Thursday, July 26, 2012

קצת היסטוריה...

There's a whole lot of politics going on in Bnei Brak that truthfully none of us should know about. It's as dirty as any machlokes that ever happened in our circles, and even more so. I am nauseated by it, simply put. I cannot bring myuself to read the reports, to listen to the incriminating recordings or to read the pashkevillen from either side. It's bad because that Oylam is not really used to this kind of behavior, or at least it's never happened like this before. Yes, there were small inter-Yeshiva politics like in Ponovizh or Grodno-Ashdod, but certain things were totally off limits. You didn't speak out against the Z' kan HaRosh Yeshivos, something that we see now is happening by those who oppose Reb Aron Leib's opinion regarding the newspaper. He's too liberal for them, he doesn't hate Chabad or the Chilonim so he must NOT be the leader. It used to be that pashkevillen were thrown against others like Chabad, but now they're doing it to their own Gedolim, people who even Chassidim have the greatest respect for, like Reb Aron Leib. No, I won't post them here. Basically how the "Daas Torah" sausage was made all these years is now coming to the surface with the two Yeshivishe newspapers having out for all to see.

Most of the Oylam is behind the old guard of Reb Aron Leib Shteinman and Reb Chaim Kanievski and they support the changes that took place at the Yated. But many hard liners stand firmly behind Rav Shmuel Auerbach, who they say is the TRUE mamshich of the late Ponovizher Rosh Yeshiva, deceased now 10+ years. (while Rav Elyashiv zt"l was alive and well they respected him, despite the fact that he wasn't on the same page with the PRY, and they didn't dare fight like THIS, although there were plenty of smaller fights in his lifetime, never you mind.) They started their own newspaper, named הפלס (HaPeles, the level) which is loyal to Auerbach. Please don't take this the wrong way, but Reb Shmuel needs to smile more! That פארכמארעטע פנים is too much. We Lubavitchers,as usual,like to think that degel haTorah was founded only because of Lubavitch, that everything else was OK between the two factions in the Israeli Agudah, and that the יתד נאמן was founded ONLY to attack Lubavitch, something that the Israeli המודיע would not allow to happen. Of course you'll accuse us of thinking that the world revolves around us, but there's plenty of truth to it.

מלחמת הפשקווילען

Well, here's the story as it happened, with all the somewhat juicy details. Source unknown. Take it or leave it.

לצערינו הפילוג מאגו"י וכן הקמת עיתון מתחרה להמודיע אכן קם והיה בסופו של דבר על רקע החרמת עדה קדושה. (אם כי יתכן שהיה זה הקש ששבר את גב הגמל, וקדמו לארוע מאבקי כח קודמים), ומעשה שהיה כך היה, ארגון אגודת חסידי חב"ד ביקש כהרגלו מימים ימימה לקראת ערב חג הפסח הכניס לעיתון המודיע בגליון החג מודעה בתשלום המכילה איגרת קודש מכ"ק האדמו"ר מלובביץ'. בימים ההם היה איזון מקובע בעיתון בין עורך מייצג לחסידים ועורך מייצג לליטאים, הרב שך גילה ענין רב בעיתון והיתה לו השפעה רבה בעריכה הוא נהג לבקש עדכונים שוטפים מכל פרט, לקראת ההו"ל איש אמונו העורך ישראל שפיגל עדכן את הרב שך בפרט זה בן שאר הפרטים השוטפים לאותו גליון כתגובה קיבל הוראה נחרצת למנוע את הדפסת המודעה. העורך עמית משה עקיבה דרוק שייצג את הצד החסידי בעיתון עדכן את האדמו"רים מגור ו-ויזניץ שהורו לו נחרצות להכניס את המודעה בכל מחיר שכן "צינזור מכתב תורני מגדול בישראל יש בכך משום דין  בזיון ת"ח" כדברי הרבי מוויזניץ זצ"ל.

אך הרב שך עמד על דעתו והעלה את הנושא בהתבטאויות קשות בישיבת מועצגה"ת שהתקיימה בי"ב ניסן, יום לפני ירידת העיתון לדפוס. ראש ישיבת טשעבין הג"ר ברוך שמעון שניאורסאהן זצ"ל וראש ישיבת רוזי'ן הגר"פ בערנשטיין (צ"ל רבינוביץ'?) כמו גם גאב"ד ערלוי שליט"א ניסו להתווכח עימו וזכו לקיתונות רותחין, לידיעתך לדברי מזכיר מועצגדה"ת ר' אבישי שטוקהמר, הרבי מגור זצ"ל רק זימזם רוב הישיבה וכלל לא דיבר, רק כשהרב שך סיים דבריו הציע האדמו"ר מסלונים זצ"ל להעלות את הנושא להצבעה, התוצאה היתה שהרב שך נשאר בודד בדעתו בענין זה. האי נעימות היתה גדולה, או אז הרב שך איים שאם המכתב יודפס אין לו יותר מקום במסגרת זו. אחרי שקט ומבוכה שהשתררה אמר הרבי מגור רק 6 מילים "די תורה וועט שטיין אין צייטונג" = "האגרת התורנית תודפס בעיתון". אכן המודעה הודפסה, בעזרת גולדקנופף דרוק גבר על שפיגל, הסיפור דלף והיה לשיחת היום בימי הפסח. בהמשך הרב שך הרגיש פגוע פרש מהמועצה והניע את בעל הקה"י לפתוח את יתד נאמן ומכאן הכותרת לפילוג "החרמת עדה קדושה" כי אכן זה היה הנושא שגרם לפילוג, אנשים לא טיפשים וגור לא מכרו לוקשען לאף אחד, דווקא באסיפה ההיא עיקר הזעם על כוונת ההחרמה באה מכיוונו של האדמו"ר מוויזניץ, עכ"פ בחדר נוכחו יותר מדי אנשים שסיפרו על כך. הרב אבישי שטוקהאמר מזכיר מועצת גדולי התורה עורך הפרוטוקול מהאסיפה ההיא חי וקיים עימנו, באם לדעתך התאור לא מדוייק הוא הכתובת. זו האמת ההיסטורית הידועה לבני הדור ההוא.


Yanover said...

none of these litvak rabbonim want to be bothered with "nossius", they just want to learn and not be distracted by dumb avreichim asking if they can sharpen knives erev shabbos if theyre already sharp. so who's behind all this garbage?

eli said...

This must've made your day!
Bashegetzing the Lutvacks!
The Lubab hero from Monsey,Superchabad guy

sholom said...

When your meshichist and antis came to blows andbroke a shliachs foot, did you analyze it here?
And the countless other fights?
So why do you take the liberty to discuss it here
and loads of other dirt
on anybody?
Shoulson, who is way beneath contempt, and a lot worse than Scotty,because Scotty does not lie, was at at least an equaly opportunity menivel.
I can't bear that you get away with being a sheineh yid beclompish, but in actuality, a gutter viper.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


I'm sorry, but I disagree with your hateful words.

J. said...

Wha'ts Shoulson's story?

sholom said...

Since you have talent for blogging, your blog could be about interesting things which are not very political.
Instead you revisit Snags vs Lubabs ,Snags themselves,R'Kotler, all those things which have been rehashed a million times
I"m a Lubavitcher lite, but I"m sick and tired of this bs.We need to let go of these silly fights and get along with other heimishe groups or end up like our "neighbors" in this ghetto I CAN'T WAIT to leave!
A little P.S
I"m related to Rubashkin and can tell you that those "other" and "haters" and all the other bs terms are the ones who supported, not only financially, but mostly emotinally.
We owe some hakara hatov.I may not have your size beard, may not be the biggest tzaddik,but know that achdus applies to ALL Jews, not only secular.
Be well.Sorry for being critical, but I had to get this thru

Dave said...

You sick piece of garbage you are a real lubab fun of Reb Shmuel Auerbach from a picture?! You sick ?!$&@&. Reb Shmuel is from the happiest people in the world his talmidim all love him , propel come to
Him from all over to get chizuk from him yeah true he doesn't waive his and on highways and mitzvah tanks but anyone who knows can tell you he is a very happy for machlokes with rav shteinman it is a very tiny number of people even rav Shmuel had a letter printed decrying בזיון of the rosh hayeshiva

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


as you can see I accept and welcome criticism, especially when civil. As you can alsi prob. see I do not much "snags vs. Lubabs" talk here. What happens in the comments is unfortunate, but it doesn't come from me. Even today's post was only to give it some historical context

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I wouldn't want to be Dave's wife. He must REALLY have a temper.

sholom said...

I think that you set it up.You talk about "haters", you put Lubavitchers on the defensive bringing the worst out of them.
Than we get the non Lubavitchers offended, than we get the babies from both sides into a slugfest.
You've promised us some interesting non political postings, like your trip to Europe,Antwerp etc, why don't you post that?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ok, ok.
בל"נ soon. But I often find that the oylam is asleep when I post such non-political stuff

Ende Tsadik said...

As a result of this post I have nominated Rav Steinman as my godol. A marvelous fellow and thanks for publshing this letter.

duchman said...

"I CAN'T WAIT to leave"
who is holdin u back?

Yeruchem said...

am I wrong here, or does it seem that Rav Steinman's "crime" is that he's an Ohev Yisroel?


Alter fun Kletzk said...

Does reb Shmuel that there is a full fledge newspaper in town.. for one reason, to fight Reb Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Shtienman?
Or he is in middle of a sugya... He is a big Noisan Yad Lepoishim.... and Marba sinas yisroel with a smily face or a grim face?

Dave said...

I don't have a temper I'm just so sick of Lubavitch who have a crazy way of life that was made up in America it's all שנאת עם הארץ.
The world does not revolve around Lubavitch by the rebbes levaya in a Sunday , with yidden flying in from all over ( 2 from Thailand ,2 from china , 2 from Alaska etc.) and plenty of non lubabs plus goyim
And the nytimes claims about 12,000 people were there . Huh? That's it ? Yes there is no massive Lubavitch movement . The article also claims that it is estimated he has 200,000 followers
How does two people in every country amount to that ? It's all שקר. Meanwhile Reb moshe Reb Yaakov
Reb Shlomo zalmen , rav shach etc.. All had in the hundred of thousands . THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND LUBAVITCH ! They are just human noisemakers

Dave said...

By the way I love your blog
Just this Lubavitch stuff is insane

Fallsburger said...

Tayerra Hirshella,

Why do I always get vibes that are suspicious or hostile from almost all Chabadniks just because I learned in the most yeshivishe places (but fort not Ponevizh)? Are you guys really that paranoid about the outside world?

Most people do not have a problem with Lubavitch when not in Meshichist mode. Ok, so we are suspicious that many who deny being Meshichist really are but are afraid to admit it. It can be proven after all that many shluchim behave this way because they are smart enough to know what is bad for fundraising. And ok, there was also a machlokes between the Frierdik Rebbe & R' Boruch Ber Kaminetzer, but most of the oylam - even in Lakewood - is not bakant with that story.

Where is the isolationism going to get Lubavitch? I have to say that you are a breath of fresh air for coming to terms with the fact that there is a whole wide haymishe world outside of Lubavitch.

Anon3 said...

By your standards. which is dependent on numbers,the Pope is the greatest tzaddik of all.Look at how many people he had at his "levaye".
Yep!Here we go again with the perennial numbers game.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

thank you Fallsburger for your very vareme and hartzige verter.

SDR said...

What happened w/the FR and R Boruch Ber?

Failed Shmendrik said...

Scotty absolutely lies all the time. And he blocks the people who are baalei kishron from calling him on his lies & guzmos which forces them to write about it by Yudel Shain & Feivy Mendlowitz. Scotty only allows frumma critics if they are not as smart as him so he can make chopped liver out of them in front of the readers.

tomoshaver said...

"Ok, so we are suspicious that many who deny being Meshichist really"
OK, I see you consider yourself a Ben Tora, can you tell me what is the issur of being a Meshichist? If you dont know ask Rav Wachtfogel your Rebbe

tomoshaver said...

Dave Fallsburger

You can all scream till tomorrow that Chabad has only a minyan in 770 and 10.000 yiden in yad eliyau by their own siyum harmabam, and are paranoid about the hate mongering.

Just browsing in all the kuntreisim that are mushrooming around the net in the last 2 weeks,the official ones and the non official ones.. you see that the self proclaimed leader of the yeshiva world was obsessed with annihilating every chabad jew, this old man was full of rage and hate, since 1945 the end of WW11 there was no official hate machine intended to root out some other Jews.... They admit with no shame that the purpose of the Yated was to kill Chabad... Rav Shtienman's sin is that he is no hater.... he has to proof his allegiance to this goons , by producing some chabad blood on his hands... he is being accused by talking to much about Bini Adam Lechaveiro, in the Hashkafic shita world of their former party leader its a big sin..Is this chabad paranoid... or offical facts...We just had a man that was by birth accident crowned as Rosh to the biggest misnagdic yeshiva, saying by a Rabbinical meeting that Chabad are not Jewish for him. Is this Chabad paranoid ...or official facts...

elchanan said...

Let me say this with eidelkait:You are not furthering the Lubavitch case.Fallsburger I believe, echoes the opinion of many non Lubavitchers, who have critical thinking skills, but do not "hate".We are here to discuss, not rant and I've noticed that you rant and use non sequitur arguments a lot!
Please don't do that so we can have pleasant, logical discussions

azigra said...

All those items listed agains R Aron Leib is exactly why he should be the leader.

Ever since I saw the hate filled Yurashalmi's tear down his pictures in Beis Yisroel, I knew RALS was a truly great man.

Tomashover said...

I am not out to further nobodies case..I just stated the facts that are hapening for the last 40 years.. You call it ranting diatribe.. whatever.. the facts hurt.. if you are too Eidel for the facts get out of this discussions...its not made for a nive jewish boy to dabble in this deep deep ...

Alter Mirrer said...

Tomoshaver talks about OTHERS being full of hate? That's a good one!

"the self proclaimed leader of the yeshiva world"

Maran Rav Schach ztl was handpicked by many older gedolim to lead the new generation. This is certainly more worthy than chassidishe rebbes who because of their blood line become annointed Melech when they are kids or otherwise unworthy. (Yes, I know, you will bring up the tired old canard about R' Malkiel except he can wipe the floor with most of you in learning anyway)

"was obsessed with annihilating every chabad jew"

Oh, genocide! That's a new one even for hysterical Chabadniks.

"this old man was full of rage and hate"

He did what needed to be done which was speak against the Meshichist craziness. Even the friendlies out there like Rav Ahron Soloveitchik from YU and the even more modern orthodox grandson of Rav Henkin say that Meshichistim are fort shoytim.

"since 1945 the end of WW11 there was no official hate machine intended to root out some other Jews"

Maran spoke much later against Chabad. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

"They admit with no shame that the purpose of the Yated was to kill Chabad"

Did you ever miss the boat. Outside of Philly and some other brainwashed Agudah followers, the Yated has been a laughing stock for many reasons in the yeshivishe velt since inception. And I thought Yated is Chabad's newfound best friend since they ripped up their charter to pull out every stop for Rubashkin. Not just lying if need be to exonerate him but to actually attack the gedolim who are against fundraising for him.

"Rav Shtienman's sin is that he is no hater.... he has to proof his allegiance to this goons , by producing some chabad blood on his hands... he is being accused by talking to much about Bini Adam Lechaveiro"

The fanatics hate R' Aron Leib because he is too liberal for them on a whole host of items like the army. But they hate him the most because he advocates all the loafers should leave yeshivos which will be a financial death sentence for all kinds of bogus mosdos. In your blind rage on behalf of Lubavitch you will never see the facts clearly or if you do you will not admit it.

"saying by a Rabbinical meeting that Chabad are not Jewish for him"

How do you know what was said exactly? Because of a sailaich rochil who reported something to Tzig? Maybe R' Malkiel said Chabad probably won't come anyway. And who do you invite from Chabad? The CH beis din is partially corrupt or Meshichist depending on which personality. That's why they brought 3 non-Meshichist to the Skulener Rebbe which was then mocked by Lubavitchers that they represent no one.

Non-partisan said...

You have to understand that where there is gelt at stake, it doesn't matter if you are Chassidish or Misnagdish. Shtait ki hashoichad y'avair ainai pikchim veesalaif divrai tzaddikim. Gelt is gorem the middah that is motzee es ha'adam min haoylam vos Rabbeinu Bachya teitcht is that he cannot see straight to the point like he is living in a different world.

The Yated fight has a lot more to do with money than you think. And so do the attacks on Rav ALS

I know the son of a very well known Litvisher posek. He used to talk so frum. When he went into gesheft he became so crooked and talks openly with no bushah about trying to rip people off. And when they resist him he tries to be nokaim against them.

Look at Satmar & Bobov how mishpocho fight over gelt and real estate.

A disgrace, all of them!

Brisker said...

Decades ago there was an alter Litvak that the oylam by R' Avrom Yehoshua would shmooze with. He said over one of the two myessas tzuvishin R' Boruch Ber und Rebben (#6 is geven far RMM dach zich mir). R' Boruch Ber became very upset with #6 and said over a possuk. Almost immediately afterward #6 suffered a stroke.

A talmid of R' Chaim Shmuelevitz told me the other myessa. Something #6 wrote was held by R' Boruch Ber to be apikorssus.

Shanda said...

The American Agudah was planning that outrageous event mentioned earlier with Ari Fleischer even though they knew these chevra were also planning a big event to fress in Yerushalayim on Tisha B'Av. The Tisha B'Av event was only later aborted because of the outcry from the oylam in EY.

Anonymous said...

האב אויערבאך אין לו ילדים וידוע כאדם ממורמר
שמעתי מחנניה יוסף אייזנבאך שבשנות המ' הי לו חלק גדול בעסקנות ובפרט עם היחסים עם שאר החרדים ששמואל אויערבאך שונא את חב"ד יותר משך והוא זה שדחף שך כל הזמן נגד חבד

Dave said...

Liar he is very happy ask the people around him. And the fact that he is anti all the crazies Kol hakavod

tomashover said...

Alter Mirrer
"Maran Rav Schach ztl was handpicked by many older gedolim to lead the new generation."
by whom?
by reb duvid Povarsky?
By the Grieniman family?
By Reb Mechel Fienstien?
By the Brisker family?
It all Misangdic revisionisim... there is no place where lying is so popular as by misnagdim...

Tomoshaver said...

Alte Mirrer
"Oh, genocide! That's a new one even for hysterical Chabadniks"
did he say Yienom Yien Nesech... obviously they have a din of Moridin veli Maalin.. he said in front of 1000's of innocent bnie torah

Tomoshaver said...

Alte Mirrer
"the Yated has been a laughing stock for many reasons in the yeshivishe velt since inception"
I did not talk about anglo Yated... I discussed the Isreali... it is the most important chaftze dekedusha in the Misnagdic world there... the biggest gedolim are in that fight millions is being poured on both sides... the Begatz is being used...

Tomashover said...

"Decades ago there was an alter Litvak that the oylam by R' Avrom Yehoshua would shmooze with. He said over one of the two myessas tzuvishin R' Boruch Ber und Rebben (#6 is geven far RMM dach zich mir). R' Boruch Ber became very upset with #6 and said over a possuk. Almost immediately afterward #6 suffered a stroke."
Go ask the chevra kedisha where this alte nviela was buried and go to his Kever and tell him loud and clear he was a liar....

Mike Reicher said...

(and all the self-styled experts)-

Shmuel Auerbach is trading off his family name - unfortunately in learning he was never near the major leagues, and he is not an accepted posek. So when the chance to be 'relevant' in some way arises, he grabs it. For him, that has always meant hate, usually hate for Chabad (like his mentor Shach) but not exclusively. Shmuel Auerbach is an equal-opportunity hater to anybody not exactly like him This is exactly like Shach who managed to attack every other group of frum Jews - what we are witnessing here is truly Elazar Machlokes Man Shach's legacy.
Sad but true.

chaim shmeel said...

Does anybody remember when (back in the 80's) when Rabbi Shach came to Yerusholayim to convince R' Shlomo Zalman to sign on his cherem against Chabad, and how RSZA gently pointed out to the eminent rosh-yeshiva how that would be shelo-k'din...!!!
Poor Rabbi Shach left Yerusholayim with bizyonos just like Humon...
Shmuel Auerbach doesn't have his fathers courage OR geonus, so he lives off machloikes instead. What a poor farbitterte menuvol.

Alter Mirrer said...

It's not enough for you R' Isser Zalman & the Brisker Rov picked Rav Schach? There are more. And ask R' Elya Brudny how his father would travel by train with his friends to Kletzk just to speak to Rav Schach in lernen.

Just admit it. You hate Rav Schach and will even revise history yourself to fit your hate driven agenda

Alter Mirrer said...

"Yienom Yien Nesech... obviously they have a din of Moridin veli Maalin.."

An am haaretz oichet bist du?

They can have a din tinokos shenishbu vos apikorsim nebich zeinen apikorsim to quote the Grach.

Und afilu oib nisht, shtait in Chazon Ish, hilchos shechita, siman bais, that there is no more moridin velo maalin in the absence of bas kol.

tomoshaver said...

Alte Mirer
not knowing a chazon ish does not make someone in a am oretz,
Plus there is a new movement that claims that the this pesak of the Chazon Ish is irrelevant..

Yonosson Rosenblum said...

Alter Mirrer-
So what if the Brisker rov 'picked' him for something, what does that prove? That R' Velvele supported all Rav Shach's attacks against other fine Torah Jews?! I'm sure if he would have known what sinah RS would creat in klal yisrael, the Brisker Rove would have never supported him. ANyway, R' Velvele was never accused of having any ruach hakodesh - so he made a bad mistake with Rav Shach - he's only human and made many mistakes, even though he was a very big lamdan.

Alter Mirrer said...

Nope. Lubavitch will not tolerate criticism of their Rebbe no matter what he did wrong. If anyone did criticize, you will come at them with your scorched Earth carpet bomb attacks.

פשוט'ער איד said...

to alter mirrer:
האסט נישט מורא?! הזהרו בגחלתן

Alter Mirrer said...

You admonish me? Whatever I said is very pale in comparison to the vicious personal attacks on Rav Schach ztl. Every single mon d'omar outside Lubavitch has a problem that the Meshichistim were never reigned in. Find me one daas yochid afilu that will tell me it is not a tayna.

פשוט'ער איד said...

to alter mirrer:
I was referring to your words: ".. Rebbe ... he did wrong".