Monday, October 23, 2006

ירושלים של פעם



Sefardic Jews in the 1930's,

They were still proud of their culture and customs and of who they were.

18 comments:

A Simple Jew said...

Ok...I will bite...

And why not today?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Too ashkenazified (is that a word?)

too insecure

the truth is Rav Ovadia did do much to change that.

A Simple Jew said...

So, did Shas sell out to "The Man"?

A Simple Jew said...

So, did Shas sell out to "The Man"?

ilan said...

"the truth is Rav Ovadia did do much to change that."

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ???? ARE YOU CRAZY OR SOMETHING?
RABENU OVADIA DID A LOT TO CONSERVE THE SEPHARADIC TRADITION AL PI DIN MARAN Z"L.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Ilan

read it again, that's what I said. I said that Rav Ovadia DID much to be "Majzir Atara LeIoshna".

Entendiste?

Hirshel Tzig said...

ASJ

Shas sold out for the first couple of years, but only because they both were looking to get themselves out of the stranglehold of the Agudah. So they joined up.

oz said...

interesting to point out that in those early years, sefardi jews were viewed as superior to their ashkenazi bretheren and the 'discrimination' was in reverse.

Hirshel Tzig said...

oz

that was still the case after the British mandate and after the Aliyah of Zionists began?

Mottel said...

Many of today's Yeshivish Sefardim have had their souls sucked from them -they've taken all the Ma'alos of the Sefardim and replaced them with the chisronos of Ahskenazim

Morrocan said...

The matsav in Lubavitch is that once a sephardi enters a Lubavitcher yeshiva he can forget about minhagei avot and Sephardi nusach.Not nice.

Anonymous said...

i am a morrocan jew, and i can tell u firsthand taht we would do anything to be meshadeich with an ashkenazi and change our last names-

Anonymous said...

what a shame! i am a proud sephardi and revel in our rich heritage- your words are shocking to me- hashem yishmor!

Tunisian said...

Moroccan

you're right that Sefardim do change once they come to Lubavitch, but that's on their accord, just like a Litvisher or other Chossid would change.

Crown Hts. and many other Chabad centers do have Sefardi Minyanim where for ex. selichos is said all of Chodesh Elul, there's a Hililah for the Or Hachaim and Baba Sali etc.

Lubavitch is to be commended for creating such an environment where Moroccans and other Bnei Edot HaMizrach feel so welcome. At least Nusach Ari and Minhogei Chabad are very similar to the original. At least he doesn't start putting on Tefillin on Chol HaMoed because he became a Ben Teyreh!

Morrocan said...

Tunisian brother
I used to learn in a Lubavitcher day school and felt pressured to change my nusach and had major fights about it.Also , I have family in CH and I think there is only one sefardy shul, so much for 'promoting such an enviroment', you've got to be kidding me, bearing in mind that a very large percentage of Chabad are sefaradim.I grant you that Chabad is open to every group, but basically insist you follow their minhag.Sorry, my minagim go back much further and I don't need to be lectured to 'change'.
Btw,chol hamoed I davened in a minyan factory in Flatbush and nobody was wearing tefillin, including the ones you call 'bnei teyreh' also, even if one has a minhag to put on tefillin, don't dare put him down!It's a machloket rishonim and the Ramas p-sak is that you do put tefillin on!I read somewhere that even the greatest chasidic Rebbes davened nusach Ashkenaz in the Ramas shul in Krakau, knowing that he was the rabbi of all rabbis for bnei ashkenaz

tunisian said...

Achi HaMorokai

regarding your day school: could it be that they want all kids to pray from one siddur?

Pressure would maybe come from fellow studets, not from anyone in charge of the school.

Tefillin on Chol Hamoed is fine if you're Ashkenazi and that was your Minhag, but for a Sefaradi to put on tefillin is a CRIME! especially if he starts later in life, Rema or no Rema.

As far as the shul in Flatbush goes: I would say that they're all Hungarians who don't have the guts to become fully Yeshivish, so they stay wishy-washy their whole life. Either that or you walked in after Halel.

ilan said...

Entendi, sorry.

Mottel said...

The shluchim in Morocco and Tunis run things according to the local customs, Mendel Raskin the son of R' Leibel Raskin a"h runs a very successful Chabad House in Montreal -the whole shul is run like a Moroccan one.