The Zviller also said in the same book you quote that Stalin merited to beat H in WW2 because he closed down thousands of Russian orthodox xhurches tumahs!
Yes it does-on the scale he did it. Besides the fact that Rogachover said on RAYATZ that when he sais krias shma al hamito he is mabit m'sof oilom ad soifoi.
I heard it from Rogachover's hoisbocher(Reb Rafoel Nimoitin) who heard it from Rogachover himself.
Cute. When the Rebbe says something........ He's נוגע בדבר!! וכו וכו But when some other tzadik says it (with all due respect to Reb Sholomke and all other tzadikim) then it becomes official.... Have you people ever seen the מענה from the Rebbe explaining the ענין of a Chabad Rebbe and why lying etc would be היפך הענין לגמרי?
Anonymous Shmeryl Tzeitelbeitel said... mesirus nefesh in russia makes you the gadol hador?
A נשיא means you care about every single yid. Like the first נשיא Moshe Rabbeinu. Sitting and learning in your room for 75 years is amazing and even more than amazing, but it doesnt make you a נשיא or even a מנהיג בישראל (even if you pasken dinim for a hour a day). Caring about yidden -even ones which you need מס"נ to get to- is something that a נשיא does. (Obviously you must be a תלמיד חכם and שלא כדעת הבעלי ריב the FR was a ת"ח "also" in נגלה. He just didnt feel a need to publicize it. וד"ל
Shmeryl Tzeitelbeitel, shoite ainer!!! he said that he had a gilui min hashomaim that the rayatz is the gadol hador because of his mesirus nefesh it wasnt his own hergesh you have a issue with what makes the aibishter consider someone gadol hador
Not a Harry said... Very interesting, new to the scene. Perhaps you can answer me. Who is the Nossi of our generation? תשע"ד לפ"ק
שוטה!!!!! You have any idea in these ענינם?? Learn what the Rebbe himself said. Yes, the Rebbe is still נשיא after ג' תמוז! (Like it says by shimshon - 20 years בחייו and 20 after). The ענין of a משה רבינו - a נשיא is להשפיע דעת באלוקות. (Part of that is אהבת ישראל בתחלית. Long long subject. Too long for a comment) Last time I checked since the Alter Rebbe's times that was done - through גילוי אור החסידות, by Lubavitcher Rebbeim. If you cannot understand what's the שייכות you will show you have never tasted אור החסידות כלל וכלל.
Oh, and by the way, in Moshe Rabbeinu's times, some people saw a coffin and decided they need a new Rebbe. וד"ל (It was nishtalshel from there to אלה אלהיך ישראל)
"שוטה!!!!! You have any idea in these ענינם?? Learn what the Rebbe himself said. Yes, the Rebbe is still נשיא after ג' תמוז! (Like it says by shimshon - 20 years בחייו and 20 after). The ענין of a משה רבינו - a נשיא is להשפיע דעת באלוקות. (Part of that is אהבת ישראל בתחלית. Long long subject. Too long for a comment) Last time I checked since the Alter Rebbe's times that was done - through גילוי אור החסידות, by Lubavitcher Rebbeim. If you cannot understand what's the שייכות you will show you have never tasted אור החסידות כלל וכלל."
what what what? - you cant do that. you are basicaly saying "you must either buy into my logic [sic] or else there is something inherently wrong with you. a typical meshichist argument. or lack there of. thats a big fallacy if there ever was one.
Born in 1995, heard plenty about moshiach and Nossi hador. I'd like to be a chasid of the baal hatanya or reb shmelka of nikolsberg. Any reason they can't be my nossi hador or rebbe? What's the difference, simple coherent language please.
Paylishe "No other דרכים in תורת הבעל שם טוב are legitimate?" You can not be a Chosid of the Baal Shem Tov if you never learned Tanya with the biurim of the rebbe. If after you learned the above you still choose to be affiliated with Belz or Viznitz you can be there. But there is no question that for instance being a chosid in Belz by learning Tur Bies Yossef and Belzer Torahs, you have not touched the Klamke of the Besht.
You consider the Rebbe as the exclusive Means of learning Tanya? Rather preposterous. How did people learn Tanya until The Lubavitcher Rebbe came on to the scene? We've been learning it wrong for 150 years?
Paylishe "You consider the Rebbe as the exclusive Means of learning Tanya? Rather preposterous. How did people learn Tanya until The Lubavitcher Rebbe came on to the scene" How did people learn gemora before Rashi?
Sorry for the rant, was tired last night. To address the issues: First we must realize that the ענין of נשיא הדור is not a simple ענין to be decided by anyone. We must look into what the Rebbe said and wrote. (Again to say the Rebbe was lying or exaggerating would be saying he was ח"ו a faker and not a Chabad Rebbe, because ענינים כאלה are היפך בתחלית of a Chabad Rebbe. -see the מענה I will bring in a later comment-) In very very short and without most of the details, the Rebbe explains in ואתה תצוה that the inyon of a נשיא is to be משפיע דעת באלוקות. In משה רבינו's time it was done in one way, in מרדכי's time it was done in a different way וכו. The בעש"ט started חסידות הכללי which was the דרך for that דור. The Alter Rebbe revealed חסידות חב"ד which was the next step. -With regards to the question about the other דרכים, there was a similar מצב at all times of yiddishkeit. The תנאים and אמוראים had different דרכים in עבודת ה. Even though אלו ואלו דברי אלוקים חיים, there is always one main דרך that is what all yidden are supposed to follow, in this case LEARNING חסידות חב"ד (not necessarily being a lubavitcher but learning) In our דור, it was done by the Rebbe. לא נשלם הענין more to come later......
Sorry for the rant, was tired last night. To address the issues: First we must realize that the ענין of נשיא הדור is not a simple ענין to be decided by anyone. We must look into what the Rebbe said and wrote. (Again to say the Rebbe was lying or exaggerating would be saying he was ח"ו a faker and not a Chabad Rebbe, because ענינים כאלה are היפך בתכלית of a Chabad Rebbe. - see the מענה I will bring in a later comment -) In very very short and without most of the details, the Rebbe explains in ואתה תצוה that the inyon of a נשיא is to be משפיע דעת באלקות.
In משה רבינו's time it was done in one way, in מרדכי's time it was done in a different way וכו. The בעש"ט started חסידות הכללי which was the דרך for that דור. The Alter Rebbe revealed חסידות חב"ד which was the next step. -With regards to the question about the other דרכים, there was a similar מצב at all times of yiddishkeit. The תנאים and אמוראים had different דרכים in עבודת ה. Even though אלו ואלו דברי אלוקים חיים, there is always one main דרך that is what all yidden are supposed to follow, in this case LEARNING חסידות חב"ד (not necessarily being a lubavitcher but learning) In our דור, it was done by the Rebbe. לא נשלם הענין more to come later......
I think some of these new people commenting here are insane.
you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc.
So one can only know the Besht through tanya? how do you explain that rebbe nachman who grew up in the house of the Besht said such things? (fyi he was friends with the baal hatanya).
Yanover "you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc. " Does Reb Nacman claim to be the real student of the Besht? I am not sure, he said he is much much much much bigger
Yanover "you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc. "
B.t.w. before the רמב"ם there were אמת'ער גדולי ישראל who held that G-d has some sort of גוף. If you don't believe me look in the ראב"ד על אתר. But now after the Rambam was מגלה that, you will be hard pressed to find a orthodox rabbi who won't call you a כופר if you say so. [and בית שמאי said בית הלל was straight out wrong - אלו ואלו וכו- but...] After the Baal Hatanya was מגלה to us חסידות חב"ד that is the derech for all yidden. See what is happening in the world. Thousands of people are turning to חסידות חב"ד. Zalmen Gopin has tens of polishers a week come to him. י"ט כסלו in binyanei hauma Etc. Etc. There was and will always be מחלוקת'ין in כלל ישראל. If it is לשם שמים then אלו ואלו. Nevertheless there is one derech that is the way Yidden are supposed to go. (And b.t.w. with Rebbe Nachman, most -almost all- of talmidei habesht strongly disagreed with him. סתם)
כבכל אדמור"י חב"ד היסוד הראשון:" ביטול היש (מתחיל מעצמו) באמיתית. היות אדמו"ר ה"ז שליחות נפשית ועיקרית, לנהלם ולעודדם בתומ"צ בכלל (מתחיל באמונת ה' שמירת השו"ע וכו') ולהראותם דוגמא חי' בזה (עד כדי מסירת נפש בפועל) ופשיטא לשלול כל פעולה שיוכלו לטעות לפרשם להיפך. לאחר זה באים חייו בתור פרטי וגם בזה יסוד שלא נוגע כלל בתפקידו הכללי והעיקרי...." "הראי' העיקרית והשוללת כל הטענות שכנגד: מכתב המוריש רשמית דשייך לאגודת חסידי חב"ד. הקס"ד אולי כתב רק לפנים (היינו טיפשות) והאומר כן זהו חילול השם הכי גדול ועד כדי כך שהאומר כן (במזיד) צריך להיות ברמ"ח ר"ל. ובסגנון אחר (ועיקר): כל התעודות רשמיות, מכתבים וכו' כותבים במפורש דשייך לאגודת חסידי חב"ד – הטענות שכנגד הם דברים שבע"פ סתם".
before anyone freaks out remember the מאמרי חז"ל: כל החולק על רבו כאילו חולק על שמים and many others
Tonight i am busy. The continuation of how the Rebbe can be נשיא after gimmel tammuz etc etc etc will בעזה"י come motzei shabbos or sunday. (Is anyone actually interested in a answer?)
Just for the record: Several chabad Rebbe had "hagaon ha'eloki" in the description on matzeva. The FR's did not, and our Rebbe himself had once said, that his avodah was not in nigleh (the mesirus nefesh and maaseh bpoeil, chassidus in Russia).
A particular chosid (heard this from a family member of his), who wasn't fully comfortable with Chabad, once expressed in yechidus some taynos he had. He said the FR didn't have nigleh. The Rebbe then randomly took a bichel of the FR's chassidus off the shelf and opened it, showing this fellow some chidushim in nigleh therein. (I'm not sure if it was 5708, where he's choiker a whole inyan in basar bchalav in middle of maamar. But I heard there's several such instances). And the Rebbe fihred is, that it just wasn't his inyan.
Now my 2 cents: The TzTz for example in his time, it was nogeia tzu veizn nigleh, against the maskilim and to have the Torah velt's "front" united.
The Rebbe's matzeva indeed has those words added in, as by his predecessors, and as concluded by ziknei hachassidim to do so, and as was apparent in his hanhoga.
I pity your soul. You are demonstratably far from the basic chasid the baal hatanya writes about. You are lucky if you can live up to the tolerance of Vorka און גאט נישט דערצערין. וכו' וכו
44 comments:
I see the naysayers saying that some chabadnik infiltrated the place (Zevil) and bamboozled in the Chabad Pr.
Nah, they would have written it on shlita if it was paid pr
mesirus nefesh in russia makes you the gadol hador?
The Zviller also said in the same book you quote that Stalin merited to beat H in WW2 because he closed down thousands of Russian orthodox xhurches tumahs!
Nu, he was מלמד זכות on stalin to help the cursed Germans meet defeat. מה רעש?
shocking
but he closed shuls too at the same time?
Time to start crawling out from under your rocks guys. Have you all never heard of R Shlomke?
Uchsil loi yovin
That's just shows that he was a koshere goy :)
Anonymous Shmeryl Tzeitelbeitel
Yes it does-on the scale he did it.
Besides the fact that Rogachover said on RAYATZ that when he sais krias shma al hamito he is mabit m'sof oilom ad soifoi.
I heard it from Rogachover's hoisbocher(Reb Rafoel Nimoitin) who heard it from Rogachover himself.
Cute.
When the Rebbe says something........ He's נוגע בדבר!! וכו וכו
But when some other tzadik says it (with all due respect to Reb Sholomke and all other tzadikim) then it becomes official....
Have you people ever seen the מענה from the Rebbe explaining the ענין of a Chabad Rebbe and why lying etc would be היפך הענין לגמרי?
Anonymous Shmeryl Tzeitelbeitel said...
mesirus nefesh in russia makes you the gadol hador?
A נשיא means you care about every single yid. Like the first נשיא Moshe Rabbeinu. Sitting and learning in your room for 75 years is amazing and even more than amazing, but it doesnt make you a נשיא or even a מנהיג בישראל (even if you pasken dinim for a hour a day). Caring about yidden -even ones which you need מס"נ to get to- is something that a נשיא does. (Obviously you must be a תלמיד חכם and שלא כדעת הבעלי ריב the FR was a ת"ח "also" in נגלה. He just didnt feel a need to publicize it.
וד"ל
Very interesting, new to the scene. Perhaps you can answer me. Who is the Nossi of our generation? תשע"ד לפ"ק
Evidently not every dor needs a Lubavitcher rebbe, as ours doesn't have one. Does every dor have a Nossi? Are the two intertwined or separate issues?
Shmeryl Tzeitelbeitel, shoite ainer!!! he said that he had a gilui min hashomaim that the rayatz is the gadol hador because of his mesirus nefesh it wasnt his own hergesh you have a issue with what makes the aibishter consider someone gadol hador
Not a Harry said...
Very interesting, new to the scene. Perhaps you can answer me. Who is the Nossi of our generation? תשע"ד לפ"ק
שוטה!!!!!
You have any idea in these ענינם??
Learn what the Rebbe himself said. Yes, the Rebbe is still נשיא after ג' תמוז! (Like it says by shimshon - 20 years בחייו and 20 after).
The ענין of a משה רבינו - a נשיא is להשפיע דעת באלוקות. (Part of that is אהבת ישראל בתחלית. Long long subject. Too long for a comment) Last time I checked since the Alter Rebbe's times that was done - through גילוי אור החסידות, by Lubavitcher Rebbeim.
If you cannot understand what's the שייכות you will show you have never tasted אור החסידות כלל וכלל.
Oh, and by the way, in Moshe Rabbeinu's times, some people saw a coffin and decided they need a new Rebbe. וד"ל (It was nishtalshel from there to אלה אלהיך ישראל)
Don't play with fire.......
Please don't nitpick on my words. I am not a tzfati. Nevertheless there is a lesson to be learnt from that event.....
וד"ל
"שוטה!!!!!
You have any idea in these ענינם??
Learn what the Rebbe himself said. Yes, the Rebbe is still נשיא after ג' תמוז! (Like it says by shimshon - 20 years בחייו and 20 after).
The ענין of a משה רבינו - a נשיא is להשפיע דעת באלוקות. (Part of that is אהבת ישראל בתחלית. Long long subject. Too long for a comment) Last time I checked since the Alter Rebbe's times that was done - through גילוי אור החסידות, by Lubavitcher Rebbeim.
If you cannot understand what's the שייכות you will show you have never tasted אור החסידות כלל וכלל."
what what what? - you cant do that. you are basicaly saying "you must either buy into my logic [sic] or else there is something inherently wrong with you. a typical meshichist argument. or lack there of. thats a big fallacy if there ever was one.
try again.
New to the scene. Calm down.
Born in 1995, heard plenty about moshiach and Nossi hador. I'd like to be a chasid of the baal hatanya or reb shmelka of nikolsberg. Any reason they can't be my nossi hador or rebbe? What's the difference, simple coherent language please.
No other דרכים in תורת הבעל שם טוב are legitimate?
What is
גילוי אור החסידות?
I thought that was done already in mezbuzh by the Holy Baal Shem?
If the Rebbe is admittedly in gan eden, who is doing it here and now? לשיטתך it's twenty years.
Spreading ahavas yisroel and chasides is what Rav Moshe Weinberger is doing. Is he your nossi?
Paylishe
"No other דרכים in תורת הבעל שם טוב are legitimate?"
You can not be a Chosid of the Baal Shem Tov if you never learned Tanya with the biurim of the rebbe. If after you learned the above you still choose to be affiliated with Belz or Viznitz you can be there. But there is no question that for instance being a chosid in Belz by learning Tur Bies Yossef and Belzer Torahs, you have not touched the Klamke of the Besht.
You consider the Rebbe as the exclusive Means of learning Tanya? Rather preposterous. How did people learn Tanya until The Lubavitcher Rebbe came on to the scene? We've been learning it wrong for 150 years?
Are you comparing both coffins?
Belzer Torah is no shayches to toras habesht? What is it?
Rashi
Beautiful derush especially of the 3rd rebbe
Paylishe
"You consider the Rebbe as the exclusive Means of learning Tanya? Rather preposterous. How did people learn Tanya until The Lubavitcher Rebbe came on to the scene"
How did people learn gemora before Rashi?
rashi
"Are you comparing both coffins? "
call the Chevra Kadishe, they would know the difference
Sorry for the rant, was tired last night.
To address the issues:
First we must realize that the ענין of נשיא הדור is not a simple ענין to be decided by anyone. We must look into what the Rebbe said and wrote. (Again to say the Rebbe was lying or exaggerating would be saying he was ח"ו a faker and not a Chabad Rebbe, because ענינים כאלה are היפך בתחלית of a Chabad Rebbe. -see the מענה I will bring in a later comment-)
In very very short and without most of the details, the Rebbe explains in ואתה תצוה that the inyon of a נשיא is to be משפיע דעת באלוקות.
In משה רבינו's time it was done in one way, in מרדכי's time it was done in a different way וכו. The בעש"ט started חסידות הכללי which was the דרך for that דור. The Alter Rebbe revealed חסידות חב"ד which was the next step.
-With regards to the question about the other דרכים, there was a similar מצב at all times of yiddishkeit. The תנאים and אמוראים had different דרכים in עבודת ה. Even though אלו ואלו דברי אלוקים חיים, there is always one main דרך that is what all yidden are supposed to follow, in this case LEARNING חסידות חב"ד (not necessarily being a lubavitcher but learning)
In our דור, it was done by the Rebbe.
לא נשלם הענין
more to come later......
Sorry for the rant, was tired last night.
To address the issues:
First we must realize that the ענין of נשיא הדור is not a simple ענין to be decided by anyone. We must look into what the Rebbe said and wrote. (Again to say the Rebbe was lying or exaggerating would be saying he was ח"ו a faker and not a Chabad Rebbe, because ענינים כאלה are היפך בתכלית of a Chabad Rebbe. - see the מענה I will bring in a later comment -)
In very very short and without most of the details, the Rebbe explains in ואתה תצוה that the inyon of a נשיא is to be משפיע דעת באלקות.
In משה רבינו's time it was done in one way, in מרדכי's time it was done in a different way וכו. The בעש"ט started חסידות הכללי which was the דרך for that דור. The Alter Rebbe revealed חסידות חב"ד which was the next step.
-With regards to the question about the other דרכים, there was a similar מצב at all times of yiddishkeit. The תנאים and אמוראים had different דרכים in עבודת ה. Even though אלו ואלו דברי אלוקים חיים, there is always one main דרך that is what all yidden are supposed to follow, in this case LEARNING חסידות חב"ד (not necessarily being a lubavitcher but learning)
In our דור, it was done by the Rebbe.
לא נשלם הענין
more to come later......
I think some of these new people commenting here are insane.
you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc.
So one can only know the Besht through tanya? how do you explain that rebbe nachman who grew up in the house of the Besht said such things? (fyi he was friends with the baal hatanya).
Until my parents dor it was the Rebbe. I'm 18, who is doing it now? Who is doing it until moshiach comes?
Yanover
"you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc. "
Does Reb Nacman claim to be the real student of the Besht? I am not sure, he said he is much much much much bigger
Yanover
"you do know that rbbe nachman, the Baal Shem Tov's grandson, said that the Baal HaTanya was flat out wrong on numerous points in his tanya, that conflict with the teachings of the baal shem tov, and the toldos etc. "
B.t.w. before the רמב"ם there were אמת'ער גדולי ישראל who held that G-d has some sort of גוף. If you don't believe me look in the ראב"ד על אתר. But now after the Rambam was מגלה that, you will be hard pressed to find a orthodox rabbi who won't call you a כופר if you say so.
[and בית שמאי said בית הלל was straight out wrong - אלו ואלו וכו- but...]
After the Baal Hatanya was מגלה to us חסידות חב"ד that is the derech for all yidden. See what is happening in the world. Thousands of people are turning to חסידות חב"ד. Zalmen Gopin has tens of polishers a week come to him. י"ט כסלו in binyanei hauma Etc. Etc.
There was and will always be מחלוקת'ין in כלל ישראל. If it is לשם שמים then אלו ואלו. Nevertheless there is one derech that is the way Yidden are supposed to go.
(And b.t.w. with Rebbe Nachman, most -almost all- of talmidei habesht strongly disagreed with him. סתם)
מענה ק' מכ"ק אדמו"ר זי"ע
בערך תשמ"ו
כבכל אדמור"י חב"ד היסוד הראשון:" ביטול היש (מתחיל מעצמו) באמיתית. היות אדמו"ר ה"ז שליחות נפשית ועיקרית, לנהלם ולעודדם בתומ"צ בכלל (מתחיל באמונת ה' שמירת השו"ע וכו') ולהראותם דוגמא חי' בזה (עד כדי מסירת נפש בפועל) ופשיטא לשלול כל פעולה שיוכלו לטעות לפרשם להיפך. לאחר זה באים חייו בתור פרטי וגם בזה יסוד שלא נוגע כלל בתפקידו הכללי והעיקרי...."
"הראי' העיקרית והשוללת כל הטענות שכנגד: מכתב המוריש רשמית דשייך לאגודת חסידי חב"ד. הקס"ד אולי כתב רק לפנים (היינו טיפשות) והאומר כן זהו חילול השם הכי גדול ועד כדי כך שהאומר כן (במזיד) צריך להיות ברמ"ח ר"ל. ובסגנון אחר (ועיקר): כל התעודות רשמיות, מכתבים וכו' כותבים במפורש דשייך לאגודת חסידי חב"ד – הטענות שכנגד הם דברים שבע"פ סתם".
before anyone freaks out remember the מאמרי חז"ל:
כל החולק על רבו כאילו חולק על שמים
and many others
Tonight i am busy. The continuation of how the Rebbe can be נשיא after gimmel tammuz etc etc etc will בעזה"י come motzei shabbos or sunday.
(Is anyone actually interested in a answer?)
Yanover... I have read all breslov seforim and havn't seen this quote... Please bring source
Just for the record: Several chabad Rebbe had "hagaon ha'eloki" in the description on matzeva. The FR's did not, and our Rebbe himself had once said, that his avodah was not in nigleh (the mesirus nefesh and maaseh bpoeil, chassidus in Russia).
A particular chosid (heard this from a family member of his), who wasn't fully comfortable with Chabad, once expressed in yechidus some taynos he had. He said the FR didn't have nigleh. The Rebbe then randomly took a bichel of the FR's chassidus off the shelf and opened it, showing this fellow some chidushim in nigleh therein. (I'm not sure if it was 5708, where he's choiker a whole inyan in basar bchalav in middle of maamar. But I heard there's several such instances). And the Rebbe fihred is, that it just wasn't his inyan.
Now my 2 cents: The TzTz for example in his time, it was nogeia tzu veizn nigleh, against the maskilim and to have the Torah velt's "front" united.
The Rebbe's matzeva indeed has those words added in, as by his predecessors, and as concluded by ziknei hachassidim to do so, and as was apparent in his hanhoga.
Serious questions abound. Answers are quite lacking.
Nu?
I pity your soul. You are demonstratably far from the basic chasid the baal hatanya writes about. You are lucky if you can live up to the tolerance of Vorka און גאט נישט דערצערין. וכו' וכו
Who coined the phrase נשיא הדור?
The Rebbe
New to the scene, chickened out of answering the tough questions. Must be stuck on repeat listening to the vorka song on the other post.
i am sorry i have a day occupation. will finish i have to say bkorov
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