussio,n
your whole blog is testimony that the whole essence of lubavitch is to denigrate others so that lubavitch should seem less of the Nelogeus what the are

Anonymous said...

הירשל ציג said:"But this was an exception. It was really bad weather." "His father was on his death bed"

Yes, but חתן דינן was alive and well.

Anonymous said...

anon: "why cant the satmar rav be against indoor chupahs"

It's the רמ"א who is against it.

Anonymous said...

this one you batched tziggy

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it wouldn't be the first thing I "batched."

shaul said...

so why did the rebbe go to berlin if his shver was so against limudei chol?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

he was against it too...

shaul said...

nee?

Anonymous said...

I heard that a famous rebbe I want mention his name yet wasn't גימלר'ט ?! how come?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

מאך המוציא

Anonymous said...

shaul said...
nee?

מאך א מוציא

shaul said...

if he was against it then why did he go??????????

Anonymous said...

shaul said...
so why did the rebbe go to berlin if his shver was so against limudei chol?

Maybe he was for it, before he was against it?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I will try and ask.

shaul said...

all i am saying is, that there are oisnams.

Anonymous said...

shaul said...
nee?


שאול באחת ולא עלתה לו
?

Anonymous said...

Tchenger
"I don't believe this story (re Reb Chaim).

The Satmer Ruv was an ISH EMESS, and would not have spoken thus."
Did not chazal say
Ain Mealen alo Lotznuin,, or Sheloi bifnai am oretz...
The titelbaums were original galicaner...

Anonymous said...

Tzvi
"Well wasn't the rayatz against limudai chol?"
yes he was, but he realized that his SIL is a Kodeh Mierechem Imoi, noting will ruin him as we all saw the outcome

Anonymous said...

Tzvi
"the point is that the Rebbe went to study chochmas chitsonios and was against it afterwards, so why cant the satmar rav be against indoor chupahs even if his was indoors."
In Chabad there is a concept of a Rebish kind, Vein bodkim min Hamizbeach umaleh, but in Satmar where Nishtakcho is the dogma.... Yelamdienie rebinie whats good for the goose is good for the gander..

Anonymous said...

Shaul
He knew for a fact that his son in law, will be able to fight the future generation yiddishkiet problems better if he will be a college graduate..

Anonymous said...

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Anonymous said...

it seems that Reb Lipele was much less Kodesh then his son reb Yoelishel.
Reb Lipe is only the Rebinie Mechaber even on his deathbed, but Reb Yoelish is the Rebinie Hakodesh , as 15 year old lad
I know its a fact, but how did the Spitz guys know it too...
Did the rebetzin tell them something????

Anonymous said...

shaul said...
if he was against it then why did he go??????????

שאול באחת ולא עלתה לו?

Anonymous said...

Azkir al hatziyon.

Anonymous said...

shaul said... "all i am saying is, that there are oisnams."

"יהי רצון" שחיבר רבי יהושע הורוויץ מדז'יקוב, כששרף ספרי חיצונים וספרי משכילים אשר "אסף מאת הבחורים בזמן ביעור חמץ", בערב פסח תרס"ט ע 1909, ואמר: "חפצי שיבוא בדפוס". וזה לשונו:

יהי רצון מלפניך ה' אלוקי ואלוקי אבותי, כשם שאנכי באתי לבער את ספרי החיצונים והמשכילים אלה, כן יסור את הצפוני מזרע ישראל, וביותר מן הבחורי חמד אשר ההשכלה מצאה קן בלבם ובמוחם והיצר מבלבל מחשבותם. בעל הרחמים ירחם עליהם ונטע בקרבם אמונת הבורא ואמונת הצדיקים כדכתיב, ויאמינו בה' ובמשה עבדו ועתה בזמן ביעור חמץ אשר היא עת מוכשר על זה לגרש ולבער את השאור שבעיסה הטמון בקרבנו, יעלה תפילה זו לרצון לפני אדון כל, אמן כן יהוא רצון.

עטרת ישועה על חמישה חומשי תורה ח"ב, קראקא, תרפ"ה

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Azkir al hatziyon.

You can fax it in to, have a valid CC ready.

zev said...

"In Chabad there is a concept of a Rebish kind, Vein bodkim min Hamizbeach umaleh, but in Satmar where Nishtakcho is the dogma.... Yelamdienie rebinie whats good for the goose is good for the gander"


so was barry not rebbish?

Anonymous said...

zev said...
"In Chabad there is a concept of a Rebish kind----

this logic and a quarter will get you a cup of water..

Anonymous said...

Zev
no, he was not a schneerson, almost like Rozele...

Anonymous said...

Shaul
"if he was against it then why did he go??????????"
I heard that the Sakmer Ruv was shabos in BP, and he made the Tishen in the Aguda Shul on 14th ave.
If he was against it why did he go?????

Anonymous said...

anon 2:27, "הי רצון" שחיבר רבי יהושע הורוויץ מדז'יקוב, כששרף ספרי חיצונים וספרי משכילים"

Maybe if the rebbe would of learn by ר' יהושע'לע דז'יקובער instead of hidinsheimer things would of turn out different rebish kind? btw reb MM father wasn't a rebbe i think.

Anonymous said...

the question is why did the Spitz bros. print this episode?
its like the Blatt publishing that the Sakmer ruv remarried the second time because he felt neglected, his clothes were not clean etc...
the Zali wing went beserk, that they embarrass Dem Reben...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Maybe if the rebbe would of learn by ר' יהושע'לע דז'יקובער instead of hidinsheimer things would of turn out different rebish kind? btw reb MM father wasn't a rebbe i think."
Obviously Kamelhor did not say the yehu rotzan...

Anonymous said...

anon 3:16, "If he was against it why did he go?????"

די מאכסט זיך, אבער די ביסט א נער

Anonymous said...

anon 3:24, "Obviously Kamelhor did not say the yehu rotzan"

ר` עקיבא אומר אף הקורא
בספרים חיצונים הוא בין אותם שאין להם חלק לעולם הבא

Anonymous said...

There was gedolim who knew secular studies, but none went to a college! and none lerned by maskilim, so lubab's should better come up with a good and learned answer, they may fool themselfs and this generation of lubab's, but not the next and certainly not others.

Anonymous said...

די מאכסט זיך, אבער די ביסט א נער

from these words we can see you have no answer.

Anonymous said...

anon 3:48, "from these words we can see you have no answer."

And that you have no barins, what relation is there of studying in a secular college, and or studying in a haskala yeshivah! to renting a basement in a building that has a sign aguda! for a shabas tish!?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

was Rav Hildesheimer a "maskil" like the Belzer Rov is?

is this Menashe Fulop?

what a zechus!

Anonymous said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
was Rav Hildesheimer a "maskil" like the Belzer Rov is?

Hishel relax you know better. berele is a zelimer talmud! from bedford ave. williamsburg! Hildesheimer is an alumni with a PhD's from many german colleges!

Anonymous said...

tzig: "is this Menashe Fulop?"

NO, but i know him as a bucher and it will be a secus for you to have a grand son like him! (which still may happen, watch out)!

Anonymous said...

The satmere can't answer to the point
Please stick to the subject reb hirshel thank u
Check mate

Anonymous said...

anon 4:16, "berele is a zelimer talmud! from bedford ave. williamsburg!"

and also by his own admission a satmerer talmud from קטמון

Anonymous said...

אלעס פיין און וואויל, אבער איך מיין אז די קעפל פונעם ארטיקל איז א זילזול.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"
ר` עקיבא אומר אף הקורא
בספרים חיצונים הוא בין אותם שאין להם חלק לעולם הבא


would u put all gedolim from the rambam to Reb aron Kotler and Munkacher ruv Zy"A in this category???

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Maybe if the rebbe would of learn by ר' יהושע'לע דז'יקובער instead of hidinsheimer things would of turn out different rebish kind?"
if the Satmar rebbe would of learn a liitle Shemiras Haloshen of the Radiner and say reb Elimelechs tefila with emphasis on the words shenrah malas chaverienie.... he would not of build the biggest hate empire in the history of the Jewish exile

Anonymous said...

Anon
"berele is a zelimer talmud! from bedford ave. williamsburg!"
Hirshel,
I am no Belzer, but this cheap name calling, brings down the level of your site to Kidergarten willi talk, which is gross

Anonymous said...

anon 6:00 am, " I am no Belzer, but this cheap name calling,"

actually it's the belzer who once said "you can see in SR seforim from his derech halimid that he had no rebbes in learning, and never learned in any yeshivah's! " so, atleast he learned in zelem! which had a nice talmid torah on church ave.

ps: maybe SR learned by אחיה השילוני since he had no other rebbes! just a thought.

Anonymous said...

anon 1:00, "would u put all gedolim from the rambam to Reb aron Kotler and Munkacher ruv Zy"A in this category???"


This מאמר of ר` עקיבא is in סנהדרין דף ק' ע"ב than would you please right on the גליון הדף there לאו דוקא !

Anonymous said...

anon 12:19, "אלעס פיין און וואויל, אבער איך מיין אז די קעפל פונעם ארטיקל איז א זילזול"

IDK about that because there was נעאלאגישע מנהגים אין סיגעט
just not by these holy tzadigim who fought against them, so the קעפל is right the מבוא may be wrong

Anonymous said...

anon 1:04, "he would not of build the biggest hate empire in the history of the Jewish exile"

אברהם העברי
כל העולם כולו מעבר אחד והוא מעבר אחד

Anonymous said...

anon 1:04, "if the Satmar rebbe would of learn a liitle Shemiras Haloshen of the Radiner"

לה"ר is a very big sin but חניפה is even a bigger one! many more people are נכשול in it! maybe if the rediner would of right a sefer on it! the aguda headed by I.M. Levine (the king of pandering..) the aguda wouldn't of wind up sitting in the כנסת המינים today! -and you wouldn't call the biggest אוהב ישראל a hater!.

Meshugoyim hoiz said...

Azoy fiel narishkaiten hub ich noch nisht gezehn.
Ir zait alle krank in kopp. Men hut fardumt di yungvarg.
Guys go get a life.

Anonymous said...

א איד האט זיך אים אפגערעדט אז ער וויל נישט זאגן פרשת המן ווייל האט מורא אז ער וועט צופיל פארדינען און ער וועט פארלירן זיינע רעגירונג בענעפיטס‪.‬האט ער אים געזאגט זארג דיך נישט, קענסט עס זאגן אויף א צווייטנס נאמען

Anonymous said...

1)The Satmar Rebbe zy"a said that the segulah of Parshas HaMan is only valid until 9am. After that you have to GO TO WORK!
2) My friend says Parshas HaMan "oisenvendig"; he wants to get paid "off the books"!
3) I know someone who already said Parshas HaMan 6 times - each time under a different name...
4) Bidieved if someone forgets to say Parshas HaMan he could go to work..

5)say it walking up the stairs you may get a “raise”

6) Say it during work and you get fired

Anonymous said...

Anon
"actually it's the belzer who once said "you can see in SR seforim from his derech halimid that he had no rebbes in learning, and never learned in any yeshivah's! "
I am no Belzer, but He never said it...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"
אברהם העברי
כל העולם כולו מעבר אחד והוא מעבר אחד"
its very nice but not pertaining to our subject...the SR..

Anonymous said...

Anon
"

לה"ר" is a very big sin but חניפה is even a bigger one! many more people are נכשול"
not in my torah,obviously u have never learned chofetz chaim...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"the aguda headed by I.M. Levine (the king of pandering..) the aguda wouldn't of wind up sitting in the כנסת המינים today!"
I am no Gerer, but in order to talk to people out of the jungle, you have to call him Harav Yitzchok Mier Levin,
He was not less Chasida uPerishe,Beneshek, and Goan Betorah then the holy Baal Veyoel Moshe.
Just to clear the facts,The Agudah was started by his great FIL,who was the manhig Yisroel of polish Jewry, and he send his SIL, to be matzil klal yisroel from a spiritual holocaust.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:38, “The Agudah was started by his great FIL,who was the manhig Yisroel of polish Jewry, and he send his SIL…”

Did he send him to put his signature on the infamous מגילה עצמאות and to be seated in the כנסת המינים and to become a partner it this atrocity and abomination of a so called jewish state! Are you out of your mind!? And for the agudah to become the bridge crossing כלל ישראל to ….! If so he wasn’t a מועיל בשליחות

On the eulogy of I.M. Levine in the Kensett golda meir had it right when she said to this mans credit that: he single-handedly transformed the agudah the most outspoken party against a zionisim! (than), to a party becoming a fulsome member in the Kensett bring all agudistin with him to become zionim! - Something like this I wasn’t מדייק בלישנה .

Anonymous said...

I can not vouch that the holy Imrie Emes told him to do every move. But it is simple, the Gerer Rebbe wated that Medinas Yisroel should happen, and he wanted that the Aguda should be represented fiercely in any shape or form.
As for sitting with apikorsim in 1 house, there was a precedence by Reb Yehoushoa of Belz ruv and reb Shimon Sofer, who was a minister in the polish government.
that Parliment cosisted of Christans,Jewish Communists, Jewish Zinost etc...
All Gedolie Yisroel did not have that hangover that was created in Willi that Eretz Yisroel can not exist even in a Medina al pi torah.
So Reb Itch knew well hilochos avoda zora as the Godal of 1
11211

Anonymous said...

"On the eulogy of I.M. Levine in the Kensett golda meir had it right when she said to this mans credit that: he single-handedly transformed the agudah the most outspoken party against a zionisim! (than), to a party becoming a fulsome member in the Kensett bring all Agudistin with him to become zionim! - Something like this I wasn’t מדייק בלישנה ."
what you u say if some historian would write that the Satmar Ruv delivered that Hungarian jews to behave and go willingly on the cattle trains to Auschwitz....

Anonymous said...

anon 3:28, "So Reb Itch knew well hilochos avoda zora as the Godal of11211'

How about the gedol of russia! the מהרש"ב IDK the zip code there (look it up) he warns of transgressing on the ג' שבועות before it happened maybe if the gerrer would of listen to him, thinks would of be different!

Anonymous said...

"How about the gedol of russia! the מהרש"ב IDK the zip code there (look it up) he warns of transgressing on the ג' שבועות before it happened maybe if the gerrer would of listen to him, thinks would of be different"
I am no Lubavicher chosid, and I believe that the Imrie Emes and before that Avnie Nezer had the right to differ with the Marshab,
Obviously the Medina happened and it is the biggest powerhouse of Kedisha Vetahara since churban bies sheinie.
We in the the Goldene Amerika are very far from the Kedusha in Artzinie hakedosha Beichus uBekamos, and we have here a shmad house for Millions of Jews that are lost due to assimilation, VS.in Artzinie Hakedosha millions of Jews are still potential to return to a life of Yiddishkiet.
So who was right???

Anonymous said...

Anon
"How about the gedol of russia! the מהרש"ב IDK the zip code there (look it up) "
how about the Marshabs view that Toras Hachasidus will bring Mosshiach and its only way to emuna and avodas hashem, to say Nishtkacho by the Marshab is like kefira in emunas Hashem...
Are you living by these words too?
or you are only on board with him when you find some hate clip by a Godal,

Anonymous said...

The belzer is saving doros with his "holy television"-heedabroot. soon they will be broadcasting aron mortches farbrengens

Der Shygetz said...

TZELEM had a beis medrash on CHURCH avenue? Not even I could make up such a thing!

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz said...
TZELEM had a beis medrash on CHURCH avenue? Not even I could make up such a thing!

I heared it from a comidian on a wedding, That zelem had a yeshiva on church ave where the learn מ' ע"ז

Anonymous said...

anon 4:19, "how about the Marshabs view that Toras Hachasidus will bring Mosshiach "

דער קאפוסטער רבי א זוהן פון צ"צ אין זיין ספר מגן אבות שרייבט אויך אז דער דרך הבעש"ט איז נשתכח געווארן
תורת is not the same as דרך which can be learned in seforim

An Ailemesher said...

"There was a rebbe that was not gemahlet"

Is this a joke? Who was it?

An Ailemesher said...

"כנסת המינים"

I still can't decide who are crazier, Satmars or Lubabs.

BelzFinAMool said...

Curious about the Seifa of the Tzitut, the part about Mishpotim and Tesader and Tov Reish Samekh Daled.

Is that referring to year 1904? What dinim were there in 1904? Dinim in 1914, that I understand, but that would be Tov Reish Ayin Daled? No?

Anonymous said...

the dinim was, Histalkus of the tzadik hador

Anonymous said...

You are so crazy for printing this, Vedal

Anonymous said...

Anon vedal


Can you explain for the laymen that are excluded from "Vedal"

Anonymous said...

ימחול נא כבוד הרב, הנעאילאגן עשו צעראמאניע של נשאין בביץ ץפילה שלהם, אבל לא הציגו חופה בכלל.

Anonymous said...

anon: "אבל הנעאילאגן לא הציגו חופה בכלל"

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96 comments so far on a מעשה שלא היה ? imagin if it of happen?