As we all know, it's only ossur when someone else's people do it.
Mevakesh SecharA new Am Oretz on the block Boruch Haboo
Tomoshaver, you didn't understand his comment...
I don't believe any misnaged ever said the dumb ta'ana of guf noki. Did anyone ever pull down their pants (I am from England) to see? It was invented by some chabad bochur as a straw argument to poke fun at misnagdim.
tomashover,You are even getting on Hirshels nerves already.Didn't they teach how to read, wherever you are from?there is a gvul for tipshes
I am not a fan of Chabad but M'vakesh schar is right.Yankel, I went to a mesivta in the Chaim Berlin orbit in the 60s. As an aside the Rosh Yeshiva said, there are questions about Mitzvah Tanks and tefilin because of questions of being naki. He did not say ossur but it was done with the same expressions with which someone says, "I am not saying it is trayf, but I would ...."
Yankelwhat good is your "belief" if we all know otherwise??
There is no stira. Chabad being frowned upon for their hanochas tefillin binge has no shaychus to this maysah with R' Amram Blau.Litvishe snickering on Chabad stems from the Brisker Rov's zog of nisht ken mitzva tzu zuchen mitzvos and because some over-zealous tefillin-armed & ready Chabad bochurim pursue people in inappropriate ways & places.
The head of Torah Umesorah's publications division is a Gerrer chossid who dresses the part, R' Shmuel Yaakov Klein. He once said befarhesya what he thinks of Chabad. He got the point across simply by recounting a personal experience while raising his eyebrows. He said he was approached by a Lubavitcher who was very eagerly holding out a pair of tefillin who asked him if he had yet donned tefillin today.
And who says there is no problem with "guf noki"?Did you know that in Shulchan Oruch it says noshim should not wear teffilin because of "guf noki" and you should actually protest if they do (orach chayim siman lamed ches)The Pri Megodim extends this the an eved also.Is a freiyeh yid more makpid than a frum isho or eved about guf noki?Additionally, in the same place in shulchan oruch it says that someone who cannot withstand hirhurei aveiro should not wear teffilin.There is even a shitto in the Rishoinim that "guf noki" means noki from aveiros.Bekitser, the guf noki notion is a concern.I"m sure Lubavitch has halachic backup for their opinion, but, someone claiming guf noki problems is not saying any chidush
fievel how holy are you did you never have hirhuri aveira tefilin ??? are you nuki from aveiroes???? what makes you eny better aderabe the guy who is puting on teffilin in middle of the street has more hergesh elokey when hes putting it on while you are just doing it because your father did
Yankel"I don't believe any misnaged ever said the dumb ta'ana of guf noki. Did anyone ever pull down their pants (I am from England) to see?"I was brought up in Willi thats all you heard then.... its not a chabad invention..
Thurston Howell"Litvishe snickering on Chabad stems from the Brisker Rov's zog of nisht ken mitzva tzu zuchen mitzvos"This Zog is Nota Leminas its against chazal million times... so the Brisker never said it
shvartz zocken... so what did he answer the bochur? did he put them on?feivel..yes of course the Rebbe [if youre interested ] in lekutei sichos chelek vov page 271 onwards has answered many "taanos" to mivsta tefillin. guf noki is on page 273.btw according to what you wrote [aveiros/hirhurim etc...its not l'halacha or many of us wouldnt put on tefillin----so maybe thats why the bochur asked that guy? who knows.]
Pink Zocken"He got the point across simply by recounting a personal experience while raising his eyebrows. He said he was approached by a Lubavitcher who was very eagerly holding out a pair of tefillin who asked him if he had yet donned tefillin today."if he said he is a Liar...
Thurston Howellsince we discuss Guf Noki and Brisk, its importnt to mention that in brisk they dont daven with a minyan as much possible since they can not verify that all the 10 have a guf Noki, I feard they would rather daven with Chasidim who went to the mikva, so they are more assured that the Pi Ha... is noki...As A maven on Brisk, would you know when this minyan started in Brisk? By the Bies Halevi? Reb Chaim?
Shulchan aruch harav simin 38 sief 3 also. though you could add Simin 37 sief 3 that says about a koton knowing how to respect the tfiin. so too by "tnokei shnishbu" no?
כתב הלבוש א"ח לההמניח תפילין צריך ליזהר מהרהור תאות נשים, שזהו הגורם הגדול להסיח דעתו ושלא להיות נקי, לפיכך אם אי אפשר לו בלא הרהורים, מוטב שלא להניחם עד יפנה מחשבתו וימשוך לבו ליראת שמים, ויסיח דעתו מכל דברי הבאי המפסידים גוף ונפש, ויפנה לבו לקבל עליו עול מלכות שמים ביראה ובקדושהאולי? אם המעשה הוא אמת כמ"ש, שזה המעשה הי' הגרם בנזקי ר' עמרם ז"ל שנפל במעשה 'אשות' רות בן דוד אשתו, מדה כנגד מדה וד"ל
Rabba ShmeltzerI see that you believe in Freud that all males are animalistic pigs and every 2nd of the day they are 1 track minded, so the Journalist who was interviewing Blau, has a part of his brain occupy with machsheves Zima...plus he did not do, the full Pi Ha... wiping.. I apologize for being so graphic..
Shmeltzer"ם המעשה הוא אמת כמ"ש, שזה המעשה הי' הגרם בנזקי ר' עמרם ז"ל שנפל במעשה 'אשות' רות בן דוד אשתו, מדה כנגד מדה וד"ל"I think the Satmar Ruv was mad on the Eidah for interfering in his 2nd marriage...he did not see no problem in the Amrom/Ruthie love affair
Years ago I read in Admorie gur, written by Libel Levin ( the rebbes nephew) that the Bies Yisroel was once visited by some old Gerer chosid that was totally OTD, The Rebbe himself told to pull off his cuff and put him on the Tefilin...The Lubavichers have a emuna that every yid in the universe is a Ben Yochid by the Shechina and needs that personal attention that the Bies Yisroel gcve to a OTD anash.. Yidishkiet is not a anash enterprise...I assume that the Gerer chosid ( especial the Gerer who is the president on Torah Umesorah) would vouch that the Bies Yisroel was definitely aware that the Guf Noki and Machasheves Noshim dilemmas are clear.. obviously thru holy ruach...There were no TSA exam machines available then..
That is so funny! I bet Rabbi Klein made that statement long before he dreamed he would have a top job at Torah Umesorah. You can't make politically incorrect gaffes like that when you work for national organizations.
R' Shmuel Yaakov Klein [...] once said befarhesya what he thinks of Chabad. [...] He said he was approached by a Lubavitcher who was very eagerly holding out a pair of tefillin who asked him if he had yet donned tefillin today.Don't leave us hanging. Had he or hadn't he?
JoeIt reminds me of a reshima I read of a chosid of Belz, When Reb Aron was in Budapest he want to the Rav in late afternoon.. and the Ruv gave him the hand with towel .. and gave him a hint about Tefilin,,, he was then a Ende Tzadik... and he did not put on tefilin that day...I guess it happens in the nicest families ..
I don't know what I said in my comment that made the Lubavitcher commenters so unhappy.I explained what I believe the problem with "guf noki" , that was raised by those against mivtza teffilin was.I also said that Lubavitch probably have something to back their position up.The fact that some poster said that the the Rebbe himself addressed this problem shows that it was a concern.Without seeing it inside, he probably held that laying teffilin for a short time would not be a problem of "guf noki", since guf noki relates to the prohibition of "hafocho" (passing wind)while donned in teffilin(of course you also need guf noki literally, but min hastam everyone is guf noki???)Same thing nogea hirhur.All this does not mean that others were maskim.Additionally, I do believe the Rebbe was the first one out with mivtza teffillin,since one shita in the Rishoinim holds that if one laid teffilin once, they are not begder karkafta dlo manach teffilin and the question is why we never heard about it from other rabbonim bedoros kodmim, apparently they may have held it is a problem
"Nebich Apikoiress" sounds like a chossid shoyteh.The ikkar chiyuv is to learn, not to run around zuchin mitzvos a gantz tog for every shlemeel that didn't lay tefillin. Dos maint der Rov and it's brought down he said it in the big 3 volume biography in lashon koidesh that was published 20 years ago.
A few decades ago there was someone in a big yeshiva who was obviously OCD. Every time he went to bais hakisay he would follow up with a shower otherwise he was afraid to daven or make berochos.
Big DoctorEver read the biography on the Satmar Rebbe and his teenage years ?And this is in official, authorized version.They describe someone clinically OCD, with regards to his guf noki fears.If I can find the page I am looking for I can try to link it.Maybe Hirshel can use it l'kovod his Chov Vov Av hillulah shtikel :)
Fievelthe irst one to come up with Mivtza tefilin was Moshe Rabenie the 2nd one was the Semag as he writs that in his era people were not putting on tefilin and he traveled around to do Mivtza Tefilin... and the Rebbe from 770 went in his footsteps..
BriskerIs learning torah to a Jew part of limud hatorah? or only when you personaly shtirg away? In my traditional torah, (In the Sifri) Veshinantom Levonecho means ali hatalmidim... that Chezkiya hamelech learned torah to the whole jewish nation, (which included alot of Idol worshipers)and it is all part of the Mitzva Veshinantom... If you dont own a sifri then you can see it in Rashi Voeschanon.. Teaching a Jew halacha Lemasse how to put on tefilin and actualy putting it on is the highest level of Limud Torah much more then have a new Derher in Masechtes Eirechin... I really dont care what Brisker Ruv has to say on that.. it is Gufie torah and nobody needs his approval for that...Brisker ruv is good for to have a good vort for the seder to look good in the eyes of the Shver that sends his money to lakewood...
Brisker"The ikkar chiyuv is to learn, not to run around zuchin mitzvos a gantz tog "I do see that the Brisker Rov obbssive war against Hiechel Shloma was considered by him a bigger Mitzva then Learning .. he spended on that lost war(even the charadie possek hadoir fieft on him) months and months.. who told him that this Mitzva is more important then give a new Derher in Masechtes Eiruchin??? Did someone force Hiechel Shloma on him or his kids to go there, was it built in front of his nose or he searched for it?Putting on Tefilin on a Jew in a Jerusaliem train station is closer to limud hatorah then his war....
Brisker"The ikkar chiyuv is to learn, not to run around zuchin mitzvos a gantz tog "since u r a big lamdan, u definitly know the Semag where he writes that he travelled around to put on Tefilin on Jews.. I guess its a Machloka between Brisk (according to shimi Meller)and the Semag...
tomoshaver: "Pi Ha... is noki..."Nebech Apikores: "the full Pi Ha... wiping.."typical despicable male chauvinist פי האתון pig.
Schmeltzer BachiAs a stem from Paksh,You r probably familiar with the Hungarian Orthodox/Neolog wars that the early Neolog were laughing off many halochas of the shulchan orech as Hilchas Bies Hakisa.. I guess u are a little fargoisht too if you see this as amusing..
People in the days of the Semag were people you could trust to be mashgiach in your kitchen.... the people today who we put tfilin on you cant trust in your kitchen.
Brisker"The ikkar chiyuv is to learn, not to run around zuchin mitzvos a gantz tog "Chazal in Makkos 10 say that Moshe Rebinie knew that the Urie Miklat will not be utilized since u need all six towns runing, but still he did the mitzva of establishment the first 3 towns, as he said Hoil Ubo Mitzva Leyodoi Akimanoi...He could of sit and learn rather, which was a full scale valid Mitzva, but he liked a New Mitzva. The Rambam in Perush Hamishne on Ovas 4-1 writes that we learn from Moshe who was the Masig Hoemes,Sholem Shebeshliemim was searching out to add even a half a Mitzva ... Then for sure that those who their Nefesh are Tainted badly.... (that they have to look for Mitzvas... As I said before I am a little skeptic if the Brisker said it, or maybe its taken out of context, but to use it as a blank anti Mitzvas statement is Notah Leminas
Meller is not respected in Brisk. If anything he is just a Chevroner mit groiseh tchup & shmeckdick cologne who is a laughing stock except by a few Americans by R' Dovid who were very shvach in learning and his seforim are an easy leining for them. R' Dovid alein was very upset & wanted to take back his haskomoh. He says Meller misled him what would be in the sefer.Very funny how you clueless chevra see an amateur likut and think muz zein authoritative. It probably sums up your rendering of Rishonim that you shtell tzu
The Nebichdik apikoyris thinks it's funny that anyone would want to impress his shver with a vort from the Brisker Rov. What's the mainstay in deiner kreizen? Besides the cartoons in Tzivos Hashem magazine & the sichos, is there any sefer considered prized?
כתב המאירי ברכות י"ד, שתפיליו צריכה גוף נקי מעבירות ומהרהורים ואיו ראוי להניחם אלא לאחר התשובהכתב הכלבו סימן כא, בשם מהר"ם מרוטנבורג -נשים פטורות מתפילין מפני שתפילין צריכה גוף נקי- : ואם רצו להניח אין שומעין להן מפני שאינן יודעות לשמור עצמן בנקיות וכ"כ זה הטעם לקטנים שפטורין, ובוודאי לאנשים מן השוק שמלכלכין בכל מיני זוהמה אסור להניחם עד שרחצו ויטהרו
"a little skeptic if the Brisker said it, or maybe its taken out of context, but to use it as a blank anti Mitzvas statement is Notah Leminas"Take it up with R' Chaim Volozhiner as you would also have to call vos er shreibt in Nefesh Hachaim "notah Leminus" chalilah. And of all the gedolei oylam who learned by the Gr"a, he is the biggest.
"except by a few Americans by R' Dovid who were very shvach in learning and his seforim are an easy leining for them"What you should have said is that handful by R' Dovid have a hard time making a leining in anything but chotch Meller's Shai they can barely read through so they tummel about the sefer like it is Chiddushei HaGrach. I never saw Meller but I heard the Briskers making light that he also wears a very colorfully loud necktie.
Thurston, let this be your lesson not to quote things in public that cannot be understood by that public. They will ridicule it and 'prove' it wrong from misquotes about the Semag (who worked on tzitzis, not tefillin) when they do not understand the depth of the argument.Uncle Shimmy, what is the name of the RY who said this?
Now that we have established the Smag was handling tzitzis, is that were Torah Or goes off on a "football player" tangent with wearing 100s of pairs? Brisk doesn't go for that either. And neither did Rav Hutner who said Torah Or is the only yeshiva that turns FFBs into BTs.
"wears a very colorfully loud necktie"Which Brisk mistam also holds to be a tachshit.
When Nebich apikores actually sees the Smag inevainik, we should expect him to start walking around like a Rav Scheinberg wannabe. Put your money where your kanfos are.
Let's just hope that the Chabadsker tefillin brigade doesn't start integrating a literal translation of R' Leibel Eiger's "far a mitzvah me shpringt".
There already is a Torah Or - Lubavitch nexus. A lot of gedolim were against Pinny Lipschutz's Rubashkin fundraiser assifah circuses because lemaysah he broke the law and then speakers get up to lead a rabble of Yidden to bashmutz the Federal government which gets the goyim very angry. But moderna watered down Lubavitcher Larry Gordon who owns 5 Towns Jewish Times gets a lot of ad dollars from the OU & Rubashkin's new company Tevya's Ranch so he has an agenda to attack these gedolim who are bad for his business. So Larry hired Rav Scheinberg's biggest talmid, Aryeh Zev Ginsberg, to write front page attacks against these Gedolim. The biggest talmidei chochomim in 5 Towns were refusing to come to the local assifah. Ginsberg first tried all kinds of pressure & arm twisting behind the scenes. But some rabbonim wouldn't cave in to him so he bashmutzed them in the newspaper. When someone was moyche for kavod Hatorah in a letter to the editor, Ginsberg was given ample space to attack the letter writer too.
Oy if Fetter Elya was still around to see what Pinny is doing. It's good for his business too to be Rubashkin's new found best friend after Lubavitch threatened to boycott a lot of out of town stores that sold the Yated. No more boycott
AZ Ginzberg panicked after the New York Magazine article reporting that his rebbe issued a psak to protect Kolko & Margulies that doesn't make sense al pi Hatorah. His mispalelim were very angry and he was afraid they would leave his shul in Cedarhurst. Talk about "bad for business"! So he issued a letter denying his rebbe said such a thing despite numerous edim who said they heard it in person. 4 to 5 months ago, a letter that his rebbe wrote in 2006 confirming he is covering up for Kolko was leaked to the public, putting to rest any credibility of Ginzberg's denial of the cover up.
And one of Reb Amram's daughters is married to Rav Yekusiel Farkash, the Chabad posek in Y-m (whose father AH was just niftr). Rav Farkash has both a son (IIRC one of the 2 Farkashes in Argentina) and at least one grandson who are named for Reb Amram.
To Kosher:From what I've seen the Far Rockaway / 5 Towns Rubashkin fundraiser was very successful with standing room only and zeyer sheyna assemblage of Rabbonim.Your words have zero basis.
HistorionI think Reb Yekusiel is married to a granddaughter of Reb Amrom, but I could be wrong.
"Take it up with R' Chaim Volozhiner as you would also have to call vos er shreibt in Nefesh Hachaim "notah Leminus" chalilah. And of all the gedolei oylam who learned by the Gr"a, he is the biggest"I know that I have no relationship to real torah, since I did not learn in the established Yeshivahs, no matter how much torah a person knows and learns, it doesnt matter since it did not pass the fardrekkte yeshiva world, BH, not me, not my father and not muy grandfather never learned in your yeshivahs and they all know well all of seder Moaid with the whole Shulchan Orech chaim with every mogen avroham and Taz (With no aid of the Mishne Berurah) and all the yeshiveshe masechtas and all Rishonim and the Pnie Yeshoya( I think he is not really accepted if he would die in our age the Roshie Yeshivas would not recommend to go to his Levieye, he would be on the list of Reb Moshele of Visnitz who lived in Benai Berak learned day and night gave shiurim on shas paskened Shailos but he was not the fardrekkte ben torah) Ketzois and Avnie Miluim , they don"t need the approval Of Shimi Meller and his Rebbe Reb Duvid, they dont need approval by the great AJ or the 2 geonie hador Liezer Yudel of Mir or Malkiel of Lakewood..But let me tell you ben torah,I dont know what you are saying about the nefesh hachaim, but I saw that in his sefer on Ovas, Ruach Chaim he writes on the Vehavie Rotz Lidvar Mishna,he writes that even the Ritza (running/searching out)for a mitzva is a Mitzva for itself... Is their still aplace for that statement that some idiot is pasting on the back of the brisker Ruv
Reb Hirsch, there was in fact a big tumult about the 5 Towns Rubashkin fundraiser. It is very easy to get many times over standing room even with partial support. The 5 Towns is so huge that there is not much more room for frum population growth unless they spill over to adjacent towns. Not only was the yeshivishe tumult noted in Gordon's paper but there was also a lot of opposition from the modern orthodox who were angry for various reasons. That the OU had the modern orthodox rabbis appeal to the modern crowd did not convince all of them.Kosher Nostra is correct when he said the biggest talmidei chochomim in 5 Towns were the ones opposing the fundraiser. When the letter to the editor noted it, it was a big shtoch on Rabbi Ginzburg which probably made his lashing out even more furious. Among the biggest in the 5 Towns not in support was R' Elya Rominek, a world class adam gadol who is a musmach of the Pruzhiner Iluy who was in turn talmid muvhok of R' Chaim Brisker. You can add to this list R' Moishe Brown and others who know Shas & poskim like the back of their hands.Rav Rominek also has serious issues with the kashrus of Rubashkin as he is aware of all the facts that were covered up from the public.
R' Amram Blau grada has a modern orthodox granddaughter in the 5 Towns.
When Neturei Karta met with Ahmadinjad it was a packed room. Almost all ten of Neturei Karta's rabbonim were there. Smashing success! No one has any basis to discredit the assifah!
Hirshel, afraid of open & honest discussion of facts? You know that Yudel Shain railed against Rubashkin's kashrus for years and he was not a lone voice in the wilderness. Ask the adam gadol Rav Rominek about OU shechitos bichlal. And there is the letter leaked to the public that KAJ sent to Sholom Rubashkin's father that the real reason KAJ hashgocho was removed was due to kashrus problems.
and this has to do with Reb Amrom Blau, HOW??
Because one thing led to another & the Rubashkin fundraiser came up. You've never seen a blatt Gemara go off m'inyan l'inyan?It's not fair that Reb Hirsh gets to seemingly shlog up any issue with the event when there is factual reporting that shows Reb Hirsh's supposed pircha is no pircha.
I've said it before: I don't like for this to become a forum for personal attacks
This is not about someone drawing up a hit list of everyone they don't like in an organization which has been attempted here. This is about gedolim having a problem with these assifos the way they are conducted and coming under attack from the interests whose money & brand of politics is at stake. Onn shuldiks that not being politically correct is such an avlah. This is not limited to Rubashkin. The gedolim are also upset the way the Martin Grossman affair was handled. The gedolim cite Rishonim & Achronim to make their case.
Facts"And there is the letter leaked to the public that KAJ sent to Sholom Rubashkin's father that the real reason KAJ hashgocho was removed was due to kashrus problems."can u provide us with the Leaked letter.. or its only a leak in Yudel Shains brain, I like to observe the way Yudel Shain the Doag Vachitofel of our doir, became now a Even Nogeff for the yeshivah in Lakewood.. If they say right he says left, if they say Tuesday he says Monday as long their is Machlokes and Rechilus.. Al Deatfuch...
"I've said it before: I don't like for this to become a forum for personal attacks"Off course, if it's about Snags or people you don't like than it's something else.Than you do the loshon hora yourself.All for the rebbes "veigen"?
no, Duvywe can argue about shittos and the people who formed them, not personal and offensive attacks about private people. For that go to UOJ
There are moles inside many organizations from Agudah to OU to KAJ who are not happy with certain cover ups so they leak documentation to bloggers like Shain & Mendlowitz. Yudel was not hocking about a supposed letter. He publicized the actual letter that was leaked to him by a KAJ employee. KAJ never protested the letter is a forgery. Shtikah k'hoydoah. There is also other corroboration from many shubim who complained over the years vos gait arum in Postville. Why do you think the OU & Weissmandl forced them all to sign contracts in violation of Federal Whistleblower laws warning of severe consequences if anyone reveals any cover up to outside rabbonim? A copy of the contract was leaked by a Lubavitcher shochet to the Daas Hakohol blog.
"Ruach Chaim he writes on the Vehavie Rotz Lidvar Mishna,he writes that even the Ritza (running/searching out)for a mitzva is a Mitzva for itself..."When appropriate, avadda! Nisht ken steera.Now go wash out your foul mouth and apologize about "fardrekkta" yeshivaleit
Tzig,I remember a few cases where YOU personally wrote one sided pure loshon hora posts about private people.I did not post any loshon hora here, but found it interesting that you are showing your kosher feeselech suddenly.Btw, i'm not the duvy from lakewood poster.just a bp yukel
Missed the boat"Now go wash out your foul mouth and apologize about "fardrekkta" yeshivaleit"
Missed the boat"When appropriate, avadda! Nisht ken steera."who decides ? the Hapeles or the Yated? Malkiel Or Liezer Yudel?
HirshelDuvy chapped you by the Masseh... As they say in Hebrew Nitfas Al Cham... bizt oif Gebrotone Tzuris...
you mean gehakte Tzuris?
which is worse Gebroten or Gehakt?
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