Reb AvromYeshua Soloveitchik of Yeshivas Brisk in Yerushalayim reading the tnoyim at the תנאים for the grandson of the Sadigura Rebbe, שליט"א, a son of his son-in-law R' Pinchas Shapira (son of the late MK Munye Shapira of Agudath Israel.) Do the Briskers do T'noyims before a wedding, meaning by the close of the shidduch, or do they wait till the Kabbolas ponim? It would be interesting to know if he went against Brisker protocol. I would assume that the bochur learns in Brisk. Now, I may be mistaken, but as far as I know there is a Sadigerrer Yeshiva in Israel that caters to older bochurim as well. I believe it's known as ישיבת רוז'ין בני ברק. Which makes you wonder why the Rebbe's grandson would not attend. I guess inferiority complexes are common even amongst the Rebbishe, not just among Chassidim.
Here we see Reb AvromYeshua seated left, while Reb Mendel Ernster, a son-in-law of the old Vizhnitzer Rebbe, and a grandson of the Imrei Chaim of Vizhnitz, and thus a descendant of the holy Ruzhiner, זצ"ל, has his hand kissed by the Sadigerrer Rebbe after doing the honors himself previously. The Tzemach Tzaddik of Vizhnitz, רבי מנחם מענדיל, was married to מרים, a daughter of the Ruzhiner.
Left you can see Harav Chaim Feinstein, son of Reb Michel, and grandson of the Brisker Rov. Maybe the Sadigerrer has some kind of shtarke shaychus to Brisk, to all its descendants and branches. Or maybe he learned there too? We can speculate. I wonder what the Briskers think about the Sadigerrer and the whole Rizhiner family.
32 comments:
The sadigerer happens to be a talmid chochom
The Sadigerrer is Not only a big talmid chochum and lamdan but he demanded (when he was healthier) from that that can learn to strive to greater depths in understanding shas and poskim
The new book is out on the sad igora/ tzanz wars of circa 1860 , by dovid asaf.
"I guess inferiority complexes are common even amongst the Rebbishe, not just among Chassidim."
I just "love" this pearl of "wisdom"!
Interesting that "you think" there "might" be a Rizhiner yeshiva for older boys, yet you don't know, but are still saying "mevines".
Nu, nu.
For the record:The Sadigora rebbe learned in Ponovizh as did his son, rov of the Sadigora shtibel in Golders Green.I think that the mechiten Shapira also studied in Ponovizh..
Lastly, learning in a better yeshiva is not called an "inferiority" complex.Brisk gets some of the top talent of both the Litvish AND chasidishe world, and R'Avrohom Yehoushua says a phenomenal shiur.Boys go there because it's one the best yeshivas in the world.
There's a Shtar Tenoyim at a Tenoyim, NOT a Kesubah.
AFAIK the chosson studies in Slobodka Bne Brak.
BTW R' Pinchas ("Rosie")Shapira is the rov of the Sadigerer Shul in Tel Aviv and counts quite a few Lubavitchers among his congregants.
in Brisk the Brisker family had lots of respest for chasidim, since they were the real yerai shomaim in town... who cared for yiddishkiet. so obviously he was befriended with all of them, I think that Koidenev had the biggest shtibel in that town.
I saw lately printed a Hesped of the Brisker Ruv on a Chernobler (Geza)rebbe that lived and passed away in Brisk.
Today they afford to go back to their roots since they dont need the chasidim any more, the tzionim made them independent so they can blow hot air of zilzul on a weekly basis.
Since the satmer rebbe wrote that the derech of the baal shem tov was forgotten, sane people let bygone rifts stay bygone
the holy reb Avrohom Yakov of Sadigur zy"a told a chosid not to learn seforim in hashkofa that prempted the Besht, since after the Besht we have the clarified view on emuna and hashgocha proties.
I am just thinking what the Sadigurer Ziede would say to a einikel that left the chasidishe yeshivas to build his ego by the greatest egoist and Misnaged AJ...
omg! Reb Avrom Yeshua Soloveitchik of Brisk ? Brisk has an identity criss!
?מה לכהן בּבּית הקברות
I'm not sure what the fact that "The Sadigerrer is a Talmid Chochom" is supposed to tell me... Is that some underhanded swipe at all Chassidim, that only in Brisk can you become a Talmid Chochom? And does the SR himself subscribe to that idea?
Yeshivas ruzhin is boyan, last I checked.
Boyan is in Yerushalayim. Sadiger is in Bnei Beraq. Check again.
This is a stupid post. So a Chossid, a Rebbe or a Chadban, thinks his son can acquire some solid learning of a certain type in a Litvishe Yeshiva, and we need a whole identity snark crisis! Barf!
please remember to wipe the keyboard, yehupitz
Yehupitz,
Long time no see!(really, long time actually)
Welcome back.
How is the new shtelah?
Take care
Tzig, why don't you wonder why the FR's eidam and his only grandson did not learn in TT ?
I did think about it! and:
1) the eidem was not his son
2) the grandson... nu, nu. In America he didn't, but in Otwock he did.
is this grandson also such a case?
fyi tzig ,briskers always make tennaim by the vort.
thank you, Dovy
I would have loves to hear him read that tnayim, guaranteed he was done in less than 60 seconds without a single mistake.
Its well known that Brisk is packed on Shevuoas morning with half yerushalayim coming to hear how AJ famously says Akdamus. If i didnt see it i wouldn't have believed it.
he just rambles it off? no niggun or anything?
I think he does the regular akdamus nigun with a brisker twist of course.I was never there, but from what i have been told from many of the people that have gone to see the "awesome" sight is, that when its time for akdamus he stands up by his seat at the mizrach vant facing the whole packed room and says the whole thing bal peh with out stumbling a single word then sits down. big shtik.
Tzig,
1) In this case it's also only the eidam
2) the choson also studied in the Rizhiner Talmud Torah / Yeshivoh Ketanoh in Bne Brak.
Anyway I wish him lots of Masel !
He claims the sadgura r is TC even though he never says torah ., or writes torah...
Everyone says that R' AJ says Akdomus by heart. That is not true. I was there and he said it from a siddur/chumash. What is interesting on Shavuos is to hear him getting excited and hergesh'dig about the haftora, the ma'aseh merkovo. He sounds like he has seen these mal'ochim in person and he is being reminded of the experience.
Yoshe K
I think the Shapiras wouldn't take lightly the fact that you compare them to BG...
Hirshel - As far as I have seen in my limited years in E"Y, all the litvishe write tenoyim at the vort.
I think that this new "minhag" of waiting for the Kabolas Ponim is a recent American invention.
Someone correct me if I am mistaken.
American invention? I think not.
קול חוצב להבות אש הגה"צ הרב דוד סאלאווייטשיק שליט"א
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Yz-GjDlKg&feature=youtu.be
I don't know much about Sadigura. Their only chossid I have ever met was the worst rebbe I ever had in a cheder I attended that was hybrid Litvishe-Poilishe. He was a grubba am haaretz, a fanatic and a huge sourpuss about everything. He once bashmutzed to the shiur the mishpocho of a bar mitzva bochur that the party was very goyish. My father was very upset the way he spoke to little kids so he came down to be moyche to the hanhala. The ferd lied through his teeth and accused me of misunderstanding everything. I think the yeshiva knew the truth but covered it up that time. He was eventually fired and no yeshiva would give him a position in limudei koidesh after that. It didn't help that he also had geferlich bad breath. His specialty if a yingle cracked a joke was to come running up to your desk, twist your arm, pull you out and onto the floor with your arm still twisted and stomping with his feet on your still twisted arm and torso. Mamash a sicko.
I was abused by that Sadigurer ferd who was known as "pretzel breath". The worst beating I ever saw was when one bochur was twisted & stomped for sharing a joke then another bochur is like oh yeah, you want to hear something even funnier? He pulls out a whoopee cushion and maximizes the sound effect which for those of you not bakant in mili d'almah sounds like a souped up passing of gas.
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