Steinzaltz at it again???Would like to read the interview before I take a position
Are you unable to renounce them? There would be yeshivos that teach trades, as the Chortkovover made a hundred years ago, if not for the mandatory draft. Nonetheless nobody ever thought of cutting out limud hagemora before this naar. Weed does for him what lsd did for shalomi.
altz gut un fein. One thing he's not is a naar.
He is certainly not a na'ar. He recognized the Tzadik HaDor. Unlike those na'aronim in Ponovezh or Brisk or Wsmbg or Boro Park or Lakewood or Monsey ....... who didn't.
Yankels'past dir nisht
You are missing the point.Usually if a person has a problem, let's say a bad back. He buys a comfortable bed and he feels somewhat better. If he then tries to make everybody use his bed, whether their back hurts or not, whether their back pain would be alleviated by this bed or not, he is a shvantz.You, for some reason, were not happy where you were born and bred. You find happiness in Lubavitch. Fine, but Lubavitch is just a comfortable cushion for you. Nothing more. Suddenly the rules have disappeared and with zero proof everything is measured through the lens of your back pain. The Rebbe is Tzadik HaDor because that belief alleviates your back pain. Bochurim who make learning their only focus, leaving tzorkei horabim to later years when they have the background to do a real job are somehow wrong, because if they were right that would disturb your comfort. Your problems are your problems. Other Yidden may be obligated to provide you with a cushion. They do not have to be that cushion, neither can you force them to be.You are using society as a personal cushion.
"altz gut un fein. One thing he's not is a naar."You know him?I don't.I watched an interview on the chabad website torah cafe iirc of some Chabadsketeh interviewing him about the Rebbe iirc in front of an audience.While somewhat interesting I felt that an interview by a lady in front of an audience was .....something you"d only see in Chabad or maybe latter day Chabad
"The staff of Circus Tent does not necessarily endorse the views expressed in this picture" hirschel you don't necessarily endorse it?????? i do agree with you that he's not a naar but this is complete kfira!!! we teach our children gemara as a profession???? we learn gemara cuz we're meant to learn and know tora kal echod lefum shiura delaih not to be good at it
I have always had the problem of understanding how a brilliant person can be part of latter day Chabad with a lot of crazy things, like the non meshichists giving the Rebbe first hakoffeh in the hachnosas sefer torah lezecher Kedoshei Mumbai.So either being brilliant does not exclude a person from aligning themself with strange groups, or maybe the brilliance is relative or maybe shoichad is very difficult to overcome
still doesn't make him a naar
I don't see, my dear Yankel, how helping old Jews cross the street is tzorchei rabim that gets relegated to later in life.who said anything about leaving the beis medrish?
It is not about leaving the Beis HaMedrash. It is about the major focus in life.The CI used to tell bochurim who were inclined to go out and 'tu oif' for Yiddishkeit "The Chofetz Chaim sat and learnt quietly for 60 years. Then in a short period of time he managed to change a world. If he would have started younger, he would never have managed to get as far as he did in his work".Maybe he was a na'ar.
"still doesn't make him a naar"I did not say he was a naar,I questioned your assessment without knowing him.
it's not my assessment BoroParker, it's people alot smarter than me
Yankelthe Mussar movement held the same that there is too much dedicating for torah... the chazon ish writes very sharf in the non published emuna ubitochen...Stiensaltz was always a loose canon, and likes a good soundbite.
אן אלטער נער איז נאך ארגער פון א יונגע
" it's people alot smarter than me"Members of The Sanhedrin?
speaking of כל המוסיף גורע.... If you question his intellectual capacity you lose the argument, since that is beyond question. You can say that it's not Torahdik, Yeshivish, Mesorah, etc. But a naar couldn't do what he did and does.
Yankelcan you please discuss Stiensalts and stop worrying for Hirshels cushion? it is juvenile nonsense...Hirshel would give his life for one geshmake Likutie Torah and a Likut of the Rebbe ZY"A vs. all of Viznitzer varemkiet....You like Viznitz or Krechniff hold it strong for you and your kids.. but there are people that all this does not talk to them....Other Viznitzers(and hundreds of other chasidim) that I know, that were accidentally born in Viznitz household,(still in the box wearing the full garb) are Misnagdim, are laughing off Rebbe Reb Mielech and only the Gra and Nefesh Hachaim talks to them....
Yankel"The CI used to tell bochurim who were inclined to go out and 'tu oif' for Yiddishkeit "there are too many Chazon Ishes, everybody and his brother has his Chazon Ish custom made quote.Lately 1 of the Roshie yeshivas of Ponevezh had a interview, where he said that the CI send him and many bucherim to kibutzim to get out kids,There was something there about hiding the Yarmulke even..I think Hirshel posted it at the time...
HirshelI don't want this blog to start discussing whether someone is a naar or not.What made me comment on your earlier remark was when you said that he for sure is not a naar, which may be the case,though how would you know since you don't know him?Then you added that this is the opinion of "people much smarter than you".Hirshel, I feel that such remarks are extremely irritating and even foolish and i"ll explain why:the readers of the blog don't know these people, so you don't expect someone with a half decent critical sense to accept such a statement, for all you know, if i did know those "much smarter people" I would not agree at all.So, just for the sake of having a discussion try not write such red herring remarks.
Brilliance doesn't preclude stupidity. לדוגמה קלה בעלמה, מי משמוחו שליט על הלב אינו מעשן
Hirshelwhere is the link to Stiensaltz
I see that Malkiel Kotler(Rep. of US yeshive Velt) agrees with Stiensaltz, He also realized that learning too much is no good, so off to a Kletzk honeymoon he went
so, BOROPARKERhow far do I take this not to farloz zich on what people say? Can I say it, for instance, on Reb Gershon Edelstein? Reb Berl Povarski? where does it end?
fact checkerI have no link yet. sorry.
Libi uvsori - How did you arrive at the conclusion that I am a Vizhnitzer? Where did I give off that impression?I did not say that nothing is true. All I said was that something chosen for personal benefit does not become correct.You cannot give an objective reason to believe that Vizhnitz has anything to sell, EDITEDAnd Mr. Madreigas Ho'odom. I am sure you know that most of the CIs opposition to Mussar was saved for Novardhok, right? Those who went to 'tu oif'. If in some cases he made exceptions, that is the hallmark of Odom Gadol. To be able to understand nuance and not be subject to the broader opinion. הוו מתונים בדין. But in his Igros he tells someone to stop his askonus and go back to the Beis HaMedrash. And this was not an isolated incident.
"how far do I take this not to farloz zich on what people say"I"m not addressing your opinion.You have to decide if what these "much smarter" people say or think is what would help you get an idea.For people reading this blog to be convinced by anonymous "much smarter" people is a non existent argument.They don't know them, they may not think that they are smart or may think that though smart they are biased.Just a point:Nobody thinks that R'Steinzaltz does not have a very high i.q., however having a high i.q does not exclude a person from having strange ideas.As I said I don't know him, so I can't voice an opinion without reading the article.Maybe the quote is just an out of context blurb to make people buy the magazine
Wow, so you had to edit it instead of answering it. You know what? I will give you my email address and you can answer me in private.You set out to bash others for your comfort, you can take a serving yourself.
Is this so different from what Rav Heller said a while back?http://www.shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=51238
Yankel"hallmark of Odom Gadol. To be able to understand nuance and not be subject to the broader opinion. הוו מתונים בדין. But in his Igros he tells someone to stop his askonus and go back to the Beis HaMedrash. And this was not an isolated incident."your reply gives even more credence of the selective Chazon Ish
Boro Parker"Just a point:Nobody thinks that R'Steinzaltz does not have a very high i.q., however having a high i.q does not exclude a person from having strange ideas"Between your strange ideas coming from low IQ and strange ideas coming from a Ilu with a IQ. I would rather choose to listen to the Ilu with the high IQ
I see that this has hit the frimmeh websites in Israel.I must say that this interview, though I don't have the interview details, will cause a lot of flack, something he has been thru before.I wonder if there is another pshat in the talmid hamevier, for chachumim hizohari bedivreichem, or maybe they don't cover peyrek?
" I would rather choose to listen to the Ilu with the high IQ"Who is stopping you.Go ahead.You sound like one of the guys who was "taught to much gemoreh"
Ras has high iq... A myth... A hard working transalator... A prolific reader... Where are חידושים? He made many mistakes in his talmud( see rav aaron feldman's essay). His פירוש on 6 of rebbi nachman's stories is really quite good though.
In his new book on the rebbi he says they almost made reb levik the 6'th rebbi( no מקור stated. He also states the smicha from the שרידי אש was givin to every one to gain access to the berlin library.
Tziki Kedera,Of course R'Steinzaltz has a very high i.q, no question about that.He is basically self made, becoming frum as a young bochur, and publishing the whole shas,I also think he did all the work, which is quite a feat.Additionally he is very educated in secular studies.Chabadniks unfortunately don't understand that having a high i.q does not always or many times equal a real talmid chochom.It's in this new style Chabad with an extreme lack of real high caliber talmidei chachomim that academic style torah knowledge makes one a rebbe candidate.Btw, where was the essay by r'feldman printed, do u have a link?
In the eye of the storm
While googling around a bit i see that Tradition had a rebuttal by a Moshe Sober(maybe since deceased, if its the same person from a google search) of a critique by rabbi feldman in 1992.It's mashma from the crique that R'Steinsaltz was not the only writer, or at least the ENGLISH EDITION had more input and was not just a translation. A small personal story:Years ago I had to give a daf hayomy shiur for some time and did not always have enough time to prepare kahoigen, ess chatoia ani mazkir, and i tried to use Steinzaltz,maybe i did not know how to use it properly, but it was not very useful as a learning aid for a daf shiur, at the time artscroll was pretty new and had not finished the shas,iirc they had a ways to go.Bekitzer,i learned how useful the artscroll was when the baaley batim, who had it piped up all the time and really knew what they were talking about.Remember this was way before every shul had an artscroll
Boro Parker"Who is stopping you.Go ahead.You sound like one of the guys who was "taught to much gemoreh"and became rosh yeshiva in the biggest yeshiva and flying business class
Tziki KedarehI saw many mistakes in Mesivta..How much chidushai torah did Feldman write, 35 chidushim ???? in all his life since his youth...Feldman reminds me of the old Rosha Levin of Argentina who was notified of the hitalkus of Maran avi Ezri..
MadreigasYour kind are always raising your people by lowering others.Was anyone discussing Mesivta, ????If mesivta has mistakes, does it have any bearing on this discussion?STOP USING TEN DIFFERENT NAMES ALREADY!You are ruining the blog by lowering the level of discussion.
Boro Park"Anonymous boropark said...MadreigasYour kind are always raising your people by lowering others.Was anyone discussing Mesivta, ????If mesivta has mistakes, does it have any bearing on this discussion?STOP USING TEN DIFFERENT NAMES ALREADY!You are ruining the blog by lowering the level of discussion."every comment that you spewed on this blog was to lower Chabad... so whats your argument ?????that your kind is doing what....
I saw the full interview, its typical stiensaltzAll he is saying that too much Gemora in not for every one. instead they should learn halacha as rambam etc....
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