Thursday, October 25, 2012

א "סוד" פאר גאנץ לייקוואוד






















Interesting how there are no "40-year old מילא כרסו בש"ס ופוסקים" prerequisites in the announcement. I thought they were careful about matters like that. Also, is that a put down of those who only learn גליא דתורה in the end?

  Hat tip: Chakira

43 comments:

The Bray of Fundie said...

another apocalyptic sign of the chasidification of the rest of us

http://innate-differences.blogspot.com/2011/12/on-chasidification-of-rest-of-jewry-yat.html

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they would be better off dealing with the Botei Dinim and Messira and "Heter Arkous" Problems in Lakewood

The Bray of Fundie said...

A. The ad appeals to the desire to "leverage" ones abilities to poyel ois Tikunim L'ma'alah so it's nice to see a pitch to learn Torah selflessly. Perhaps this is even תורה לשמה though I imagine the נפש החיים might beg to differ. Sub-textually this pitch carries a bit of a "work smart not hard" laziness stench.

B. While it's hard to imagine what RAK would or would not have approved of in contemporary Lakewood (as one wag put it "the spirit of RAKs BMG LIVES!....in South Fallsburg") it's a safe bet that the man who disallowed Streimlich in the BM would NOT have been maskim to this.

C. If I were a betting man I'd wager that this ad will draw more חולי נפש applicants than huge בעל כשרון applicants.

moshe moshel said...

Its an undercover Tanya shiur.

moshe moshel said...

R Aron never forbade shtreimlach in the bm. It was the "oilam". His shver wore one, after switching from a spodik.

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Grossman from the Choshen Mishpat Kollel in Lakewood and Rabbi Reuven Alt from Bais Din Bais Yosef in Brooklyn advise people to stay away from Vaad Hadayonim

Rav Batzri said...

Bray Of fundie
"another apocalyptic sign of the chasidification of the rest of us"
your ignorance is causing your head to spin,
Kabala in the Lita was always strong, the Gra in his latest years only learned Kabala,(even Nefesh Hachaim is full of Kabala) He writes in commentary to Mishli very strong words on Learning Kabala.
This Kolel is taking Lakewood back to its original roots.

The Bray of Fundie said...

Rav Batzri:

Sure, interbellum Litvisha Yeshivas were dripping with Qabalah and Mequbalim. Rav Yisroel Salanter based his movement on all the Ramkha"ls Seforim except for Mesilas Yeshorim. When Ran Nochum Troker was sick je ran to the Ribnitzer in Bayit V'Gan for a Borkha.

Any more revisionist history? Sorry I'm sticking to my guns. This isn't coming from the Litvisha tradition or even from the Sepharadic tradition. This Kolel could not have been born without the 5-6 prior decades of galloping Chasidification.

select profile said...

Compare Lakewood to Brod! Blasphemy!

Yankele said...

R Isser Zalman Weisberg, a litvak-turned- Lubavitcher recently moved to Lakewood, and has no job. His family is very close with the Kotler family. I wonder if this is one of his "tricks"... I wouldn't put it past him.

דברי נציב said...

קבלה כמו מסורה אינו לימוד בפ"ע! אם קבלה הוא אני מקבלו! מ"מ כמו ששיחת ת"ח צריכין לימוד כ"כ הדברי קבלה שלהם צריכין לימוד דהיינו להשיג מה שהבעל מקבל 'רצה' לומר אליו ולקבלו, כי אם אין דעת דקדושה הבדלה מניין? וד"ב. ולזה לאו כל מוחין סבל דא, כ"כ צריכין לידע מי הוא המשפיע ומי הוא המקבל! כי הרבה יודעין לגשם הענין כמ"ש! ואין זה ראוי לקרותו קבלה כי מלך לבש בעשרה מלבישים! ובלא הלבושים מקצץ בנטיעות הוא, ויביא לידי חורבה, ואכמ"ל

אבל ללמוד בספרי חסידות שהם מלאים עם קבלה וכל טוב השוה לכל נפש! שהם ז"ל כבר לבש המלך בלבושים הראוי לראותם להמון! וכבר התלבן והתברר הדבר לכל, כשלחן הערוך המוכן זה הדרך שיבחור לו האדם

ומ"ש סוד ד' ליראיו, דוקא! כבר אמרו שאם הדבר כבר בכתובים הם בכלל נגלת התורה ואינו בכלל סוד עוד! ומה יהיה עם "סוד ד'"? כבר יש לו סוד אחרת! שאינו מגלין אלא לצניעון! ובמופלא 'ממך' דוקא! אל תדרוש כתיב!

ועוד יש דברים בגו ואכמ"ל עוד, וד"ב תן לחכם ויחכים עוד

Rav Batzri said...

Bray of Fundie
"Sure, interbellum Litvisha Yeshivas were dripping with Qabalah and Mequbalim. Rav Yisroel Salanter based his movement on all the Ramkha"ls Seforim except for Mesilas Yeshorim. When Ran Nochum Troker was sick je ran to the Ribnitzer in Bayit V'Gan for a Borkha."
I never said its Yeshiveshe Tradition,I said its Gra tradition,
Yeshiveshe tradition is no tradition it is still in its infancy.

Snag said...

"Rav Batzri said...the Gra in his latest years only learned Kabala"

Where did you get that from? Not true.

It is reported same/similar said re him learning תורה שבכתב in עלטערע יאהרן though.

Rav Batzri said...

Divrie Netziv
"אבל ללמוד בספרי חסידות שהם מלאים עם קבלה וכל טוב השוה לכל נפש!"
what are you asking from Misnagdim? they should start learning Chasidic seforim

Rav Batzri said...

Snag
"Where did you get that from? Not true."
and if I will get you the source you will enroll in the kolel?

Anonymous said...

Telshe in Cleveland did not allow Shtreimlich in the Yeshiva

Yanover said...

is lerenen kabollah included in vfutzu maanosecho chutzo?

Yitz said...

The well known shita of Rav Yehudah Ashlag zt"l is that in these times of ikvesa demesicha the 40+ rule is waived.

fray of bundy said...

When was ribnitz in bayit vegan?

chakira said...

I spoke to the head of this Kollel. They will be learning Ramchal. I don't consider that to be so much a primary text of Kabbalah. More an introduction to Kabbalah, even in the harder texts such as Klach. They claim Rabbis Mottel Zilber and Yaakov Hillel as their "gedolim." It would be ironic to wait till 40 to learn Ramchal in any case.
This is not the same as people learning Zohar, Bahir or Kisvei Ari or other primary texts.

The Bray of Fundie said...

to fray of bundy

my bad...thanks for fact checking. i meant Sanhedria haMurchevet

The Bray of Fundie said...

Chakira-

Not so ironic as the prodigy Ramchal was 40 at 14.

שרטוט הפרצוף said...

Rav Batzri : "what are you asking from Misnagdim? they should start learning Chasidic seforim"
---------------


And what are you suggesting! to open another LA Kabalah Center style?

It used to be in Europe that ashkenzi and litvishe bucherim from yeshivas became chasidish! Now a days it's the oposite Chasidim going to litvshe yeshivas (supposedly to learn) but coming out more confused subdued and lost! than before! in every aspect of life, Chasidim atleast some of them have a kabala and mesorah a tradition of sort that they stick to! But a now-a-day-litvak! once out from yeshivah trained to rely on his daas and resoning שכליות וסברת כרסיות, בלע"ז only, or on dry teachings! he is lost and alone!

כי כשם שפרצופיהן אינם שוים כך דיעותיהם אינן שוין

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

“Rabbi Grossman from the Choshen Mishpat Kollel in Lakewood and Rabbi Reuven Alt from Bais Din Bais Yosef in Brooklyn advise people to stay away from Vaad Hadayonim”

Note sure why this here, but to set the record straight, Va’ad Hadayonim was started by an unemployed (at the time) Masgiach who needed $. Never learnt Chosen Misphat. Arrogant and corrupt to boot.

“R Isser Zalman Weisberg, a litvak-turned- Lubavitcher recently moved to Lakewood, and has no job.”

He is named after Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer. Years ago he tried to open up a Lubavitcher yeshiva in Lakewood. Which may still be on line, including pictures of the previous Rebbes stay in Lakewood.

The Bray of Fundie said...

Now a days it's the opposite Chasidim going to litvshe yeshivas (supposedly to learn) but coming out more confused subdued and lost!

*EYE ROLL*

גלגל שלג said...

The Bray of Fundie : *EYE ROLL*


Egg roll or Eye roll? maybe snow snow roll !גלגל שלג that's it.

חוזק said...

?א "סוד" אין גאנץ לייקוואוד

!אבער א סוד פאר גאנץ בראד

That the The Emperor is naked.

Rav Batzri said...

Streak Faced
"And what are you suggesting! to open another LA Kabalah Center style?"
what a strech,
from Yungeliet Bnie Torah to Madonna... you mind is screwed up the wrong way

Rav Batzri said...

Streaked Face
"It used to be in Europe that ashkenzi and litvishe bucherim from yeshivas became chasidish!"
it never happened that A litvak became a Chosid. Look what happened to Shoma Lorecncz... he learned in a semi chassidic yeshivah in Uberland, and in the Mir, he became a full fledged Misnaged, ending up as their ringleader from the gedolim to the Kenesth

Lakewood Nj said...

The Head of Vaad Hadayonim was a former Rebbe in Adelphia that was fired being that he was Rav Malkiels uncle they gave him the "Chosheve Shteller" to settle any diputes as to seating arrangements in BMG from that Shteller he self appointed himself into a Posek/Dayan however he has no Shimush or Ksav Horah in Choshen Mishpat.Those who do know Choshen Mishpat will tell you he has a very weak grasp of Choshen Mishpat and that his Bais Din simply serves as an outlet for his many relitives to do what they want and get Blanket Heter Arkous from him to do what ever they want in secular court including having fellow Frum Yidden Arrested

rebcharles said...

Its the Yiddish Police calling. They want the usage corrected.
I believe its " Ah Sod Oif Gantz Lakevood" just like Ah Sod Oif Gantz Brod.

Not Knoffler said...

"The Head of Vaad Hadayonim was a former Rebbe in Adelphia that was fired being that he was Rav Malkiels uncle they gave him the "Chosheve Shteller" to settle any diputes as to seating arrangements in BMG from that Shteller he self appointed himself into a Posek/Dayan however he has no Shimush or Ksav Horah in Choshen Mishpat.Those who do know Choshen Mishpat will tell you he has a very weak grasp of Choshen Mishpat and that his Bais Din simply serves as an outlet for his many relitives to do what they want and get Blanket Heter Arkous from him to do what ever they want in secular court including having fellow Frum Yidden Arrested "

Sounds about right. Although his retarded Heter Arkos are less from corrupt motives and more from being an ignoramus, I am unaware of any Chosen Misphat scolar who view him with anythig other than contempt. Including the biggest names in Lakewood, such as Eliyahou Levin, Dovy Kahan, Shia Krupina etc.

Anonymous said...

It is not connected to the move of Isser Zalman Weisberg to Lakewood to spread Chassidus???

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Forsheimer has been distancing himself the past few years from what ever is left of vaad Hadayonim due to the many scandels involving the Baids Din.I am not sure if Ephraim Birnbaum or Avrohom Gutman still work there. Ephraim Birnbaum was there mainly for his big size to Threaten people to do whatever the Boss Wanted

yankel said...

Not Knoffler, I am being moiche on the grouping of those three together. The third is not anywhere near the other two.
This kollel is the chassidim who live in Lakewood. Lakewood is not a homogenous town anymore and all kinds live here. Eventually there will be someone who lives here who puts up such a sign. There have not necessarily been any applicants.

היכל המשיח said...

Anonymous said...
It is not connected to the move of Isser Zalman Weisberg to Lakewood to spread Chassidus???
------------

אימתי קאתי מר לכשיפוצו מעינותיך חוצה

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Reb Isser Z Weisberg, son of RAK's "יד ימינו" ( as Reb Schneur said in public) Reb Yankel Weisberg, is tickled by the idea that this has something to do with his move to Lakewood.

לכה דודי said...


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Curious Bob said...

yankel : "This kollel is the chassidim who live in Lakewood.- who lives here who puts up such a sign. There have not necessarily been any applicants."

well yankel, The poster has an haskama from the rashi hyashivas! so it's official on less they deny it! If there is no applicants!, how do you know it is chasidim only who participate, and if so why only chasidim of lakewood of all places?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Reb Charles

it seems to be that we're BOTH wrong. It's "א סוד פאר גאנץ בראד"

Still Not Knoffler said...

" Including the biggest [Coshen Misphat] names in Lakewood, such as Eliyahou Levin, Dovy Kahan, Shia Krupina etc."

"Not Knoffler, I am being moiche on the grouping of those three together. The third is not anywhere near the other two."

I know all three, and I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Chaim W. Lakewood Nj said...

Rabbi Dovid Grossman does not Run Kollel Choshen Mishpat. Kollel Choshen Mishpat on 7th and Forest is Headed By Rav Eliyahu Levine. Rav Dovid Grossman Has a Kollel called Bais Havad Lenyanei Mishpat which is located on 5th and monmouth in the Ohr Meir Shul Which Functions as a Kollel and a Bais Din The Choshen Mishpat part under Rabbi Grossman and the Even Haezer Part Under Rabbi Chanoch Saltz However you are correct in That Both Rabbi Eliyahu Levine and Rabbi Grossman advise people very strongly not to go to Vaad Hadayonim for many reasons ranging from Bias towards Relatives, incompetance, and a Host of other problems

Anonymous said...

Ephraim Birnbaum does not work for Vaad Hadayonim any more he was a 10th Grade Rebbe for a few Month in Rav Velvel Mintz Yeahiva when that Did Not work out he Opened a Girls High School in Lakeood called Oros Bais Yackov with the Slogan "Chinuch with a Mesorah" or as others say "Chinuch with a Messira"