Yes, I too can see that there are 4 degrees of separation between the Rav and Reb Moshe Feinstein, and I'm tickled by the fact that the organizers seated them as such, but still, it's at the same table, בבחינת שלשה שאכלו על שלחן אחד. You would think that the siyum haShas could be the same way, that we can put our differences aside for one night, and for most people it is that way. I just wish it could be that way for All of us.
43 comments:
I heard while excersizing this morning that all tickets of $36 and above automatically sign you up as a aguda member. Is this true?
The aguda really wants all bnei torah to hand back their tickets so they can have 95% Minstead of only 80 as was reprted why they wanted lau to speak and for whom.
Does anyone know more about this event or know someone that was at it that can comment ont. Anyone know if you can get a tape of it?
"You would think that the siyum haShas could be the same way, that we can put our differences "
Hey,Tzig!
The siyum is an Agudah production,and besides for Agudah being your favourite punch bag, till recently at least, since when does a Lubavitcher call a siyum of the Daf Hayomi, "OURS"??
Is this a slip of the keyboard or is there a glimmer of hope, that Lubavitchers actually *get* that Achdus does not have to mean that Lubavitch has to be berosh, with their belief that they are roshei bnei yisroel etc...
right, Yosef
only Agudah can be בראש
I believe I asked MANY times, no anonymous comments. I don't think that's too much to ask for...
Well in a related vein I can relate to the guy who while very bright, had good reason to be bitter. If I had his ammo, there are plenty people I'd like to use it on.
We have had. Past confirmation from zweibel esquire that he reads blogs. The question is whether or not he reads this one and will provide us with confirmation if we are all becoming technical aguda members by having bought tickets to the dinner, err siyum ...
As you surely know, RMF & RYBS were first cousins and had warm relations.
If its true that anyone who buys a ticket of $36.00 becames a member of the Aguda that would only be true for one year. Its smells a bit like the Mormons.
Its probably not true, cuz the MONTH would sue their pants off
"right, Yosef
only Agudah can be בראש"
Are you comparing The Aguda, which has representation from almost every group in Am Yisroel, to Lubavitch which is made up of.....only Lubavitchers???
(and I"m not even going to the notion you guys have that someone not present in this dor, has to somehow be "nosi hador")
Look, I know it's not something personal, but when you see The Aguda arranging the biggest kinnus of yireim, since....Matan Torah? maybe mitvas Hahkel, and aliyah leregel,but surely for many, many generations, your jealousy flows and eats you up.Remember, "hakinah motzi es hoodom min ho'olom.
The only people against this kinnus is the fellow from Monroe "inzer oylem hot nisht vus tzee zeechen dort and " "verr 's farshteit ,farshteit" and your neighbor up or down the road, who does not want "Tzioyoinem" speaking there, and it's totally okay if he does not come.Even Lubavitch has not had anything negative to say
Eckstein reported that the Vizhnitzer Rebbe is upset that the Agudah invited rabbonim who work for the Rabbanut to speak so he is gathering a coalition of Chassidissen to boycott the siyum.
there nothing unusual in that picture. i have already seen a bunch of pictures with R. feinstein and R. soloveichick together.
TU was always more open and left wing then the aguda being that its mandate was to educate JEWISH children. Regardless and in spite of ideology.
RMF & RYBS were first cousins
Even if it is first cousins it is removed. Rav J.B.'s father was an eidim by R' Elya Feinstein who was R' Moishe's uncle. R' Elya iz geven ainer fun der gedolei hador already in the time of R' Yitzchok Elchonon despite being several decades younger. Rav J.B.'s father had a Tzioni bent shoin in Lita where he became rosh yeshiva of the modern orthodox Tachkemoni yeshiva. (Isaac Bashevis Singer learned in Tachkemoni before going in gantzen off the derech.) According to the raid in Brisk, R' Elya had to contend with his daughter's modern orthodox & haskolishe netiyos just like R' Moishe Feinstein had with his daughter who ended up with Dokter Rabbiner Moses Tendler.
Halevye that Torah Umesorah would have followed that "mandate". Chaim Berlin hijacked TU years ago by ousting Rabbi Goldenberg and putting their stooge Shea Fishman at the helm. R' Aron Schechter & Fruchthandler (who are both in cherem from R' Moishe for what they did to Rav Carlebach and refusing to answer the personal hazmonos of the gadol hador) control all the meetings and agendas. They made sure that Fishman covered up for child molesters. When Fishman was finally exposed by the Jewish Board for Advocates for Children, he ran so fast to resign that he left burn marks on the carpet. He was replaced by another stooge for Chaim Berlin.
This is not an issue of "achdus" or getting along. Given that the siyum hashas is an Agudah event, and that Daf Yomi was launched at the first Kenessiah Gedola, as an Agudah idea, it must fit in with Agudah ideals. The current leadership may not realize, but the Agudah was founded to combat the Mizrachi and Zionism. To have as the Guest Speaker(!), a former Chief Rabbi of Israel (who even tried running for President of Israel), who does not have Agudah views makes the Siyum HaShas into a joke. It is an issue of what the Agudah is supposed to represent.
Was RJBS ever invited as a keynote speaker at an Agudah Convention? Was he ever invited?
It is not an issue of getting along, it is an issue of the Agudah losing sight of what they are supposed to be.
Tzioinim Araus said...
Eckstein reported that the Vizhnitzer Rebbe is upset that the Agudah invited rabbonim who work for the Rabbanut to speak so he is gathering a coalition of Chassidissen to boycott the siyum."
plz clue me in. vishnitz has chassidim that have been trying to become rabbanei mitam in various cities around israel. how can he boycott the siyum bec of the chief rabbi? besides that aguda sits in the knesset and his guy is health minister. at least his BIL r' aron is consistent. u can't take $$$ from the medina and then boycott the chief rabbi.
Can we all get along?
Failed Shmatta has a scan of a tzettl put up by Agudah in the Vizhnitz beis medrash offering to buy back their tickets to resell to moderner chevra.
Rodney King was grada niftar a few weeks ago, after a long criminal record in the years following his pearl of wisdom during the LA riots. Someone asked Shmatta why he wasn't doing a hespid being that Rodney King was an adam gadol in race relations. Shmatta, who has very thin skin, erased the comment and blocked the person from posting again.
true indeed between aron and zalman there was only a single degree of seperation at rabbonim conference.
"tickets of $36 and above automatically sign you up as a aguda member"
The Agudah is desperate to get their claws on as many warm bodies that they can claim. This is not just in the oyfan of Yehuda Levin's howler that Iggud Harabbonim represents over 1000 orthodox rabbis. The Agudah has become completely irrelevant and cannot even fill the hotel anymore for the fresser convention. Their core is now just a few hundred mishpochos that are mostly either out of towners "who don't get it" or Brooklyn Hungarian yeshivishe wannabes.
What really terrifies the Agudah about all this is that elected officials have started catching on and are barely goress them in many cases now.
Unfortunately they have degenerated in the last number of years from Daas Torah to daas baal habatim and most people know it.
ACK asks "Was RJBS ever invited as a keynote speaker at an Agudah Convention? Was he ever invited?"
Answer: At one point in the 1930s he was vice president of Agudah.
Though to be fair about the facts the rav did not truly embrace zionism until after the founding of the state with his famous dictum that G-d speaks through history.
Yerachmiel Lopin
"Though to be fair about the facts the rav did not truly embrace zionism until after the founding of the state with his famous dictum that G-d speaks through history."
to be fair to the Rav... he never embraced Zionism at all... plz read the book of Holtzer of all the shmussen he had after the conventions where he gave the fiery pro Zionistic speeches... he was too smart to be decisive on anything....
Brisker
"Rav J.B.'s father had a Tzioni bent shoin in Lita where he became rosh yeshiva of the modern orthodox Tachkemoni yeshiva."
Reb Moshe soloviechig ( who was a much bigger goan then his younger brother)had no bend for anything outside of GEFES, he went to Tachkimoni for a job, he had no parnossa, and obviously did not see a halachic problem with it.
Brisker
"Rav J.B.'s father had a Tzioni bent shoin in Lita"
check it out Tachkimoni was in Warsaw....
Yosef
"Are you comparing The Aguda, which has representation from almost every group in Am Yisroel, to Lubavitch which is made up of.....only Lubavitchers???"
I love your facts...do they represent all 3 Satmar Kehilas? or only the Bnie Yoel???
Yosef
"(and I"m not even going to the notion you guys have that someone not present in this dor, has to somehow be "nosi hador""
I am not here to throw bekius, but I saw in Avi Ezri Hilchoth Meyila Perek dalet halocha 7, that once a nossi doir always a nosi hadoir...
Yossef
"I know it's not something personal, but when you see The Aguda arranging the biggest kinnus of yireim, since....Matan Torah? maybe mitvas Hahkel"
Did you not read the Hapeles that Maran Hashakden had 800,000 by the Levaye?
Brisker
"(Isaac Bashevis Singer learned in Tachkemoni before going in gantzen off the derech."
I think the the Chatzrois Bies Hashem of Valozhin produce a nice size of Apikorsim.. so tell your rebbe AJ that he should get off this issue...
Yossef
"The only people against this kinnus is the fellow from Monroe"
Hizhari Begachlosoi...
correct - first cousins once removed
RYBS was on the Moetzes - before he switched to Mizrachi.
source:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/12440
page 16 - 1st column
it was called Moetzes Chachmei Hatorah - the name used by the Sephardim in Israel
hat tip to Micha from here
http://daattorah.blogspot.ca/2009/12/r-reuven-feinstein-haskoma-tropper.html?showComment=1261617334887#c408832206319534974
The Agudah was very upset when UOJ started attaching the fresser terminology to them and their convention. When they found out that he actually got the idea from R' Avrohom Yehoshua in Brisker Chumash shiur decades ago, one Agudah nutcase got very hot under the collar and insisted it's sheker that AJ ever said it. I know it's true because I heard edus from a Soloveitchik cousin who had come to Lakewood from Brisk shortly after AJ famously said on the Agudah convention: "me zitzt dort & me shtupt zich fun kol minei taanugei oylam hazeh & tzemitten me hert episs a vort"
Rav Ahron (Soloveichik) received Semicha from his cousin Rav Moshe Feinstein during the Aseres Yemay Teshuva 5703 (1942). Rav Moshe Feinstein appointed Rav Ahron to give the shiur directly under his at Mesivta Tiferes Yerushalayim. When Rav Ahron left Tiferes Yerushalayim a few years later, Rav Moshe cried and said “No one can explain a Rambam Like Rav Ahron!” That was how the great Gaon and posek Rav Moshe Feinstein described his thirty-year-old cousin.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/68959969/Rav-Ahron-Halevi-Soloveichik-Article-Revised
Before tiny recording devices, if someone said something at the convention that Moshe Sherer didn't like, he would pull the plug on the microphone. And when Montreal rosh yeshiva R' Mottel Weinberg got in a sharfa dvar musser against convention taaruvos in the halls before Sherer could pull the plug, he just made sure to never invite him again. R' Yaakov Kaminetzky did not like the way Sherer was running things. And it's not just Brisk that has zero respect for the Agudah. Same thing goes for plenty of American yeshivaleit thanks to their roshei yeshiva not being fans of the organizatzia. This is includes masmidim & kanoyim like R' Shmuel Berenbaum & the Bais Hatalmud roshei yeshiva to liberals like R' Zelig Epstein.
If I hear another word about "taareevehs" from any fake frimmeh tznuim I"m gonna brech!
Yuck to all you two faced osim maaseh Zimry.
We all know that the real problem is that the frimmeh are too busy with zechurim,especially ketanim.Meanwhile they are busy, with "shals" burkas and taliban.Fooy
Booz,booz,booz
yosef,
what are you about 14 years old?
http://ivoteisrael.com/news-articles/press-releases/39-rjc-representatives-matt-brooks-and-ari-fleischer-to-use-ivoteisrael-platform-to-address-american-citizens-in-israel
Matt Brooks & Ari Fleischer of the Republican Jewish Coalition came last week in coordination with the American Agudah to speak in heimishe batei medrash in Eretz Yisroel to sign up expat heimishe to vote in the upcoming US election.
http://ivoteisrael.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/rabbi-matt-002.jpg
Here is a picture of the Agudah's Rabbi Shmuely Machlis together with Matt Brooks, who put on a black hat for probably the first time in his life. I have another picture from a print newspaper that shows them together with Ari Fleischer. Fleischer is a former White House Press secretary who was a talmid of the Torah Umesorah day school in Westchester. The Agudah always picks the big winners to hang out with. Fleischer married Rebecca Elizabeth Davis, an employee in the Office of Management and Budget, in an interfaith ceremony. Rabbi Harold White officiated the ceremony with the participation of Rev. Michael Kelley, a Roman Catholic priest. They live in New York with their two children.
Of all the machers in the RJC, the Agudah had to bring this intermarried guy to address bnei Torah in batei medrash?
There are at least 3 frum guys on the RJC board: Phil Rosen, Bernie Marcus and co-founder George Klein (President of the Upper East Side Bais Yaakov). Ober der Agudah brengt Ari Fleischer mit zein shiksa.
Shanda
When Klal Yisroel neede Shtadlunas they used even Meshumadim... The holy Reb Itzikel Vorker and the Warsaw rabonim used a famous Meshumad in Poland... I remember in Willi when all the Satmar officials shook hands with a girl who went Otd from Bies Yakov...she was a under Secretary for Jimmy Carter. It happened on the dais on Rutledge street in front of a huge crowd...
R' Yaakov Kaminetzky, R' Avigdor Miller & Rav Schach assered coming on to intermarried political figures, even to help the Klal. The Agudah pretends these rabbonim are their Daas Torah only when convenient.
On the related topic of pro-gay politicians, Rav Shteiman, R' Gamliel Rabinovitz and other gedolim asser voting for them.
Shanda
"R' Yaakov Kaminetzky, R' Avigdor Miller & Rav Schach assered coming on to intermarried political figures, even to help the Klal"
It does not really interest me what Rav Shach had to say on askunas...that why I dont subscribe to none of his newpapers Hapeles or "Yated... ( he is starting to have a bigger empire then Murdoch..)But I believe Rav Yakov Kamenitzky was definitely on the same page as all pre war gedolim...Maybe you will find some signature that was pressed on him by some lunatic as Levin etc... But Reb Yakov was a level headed person with no Kanues in his veins...
Shanda
"On the related topic of pro-gay politicians, Rav Shteiman, R' Gamliel Rabinovitz and other gedolim asser voting for them."
who is Rabinowitz... a new godal on the block... how many hours does he learn in a day...26 24 .... 0
R' Gamliel is MAJOR gadol material in hasmodoh, bekius & tzidkus. He has managed to mostly keep out of the limelight.
I don't know why you would mach avek Rav Schach's deyah when it was a psak halacha for Americans in day to day as opposed to the more political who to vote for in an Israeli election.
If I'm not mistaken, the Agudah of yesteryear asked R' Yaakov that shayleh regarding someone who could have helped. The Agudah of yesteryear usually listened to the gedolim as opposed to the Agudah of today.
Shanda
All the gedolim in the last 40 years from the chasidic and yeshiveshe spectrum were encouraging to vote for all politicans that brought the most money to the plate... they did not check their votes on all liberal issues.. May it be the Satmarer,Tzelimer, Krasner, and all roshie yeshivahs.. you Kratst out some rav in Yerushaliem with no following nowhere .. I think I saw once a utube clip from him making a tumble sauce...Sorry to offend you, but you are missing a screw....
Post a Comment